Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:11:49 +0100, Unsteadyken <unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <sf5mt5$ei2$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Chris says...
>>
>>> Maybe we should do some of it?
>>>
>>
>> We do in the uK, I've been getting a Flu jab every Autumn for some years
>> now.
>> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/
>
> I've heard they can do more harm than good.

As usual you "heard" wrong. At worst the flu jab might be ineffectual
because the strain you've caught isn't one of the ones you were inoculated
against.

Unsteadyken <unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <sf5mt5$ei2$1@dont-email.me>,
>
> Chris says...
>
>> Maybe we should do some of it?
>>
>
> We do in the uK, I've been getting a Flu jab every Autumn for some years
> now.
> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/

Indeed. I also meant masks and routine hand sanitation.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 20:00:53 +0100, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:11:49 +0100, Unsteadyken <unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <sf5mt5$ei2$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> Chris says...
>>>
>>>> Maybe we should do some of it?
>>>>
>>>
>>> We do in the uK, I've been getting a Flu jab every Autumn for some years
>>> now.
>>> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/
>>
>> I've heard they can do more harm than good.
>
> As usual you "heard" wrong. At worst the flu jab might be ineffectual
> because the strain you've caught isn't one of the ones you were inoculated
> against.

I have heard of many old people around here getting seriously ill (at least as bad as the flu) directly after the jab. So either the jab did it, or they caught a different flu in the hospital.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 17:54:09 +0100, Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

> On 2021-08-13 7:54 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:11:49 +0100, Unsteadyken <unsteadyken@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <sf5mt5$ei2$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> Chris says...
>>>
>>>> Maybe we should do some of it?
>>>>
>>>
>>> We do in the uK, I've been getting a Flu jab every Autumn for some years
>>> now.
>>> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/
>>
>> I've heard they can do more harm than good.
>
> Oh, really?
>
> You've "heard" that, have you?
>
> From whom?

Say who and I'll answer.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 19:18:40 +0100, Jonathan N. Little <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:

> Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-08-13 7:54 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:11:49 +0100, Unsteadyken
>>> <unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <sf5mt5$ei2$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Chris says...
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe we should do some of it?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We do in the uK, I've been getting a Flu jab every Autumn for some years
>>>> now.
>>>> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/
>>>
>>> I've heard they can do more harm than good.
>>
>> Oh, really?
>>
>> You've "heard" that, have you?
>>
>> From whom?
>
> Whoever don't matter, it most assuredly emanated from the wrong orifice.
>
> Just wish he'd stop bloviating bullshit. If he want to embrace the
> Darwin Award, so be it, just do encourage other clueless to join suit,
> because the consequences extend beyond them...

Not Darwin Award, evolution.

On Sat, 07 Aug 2021 23:49:11 +0100, Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

> On 2021-08-07 11:10 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2021 23:15:10 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Aug 5, 2021 at 11:11:56 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>> <op.07nzh6bamvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 02 Aug 2021 20:57:58 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 2, 2021 at 11:29:36 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>>> <op.07igbm03mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's another way to go through a red safely - if the person in
>>>>>> front goes
>>>>>> through on green, you can go through as it turns to red, and so can
>>>>>> hundreds
>>>>>> behind you. The other direction won't just start driving into a
>>>>>> continuous
>>>>>> line of traffic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why wait at all? Others can stop for you as well as you can stop for
>>>>> them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Answer: you follow safety laws.
>>>>
>>>> No, I follow common sense. If I can get to where I'm going without
>>>> hitting
>>>> something, I go. Doesn't matter what the lights say.
>>>
>>> Yet you stop at red lights.
>>
>> No, I take them under advisement. They stop other cars, leaving a gap
>> for me to go. But often there's a gap the lights don't know about.
>>
>>> You drive on the proper side of the road.
>>
>> That's not safety, that's efficiency.
>
> That is absolutely for safety.

Bullshit. Drive on a random side of the road, smash up car, have to buy new car. Not unsafe since you'd both jam on the brakes and survive.

>>> Stop pretending basic safety measures are unreasonable. It is absurd.
>>> Stop denying
>>> a horrid pandemic which is killing hundreds of thousands and leaving
>>> countless
>>> more harmed for life.
>>
>> A fraction of a percent. New people are being born faster than this.
>
> So by that measure, there's no need to fight any disease or ailment.
>
> Got it.

You should if the disease threatens the human race or a large amount of it. At least 10% ffs.

>>> It is deeply immature and irrational... and the fact so
>>> many people do that is why the pandemic causes so much harm. The very
>>> people
>>> whining about wearing masks and having lockdowns are the ones making
>>> those
>>> things more needed. I have precisely no sympathy for folks who think
>>> their
>>> ignorance is a reason to cause others harm, or even risk harm.
>>
>> Stop caring about others and look after yourself, things are much easier
>> that way.
>
> For a dick, yes.

For everyone. The time you spend looking after others, is then spent by others looking after you. Do your own stuff.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure that as an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> American, I would be willing to make it even easier for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to bully me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around than it already is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The UK manages without guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are "tyrannical" with that, eh?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We don't think anything of it. Nobody here except madmen have
>>>>>>>>>>>> a desire to own
>>>>>>>>>>>> a gun. People do not feel threatened and want to defend
>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves. Mainly
>>>>>>>>>>>> because of the lack of criminals with guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But you want to control people and deny them their guns, eh?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Libertarianism allows for a small amount of control - eg.
>>>>>>>>>> locking up murderers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Who pays?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A very small income tax.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What if I do not want to pay?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would be so small you wouldn't care.
>>>>>
>>>>> Add up all these small things and it adds up.
>>>>
>>>> At the moment we have thousands of things funded by the government. The
>>>> Libertarians would have two. Minimal military for defending only, and
>>>> police
>>>> for serious crimes only.
>>>
>>> So no rules of the road? No fire departments. No safety measures. A
>>> deeply
>>> immature and unworkable system.
>>
>> No, rules are not required because people can think for themselves.
>
> No. Rules are required because people don't need to figure out
> everything from first principles.

Survival really isn't that complicated.

On Sun, 08 Aug 2021 00:36:22 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 7, 2021 at 3:49:11 PM MST, "Alan Baker" wrote
> <sen2l7$gv9$4@dont-email.me>:
>
>>>>> At the moment we have thousands of things funded by the government. The
>>>>> Libertarians would have two. Minimal military for defending only, and
>>>>> police
>>>>> for serious crimes only.
>>>>
>>>> So no rules of the road? No fire departments. No safety measures. A
>>>> deeply
>>>> immature and unworkable system.
>>>
>>> No, rules are not required because people can think for themselves.
>>
>> No. Rules are required because people don't need to figure out
>> everything from first principles.
>
> Yup. Like don't harm others. Seems simple...

Exactly my point. We don't have to work that out, so we don't need the rule.

Commander Kinsey wrote:
> Bullshit.  Drive on a random side of the road, smash up car, have to buy
> new car.  Not unsafe since you'd both jam on the brakes and survive.

In what universe do you live?

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

Commander Kinsey wrote:
> Not Darwin Award, evolution.

Evolution does not accommodate the individuals, not even the species,
but just life itself. Sorry but I'd rather rely on intelligence and
society than play the evolutionary crapshoot. Just wish you would
understand that YOUR position and choice is not limited to your person.
Freedom is allowed as long as your "freedom" does not impose harm on
others. That is the main issue with communicable diseases. It is not
just about your personal freedom to be reckless and stupid if your
actions threaten others' safety any more that it is a person "freedom"
to obey the rule of no peeing in the pool.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On Aug 14, 2021 at 7:08:01 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
<op.074b7niomvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:

> On Sun, 08 Aug 2021 00:36:22 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Aug 7, 2021 at 3:49:11 PM MST, "Alan Baker" wrote
>> <sen2l7$gv9$4@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>>>>> At the moment we have thousands of things funded by the government. The
>>>>>> Libertarians would have two. Minimal military for defending only, and
>>>>>> police
>>>>>> for serious crimes only.
>>>>>
>>>>> So no rules of the road? No fire departments. No safety measures. A
>>>>> deeply
>>>>> immature and unworkable system.
>>>>
>>>> No, rules are not required because people can think for themselves.
>>>
>>> No. Rules are required because people don't need to figure out
>>> everything from first principles.
>>
>> Yup. Like don't harm others. Seems simple...
>
> Exactly my point. We don't have to work that out, so we don't need the rule.

Yet you cannot figure it out with masks. Hence rules are needed.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Aug 14, 2021 at 7:04:35 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
<op.074b1xyrmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:

> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 19:18:40 +0100, Jonathan N. Little <lws4art@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-13 7:54 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:11:49 +0100, Unsteadyken
>>>> <unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <sf5mt5$ei2$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> Chris says...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe we should do some of it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We do in the uK, I've been getting a Flu jab every Autumn for some years
>>>>> now.
>>>>> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/
>>>>
>>>> I've heard they can do more harm than good.
>>>
>>> Oh, really?
>>>
>>> You've "heard" that, have you?
>>>
>>> From whom?
>>
>> Whoever don't matter, it most assuredly emanated from the wrong orifice.
>>
>> Just wish he'd stop bloviating bullshit. If he want to embrace the
>> Darwin Award, so be it, just do encourage other clueless to join suit,
>> because the consequences extend beyond them...
>
> Not Darwin Award, evolution.

Do you understand why it's called the "Darwin Award"?

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Aug 14, 2021 at 8:52:28 AM MST, ""Jonathan N. Little"" wrote
<sf8oru$lpo$1@dont-email.me>:

> Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> Bullshit. Drive on a random side of the road, smash up car, have to buy
>> new car. Not unsafe since you'd both jam on the brakes and survive.
>
> In what universe do you live?

One where he is trying to make excuses for not doing the slightest thing to
reduce his harm to others.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 20:00:53 +0100, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:11:49 +0100, Unsteadyken <unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <sf5mt5$ei2$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Chris says...
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe we should do some of it?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We do in the uK, I've been getting a Flu jab every Autumn for some years
>>>> now.
>>>> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/
>>>
>>> I've heard they can do more harm than good.
>>
>> As usual you "heard" wrong. At worst the flu jab might be ineffectual
>> because the strain you've caught isn't one of the ones you were inoculated
>> against.
>
> I have heard of many old people around here getting seriously ill (at
> least as bad as the flu) directly after the jab. So either the jab did
> it, or they caught a different flu in the hospital.

The jab didn't do it.

Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 14, 2021 at 7:04:35 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
> <op.074b1xyrmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>
>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 19:18:40 +0100, Jonathan N. Little <lws4art@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-08-13 7:54 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:11:49 +0100, Unsteadyken
>>>>> <unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <sf5mt5$ei2$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>> Chris says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe we should do some of it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We do in the uK, I've been getting a Flu jab every Autumn for some years
>>>>>> now.
>>>>>> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/
>>>>>
>>>>> I've heard they can do more harm than good.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, really?
>>>>
>>>> You've "heard" that, have you?
>>>>
>>>> From whom?
>>>
>>> Whoever don't matter, it most assuredly emanated from the wrong orifice.
>>>
>>> Just wish he'd stop bloviating bullshit. If he want to embrace the
>>> Darwin Award, so be it, just do encourage other clueless to join suit,
>>> because the consequences extend beyond them...
>>
>> Not Darwin Award, evolution.
>
> Do you understand why it's called the "Darwin Award"?

He clearly doesn't.

On Aug 14, 2021 at 11:26:23 AM MST, "Chris" wrote
<sf91sf$249$1@dont-email.me>:

> Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 14, 2021 at 7:04:35 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>> <op.074b1xyrmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>
>>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 19:18:40 +0100, Jonathan N. Little <lws4art@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-08-13 7:54 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:11:49 +0100, Unsteadyken
>>>>>> <unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article <sf5mt5$ei2$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>> Chris says...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe we should do some of it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We do in the uK, I've been getting a Flu jab every Autumn for some years
>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've heard they can do more harm than good.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, really?
>>>>>
>>>>> You've "heard" that, have you?
>>>>>
>>>>> From whom?
>>>>
>>>> Whoever don't matter, it most assuredly emanated from the wrong orifice.
>>>>
>>>> Just wish he'd stop bloviating bullshit. If he want to embrace the
>>>> Darwin Award, so be it, just do encourage other clueless to join suit,
>>>> because the consequences extend beyond them...
>>>
>>> Not Darwin Award, evolution.
>>
>> Do you understand why it's called the "Darwin Award"?
>
> He clearly doesn't.

Yeah, I tried to be nice about it.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Aug 14, 2021 at 11:23:29 AM MST, "Chris" wrote
<sf91n1$uk1$1@dont-email.me>:

> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 20:00:53 +0100, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:11:49 +0100, Unsteadyken <unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <sf5mt5$ei2$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> Chris says...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe we should do some of it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We do in the uK, I've been getting a Flu jab every Autumn for some years
>>>>> now.
>>>>> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/
>>>>
>>>> I've heard they can do more harm than good.
>>>
>>> As usual you "heard" wrong. At worst the flu jab might be ineffectual
>>> because the strain you've caught isn't one of the ones you were inoculated
>>> against.
>>
>> I have heard of many old people around here getting seriously ill (at
>> least as bad as the flu) directly after the jab. So either the jab did
>> it, or they caught a different flu in the hospital.
>
> The jab didn't do it.

About 10% of the people in the hospital with Covid have had the vaccine. The
percentage is lower for younger people (12 and up though) than it is for
seniors. Could be because seniors tend to be less healthy (go figure) or
because they were some of the first to get the shots.

But even for them the difference is very significant.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 2021-08-14 7:03 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 20:00:53 +0100, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:11:49 +0100, Unsteadyken
>>> <unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <sf5mt5$ei2$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Chris says...
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe we should do some of it?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We do in the uK, I've been getting a Flu jab every Autumn for some
>>>> years
>>>> now.
>>>> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/
>>>
>>> I've heard they can do more harm than good.
>>
>> As usual you "heard" wrong. At worst the flu jab might be ineffectual
>> because the strain you've caught isn't one of the ones you were
>> inoculated
>> against.
>
> I have heard of many old people around here getting seriously ill (at
> least as bad as the flu) directly after the jab.  So either the jab did
> it, or they caught a different flu in the hospital.

1. You "heard" from where?

2. "Seriously ill" from a vaccine means it generated an immune response
that will shortly go away.

On 2021-08-14 7:04 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 17:54:09 +0100, Alan Baker
> <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-08-13 7:54 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:11:49 +0100, Unsteadyken <unsteadyken@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <sf5mt5$ei2$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Chris says...
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe we should do some of it?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We do in the uK, I've been getting a Flu jab every Autumn for some
>>>> years
>>>> now.
>>>> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/
>>>
>>> I've heard they can do more harm than good.
>>
>> Oh, really?
>>
>> You've "heard" that, have you?
>>
>>  From whom?
>
> Say who and I'll answer.

No... ...you won't and you and I both know it.

On 2021-08-14 7:07 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Aug 2021 23:49:11 +0100, Alan Baker
> <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-08-07 11:10 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2021 23:15:10 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Aug 5, 2021 at 11:11:56 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>> <op.07nzh6bamvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 02 Aug 2021 20:57:58 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2021 at 11:29:36 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>>>> <op.07igbm03mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's another way to go through a red safely - if the person in
>>>>>>> front goes
>>>>>>> through on green, you can go through as it turns to red, and so can
>>>>>>> hundreds
>>>>>>> behind you. The other direction won't just start driving into a
>>>>>>> continuous
>>>>>>> line of traffic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why wait at all? Others can stop for you as well as you can stop for
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Answer: you follow safety laws.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, I follow common sense. If I can get to where I'm going without
>>>>> hitting
>>>>> something, I go. Doesn't matter what the lights say.
>>>>
>>>> Yet you stop at red lights.
>>>
>>> No, I take them under advisement.  They stop other cars, leaving a gap
>>> for me to go.  But often there's a gap the lights don't know about.
>>>
>>>> You drive on the proper side of the road.
>>>
>>> That's not safety, that's efficiency.
>>
>> That is absolutely for safety.
>
> Bullshit.  Drive on a random side of the road, smash up car, have to buy
> new car.  Not unsafe since you'd both jam on the brakes and survive.

Really? In every case... ...for certain... ...you'd survive... ...and
with absolutely no serious injuries?

What about blind crests?

When I was about 9, my family was returning from a camping trip north of
Toronto when we came to a crest in the back road we're were on.
Unfortunately for us, there was another car coming the other way who was
two thirds of the way into our lane.

With the Canadian Shield (a solid rock outcropping to our right all my
step-dad could do was brake as hard as possible and steer as much to the
right as possible. With the other driver also braking hard, we still
came together hard enough to crush the front end of the other driver's
car to the point that he had severe leg injuries; broken femur, broken
pelvis (I think even a broken back).

Without a rule about driving on the right side of the road, those kinds
of accidents would happen ALL THE TIME.

>
>>>> Stop pretending basic safety measures are unreasonable. It is absurd.
>>>> Stop denying
>>>> a horrid pandemic which is killing hundreds of thousands and leaving
>>>> countless
>>>> more harmed for life.
>>>
>>> A fraction of a percent.  New people are being born faster than this.
>>
>> So by that measure, there's no need to fight any disease or ailment.
>>
>> Got it.
>
> You should if the disease threatens the human race or a large amount of
> it.  At least 10% ffs.

So then not cancer or heart disease or any other ailment.

Got it.

>
>>>> It is deeply immature and irrational... and the fact so
>>>> many people do that is why the pandemic causes so much harm. The very
>>>> people
>>>> whining about wearing masks and having lockdowns are the ones making
>>>> those
>>>> things more needed. I have precisely no sympathy for folks who think
>>>> their
>>>> ignorance is a reason to cause others harm, or even risk harm.
>>>
>>> Stop caring about others and look after yourself, things are much easier
>>> that way.
>>
>> For a dick, yes.
>
> For everyone.  The time you spend looking after others, is then spent by
> others looking after you.  Do your own stuff.

We're supposed to be better than that.

>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure that as an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> American, I would be willing to make it even easier for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to bully me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around than it already is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The UK manages without guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are "tyrannical" with that, eh?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We don't think anything of it. Nobody here except madmen have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a desire to own
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a gun.  People do not feel threatened and want to defend
>>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves. Mainly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of the lack of criminals with guns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But you want to control people and deny them their guns, eh?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Libertarianism allows for a small amount of control - eg.
>>>>>>>>>>> locking up murderers.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Who pays?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A very small income tax.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What if I do not want to pay?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It would be so small you wouldn't care.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Add up all these small things and it adds up.
>>>>>
>>>>> At the moment we have thousands of things funded by the government.
>>>>> The
>>>>> Libertarians would have two. Minimal military for defending only, and
>>>>> police
>>>>> for serious crimes only.
>>>>
>>>> So no rules of the road? No fire departments. No safety measures. A
>>>> deeply
>>>> immature and unworkable system.
>>>
>>> No, rules are not required because people can think for themselves.
>>
>> No. Rules are required because people don't need to figure out
>> everything from first principles.
>
> Survival really isn't that complicated.

Right.

You want to be free to do whatever the hell you want no matter what
risks for others it might pose.

On Aug 14, 2021 at 9:05:22 PM MST, "Alan Baker" wrote
<sfa3q2$nh2$1@dont-email.me>:

> On 2021-08-14 7:07 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 Aug 2021 23:49:11 +0100, Alan Baker
>> <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-08-07 11:10 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2021 23:15:10 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 5, 2021 at 11:11:56 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>>> <op.07nzh6bamvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 02 Aug 2021 20:57:58 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2021 at 11:29:36 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>>>>> <op.07igbm03mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here's another way to go through a red safely - if the person in
>>>>>>>> front goes
>>>>>>>> through on green, you can go through as it turns to red, and so can
>>>>>>>> hundreds
>>>>>>>> behind you. The other direction won't just start driving into a
>>>>>>>> continuous
>>>>>>>> line of traffic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why wait at all? Others can stop for you as well as you can stop for
>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Answer: you follow safety laws.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, I follow common sense. If I can get to where I'm going without
>>>>>> hitting
>>>>>> something, I go. Doesn't matter what the lights say.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yet you stop at red lights.
>>>>
>>>> No, I take them under advisement. They stop other cars, leaving a gap
>>>> for me to go. But often there's a gap the lights don't know about.
>>>>
>>>>> You drive on the proper side of the road.
>>>>
>>>> That's not safety, that's efficiency.
>>>
>>> That is absolutely for safety.
>>
>> Bullshit. Drive on a random side of the road, smash up car, have to buy
>> new car. Not unsafe since you'd both jam on the brakes and survive.
>
> Really? In every case... ...for certain... ...you'd survive... ...and
> with absolutely no serious injuries?
>
> What about blind crests?
>
> When I was about 9, my family was returning from a camping trip north of
> Toronto when we came to a crest in the back road we're were on.
> Unfortunately for us, there was another car coming the other way who was
> two thirds of the way into our lane.
>
> With the Canadian Shield (a solid rock outcropping to our right all my
> step-dad could do was brake as hard as possible and steer as much to the
> right as possible. With the other driver also braking hard, we still
> came together hard enough to crush the front end of the other driver's
> car to the point that he had severe leg injuries; broken femur, broken
> pelvis (I think even a broken back).
>
> Without a rule about driving on the right side of the road, those kinds
> of accidents would happen ALL THE TIME.

But what about my freedom? Why can't I just drive where I want and if others
do not like it they can stay home?

Yes, that is what those whining about masks and vaccines sound like. Same
argument.

....

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Sun, 08 Aug 2021 09:44:23 +0100, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 03 Aug 2021 22:12:56 +0100, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 01 Aug 2021 19:54:58 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 1, 2021 at 11:09:21 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>>> <op.07gkpvn9mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 19:24:25 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 2021 at 11:10:56 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>>>>> <op.07cvgihkmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My emotion tells me you're all worrying about something insignificant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Biggest cause of death in the world - Malaria.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2nd biggest - Kidney disease.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3rd biggest - Cancer.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 4th biggest - Coronavirus - a bad flu.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And that is with large work to reduce the harm of Covid. Imagine if we did
>>>>>>>>>>> not. Already in the US, even with our precautions, it has reduced the average
>>>>>>>>>>> life span by about 1 year. I assume it is about the same for the UK.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That does not even count the 1 in 3 survivors with long term health effects.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With a population of 7 billion, I don't give a fuck if half of them die, it
>>>>>>>>>> would make the world more sensible.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And that is why libertarianism cannot work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It would solve your "climate" problem if there was only half of us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It would help. Are you volunteering? Or do you only volunteer others?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The weakest will die, that is nature's way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Define "weakest" as you use it there.
>>>>
>>>> Unable to handle a thing so small you can't see it without a microscope.
>>>
>>> Cyanide is even smaller. Anyone dying from that is pathetic!! /s
>>
>> When everyone dies from the same thing it's not pathetic. When only some
>> die, they're pathetic.
>
> Not everyone dies from cyanide poisoning.

Presumably the dosage is important. Or are there really people more tolerant to it?

On Sun, 08 Aug 2021 10:16:00 +0100, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 Aug 2021 19:27:33 +0100, Snit <Brock.McNuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 02 Aug 2021 20:51:10 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 2, 2021 at 11:34:54 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>>> <op.07igkguhmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 01 Aug 2021 09:16:01 +0100, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Wrong as usual. The vaccines reduce transmission by 80% after the first
>>>>>>>>> dose and 90% after both.
>>>>>>>>> https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7013e3.htm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Until you get a variant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Possibly. Which is why have to do everything to stop spreading the virus
>>>>>>> and giving it the chance for new variants to arise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or just stop making a mountain out of a molehill.
>>>>>
>>>>> As you do with mask wearing. Why do you do that?
>>>>
>>>> No, I'm refusing to make a mountain out of a molehill. I won't do
>>>> something to prevent something so trivial. Just as I don't build a
>>>> nuclear fallout shelter.
>>>
>>> Your excuses for denying evidence changes nothing. You still refuse to do
>>> the smallest thing to help stem a major pandemic.
>>
>> Something that kills many times less than the population growth is not major.
>
> Given the UK's natural (births-deaths) growth rate is ~100,000 per year and
> COVID killed well over 100,000 last year it most definitely a major
> pandemic even by your ridiculous standards.
> https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/overviewoftheukpopulation/january2021#impact-of-the-coronavirus-covid-19-on-population-and-migration-statistics
>
> We won't know for sure until the formal population statistics are published
> in the next few months.

Why are you only looking at the UK?

By the way, the UK needs a drastic reduction in population. This was our chance and we blew it.

In article <sf91n1$uk1$1@dont-email.me>,
ithinkiam@gmail.com says...
>
> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 20:00:53 +0100, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:11:49 +0100, Unsteadyken <unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In article <sf5mt5$ei2$1@dont-email.me>,
> >>>> Chris says...
> >>>>
> >>>>> Maybe we should do some of it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> We do in the uK, I've been getting a Flu jab every Autumn for some years
> >>>> now.
> >>>> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/
> >>>
> >>> I've heard they can do more harm than good.
> >>
> >> As usual you "heard" wrong. At worst the flu jab might be ineffectual
> >> because the strain you've caught isn't one of the ones you were inoculated
> >> against.
> >
> > I have heard of many old people around here getting seriously ill (at
> > least as bad as the flu) directly after the jab. So either the jab did
> > it, or they caught a different flu in the hospital.
>
> The jab didn't do it.

I'm 84 years old and have had both shots with no problems
afterward.

Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 14, 2021 at 11:23:29 AM MST, "Chris" wrote
> <sf91n1$uk1$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 20:00:53 +0100, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:11:49 +0100, Unsteadyken <unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <sf5mt5$ei2$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>> Chris says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe we should do some of it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We do in the uK, I've been getting a Flu jab every Autumn for some years
>>>>>> now.
>>>>>> https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/
>>>>>
>>>>> I've heard they can do more harm than good.
>>>>
>>>> As usual you "heard" wrong. At worst the flu jab might be ineffectual
>>>> because the strain you've caught isn't one of the ones you were inoculated
>>>> against.
>>>
>>> I have heard of many old people around here getting seriously ill (at
>>> least as bad as the flu) directly after the jab. So either the jab did
>>> it, or they caught a different flu in the hospital.
>>
>> The jab didn't do it.
>
> About 10% of the people in the hospital with Covid have had the vaccine.

Where?

> The
> percentage is lower for younger people (12 and up though) than it is for
> seniors. Could be because seniors tend to be less healthy (go figure) or
> because they were some of the first to get the shots.

There are many possible reasons.

> But even for them the difference is very significant.
>

Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Aug 2021 09:44:23 +0100, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 03 Aug 2021 22:12:56 +0100, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 01 Aug 2021 19:54:58 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 1, 2021 at 11:09:21 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>>>> <op.07gkpvn9mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 19:24:25 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 2021 at 11:10:56 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>>>>>> <op.07cvgihkmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My emotion tells me you're all worrying about something insignificant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biggest cause of death in the world - Malaria.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2nd biggest - Kidney disease.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3rd biggest - Cancer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4th biggest - Coronavirus - a bad flu.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And that is with large work to reduce the harm of Covid. Imagine if we did
>>>>>>>>>>>> not. Already in the US, even with our precautions, it has reduced the average
>>>>>>>>>>>> life span by about 1 year. I assume it is about the same for the UK.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That does not even count the 1 in 3 survivors with long term health effects.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> With a population of 7 billion, I don't give a fuck if half of them die, it
>>>>>>>>>>> would make the world more sensible.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And that is why libertarianism cannot work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It would solve your "climate" problem if there was only half of us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It would help. Are you volunteering? Or do you only volunteer others?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The weakest will die, that is nature's way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Define "weakest" as you use it there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unable to handle a thing so small you can't see it without a microscope.
>>>>
>>>> Cyanide is even smaller. Anyone dying from that is pathetic!! /s
>>>
>>> When everyone dies from the same thing it's not pathetic. When only some
>>> die, they're pathetic.
>>
>> Not everyone dies from cyanide poisoning.
>
> Presumably the dosage is important. Or are there really people more tolerant to it?

There almost no absolutes in biology. Read up on LD50.