On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 20:18:50 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jul 21, 2021 at 9:52:52 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
> <op.06v3uejzmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>
>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:53:50 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Jul 20, 2021 at 9:36:39 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>> <op.06t8fdosmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:50:00 +0100, David Brooks <DavidB@nomail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 20/07/2021 16:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> Why do laptops take air from underneath which won't work on your lap?
>>>>>> It should come in one side and out the other.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Apple M1 MacBook Air which, I bought for Mrs B., does even have a
>>>>> fan! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/
>>>>
>>>> Unless they're worked out how to break the laws of physics, for a powerful
>>>> laptop you need to get a lot of heat out of it, so I take it that's a very
>>>> slow laptop?
>>>
>>> Nope. It is a very cool CPU.
>>>
>>> https://www.tomsguide.com/news/macbook-air-m1-benchmarks-revealed-and-they-destroy-windows-laptops
>>>
>>> Of course real world comparisons will not perfectly match benchmarks, and
>>> there is more to speed than CPU... but overall the M1 chips are amazingly fast
>>> for the tiny amounts of power they consume compared to Intel chips.
>>
>> I'm sure there's a similar chip for a normal computer. There's no way someone
>> has suddenly made them much more efficient, this is a gradual process that's
>> been going on for decades.
>
> Apple has been working on their own chips for a long time -- for the iPhone
> and iPads and others. There are other ARM chips and MS has a version of
> Windows that runs on them, it sucks.
>
> https://youtu.be/OhESSZIXvCA
>
> The M1 crushes the competition, at least for now.

"For now" won't be long. Chip manufacturers are big and powerful, they'll all come up with similar designs. Only technology limits how far they can go.

On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 20:19:30 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jul 21, 2021 at 9:51:58 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
> <op.06v3swrbmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>
>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:49:37 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Jul 20, 2021 at 9:36:52 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>> <op.06t8fqy1mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:32:09 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 20, 2021 at 8:42:30 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>>> <op.06t5w4hhmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do laptops take air from underneath which won't work on your lap? It
>>>>>> should come in one side and out the other.
>>>>>
>>>>> Convection cooling.
>>>>
>>>> No, it's forced by the fan.
>>>
>>> They make use of the convection cooling as well. This means the fan can be
>>> smaller and less noisy.
>>
>> Bollocks, the fan makes no detectable noise when spinning at minimum speed.
>
> It can run at lower speeds because of the making use of convection cooling.

Once it's spinning, convection cannot occur. The air is moving faster than convection.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 00:06:11 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jul 21, 2021 at 9:47:06 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
> <op.06v3ks1emvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>
>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:48:19 +0100, David Brooks <DavidB@nomail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 20/07/2021 17:36, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:50:00 +0100, David Brooks <DavidB@nomail.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 20/07/2021 16:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> Why do laptops take air from underneath which won't work on your lap?
>>>>>> It should come in one side and out the other.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Apple M1 MacBook Air which, I bought for Mrs B., does even have a
>>>>> fan! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/
>>>>
>>>> Unless they're worked out how to break the laws of physics, for a
>>>> powerful laptop you need to get a lot of heat out of it, so I take it
>>>> that's a very slow laptop?
>>>
>>> You really do need to keep your finger on the pulse, m8! ;-)
>>>
>>> Read here:- https://www.tomsguide.com/uk/reviews/macbook-air-2020-m1
>>
>> No, you tell me. It's either powerful or cool, not both. If they claim both,
>> it probably thermally throttles if you work it hard for more than several
>> seconds.
>
> It rarely gets throttled in general use... but it can be if you work it hard
> for a few minutes (say a video render).

That's enough for me to stop reading and never buy one. Like buying a 150mph car that can only do so for short bursts, it's a damn lie.

On Jul 22, 2021 at 8:51:12 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
<op.06xvnmfgmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:

> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 00:06:11 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jul 21, 2021 at 9:47:06 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>> <op.06v3ks1emvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>
>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:48:19 +0100, David Brooks <DavidB@nomail.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 20/07/2021 17:36, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:50:00 +0100, David Brooks <DavidB@nomail.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 20/07/2021 16:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>> Why do laptops take air from underneath which won't work on your lap?
>>>>>>> It should come in one side and out the other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Apple M1 MacBook Air which, I bought for Mrs B., does even have a
>>>>>> fan! ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless they're worked out how to break the laws of physics, for a
>>>>> powerful laptop you need to get a lot of heat out of it, so I take it
>>>>> that's a very slow laptop?
>>>>
>>>> You really do need to keep your finger on the pulse, m8! ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Read here:- https://www.tomsguide.com/uk/reviews/macbook-air-2020-m1
>>>
>>> No, you tell me. It's either powerful or cool, not both. If they claim both,
>>> it probably thermally throttles if you work it hard for more than several
>>> seconds.
>>
>> It rarely gets throttled in general use... but it can be if you work it hard
>> for a few minutes (say a video render).
>
> That's enough for me to stop reading and never buy one. Like buying a 150mph
> car that can only do so for short bursts, it's a damn lie.

They are very clear it has no fan. There is no lie. But if you don't want one
don't get one.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Jul 22, 2021 at 8:50:29 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
<op.06xvmfwmmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:

> On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 20:19:30 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jul 21, 2021 at 9:51:58 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>> <op.06v3swrbmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>
>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:49:37 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jul 20, 2021 at 9:36:52 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>> <op.06t8fqy1mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:32:09 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2021 at 8:42:30 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>>>> <op.06t5w4hhmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why do laptops take air from underneath which won't work on your lap? It
>>>>>>> should come in one side and out the other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Convection cooling.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it's forced by the fan.
>>>>
>>>> They make use of the convection cooling as well. This means the fan can be
>>>> smaller and less noisy.
>>>
>>> Bollocks, the fan makes no detectable noise when spinning at minimum speed.
>>
>> It can run at lower speeds because of the making use of convection cooling.
>
> Once it's spinning, convection cannot occur. The air is moving faster than
> convection.

One force does not stop when another starts, and presumably the fan is not
running all the time.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Jul 22, 2021 at 8:49:35 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
<op.06xvkxfymvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:

> On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 20:18:50 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jul 21, 2021 at 9:52:52 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>> <op.06v3uejzmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>
>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:53:50 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jul 20, 2021 at 9:36:39 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>> <op.06t8fdosmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:50:00 +0100, David Brooks <DavidB@nomail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 20/07/2021 16:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>> Why do laptops take air from underneath which won't work on your lap?
>>>>>>> It should come in one side and out the other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Apple M1 MacBook Air which, I bought for Mrs B., does even have a
>>>>>> fan! ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless they're worked out how to break the laws of physics, for a powerful
>>>>> laptop you need to get a lot of heat out of it, so I take it that's a very
>>>>> slow laptop?
>>>>
>>>> Nope. It is a very cool CPU.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.tomsguide.com/news/macbook-air-m1-benchmarks-revealed-and-they-destroy-windows-laptops
>>>>
>>>> Of course real world comparisons will not perfectly match benchmarks, and
>>>> there is more to speed than CPU... but overall the M1 chips are amazingly fast
>>>> for the tiny amounts of power they consume compared to Intel chips.
>>>
>>> I'm sure there's a similar chip for a normal computer. There's no way someone
>>> has suddenly made them much more efficient, this is a gradual process that's
>>> been going on for decades.
>>
>> Apple has been working on their own chips for a long time -- for the iPhone
>> and iPads and others. There are other ARM chips and MS has a version of
>> Windows that runs on them, it sucks.
>>
>> https://youtu.be/OhESSZIXvCA
>>
>> The M1 crushes the competition, at least for now.
>
> "For now" won't be long.

Maybe. Apple is already using 5nm. Intel says they will get down to 7nm
sometimes in 2022 or 2023, and they have a history of not meeting their own
deadlines. AMD says sometimes in 2022. No doubt, though, this has pushed it as
a priority for them.

> Chip manufacturers are big and powerful, they'll all come up with similar
> designs. Only technology limits how far they can go.

One of the challenges for MS is they do not make the chip and the OS. Apple
can make both with the other in mind, so they take better advantage of their
own hardware than MS can take of other's hardware (though as big as they are I
am sure Intel and AMD dance to their tune to a large extent).

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Jul 22, 2021 at 8:48:29 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
<op.06xvi316mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:

> On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 20:38:14 +0100, Prescott Parasite Tracker v1.2
> <putthesobsnittowork@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:hm_JI.28790$qk6.8957@fx36.iad:
>>
>>> On Jul 21, 2021 at 9:59:24 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>> <op.06v35ah9mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 20:29:21 +0100, Wade Garrett
>>>> <wade@cooler.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/20/21 3:25 PM, LegionX wrote:
>>>>>> Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> Wrote in message:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For years, I've used a piece of quarter inch Masonite cut to
>>>>>>> the exact size of my laptop when forced to rest the device on
>>>>>>> a soft surface. Works great, weighs next to nothing, just
>>>>>>> about free.<> That's a well thought out genius life hack
>>>>>>> before the phrase was
>>>>>> coined. Kudos to you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I keep several of them around the house in locations where I
>>>>>>> use my laptop.<> We're going to make a few of these ourselves
>>>>>>> now. Thanks again for
>>>>>> the seriously good idea!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why is it that the people who want more government control
>>>>>>> over your life are the same ones who want you to be
>>>>>>> disarmed?<> That's a rhetorical question yea?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Regretfully not!
>>>>
>>>> The answer is because they're the same thing. The government
>>>> can't control people who can defend themselves.
>>>>
>>>> The question should be, why the fuck would anyone want government
>>>> control?
>>>
>>> I just want a government that has more fair and equal
>>> representation.
>>
>> I just want a government who prosecutes undeserving people taking
>> advantage of the system and in effect taking government assistance
>> from those who truly deserve and need it.
>
> Easy way to do that, don't have benefits form the government. Benefits should
> be charity based. All these people voting left wing would surely donate?
>
>> These grifters and welface cheats should be prosecuted to the fullest
>> extent of the law and forced to make restition on every penny they
>> scammed the government out of.
>
> Make them work naked outdoors.
>
>> And it's going to begin as Biden is spending money the government
>> doesn't have. The IRS is already gearing up to begin massive audits
>> targeting suspected tax cheats.
>>
>> Get ready for neighbor to turn on neighbor.
>> It's happening already.
>
> That's why you neanderthals still have guns.

Who is going to pay the government to stop people from having guns? You?

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Jul 22, 2021 at 8:46:50 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
<op.06xvgchrmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:

> On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 20:13:44 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jul 21, 2021 at 10:03:30 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>> <op.06v4b4ghmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>
>>> On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 01:20:25 +0100, Rabid Roach <rabid@roa.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2021-07-20 7:27 p.m., Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-07-20 5:47 p.m., Rabid Roach wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-07-20 12:36 p.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:50:00 +0100, David Brooks
>>>>>>> <DavidB@nomail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 20/07/2021 16:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Why do laptops take air from underneath which won't work on your lap?
>>>>>>>>> It should come in one side and out the other.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Apple M1 MacBook Air which, I bought for Mrs B., does even have a
>>>>>>>> fan! ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unless they're worked out how to break the laws of physics, for a
>>>>>>> powerful laptop you need to get a lot of heat out of it, so I take it
>>>>>>> that's a very slow laptop?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It actually has the most powerful and power-efficient mobile processor
>>>>>> on the market. It truly is a marvel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They wasn't so bad i guess till they got run over by an M1A1. :-)
>>>>
>>>> I probably would have bought one when I was in the market for a laptop
>>>> at the beginning of last month, if gaming weren't something I was even
>>>> slightly interesting to me. In the end, it made more sense to get a
>>>> mobile gaming laptop (which is more or less of the same size as the
>>>> Macbook Pro) with a discrete GPU. This way, I have more than enough
>>>> power to run all applications and games AND access to the largest
>>>> library the world has ever seen.
>>>
>>> So the Mac mentioned above has no GPU?
>>
>> It does -- but it is an integrated one.
>>
>>> No wonder it doesn't need a fan. Not really a computer without graphics.
>>
>> It has graphics... and in real world use it works very well.
>>
>> https://youtu.be/MtLIE74nl-0
>
> No, integrated graphics is a compromise. It'll manage a powerpoint
> presentation....

Of course it is a compromise -- the world is full of them. With the Macbook
Air it is designed to be lightweight and have a long battery life, and while
it fits a lot of needs it is not a gaming machine. But it absolutely does have
a GPU.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Jul 22, 2021 at 8:46:22 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
<op.06xvfkcdmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:

>>>> Nope. It is a very cool CPU.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.tomsguide.com/news/macbook-air-m1-benchmarks-revealed-and-they-destroy-windows-laptops
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course real world comparisons will not perfectly match benchmarks, and
>>>> there is more to speed than CPU... but overall the M1 chips are
>>>> amazingly fast
>>>> for the tiny amounts of power they consume compared to Intel chips.
>>>
>>> I'm sure there's a similar chip for a normal computer. There's no way
>>> someone has suddenly made them much more efficient, this is a gradual
>>> process that's been going on for decades.
>>
>> Nope!
>>
>> Apple *HAS* made them - *NEW* M1 chips.
>>
>> https://www.macrumors.com/guide/m1/
>
> Yeah like Intel and AMD are incapable of that.

At least for now that is correct.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Jul 22, 2021 at 7:09:56 AM MST, "Paul" wrote <sdbu7k$cje$1@dont-email.me>:

> Snit wrote:
>> On Jul 21, 2021 at 11:58:47 PM MST, "Alan Baker" wrote
>> <sdb4v8$6aj$2@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>> On 2021-07-20 9:36 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:50:00 +0100, David Brooks <DavidB@nomail.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 20/07/2021 16:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> Why do laptops take air from underneath which won't work on your lap?
>>>>>> It should come in one side and out the other.
>>>>> The Apple M1 MacBook Air which, I bought for Mrs B., does even have a
>>>>> fan! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/
>>>> Unless they're worked out how to break the laws of physics, for a
>>>> powerful laptop you need to get a lot of heat out of it, so I take it
>>>> that's a very slow laptop?
>>> You are mistaken
>>
>> While not magic, it is a pretty big leap... of the type I am not sure most
>> people expected to see again. Things had slowed down for some time, now they
>> seem like they are about to get interesting again.
>>
>
> It's definitely not magic.
>
> And it's not an interesting time either.

You might not be interested in the lower power needs, faster speeds, smaller
processing (5nm), and quietness of modern machines, but I do.

> Now, put on your "hard thinking caps" for a moment.
>
> Do you remember your 1MHz processor, and what it could do ?
> I had one at work, which was "memory synchronous", which
> means for each CPU clock cycle, you could transfer an item
> on the bus, to memory. Memory back then was SRAM. This means,
> by some measure, the memory bus is "100% efficient".

And you could not connect and use the Internet well, if at all, nor would the
software of hardware handle anything other than a tiny fraction of what it can
handle today.

> OK, now take your 3GHz processor and test it. Can you
> transfer 3 billion "items" to memory in a second. No,
> you can not.
>
> Memory access speed has not kept pace with CPU progress.

Are you thinking someone said it did?

With the M1, though, the memory is on the same chip as the CPU. Where this has
clear downsides in terms of expandability, it does speed memory access.

> We hide some of the agony with L1/L2/L3 cache, but
> it is still not enough. At some point, you need to
> access wide patches of DRAM, and you access the DRAM
> in random order (7ZIP compressor, dictionary access, many
> threads, many dictionaries).
>
> The end result is, a 3GHz processor is not 3000 times faster
> than a 1MHz processor.

Again, did someone say it was? Not sure what you are responding to.

> It's some smaller factor. And
> a 5GHz processor is not 5000 times faster than a 1MHz
> processor.

Did you think it would be?

> Processors still talk to DRAM. DRAM still has slow
> transaction rates (a transaction typically being
> a cache line on the CPU).
>
> "Progress", would be using some of that sweet
> sync SRAM that costs $500 *per chip*. Is that
> going to happen ? Of course not.
>
> There must be order in the universe.
>
> And punters must be fed small incremental
> improvements in things, for fear of
> upsetting the notion of a "precious"
> ecosystem. We need a 200MHz faster processor,
> to cost $1000 more than the other processor.
>
> So really, nothing has changed.

Yes, there was change. Apple went from Intel to their own CPUs, and their
machines that use them are very fast and have features the Intel computers do
not (the neural engine provides for that), and more.

> Sure, algorithms which run in-cache, and have
> a small footprint, those go like snot. Maybe
> you're mining bitcoins 20% faster on your
> "obsolete for bitcoin mining" platform. What
> an accomplishment... :-/

I have no clue on how the M1 handle bit coin mining.

> The whole thing has been self-deception now,
> for maybe 12-15 years.
>
> At first, when we went from a 300Mhz Celeron
> to 1400MHz Tualatin, there was some reason for
> celebration. Did you know that the transfer speed
> of your SATA SSD today, is *faster* than the speed
> of the *main memory* on the 300MHz Celeron computer ?
> That's how awful DRAM main memory was back then.
>
> And things haven't really changed all that much,
> relatively speaking.
>
> One of the bestest deceptions ?
>
> It's the clock speed they put on your DRAM.
>
> Say someone tells you:
>
> "I have DDR7-8500MHz DRAM"
>
> Well, sure, a tiny tiny burst interval, transfers
> a cache line. Then, the DRAM sits there for more
> than 100 clock cycles, doing sweet fuck all, until
> the next super-fast and tiny squirt of data. The clock
> speed is "irrelevant" because the access time of the
> memory is quite long. So sure, your mom bought you
> the 8500MHz memory, you wrote on USENET "Envy me!
> I have 8500MHz RAM". When in fact, the transaction
> rate (megatransfers per second) is only a fraction
> of that clock rate. A pathetic fraction.
>
> Do you remember those 50cc scooters that used
> to go "yin! yin! yin!". And had a flywheel and
> such ? Well, that's the DRAM on your computer.
> It's one of those scooters.
>
> So what did you get, with a new processor ?

A machine that is plenty fast for what it is used for, extremely quite
(silent), has a long battery life, stays cool, and has the benefits of a
neural engine (though some of that can be done on other systems).

> Well, you've learned to wait more patiently.
>
> Paul

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Jul 22, 2021 at 5:09:44 AM MST, "Rabid Roach" wrote
<dedKI.52633$dp5.10563@fx48.iad>:
....
>>
>>> The TerryFlops32 is about the same as HD 5870.
>>> The best video card you can buy, might be
>>> fifteen times as much TerryFlops32. And the Leet
>>> Floppers only count the FP64 ones (because the
>>> video card companies charge thousands for the privilege
>>> of having large amounts of those). For example, my
>>> video card has an "integer ratio" between FP32 units
>>> and FP64 units, that makes FP64ing with the thing
>>> a waste of time.
>>>
>>> There's nothing wrong with that GPU. It's like
>>> lots of other integrated graphics.
>>
>> Right. It will not compete with gaming systems but for general use it is
>> excellent. Was just using my wife's -- just to help set up calendars and the
>> like, so I did not push it in any way. But the system was speedy and cool for
>> the bit of web stuff, calendar fiddling, etc. that I did. Excellent little
>> machine.
>
> I didn't use it for long myself but decided to give it a go when I was
> at a Best Buy at some point since its release. Unlike the previous
> machines I used, which were admittedly G4 and G5 machines in addition to
> my parents' underpowered Core i5 Mac Mini, Mac OS was very snappy and a
> joy to use. I still wouldn't get the machine since gaming is a priority,
> but it was definitely the most remarkable mobile non-gaming machine I've
> laid my eyes upon. Apple is definitely doing things right in terms of
> hardware if not in terms of free speech.

Hardware and software, and to at least some extent privacy.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 22/07/2021 17.35, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 14:54:45 +0100, Stephen Wolstenholme
> <steve@easynn.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 12:32:25 -0600, KenW <ken1943@invalid.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 12:35:05 -0400, "Mayayana"
>>> <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Stephen Wolstenholme" <steve@easynn.com> wrote
>>>>
>>>> | My Samsung gets air from a side grill. I only gets a bit warm.
>>>> |
>>>>   I didn't know there was any such design. I'm always
>>>> careful to put them on a hard surface, so our laptop here
>>>> could even have side vents that I haven't noticed. (HP)
>>>>
>>>>   Awhile back a friend asked me to fix her Win8.1 laptop.
>>>> She'd been loading photos when it died and the hard disk
>>>> had to be dismantled to get the data. I imagined her
>>>> sitting up in bed, loading pictures of her kids, with the
>>>> laptop resting on a nice, fluffy blanket and cooking the
>>>> hard disk. The worst part is that there really isn't any
>>>> reason for the average person to think that might be a
>>>> problem. And I suppose in that case even side vents might
>>>> get covered.
>>>>
>>> I remember using cigarette smoke to find out how air moved. So not
>>> smoking now, I need another way to check air movement !!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> I stopped smoking! I've got a spray duster somewhere that I've used
>> check air movement. It's probably more dangerous than smoking.
>
> It is since they've banned those "ozone destroying" propellants in
> favour of highly flammable (!!!) butane gas.  I'm wondering if I'm
> risking a huge explosion when I suck a spider up with my vacuum then
> spray insecticide down the tube.

It is pretty dangerous, depending on the motor. Those I have opened are
of the type with brushes, thus with a lot of sparks.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 22/07/2021 17.51, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 00:06:11 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jul 21, 2021 at 9:47:06 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>> <op.06v3ks1emvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>
>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:48:19 +0100, David Brooks
>>> <DavidB@nomail.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 20/07/2021 17:36, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:50:00 +0100, David Brooks
>>>>> <DavidB@nomail.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 20/07/2021 16:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>> Why do laptops take air from underneath which won't work on your
>>>>>>> lap?
>>>>>>> It should come in one side and out the other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Apple M1 MacBook Air which, I bought for Mrs B., does even have a
>>>>>> fan! ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless they're worked out how to break the laws of physics, for a
>>>>> powerful laptop you need to get a lot of heat out of it, so I take it
>>>>> that's a very slow laptop?
>>>>
>>>> You really do need to keep your finger on the pulse, m8! ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Read here:-  https://www.tomsguide.com/uk/reviews/macbook-air-2020-m1
>>>
>>> No, you tell me. It's either powerful or cool, not both. If they
>>> claim both,
>>> it probably thermally throttles if you work it hard for more than
>>> several
>>> seconds.
>>
>> It rarely gets throttled in general use... but it can be if you work
>> it hard
>> for a few minutes (say a video render).
>
> That's enough for me to stop reading and never buy one.  Like buying a
> 150mph car that can only do so for short bursts, it's a damn lie.

They don't tell you.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in
news:sdbu7k$cje$1@dont-email.me:

> Snit wrote:
>> On Jul 21, 2021 at 11:58:47 PM MST, "Alan Baker" wrote
>> <sdb4v8$6aj$2@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>> On 2021-07-20 9:36 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:50:00 +0100, David Brooks
>>>> <DavidB@nomail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 20/07/2021 16:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> Why do laptops take air from underneath which won't work on
>>>>>> your lap? It should come in one side and out the other.
>>>>> The Apple M1 MacBook Air which, I bought for Mrs B., does even
>>>>> have a fan! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/
>>>> Unless they're worked out how to break the laws of physics, for
>>>> a powerful laptop you need to get a lot of heat out of it, so I
>>>> take it that's a very slow laptop?
>>> You are mistaken
>>
>> While not magic, it is a pretty big leap... of the type I am not
>> sure most people expected to see again. Things had slowed down
>> for some time, now they seem like they are about to get
>> interesting again.
>>
>
> It's definitely not magic.
>
> And it's not an interesting time either.
>
> Now, put on your "hard thinking caps" for a moment.

You have just relpied to the snit Michael Glasser troll.
This is what will happen when you reply to this parasite.
If you value alt.comp.os.windows-10 it's best to ignore snit.

"36- George Graves: "Jason. You have started an argument with
the Snit (AKA Michael Glasser), this should not be done. He
will drive you crazy with his twisted logic, his deep-rooted
need to be ALWAYS right at any cost. He will move goalposts,
set up strawmen, and bore you into submission with his endless
pedanticism. The only way to engage him is to hit and run. NEVER
engage him, it's a futile, empty procedure that will only anger
you and feed him. Take my advice and STAY AWAY!" 27 Oct 2004"
"

--
Ask Snit how he pissed on his cat and his hallucination about the
eyeball. Heavy pharma abuse = a Snit
<https://tinyurl.com/WhatIsSnit>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitliesmethods>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snit-Reviews>

On 22/07/2021 18:17, Snit wrote:
> On Jul 22, 2021 at 8:46:22 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
> <op.06xvfkcdmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>
>>>>> Nope. It is a very cool CPU.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.tomsguide.com/news/macbook-air-m1-benchmarks-revealed-and-they-destroy-windows-laptops
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course real world comparisons will not perfectly match benchmarks, and
>>>>> there is more to speed than CPU... but overall the M1 chips are
>>>>> amazingly fast
>>>>> for the tiny amounts of power they consume compared to Intel chips.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure there's a similar chip for a normal computer. There's no way
>>>> someone has suddenly made them much more efficient, this is a gradual
>>>> process that's been going on for decades.
>>>
>>> Nope!
>>>
>>> Apple *HAS* made them - *NEW* M1 chips.
>>>
>>> https://www.macrumors.com/guide/m1/
>>
>> Yeah like Intel and AMD are incapable of that.
>
> At least for now that is correct.

:-D

On Jul 22, 2021 at 12:36:12 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
<sdchbc$7dh$2@hunterbd.eternal-september.org>:

> On 22/07/2021 18:17, Snit wrote:
>> On Jul 22, 2021 at 8:46:22 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>> <op.06xvfkcdmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>
>>>>>> Nope. It is a very cool CPU.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.tomsguide.com/news/macbook-air-m1-benchmarks-revealed-and-they-destroy-windows-laptops
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course real world comparisons will not perfectly match benchmarks, and
>>>>>> there is more to speed than CPU... but overall the M1 chips are
>>>>>> amazingly fast
>>>>>> for the tiny amounts of power they consume compared to Intel chips.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure there's a similar chip for a normal computer. There's no way
>>>>> someone has suddenly made them much more efficient, this is a gradual
>>>>> process that's been going on for decades.
>>>>
>>>> Nope!
>>>>
>>>> Apple *HAS* made them - *NEW* M1 chips.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.macrumors.com/guide/m1/
>>>
>>> Yeah like Intel and AMD are incapable of that.
>>
>> At least for now that is correct.
>
> :-D

I have watched a lot of reviews on the M1 machines... almost universally they
speak very well of it, and the few that did not have followups where they say
after using it for a while they like it. It is not perfect -- more
connectivity and other issues are mentioned -- but it is a damned good
machine.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Chris wrote:
> On 21/07/2021 17:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:53:50 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Jul 20, 2021 at 9:36:39 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>> <op.06t8fdosmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:50:00 +0100, David Brooks
>>>> <DavidB@nomail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 20/07/2021 16:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> Why do laptops take air from underneath which won't work on your lap?
>>>>>> It should come in one side and out the other.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Apple M1 MacBook Air which, I bought for Mrs B., does even have a
>>>>> fan! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/
>>>>
>>>> Unless they're worked out how to break the laws of physics, for a
>>>> powerful
>>>> laptop you need to get a lot of heat out of it, so I take it that's
>>>> a very
>>>> slow laptop?
>>>
>>> Nope. It is a very cool CPU.
>>>
>>> https://www.tomsguide.com/news/macbook-air-m1-benchmarks-revealed-and-they-destroy-windows-laptops
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course real world comparisons will not perfectly match benchmarks,
>>> and
>>> there is more to speed than CPU... but overall the M1 chips are
>>> amazingly fast
>>> for the tiny amounts of power they consume compared to Intel chips.
>>
>> I'm sure there's a similar chip for a normal computer. There's no way
>> someone has suddenly made them much more efficient, this is a gradual
>> process that's been going on for decades.
>
> Nothing "sudden" about it. Apple have been designing efficient
> processors for over a decade. The step-change is that they've
> successfully applied Arm processors to the pro/consumer computing space
> from low-power mobile device space.

I suppose you already know that Intel was in the ARM market
and got out. This is from 2006, to give you some idea
how long ago that was, that they dabbled in the stuff.

https://www.theregister.com/2006/06/27/intel_sells_xscale/

It's not a question of capability. Intel has lots of
employees, it also regularly does M&A.

But what is their strategy ?

Have the legacy handcuffs been taken off ?

Is that (partially) what Windows 11 is ?
A kind of signal ?

There are many possible outcomes, but I've no idea
what ones make sense.

Paul

Snit wrote:
> On Jul 22, 2021 at 8:48:29 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote

>> That's why you neanderthals still have guns.
>
> Who is going to pay the government to stop people from having guns?
> You?

In a US city I lived in around 40 years ago the city council voted to
buy guns (all types) from the public and then destroyed them. They had
lots of takers. The program lasted for a couple of years as I recall. I
don't remember if it did any good at the time but currently the city has
the same gun problem as the rest in its size class (6M pop metro).

On Jul 22, 2021 at 8:44:44 PM MST, "AJL" wrote <sdddvd$nbn$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

> Snit wrote:
>> On Jul 22, 2021 at 8:48:29 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>
>>> That's why you neanderthals still have guns.
>>
>> Who is going to pay the government to stop people from having guns?
>> You?
>
> In a US city I lived in around 40 years ago the city council voted to
> buy guns (all types) from the public and then destroyed them. They had
> lots of takers. The program lasted for a couple of years as I recall. I
> don't remember if it did any good at the time but currently the city has
> the same gun problem as the rest in its size class (6M pop metro).

Can I ask what city?

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 10:09:56 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>Snit wrote:
>> On Jul 21, 2021 at 11:58:47 PM MST, "Alan Baker" wrote
>> <sdb4v8$6aj$2@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>> On 2021-07-20 9:36 a.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:50:00 +0100, David Brooks <DavidB@nomail.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 20/07/2021 16:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> Why do laptops take air from underneath which won't work on your lap?
>>>>>> It should come in one side and out the other.
>>>>> The Apple M1 MacBook Air which, I bought for Mrs B., does even have a
>>>>> fan! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/
>>>> Unless they're worked out how to break the laws of physics, for a
>>>> powerful laptop you need to get a lot of heat out of it, so I take it
>>>> that's a very slow laptop?
>>> You are mistaken
>>
>> While not magic, it is a pretty big leap... of the type I am not sure most
>> people expected to see again. Things had slowed down for some time, now they
>> seem like they are about to get interesting again.
>>
>
>It's definitely not magic.
>
>And it's not an interesting time either.
>
>Now, put on your "hard thinking caps" for a moment.
>
>Do you remember your 1MHz processor, and what it could do ?
>I had one at work, which was "memory synchronous", which
>means for each CPU clock cycle, you could transfer an item
>on the bus, to memory. Memory back then was SRAM. This means,
>by some measure, the memory bus is "100% efficient".
>
>OK, now take your 3GHz processor and test it. Can you
>transfer 3 billion "items" to memory in a second. No,
>you can not.
>
>Memory access speed has not kept pace with CPU progress.
>
>We hide some of the agony with L1/L2/L3 cache, but
>it is still not enough. At some point, you need to
>access wide patches of DRAM, and you access the DRAM
>in random order (7ZIP compressor, dictionary access, many
>threads, many dictionaries).
>
>The end result is, a 3GHz processor is not 3000 times faster
>than a 1MHz processor. It's some smaller factor. And
>a 5GHz processor is not 5000 times faster than a 1MHz
>processor.
>
>Processors still talk to DRAM. DRAM still has slow
>transaction rates (a transaction typically being
>a cache line on the CPU).
>
>"Progress", would be using some of that sweet
>sync SRAM that costs $500 *per chip*. Is that
>going to happen ? Of course not.
>
>There must be order in the universe.
>
>And punters must be fed small incremental
>improvements in things, for fear of
>upsetting the notion of a "precious"
>ecosystem. We need a 200MHz faster processor,
>to cost $1000 more than the other processor.
>
>So really, nothing has changed.
>
>Sure, algorithms which run in-cache, and have
>a small footprint, those go like snot. Maybe
>you're mining bitcoins 20% faster on your
>"obsolete for bitcoin mining" platform. What
>an accomplishment... :-/
>
>The whole thing has been self-deception now,
>for maybe 12-15 years.
>
>At first, when we went from a 300Mhz Celeron
>to 1400MHz Tualatin, there was some reason for
>celebration. Did you know that the transfer speed
>of your SATA SSD today, is *faster* than the speed
>of the *main memory* on the 300MHz Celeron computer ?
>That's how awful DRAM main memory was back then.
>
>And things haven't really changed all that much,
>relatively speaking.
>
>One of the bestest deceptions ?
>
>It's the clock speed they put on your DRAM.
>
>Say someone tells you:
>
> "I have DDR7-8500MHz DRAM"
>
>Well, sure, a tiny tiny burst interval, transfers
>a cache line. Then, the DRAM sits there for more
>than 100 clock cycles, doing sweet fuck all, until
>the next super-fast and tiny squirt of data. The clock
>speed is "irrelevant" because the access time of the
>memory is quite long. So sure, your mom bought you
>the 8500MHz memory, you wrote on USENET "Envy me!
>I have 8500MHz RAM". When in fact, the transaction
>rate (megatransfers per second) is only a fraction
>of that clock rate. A pathetic fraction.
>
>Do you remember those 50cc scooters that used
>to go "yin! yin! yin!". And had a flywheel and
>such ? Well, that's the DRAM on your computer.
>It's one of those scooters.
>
>So what did you get, with a new processor ?
>Well, you've learned to wait more patiently.
>

CXL (Compute Express Link) is coming for large computers. It may have
some benefit for the desk top etc.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

Snit wrote:
> On Jul 22, 2021 at 8:44:44 PM MST, "AJL" wrote
> <sdddvd$nbn$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>
>> Snit wrote:
>>> On Jul 22, 2021 at 8:48:29 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>
>>>> That's why you neanderthals still have guns.
>>>
>>> Who is going to pay the government to stop people from having
>>> guns? You?
>>
>> In a US city I lived in around 40 years ago the city council voted
>> to buy guns (all types) from the public and then destroyed them.
>> They had lots of takers. The program lasted for a couple of years
>> as I recall. I don't remember if it did any good at the time but
>> currently the city has the same gun problem as the rest in its
>> size class (6M pop metro).
>
> Can I ask what city?

The city is not unique. The practice has been used in several
cities, and not in just the US.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_buyback_program>

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> Chris wrote:
>> On 21/07/2021 17:52, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:53:50 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jul 20, 2021 at 9:36:39 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>>> <op.06t8fdosmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:50:00 +0100, David Brooks
>>>>> <DavidB@nomail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 20/07/2021 16:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>> Why do laptops take air from underneath which won't work on your lap?
>>>>>>> It should come in one side and out the other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Apple M1 MacBook Air which, I bought for Mrs B., does even have a
>>>>>> fan! ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless they're worked out how to break the laws of physics, for a
>>>>> powerful
>>>>> laptop you need to get a lot of heat out of it, so I take it that's
>>>>> a very
>>>>> slow laptop?
>>>>
>>>> Nope. It is a very cool CPU.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.tomsguide.com/news/macbook-air-m1-benchmarks-revealed-and-they-destroy-windows-laptops
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course real world comparisons will not perfectly match benchmarks,
>>>> and
>>>> there is more to speed than CPU... but overall the M1 chips are
>>>> amazingly fast
>>>> for the tiny amounts of power they consume compared to Intel chips.
>>>
>>> I'm sure there's a similar chip for a normal computer. There's no way
>>> someone has suddenly made them much more efficient, this is a gradual
>>> process that's been going on for decades.
>>
>> Nothing "sudden" about it. Apple have been designing efficient
>> processors for over a decade. The step-change is that they've
>> successfully applied Arm processors to the pro/consumer computing space
>> from low-power mobile device space.
>
> I suppose you already know that Intel was in the ARM market
> and got out. This is from 2006, to give you some idea
> how long ago that was, that they dabbled in the stuff.
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2006/06/27/intel_sells_xscale/
>
> It's not a question of capability. Intel has lots of
> employees, it also regularly does M&A.
>
> But what is their strategy ?
>
> Have the legacy handcuffs been taken off ?
>
> Is that (partially) what Windows 11 is ?
> A kind of signal ?
>
> There are many possible outcomes, but I've no idea
> what ones make sense.

I guess the issue is that Microsoft lost the desire to develop Windows RT
(on Arm) due to the poor performance and unwillingness of third parties.
That in turn meant intel didn't really have a market for a desktop Arm CPU
so why would they bother?

Apple had the advantage of building both the OS and CPU together so that it
was a mature product when launched.

Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 13:15:16 +0100, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 20/07/2021 16:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> Why do laptops take air from underneath which won't work on your lap?
>>> It should come in one side and out the other.
>>
>> They're not designed to actually sit on your lap... :-/
>
> They're called laptops for a reason, that's where the home ones go.
> Office ones might be on a desk or train table.

Buy one that suits your needs, then. Don't bitch about having bought
something that doesn't work for you.

On 22/07/2021 19.16, Snit wrote:
> On Jul 22, 2021 at 8:46:50 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
> <op.06xvgchrmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>
>> On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 20:13:44 +0100, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Jul 21, 2021 at 10:03:30 AM MST, ""Commander Kinsey"" wrote
>>> <op.06v4b4ghmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 01:20:25 +0100, Rabid Roach <rabid@roa.ch> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2021-07-20 7:27 p.m., Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-07-20 5:47 p.m., Rabid Roach wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2021-07-20 12:36 p.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:50:00 +0100, David Brooks
>>>>>>>> <DavidB@nomail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 20/07/2021 16:42, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Why do laptops take air from underneath which won't work on your lap?
>>>>>>>>>> It should come in one side and out the other.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Apple M1 MacBook Air which, I bought for Mrs B., does even have a
>>>>>>>>> fan! ;-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.apple.com/uk/macbook-air/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unless they're worked out how to break the laws of physics, for a
>>>>>>>> powerful laptop you need to get a lot of heat out of it, so I take it
>>>>>>>> that's a very slow laptop?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It actually has the most powerful and power-efficient mobile processor
>>>>>>> on the market. It truly is a marvel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They wasn't so bad i guess till they got run over by an M1A1. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I probably would have bought one when I was in the market for a laptop
>>>>> at the beginning of last month, if gaming weren't something I was even
>>>>> slightly interesting to me. In the end, it made more sense to get a
>>>>> mobile gaming laptop (which is more or less of the same size as the
>>>>> Macbook Pro) with a discrete GPU. This way, I have more than enough
>>>>> power to run all applications and games AND access to the largest
>>>>> library the world has ever seen.
>>>>
>>>> So the Mac mentioned above has no GPU?
>>>
>>> It does -- but it is an integrated one.
>>>
>>>> No wonder it doesn't need a fan. Not really a computer without graphics.
>>>
>>> It has graphics... and in real world use it works very well.
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/MtLIE74nl-0
>>
>> No, integrated graphics is a compromise. It'll manage a powerpoint
>> presentation....
>
> Of course it is a compromise -- the world is full of them. With the Macbook
> Air it is designed to be lightweight and have a long battery life, and while
> it fits a lot of needs it is not a gaming machine. But it absolutely does have
> a GPU.

I intentionally buy all my laptops with that kind of graphics. I prefer
long battery life over graphic power.

And not only my own laptops, but those I buy for other people - unless
when I find out when questioning them on their usage that they are game
players or some other usage that demands powerful graphics.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

| > Of course it is a compromise -- the world is full of them. With the
Macbook
| > Air it is designed to be lightweight and have a long battery life, and
while
| > it fits a lot of needs it is not a gaming machine. But it absolutely
does have
| > a GPU.
| | I intentionally buy all my laptops with that kind of graphics. I prefer
| long battery life over graphic power.
| | And not only my own laptops, but those I buy for other people - unless
| when I find out when questioning them on their usage that they are game
| players or some other usage that demands powerful graphics.
|

That's a good point that I don't think most people
are even aware of. For many years now, integrated
graphics has been plenty of power to run a large monitor
with 32-bit color. In that sense, separate graphics cards
are outdated technology. Only a small minority of people
are trying to run games where 100 soldiers, or 100 naked
beauties with realistic, flowing hair, need to be displayed
and refreshed at top speed while your avatar kills them or
fucks them, respectively.

It's the difference between a car and a sports car. One
is for transportation. The other is for fun or sport. You
could drive the sports car for transportation, but it's expensive
and your bag of groceries might not even fit in the trunk.
Your kids won't fit in the seats. The only thing it's really
good for is driving very fast and announcing to others that
you have a lot of money. Very, very few people drive sports
cars. And it's the same with computers. A computer is for
doing work. A gaming machine is for fun. Who uses
them? Computer geeks who never grew up and some teenage
boys, mostly. But they do account for many of the advances
in computer technology, thanks to the fact that teenage boys
(and geeky office workers who can't get a date) want their
fantasy naked girls to be as realistic as possible.