I have a 9-year old Acer Aspire X3990; good workhorse, Win10, very
reliable until recently;
https://www.manualslib.com/download/232907/Acer-Aspire-X3990.html

It suddenly started freezing; and no messages to help in the Win Logs,
just mentions after reboot that there had been an unexpected shutdown. I
finally narrowed it down to hardware fault, and then overheating. The
max. temp is 72.6 C; and mine was hovering above that. I took the side
panel off and it's run just fine for two days, still rather hot, though.
There was remarkably little dust in it, and the fans are working fine.

As it's suddenly hit this problem (no recent hardware changes), I want
to clean the heatsink-fan assembly and CPU top. Google tells me I'll
need an air-duster, alcohol wipes and thermal paste.

I'd appreciate comments on my above, and advice from people who've done
this.

Ed

On 8/7/2021 10:18 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
> I have a 9-year old Acer Aspire X3990; good workhorse, Win10, very
> reliable until recently;
> https://www.manualslib.com/download/232907/Acer-Aspire-X3990.html
>
> It suddenly started freezing; and no messages to help in the Win Logs,
> just mentions after reboot that there had been an unexpected shutdown. I
> finally narrowed it down to hardware fault, and then overheating. The
> max. temp is 72.6 C; and mine was hovering above that. I took the side
> panel off and it's run just fine for two days, still rather hot, though.
> There was remarkably little dust in it, and the fans are working fine.
>
> As it's suddenly hit this problem (no recent hardware changes), I want
> to clean the heatsink-fan assembly and CPU top. Google tells me I'll
> need an air-duster, alcohol wipes and thermal paste.
>
> I'd appreciate comments on my above, and advice from people who've done
> this.
>
> Ed
I've done it many times over the decades, and you will need what your
search recommends. It's not complicated, just go slowly and don't overdo
anything like adding too much thermal paste.

While you're at it, clean the dust off of all components on the
motherboard, the fan of the power supply and cabinet vents.

--
best regards,

Neil

On 2021-08-07 9:18 a.m., Ed Cryer wrote:
> I have a 9-year old Acer Aspire X3990; good workhorse, Win10, very
> reliable until recently;
> https://www.manualslib.com/download/232907/Acer-Aspire-X3990.html
>
> It suddenly started freezing; and no messages to help in the Win Logs,
> just mentions after reboot that there had been an unexpected shutdown. I
> finally narrowed it down to hardware fault, and then overheating. The
> max. temp is 72.6 C; and mine was hovering above that. I took the side
> panel off and it's run just fine for two days, still rather hot, though.
> There was remarkably little dust in it, and the fans are working fine.
>
> As it's suddenly hit this problem (no recent hardware changes), I want
> to clean the heatsink-fan assembly and CPU top. Google tells me I'll
> need an air-duster, alcohol wipes and thermal paste.
>
> I'd appreciate comments on my above, and advice from people who've done
> this.
>
> Ed

I have done this many times so I can give you a few hints.

Take the heat-sink off and remove fan

Clean the fan blades with a damp cloth

Blow the dust from the heat-sink/or wash it completely in hot soapy
water, rinse then blow completely dry

reinstall fan

Remove old thermal material from CPU and mating surface of cooler with
alcohol wipes or in my case I use small pieces of cloth and 99%
isopropyl alcohol

Make sure it is thoroulhly dry.

Add a small amount of new thermal compound, I use a about the size of a
large grain of rice, Spread this out evenly with a credit card or other
straight piece of plastic.

You only want a very thin layer, nearly translucent but spread very
evenly with full coverage

As for brands I have about 8 or 9 tubes of Arctic silver MX,
Cooler-Master, Corsair, Noctua and a couple others, All have given good
results.

HTH.

Rene

Ed Cryer wrote:
> I have a 9-year old Acer Aspire X3990; good workhorse, Win10, very
> reliable until recently;
> https://www.manualslib.com/download/232907/Acer-Aspire-X3990.html
>
> It suddenly started freezing; and no messages to help in the Win Logs,
> just mentions after reboot that there had been an unexpected shutdown. I
> finally narrowed it down to hardware fault, and then overheating. The
> max. temp is 72.6 C; and mine was hovering above that. I took the side
> panel off and it's run just fine for two days, still rather hot, though.
> There was remarkably little dust in it, and the fans are working fine.
>
> As it's suddenly hit this problem (no recent hardware changes), I want
> to clean the heatsink-fan assembly and CPU top. Google tells me I'll
> need an air-duster, alcohol wipes and thermal paste.
>
> I'd appreciate comments on my above, and advice from people who've done
> this.
>
> Ed

Periodically replacing the heat sink compound is common.
I do that ever year or two depending on the computer along with cleaning
the entire insides with brushes then blow everything off with an air
compressor.

I usually use a non-water based liquid like lighter fluid and multiple
Q-Tips to remove the old compound.

To add to other's excellent comments, IMPORTANT>> be sure to ground
yourself to the comp chassis. I hate the usual wrist and ankle bands so
will stick a bare wire in my shoe, sock, or waist and alligator clip the
other end to the comp. Be careful when drying the parts. Moving air
generates plasma / corona discharge. The hotter the air the more
corona. Some of the air equipment that we use for work generates a foot
of blue "flame" at the end of the pipe / wire.
It's pretty at night but not so good for electronics.

Ed Cryer wrote:
> I have a 9-year old Acer Aspire X3990; good workhorse, Win10, very
> reliable until recently;
> https://www.manualslib.com/download/232907/Acer-Aspire-X3990.html
>
> I took the side panel off and it's run just fine for two days,
> still rather hot, though.

PCs *normally* work better with the side panel closed.

Your PC seems to be minimally equipped for front-to-back cooling.

https://media.karousell.com/media/photos/products/2018/11/12/acer_aspire_x3990_pc_1541961982_12d959aa_progressive.jpg

Gulp!!!

It used the PSU fan to cool the PC ??? Yikes.

Check that the PSU fan is spinning. I can tell from
the dinky size of PSU, it uses one of those small small
fans (a whiner).

When a PC becomes more stable by opening the side,
it means either an intake filter is plugged with dust
(not on yours, big grille holes). Or, it means the
back exhaust fan is dead, turning the PC into a
crematorium for the hard drive to endure.

You can view the hard drive (HDD) temperature with HDTune
health tab, amongst others. If you're running an SSD, you'll
need something else for that, like the SSD Toolkit provided
by the manufacturer. Check mfg spec for max HDD temp
(55C? 60C? really? they'll take that? FDB motor? grrr).

http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe

No wonder the poor thing idles at such a high
temperature. Your computer case is a "Case from Hell".

Summary: Based on available evidence, fix case cooling
first. While it's fun to take CPU apart and
re-butter with TIM, there is also a tiny tiny
danger of breaking something. For example,
ham-fisted Paul ruined the CoolerMaster fan
on his CoolerMaster blow-down cooler one day.
And replaced it with a screw-on Vantec Stealth
(four screws), which is still there today. And
that was while cleaning the CM fan blades. The
CoolerMaster uses a spring-loaded fan hub!

Paul

On 8/7/2021 1:09 PM, Paul wrote:
> Ed Cryer wrote:
>> I have a 9-year old Acer Aspire X3990; good workhorse, Win10, very
>> reliable until recently;
>> https://www.manualslib.com/download/232907/Acer-Aspire-X3990.html
>>
>> I took the side panel off and it's run just fine for two days,
>> still rather hot, though.
>
> PCs *normally* work better with the side panel closed.
>
> Your PC seems to be minimally equipped for front-to-back cooling.
>
> https://media.karousell.com/media/photos/products/2018/11/12/acer_aspire_x3990_pc_1541961982_12d959aa_progressive.jpg
>
> Gulp!!!
>
> It used the PSU fan to cool the PC ??? Yikes.
>
> Check that the PSU fan is spinning. I can tell from
> the dinky size of PSU, it uses one of those small small
> fans (a whiner).

.....

> No wonder the poor thing idles at such a high
> temperature. Your computer case is a "Case from Hell".

Speaking of cases and power supplies, I'm planning on getting a new
computer (my present one isn't compatible with Windows 11), probably
next month. The case and power supply I'm tentatively planning on are

Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower Chassis with Window Cases PH-ES614P_BK,Black

and

Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold SLI/Crossfire Ready Ultra Quiet
140mm Hydraulic Bearing Smart Zero Fan Full Modular Power Supply

I'm far from a hardware expert. Comments on the quality of these
components and any recommended changes from you or anyone else who knows
more about hardware than I do would be greatly appreciated.

And while I'm at it, here are the other components I'm planning on:

Motherboard - ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND LGA 1200 Intel B560 SATA 6Gb/s
Micro ATX Intel motherboard

CPU Intel Core i9-10900

CPU Cooler - be quiet! 250W TDP Dark Rock Pro 4 CPU Cooler with Silent
Wings - PWM Fan - 135mm

RAM - CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR4 (PC4
28800) Int Model CMK32GX4M2D3600C18

M2 Drive - Seagate Firecuda 520 2TB Performance Internal Solid State
Drive SSD PCIe Gen4 X4 NVMe 1.3

DVD Drive - ASUS DRW-24F1ST - DVD SATA SUPERMULTI Burner - SERIAL ATA -
BLACK - OEM Bulk Drive

No graphics card, since I don't play computer games and the
motherboard's graphics support should be OK for my two monitors.

I'll move the two 2TB hard drives on my present computer into the new one.

The total cost should be just under $1,500. I'll keep my present
keyboard, mouse, and two 24" monitors, all of which I like.

Again, comments on those components or any recommended changes would be
greatly appreciated.

With the help of a friend who is much younger and is much better at this
sort of thing than I am, I'll build it. (Actually, he'll probably do
most of the building).

I'll have a total of 32GB of RAM, and 6GB of disk space, and both are
more than I need now, but I like to plan ahead for the future.
--
Ken

On Sat, 7 Aug 2021 13:33:38 -0700, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:

>Speaking of cases and power supplies, I'm planning on getting a new
>computer (my present one isn't compatible with Windows 11), probably
>next month. The case and power supply I'm tentatively planning on are
>
>Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower Chassis with Window Cases PH-ES614P_BK,Black
>
> and
>
>Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold SLI/Crossfire Ready Ultra Quiet
>140mm Hydraulic Bearing Smart Zero Fan Full Modular Power Supply
>
>I'm far from a hardware expert. Comments on the quality of these
>components and any recommended changes from you or anyone else who knows
>more about hardware than I do would be greatly appreciated.
>
>And while I'm at it, here are the other components I'm planning on:
>
>
>Motherboard - ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND LGA 1200 Intel B560 SATA 6Gb/s
>Micro ATX Intel motherboard

I see that this motherboard has one HDMI port and one DisplayPort. Be sure
to plan accordingly since you want to drive both of your existing monitors.

[snip]

>No graphics card, since I don't play computer games and the
>motherboard's graphics support should be OK for my two monitors.

[snip]

On 8/7/2021 2:34 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Aug 2021 13:33:38 -0700, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>
>>Speaking of cases and power supplies, I'm planning on getting a new
>>computer (my present one isn't compatible with Windows 11), probably
>>next month. The case and power supply I'm tentatively planning on are
>>
>>Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower Chassis with Window Cases PH-ES614P_BK,Black
>>
>> and
>>
>>Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold SLI/Crossfire Ready Ultra Quiet
>>140mm Hydraulic Bearing Smart Zero Fan Full Modular Power Supply
>>
>>I'm far from a hardware expert. Comments on the quality of these
>>components and any recommended changes from you or anyone else who knows
>>more about hardware than I do would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>And while I'm at it, here are the other components I'm planning on:
>>
>>
>>Motherboard - ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND LGA 1200 Intel B560 SATA 6Gb/s
>>Micro ATX Intel motherboard
>
> I see that this motherboard has one HDMI port and one DisplayPort. Be sure
> to plan accordingly since you want to drive both of your existing monitors.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by "plan accordingly." What's the
difference between an HDMI port and display port?. Can I use that
motherboard with both monitors?

Is there another good but not-too-expensive motherboard that would be
better for two monitors? I chose that motherboard primarily because it
wasn't expensive and I thought it would support both my monitors and
because my present computer has an ASROCK motherboard and I've been
happy with it.

I suppose that if I needed a graphics card, I could buy an inexpensive
one that supports two monitors. Any recommendations?

--
Ken

On 2021-08-07 4:53 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
> On 8/7/2021 2:34 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 Aug 2021 13:33:38 -0700, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Speaking of cases and power supplies, I'm planning on getting a new
>>> computer (my present one isn't compatible with Windows 11), probably
>>> next month. The case and power supply I'm tentatively planning on are
>>>
>>> Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower Chassis with Window Cases
>>> PH-ES614P_BK,Black
>>>
>>>    and
>>>
>>> Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold SLI/Crossfire Ready Ultra
>>> Quiet 140mm Hydraulic Bearing Smart Zero Fan Full Modular Power Supply
>>>
>>> I'm far from a hardware expert. Comments on the quality of these
>>> components and any recommended changes from you or anyone else who
>>> knows more about hardware than I do would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> And while I'm at it, here are the other components I'm planning on:
>>>
>>>
>>> Motherboard - ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND LGA 1200 Intel B560 SATA 6Gb/s
>>> Micro ATX Intel motherboard
>>
>> I see that this motherboard has one HDMI port and one DisplayPort. Be
>> sure
>> to plan accordingly since you want to drive both of your existing
>> monitors.
>
>
> Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by "plan accordingly." What's the
> difference between an HDMI port and display port?. Can I use that
> motherboard with both monitors?
>
> Is there another good but not-too-expensive motherboard that would be
> better for two monitors? I chose that motherboard primarily because it
> wasn't expensive and I thought it would support both my monitors and
> because my present computer has an ASROCK motherboard and I've been
> happy with it.
>
> I suppose that if I needed a graphics card, I could buy an inexpensive
> one that supports two monitors. Any recommendations?
>
>

One question, The M/B supports onboard graphics but so must the CPU, I
didn't see any mention of it in the specs I saw.

Rene

On 8/7/21 7:18 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
> I have a 9-year old Acer Aspire X3990; good workhorse, Win10, very
> reliable until recently;
> https://www.manualslib.com/download/232907/Acer-Aspire-X3990.html
>
> It suddenly started freezing; and no messages to help in the Win Logs,
> just mentions after reboot that there had been an unexpected shutdown. I
> finally narrowed it down to hardware fault, and then overheating. The
> max. temp is 72.6 C; and mine was hovering above that. I took the side
> panel off and it's run just fine for two days, still rather hot, though.
> There was remarkably little dust in it, and the fans are working fine.
>
> As it's suddenly hit this problem (no recent hardware changes), I want
> to clean the heatsink-fan assembly and CPU top. Google tells me I'll
> need an air-duster, alcohol wipes and thermal paste.
>
> I'd appreciate comments on my above, and advice from people who've done
> this.
>
> Ed

Hi Ed,

As your CPU fan starts to lose effeciency (gets
clogged), it will get louder as it runs faster
to try to achieve the same cooling effect (unless
you have a really old motherboard). I have had
some that sound like an airplane.

All I do is to blow out the fan (and any dust in
the cabinet whilst I have the case open).

YOU MUST !!!!! capture the blades on a fan before
blowing it out. If you don't and the blades twirl,
it will become a reverse generator and will damage
things.

Also, with all fans, spin the blades with your fingers.

1) They should spin freely, and

2) when the stop, they should bobble (caught between
the poles).

If either of the above do not happen, replace the fan.

HTH,
-T

Ken Blake wrote:
> On 8/7/2021 1:09 PM, Paul wrote:
>> Ed Cryer wrote:
>>> I have a 9-year old Acer Aspire X3990; good workhorse, Win10, very
>>> reliable until recently;
>>> https://www.manualslib.com/download/232907/Acer-Aspire-X3990.html
>>>
>>> I took the side panel off and it's run just fine for two days, still
>>> rather hot, though.
>>
>> PCs *normally* work better with the side panel closed.
>>
>> Your PC seems to be minimally equipped for front-to-back cooling.
>>
>> https://media.karousell.com/media/photos/products/2018/11/12/acer_aspire_x3990_pc_1541961982_12d959aa_progressive.jpg
>>
>>
>> Gulp!!!
>>
>> It used the PSU fan to cool the PC ??? Yikes.
>>
>> Check that the PSU fan is spinning. I can tell from
>> the dinky size of PSU, it uses one of those small small
>> fans (a whiner).
>
>
> ....
>
>> No wonder the poor thing idles at such a high
>> temperature. Your computer case is a "Case from Hell".
>
>
> Speaking of cases and power supplies, I'm planning on getting a new
> computer (my present one isn't compatible with Windows 11), probably
> next month. The case and power supply I'm tentatively planning on are
>
> Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower Chassis with Window Cases PH-ES614P_BK,Black
>
> and
>
> Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold SLI/Crossfire Ready Ultra Quiet
> 140mm Hydraulic Bearing Smart Zero Fan Full Modular Power Supply
>
> I'm far from a hardware expert. Comments on the quality of these
> components and any recommended changes from you or anyone else who knows
> more about hardware than I do would be greatly appreciated.
>
> And while I'm at it, here are the other components I'm planning on:
>
>
> Motherboard - ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND LGA 1200 Intel B560 SATA 6Gb/s
> Micro ATX Intel motherboard
>
> CPU Intel Core i9-10900
>
> CPU Cooler - be quiet! 250W TDP Dark Rock Pro 4 CPU Cooler with Silent
> Wings - PWM Fan - 135mm
>
> RAM - CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR4 (PC4
> 28800) Int Model CMK32GX4M2D3600C18
>
> M2 Drive - Seagate Firecuda 520 2TB Performance Internal Solid State
> Drive SSD PCIe Gen4 X4 NVMe 1.3
>
> DVD Drive - ASUS DRW-24F1ST - DVD SATA SUPERMULTI Burner - SERIAL ATA -
> BLACK - OEM Bulk Drive
>
> No graphics card, since I don't play computer games and the
> motherboard's graphics support should be OK for my two monitors.
>
> I'll move the two 2TB hard drives on my present computer into the new one.
>
> The total cost should be just under $1,500. I'll keep my present
> keyboard, mouse, and two 24" monitors, all of which I like.
>
>
> Again, comments on those components or any recommended changes would be
> greatly appreciated.
>
>
> With the help of a friend who is much younger and is much better at this
> sort of thing than I am, I'll build it. (Actually, he'll probably do
> most of the building).
>
>
> I'll have a total of 32GB of RAM, and 6GB of disk space, and both are
> more than I need now, but I like to plan ahead for the
> future.
> --
> Ken

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermaltake-toughpower-gf1-850w-power-supply

"Thermaltake's Toughpower GF1 line consists of three members
with capacities ranging from 650W to 850W. They are based on
a platform that is provided by Channel Well Technology." <===

The reason I checked for that, is a lot of PSUs are made under
contract, and you want to know who made them.

Seasonic, for example, makes their own supplies.

Corsair is likely to be a contract-driven company,
occasionally contracting really good suppliers :-)

The jonnyguru site is closed, so it doesn't look like
any more real-reviews will be available.

Check the reviews on Newegg. There are a few early deaths.

https://www.newegg.com/thermaltake-toughpower-gf1-tt-premium-edition-ps-tpd-0850fnfaga-1-850w/p/N82E16817153403

Since you don't have a video card, that should be more
than enough power.

*******

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/intel-10th-gen-cpu-power-consumption-explained-pl1-pl2-and-tau/

PL1 PL2 TAU
Core i9-10900 65W 224W for 28 seconds

Your monster power supply can provide the 224W plus 50W
for motherboard OK. That's not a full power budget. It
all depends on whether you want headroom for a future
mammoth video card. (I saw a video card within the last
week, equipped with four fans! There was a fan on the back.)

*******

ZP2000GM30002 FireCuda 2TB

Interface PCIe Gen4 ×4
NVMe 1.3
NAND Flash Memory 3D TLC
Form Factor M.2 2280-D2
2TB model = 3600TBW (1800 device writes, end to end)

That means it will have a (SLC) write cache, and after some amount
of continuous writes (say 20GB worth), will slow down. MLC
2-bit drives could write continuously at a constant rate. Still,
given that the design is brand new and your choices are TLC (3-bit)
or QLC (4-bit), TLC is the better of the two choices. We are unlikely
to see extreme-corner-condition drives, except for the "Chia Farm"
ones with exceptionally high TBW write endurance (12000 or 24000 TBW).
And they don't even list prices for those.

*******

ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND

1 x Hyper M.2 Socket (M2_1), supports M Key type
Gen4 x4 (8GB/sec) with 11th Gen Intel Core Processors or
Gen3 x4 (4GB/sec) with 10th Gen Intel Core Processors
1 x Ultra M.2 Socket (M2_2), supports M Key typeto
Gen3 x4 (4GB/sec) <=== off the PCH, not the CPU

The M2_1 is by the audio stack and just above the video card slot.
It appears to have some metal sitting above it.

The M2_2 is bottom right corner, near PCH. The PCH bandwidth
comes through the DMI interface, and cannot go faster than DMI.

*******

Pretty sad really. I was expecting a bit more out of the PCH.

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-in-B560-and-Z590-motherboards-besides-CPU-overclocking

"The B560 chipset has 12 PCIe 3.0 lanes while the
Z590 chipset has 24. This means that Z590 is able to
connect to more peripheral devices and M.2 SSDs simultaneously. <=== DMI limited

The B560 chipset has up to 12 USB connections,
including up to 6 USB3.0 (500MB/sec)
4 USB3.1Rev2 (1GB/sec),
including up to 2 20Gbps (USB3.2 Rev2 C connector?)

The Z590 chipset has up to 14 USB connections,
including up to 10 USB3.1Rev2 (1GB/sec),
or maybe 3 20Gbps (USB3.2 Rev2 C connector?)

As an example, the Z590 Aorus Ultra has 1x 20Gbps USB connection,
5x 10Gbps connections, 6x 5Gbps connections, and 8x 0.5Gbps (USB2)
connections. This is 20 total USB connections - 2 of the 5Gbps
connections and 4 of the 0.5Gbps connections come from added
USB chips. [USB chips possible because of extra lanes on Z590, limited
by DMI if there is some way to "engage" them all at once.]

The Z590 chipset supports RAID (SATA?),
while the B560 chipset does not. [Software RAID. Intel RST etc]

Typically, though not always, Z590 motherboards will have better
VRMs and other premium features such as Thunderbolt. [Better VRM
only if supporting K overclocked processors, needing overclock.]

You might check your Steel Legend for USB connectors, but I
doubt that what you find matters a whole lot. You'd need an NVMe
in an external casing, to really care about that stuff.

Hopefully, by the time you're ready to buy ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND,
Newegg will have more user reviews. Telling us about the
quality of the UEFI BIOS in it. There are too few reviews
to say anything constructive.

Paul

On 2021-08-07 5:05 p.m., Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2021-08-07 4:53 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 8/7/2021 2:34 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
>>> On Sat, 7 Aug 2021 13:33:38 -0700, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Speaking of cases and power supplies, I'm planning on getting a new
>>>> computer (my present one isn't compatible with Windows 11), probably
>>>> next month. The case and power supply I'm tentatively planning on are
>>>>
>>>> Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower Chassis with Window Cases
>>>> PH-ES614P_BK,Black
>>>>
>>>>    and
>>>>
>>>> Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold SLI/Crossfire Ready Ultra
>>>> Quiet 140mm Hydraulic Bearing Smart Zero Fan Full Modular Power Supply
>>>>
>>>> I'm far from a hardware expert. Comments on the quality of these
>>>> components and any recommended changes from you or anyone else who
>>>> knows more about hardware than I do would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> And while I'm at it, here are the other components I'm planning on:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Motherboard - ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND LGA 1200 Intel B560 SATA 6Gb/s
>>>> Micro ATX Intel motherboard
>>>
>>> I see that this motherboard has one HDMI port and one DisplayPort. Be
>>> sure
>>> to plan accordingly since you want to drive both of your existing
>>> monitors.
>>
>>
>> Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by "plan accordingly." What's the
>> difference between an HDMI port and display port?. Can I use that
>> motherboard with both monitors?
>>
>> Is there another good but not-too-expensive motherboard that would be
>> better for two monitors? I chose that motherboard primarily because it
>> wasn't expensive and I thought it would support both my monitors and
>> because my present computer has an ASROCK motherboard and I've been
>> happy with it.
>>
>> I suppose that if I needed a graphics card, I could buy an inexpensive
>> one that supports two monitors. Any recommendations?
>>
>>
>
> One question, The M/B supports onboard graphics but so must the CPU, I
> didn't see any mention of it in the specs I saw.
>
> Rene
>

Now found another set of specs which show UHD intel graphics on Die, so
that seems Ok.
That should be A beast of a Data Cruncher when done.

Rene

On 07/08/2021 15:18, Ed Cryer wrote:
> I have a 9-year old Acer Aspire X3990; good workhorse, Win10, very
> reliable until recently;
> https://www.manualslib.com/download/232907/Acer-Aspire-X3990.html
>
> It suddenly started freezing; and no messages to help in the Win Logs,
> just mentions after reboot that there had been an unexpected shutdown. I
> finally narrowed it down to hardware fault, and then overheating. The
> max. temp is 72.6 C; and mine was hovering above that. I took the side
> panel off and it's run just fine for two days, still rather hot, though.
> There was remarkably little dust in it, and the fans are working fine.
>
> As it's suddenly hit this problem (no recent hardware changes), I want
> to clean the heatsink-fan assembly and CPU top. Google tells me I'll
> need an air-duster, alcohol wipes and thermal paste.
>
> I'd appreciate comments on my above, and advice from people who've done
> this.
>
> Ed

Also open and clean the power supply. Every now and again when my old PC
starts making a racket it's the power supply fan going nuts trying to
keep it cool.

On 07/08/2021 18.04, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2021-08-07 9:18 a.m., Ed Cryer wrote:
>> I have a 9-year old Acer Aspire X3990; good workhorse, Win10, very
>> reliable until recently;
>> https://www.manualslib.com/download/232907/Acer-Aspire-X3990.html
>>
>> It suddenly started freezing; and no messages to help in the Win Logs,
>> just mentions after reboot that there had been an unexpected shutdown.
>> I finally narrowed it down to hardware fault, and then overheating.
>> The max. temp is 72.6 C; and mine was hovering above that. I took the
>> side panel off and it's run just fine for two days, still rather hot,
>> though.
>> There was remarkably little dust in it, and the fans are working fine.
>>
>> As it's suddenly hit this problem (no recent hardware changes), I want
>> to clean the heatsink-fan assembly and CPU top. Google tells me I'll
>> need an air-duster, alcohol wipes and thermal paste.
>>
>> I'd appreciate comments on my above, and advice from people who've
>> done this.
>>
>> Ed
>
> I have done this many times so I can give you a few hints.
>
> Take the heat-sink off and remove fan

I have never needed to do this in decades.

The exception was one or two computers that the manufacturer did not use
any thermal compound, and it would heat up since the start.

Otherwise, I just clean the dust if any, and check that all the fans
turn properly.

There is another problem that has not been mentioned, which are fluid
filled heat sinks, that lost the fluid. Typically used in some laptops.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 8/7/2021 3:18 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2021-08-07 5:05 p.m., Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>> On 2021-08-07 4:53 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On 8/7/2021 2:34 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 7 Aug 2021 13:33:38 -0700, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Speaking of cases and power supplies, I'm planning on getting a new
>>>>> computer (my present one isn't compatible with Windows 11), probably
>>>>> next month. The case and power supply I'm tentatively planning on are
>>>>>
>>>>> Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower Chassis with Window Cases
>>>>> PH-ES614P_BK,Black
>>>>>
>>>>>    and
>>>>>
>>>>> Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold SLI/Crossfire Ready Ultra
>>>>> Quiet 140mm Hydraulic Bearing Smart Zero Fan Full Modular Power Supply
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm far from a hardware expert. Comments on the quality of these
>>>>> components and any recommended changes from you or anyone else who
>>>>> knows more about hardware than I do would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> And while I'm at it, here are the other components I'm planning on:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Motherboard - ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND LGA 1200 Intel B560 SATA 6Gb/s
>>>>> Micro ATX Intel motherboard
>>>>
>>>> I see that this motherboard has one HDMI port and one DisplayPort. Be
>>>> sure
>>>> to plan accordingly since you want to drive both of your existing
>>>> monitors.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by "plan accordingly." What's the
>>> difference between an HDMI port and display port?. Can I use that
>>> motherboard with both monitors?
>>>
>>> Is there another good but not-too-expensive motherboard that would be
>>> better for two monitors? I chose that motherboard primarily because it
>>> wasn't expensive and I thought it would support both my monitors and
>>> because my present computer has an ASROCK motherboard and I've been
>>> happy with it.
>>>
>>> I suppose that if I needed a graphics card, I could buy an inexpensive
>>> one that supports two monitors. Any recommendations?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> One question, The M/B supports onboard graphics but so must the CPU, I
>> didn't see any mention of it in the specs I saw.
>>
>> Rene
>>
>
> Now found another set of specs which show UHD intel graphics on Die, so
> that seems Ok.
> That should be A beast of a Data Cruncher when done.

Thanks. I hope so.

--
Ken

On 8/7/2021 3:17 PM, Paul wrote:
> Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 8/7/2021 1:09 PM, Paul wrote:
>>> Ed Cryer wrote:
>>>> I have a 9-year old Acer Aspire X3990; good workhorse, Win10, very
>>>> reliable until recently;
>>>> https://www.manualslib.com/download/232907/Acer-Aspire-X3990.html
>>>>
>>>> I took the side panel off and it's run just fine for two days, still
>>>> rather hot, though.
>>>
>>> PCs *normally* work better with the side panel closed.
>>>
>>> Your PC seems to be minimally equipped for front-to-back cooling.
>>>
>>> https://media.karousell.com/media/photos/products/2018/11/12/acer_aspire_x3990_pc_1541961982_12d959aa_progressive.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> Gulp!!!
>>>
>>> It used the PSU fan to cool the PC ??? Yikes.
>>>
>>> Check that the PSU fan is spinning. I can tell from
>>> the dinky size of PSU, it uses one of those small small
>>> fans (a whiner).
>>
>>
>> ....
>>
>>> No wonder the poor thing idles at such a high
>>> temperature. Your computer case is a "Case from Hell".
>>
>>
>> Speaking of cases and power supplies, I'm planning on getting a new
>> computer (my present one isn't compatible with Windows 11), probably
>> next month. The case and power supply I'm tentatively planning on are
>>
>> Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower Chassis with Window Cases PH-ES614P_BK,Black
>>
>> and
>>
>> Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold SLI/Crossfire Ready Ultra Quiet
>> 140mm Hydraulic Bearing Smart Zero Fan Full Modular Power Supply
>>
>> I'm far from a hardware expert. Comments on the quality of these
>> components and any recommended changes from you or anyone else who knows
>> more about hardware than I do would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> And while I'm at it, here are the other components I'm planning on:
>>
>>
>> Motherboard - ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND LGA 1200 Intel B560 SATA 6Gb/s
>> Micro ATX Intel motherboard
>>
>> CPU Intel Core i9-10900
>>
>> CPU Cooler - be quiet! 250W TDP Dark Rock Pro 4 CPU Cooler with Silent
>> Wings - PWM Fan - 135mm
>>
>> RAM - CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR4 (PC4
>> 28800) Int Model CMK32GX4M2D3600C18
>>
>> M2 Drive - Seagate Firecuda 520 2TB Performance Internal Solid State
>> Drive SSD PCIe Gen4 X4 NVMe 1.3
>>
>> DVD Drive - ASUS DRW-24F1ST - DVD SATA SUPERMULTI Burner - SERIAL ATA -
>> BLACK - OEM Bulk Drive
>>
>> No graphics card, since I don't play computer games and the
>> motherboard's graphics support should be OK for my two monitors.
>>
>> I'll move the two 2TB hard drives on my present computer into the new one.
>>
>> The total cost should be just under $1,500. I'll keep my present
>> keyboard, mouse, and two 24" monitors, all of which I like.
>>
>>
>> Again, comments on those components or any recommended changes would be
>> greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>> With the help of a friend who is much younger and is much better at this
>> sort of thing than I am, I'll build it. (Actually, he'll probably do
>> most of the building).
>>
>>
>> I'll have a total of 32GB of RAM, and 6GB of disk space, and both are
>> more than I need now, but I like to plan ahead for the
>> future.

Thanks very much for your comments. Questions/comments interspersed bebelow.

>
> https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermaltake-toughpower-gf1-850w-power-supply
>
> "Thermaltake's Toughpower GF1 line consists of three members
> with capacities ranging from 650W to 850W. They are based on
> a platform that is provided by Channel Well Technology." <===
>
> The reason I checked for that, is a lot of PSUs are made under
> contract, and you want to know who made them.

Why? Why should I care?

> Seasonic, for example, makes their own supplies.
>
> Corsair is likely to be a contract-driven company,
> occasionally contracting really good suppliers :-)
>
> The jonnyguru site is closed, so it doesn't look like
> any more real-reviews will be available.
>
> Check the reviews on Newegg. There are a few early deaths.
>
> https://www.newegg.com/thermaltake-toughpower-gf1-tt-premium-edition-ps-tpd-0850fnfaga-1-850w/p/N82E16817153403

I had looked there when I chose this one, but I just looked again. I
don't see anything negative. Am I missing something?

If you have another you recommend instead, please tell me.

> Since you don't have a video card, that should be more
> than enough power.

That's what I thought.

> *******
>
> https://www.hardwaretimes.com/intel-10th-gen-cpu-power-consumption-explained-pl1-pl2-and-tau/
>
> PL1 PL2 TAU
> Core i9-10900 65W 224W for 28 seconds
>
> Your monster power supply can provide the 224W plus 50W
> for motherboard OK. That's not a full power budget. It
> all depends on whether you want headroom for a future
> mammoth video card.

If I ever get a video card, it's highly unlikely to be a mammoth one. As
I said, I don't play computer games.

> (I saw a video card within the last
> week, equipped with four fans! There was a fan on the back.)
>
> *******
>
> ZP2000GM30002 FireCuda 2TB
>
> Interface PCIe Gen4 ×4
> NVMe 1.3
> NAND Flash Memory 3D TLC
> Form Factor M.2 2280-D2
> 2TB model = 3600TBW (1800 device writes, end to end)
>
> That means it will have a (SLC) write cache, and after some amount
> of continuous writes (say 20GB worth), will slow down. MLC
> 2-bit drives could write continuously at a constant rate. Still,
> given that the design is brand new and your choices are TLC (3-bit)
> or QLC (4-bit), TLC is the better of the two choices. We are unlikely
> to see extreme-corner-condition drives, except for the "Chia Farm"
> ones with exceptionally high TBW write endurance (12000 or 24000 TBW).
> And they don't even list prices for those.

Does that mean you recommend a different drive? If so, please tell me;
if it's not too much more expensive I'd consider it.

> *******
>
> ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND
>
> 1 x Hyper M.2 Socket (M2_1), supports M Key type
> Gen4 x4 (8GB/sec) with 11th Gen Intel Core Processors or
> Gen3 x4 (4GB/sec) with 10th Gen Intel Core Processors
> 1 x Ultra M.2 Socket (M2_2), supports M Key typeto
> Gen3 x4 (4GB/sec) <=== off the PCH, not the CPU
>
> The M2_1 is by the audio stack and just above the video card slot.
> It appears to have some metal sitting above it.
>
> The M2_2 is bottom right corner, near PCH. The PCH bandwidth
> comes through the DMI interface, and cannot go faster than DMI.
>
> *******
>
> Pretty sad really. I was expecting a bit more out of the PCH.
>
> https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-in-B560-and-Z590-motherboards-besides-CPU-overclocking
>
> "The B560 chipset has 12 PCIe 3.0 lanes while the
> Z590 chipset has 24. This means that Z590 is able to
> connect to more peripheral devices and M.2 SSDs simultaneously. <=== DMI limited
>
> The B560 chipset has up to 12 USB connections,
> including up to 6 USB3.0 (500MB/sec)
> 4 USB3.1Rev2 (1GB/sec),
> including up to 2 20Gbps (USB3.2 Rev2 C connector?)
>
> The Z590 chipset has up to 14 USB connections,
> including up to 10 USB3.1Rev2 (1GB/sec),
> or maybe 3 20Gbps (USB3.2 Rev2 C connector?)
>
> As an example, the Z590 Aorus Ultra has 1x 20Gbps USB connection,
> 5x 10Gbps connections, 6x 5Gbps connections, and 8x 0.5Gbps (USB2)
> connections. This is 20 total USB connections - 2 of the 5Gbps
> connections and 4 of the 0.5Gbps connections come from added
> USB chips. [USB chips possible because of extra lanes on Z590, limited
> by DMI if there is some way to "engage" them all at once.]
>
> The Z590 chipset supports RAID (SATA?),
> while the B560 chipset does not. [Software RAID. Intel RST etc]
>
> Typically, though not always, Z590 motherboards will have better
> VRMs and other premium features such as Thunderbolt. [Better VRM
> only if supporting K overclocked processors, needing overclock.]
>
> You might check your Steel Legend for USB connectors, but I
> doubt that what you find matters a whole lot. You'd need an NVMe
> in an external casing, to really care about that stuff.
>
> Hopefully, by the time you're ready to buy ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND,
> Newegg will have more user reviews. Telling us about the
> quality of the UEFI BIOS in it. There are too few reviews
> to say anything constructive.
>
> Paul
>

Ken Blake wrote:
> On 8/7/2021 3:18 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:

>> Now found another set of specs which show UHD intel graphics on Die, so
>> that seems Ok.
>> That should be A beast of a Data Cruncher when done.
>
>
> Thanks. I hope so.

Check your two monitors.

If one monitor has a DisplayPort, the other monitor has an HDMI input,
then you have a "perfect match".

B560 --- HDMI ----------- HDMI_Monitor
\
--- DP ----------- DP_Monitor

If the monitors are crusty in any way (mine have only VGA inputs),
then you need to add dongle adapters to those I/O plate outputs.
I keep a stock of HDMI to VGA and DisplayPort to VGA here. At my
house, the project would look like this.

B560 --- HDMI ----- HDMI-to-VGA --------- VGA_Monitor_#1
\
--- DP ----- DP-to-VGA ----------- VGA_Monitor_#2

Those two adapters, draw +5V from a pin on the
motherboard side of the diagram. The adapter simply
fits inline with the cabling, no challenges.

We would need to know what connectors are on each monitor,
to best advise on what to do. Some adaptations are easy to
do, some are harder and more expensive. You might pay $20
for the easy adapters, and up to $100 for the harder-to-do
ones.

There are also ways to run monitors off Thunderbolt, but
I've never seen an article showing practical examples. It
remains a mostly theoretical possibility due to the poor
penetration of Thunderbolt on ordinary PCs. Contemplating
adapters is a lot easier.

You might even get away with one monitor being direct-wired,
and the second monitor being a bodge. The adapters are
for the most part transparent to the application. The software
should not whine about them. None of the software on the
Test Machine, has ever complained about my adapters.

Paul

Sorry, I accidentally pressed "Send" before I was ready. See below for
the rest of what I wanted to say.

> ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND
>
> 1 x Hyper M.2 Socket (M2_1), supports M Key type
> Gen4 x4 (8GB/sec) with 11th Gen Intel Core Processors or
> Gen3 x4 (4GB/sec) with 10th Gen Intel Core Processors
> 1 x Ultra M.2 Socket (M2_2), supports M Key typeto
> Gen3 x4 (4GB/sec) <=== off the PCH, not the CPU
>
> The M2_1 is by the audio stack and just above the video card slot.
> It appears to have some metal sitting above it.
>
> The M2_2 is bottom right corner, near PCH. The PCH bandwidth
> comes through the DMI interface, and cannot go faster than DMI.

Sorry, I know next to nothing about PCH and DMI. Which socket would I
use--Hyper or Ultra? Is that good or bad?

> *******
>
> Pretty sad really. I was expecting a bit more out of the PCH.
>
> https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-in-B560-and-Z590-motherboards-besides-CPU-overclocking

I'm not interested in overclocking. But I just looked up Z590
motherboards on Amazon. They recommend the Gigabyte Z590I Aorus Ultra
(https://www.amazon.com/GIGABYTE-Z590I-AORUS-Mini-ITX-Motherboard/dp/B08W8G5CCC/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Z590+Aorus+Ultra&qid=1628377543&sr=8-2).
They call it a gaming motherboard, but I assume that the word "gaming"
isn't significant; it just refers to speed, right?

Would that motherboard make a significant difference to me? Do you
recommend it? Or would you recommend some other one. It's an extra $150,
but I'd spring for it if it would madk a significant difference in
performance.

The price I had budgeted for everything was $2,000, and I'm
significantly under that, so I'm open to spending a little more here and
there for significant improvements.

>
> "The B560 chipset has 12 PCIe 3.0 lanes while the
> Z590 chipset has 24. This means that Z590 is able to
> connect to more peripheral devices and M.2 SSDs simultaneously. <=== DMI limited
>
> The B560 chipset has up to 12 USB connections,
> including up to 6 USB3.0 (500MB/sec)
> 4 USB3.1Rev2 (1GB/sec),
> including up to 2 20Gbps (USB3.2 Rev2 C connector?)
>
> The Z590 chipset has up to 14 USB connections,
> including up to 10 USB3.1Rev2 (1GB/sec),
> or maybe 3 20Gbps (USB3.2 Rev2 C connector?)
>
> As an example, the Z590 Aorus Ultra has 1x 20Gbps USB connection,
> 5x 10Gbps connections, 6x 5Gbps connections, and 8x 0.5Gbps (USB2)
> connections. This is 20 total USB connections - 2 of the 5Gbps
> connections and 4 of the 0.5Gbps connections come from added
> USB chips. [USB chips possible because of extra lanes on Z590, limited
> by DMI if there is some way to "engage" them all at once.]
>
> The Z590 chipset supports RAID (SATA?),
> while the B560 chipset does not. [Software RAID. Intel RST etc]
>
> Typically, though not always, Z590 motherboards will have better
> VRMs and other premium features such as Thunderbolt. [Better VRM
> only if supporting K overclocked processors, needing overclock.]
>
> You might check your Steel Legend for USB connectors, but I
> doubt that what you find matters a whole lot. You'd need an NVMe
> in an external casing, to really care about that stuff.
>
> Hopefully, by the time you're ready to buy ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND,
> Newegg will have more user reviews. Telling us about the
> quality of the UEFI BIOS in it. There are too few reviews
> to say anything constructive.

There's nothing sacred about that motherboard to me. Should I get the
Gigabyte Z590I Aorus Ultra instead? Or if you have a better suggestion
that will support the Intel i9 and two monitors and doesn't cost a
whole lot more, please tell me (see above).

--
Ken

On 8/7/2021 4:03 PM, Paul wrote:
> Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 8/7/2021 3:18 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>
>>> Now found another set of specs which show UHD intel graphics on Die, so
>>> that seems Ok.
>>> That should be A beast of a Data Cruncher when done.
>>
>>
>> Thanks. I hope so.
>
> Check your two monitors.
>
> If one monitor has a DisplayPort, the other monitor has an HDMI input,
> then you have a "perfect match".
>
> B560 --- HDMI ----------- HDMI_Monitor
> \
> --- DP ----------- DP_Monitor
>
> If the monitors are crusty in any way (mine have only VGA inputs),
> then you need to add dongle adapters to those I/O plate outputs.
> I keep a stock of HDMI to VGA and DisplayPort to VGA here. At my
> house, the project would look like this.
>
> B560 --- HDMI ----- HDMI-to-VGA --------- VGA_Monitor_#1
> \
> --- DP ----- DP-to-VGA ----------- VGA_Monitor_#2
>
> Those two adapters, draw +5V from a pin on the
> motherboard side of the diagram. The adapter simply
> fits inline with the cabling, no challenges.
>
> We would need to know what connectors are on each monitor,
> to best advise on what to do. Some adaptations are easy to
> do, some are harder and more expensive. You might pay $20
> for the easy adapters, and up to $100 for the harder-to-do
> ones.
>
> There are also ways to run monitors off Thunderbolt, but
> I've never seen an article showing practical examples. It
> remains a mostly theoretical possibility due to the poor
> penetration of Thunderbolt on ordinary PCs. Contemplating
> adapters is a lot easier.
>
> You might even get away with one monitor being direct-wired,
> and the second monitor being a bodge. The adapters are
> for the most part transparent to the application. The software
> should not whine about them. None of the software on the
> Test Machine, has ever complained about my adapters.

The monitors are identical and they have have the same cable/connectors.
The current Asrock motherboard has two sockets, one D-Sub (I think) and
one HDMI (I think). One of the monitor cables uses an adaptor to connect
to the HDMI port. Or is what I think is HDMI actually a Display Port?

Pardon my ignorance. As I said, I'm far from being a hardware expert,
and I know very little about this stuff.

--
Ken

On 2021-08-07 6:33 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
> On 8/7/2021 4:03 PM, Paul wrote:
>> Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On 8/7/2021 3:18 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>
>>>> Now found another set of specs which show UHD intel graphics on Die, so
>>>> that seems Ok.
>>>> That should be A beast of a Data Cruncher when done.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks. I hope so.
>>
>> Check your two monitors.
>>
>> If one monitor has a DisplayPort, the other monitor has an HDMI input,
>> then you have a "perfect match".
>>
>>       B560 --- HDMI ----------- HDMI_Monitor
>>           \
>>            --- DP   ----------- DP_Monitor
>>
>> If the monitors are crusty in any way (mine have only VGA inputs),
>> then you need to add dongle adapters to those I/O plate outputs.
>> I keep a stock of HDMI to VGA and DisplayPort to VGA here. At my
>> house, the project would look like this.
>>
>>       B560 --- HDMI ----- HDMI-to-VGA --------- VGA_Monitor_#1
>>           \
>>            --- DP   ----- DP-to-VGA ----------- VGA_Monitor_#2
>>
>> Those two adapters, draw +5V from a pin on the
>> motherboard side of the diagram. The adapter simply
>> fits inline with the cabling, no challenges.
>>
>> We would need to know what connectors are on each monitor,
>> to best advise on what to do. Some adaptations are easy to
>> do, some are harder and more expensive. You might pay $20
>> for the easy adapters, and up to $100 for the harder-to-do
>> ones.
>>
>> There are also ways to run monitors off Thunderbolt, but
>> I've never seen an article showing practical examples. It
>> remains a mostly theoretical possibility due to the poor
>> penetration of Thunderbolt on ordinary PCs. Contemplating
>> adapters is a lot easier.
>>
>> You might even get away with one monitor being direct-wired,
>> and the second monitor being a bodge. The adapters are
>> for the most part transparent to the application. The software
>> should not whine about them. None of the software on the
>> Test Machine, has ever complained about my adapters.
>
>
> The monitors are identical and they have have the same cable/connectors.
> The current Asrock motherboard has two sockets, one D-Sub (I think) and
> one HDMI (I think). One of the monitor cables uses an adaptor to connect
> to the HDMI port. Or is what I think is HDMI actually a Display Port?
>
> Pardon my ignorance. As I said, I'm far from being a hardware expert,
> and I know very little about this stuff.
>
>

The display port and HDMI sockets look nearly the same, the HDMI port
has 2 corners chopped off, the display port only 1.
About the mother board I would spent an extra $20 for the Z590 Asrock
Or even better an Extra $50 for an Asus Prime Z590 to get the best out
of your other high profile components, just my thoughts.

Rene

On 8/7/2021 4:58 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2021-08-07 6:33 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 8/7/2021 4:03 PM, Paul wrote:
>>> Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On 8/7/2021 3:18 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Now found another set of specs which show UHD intel graphics on Die, so
>>>>> that seems Ok.
>>>>> That should be A beast of a Data Cruncher when done.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks. I hope so.
>>>
>>> Check your two monitors.
>>>
>>> If one monitor has a DisplayPort, the other monitor has an HDMI input,
>>> then you have a "perfect match".
>>>
>>>       B560 --- HDMI ----------- HDMI_Monitor
>>>           \
>>>            --- DP   ----------- DP_Monitor
>>>
>>> If the monitors are crusty in any way (mine have only VGA inputs),
>>> then you need to add dongle adapters to those I/O plate outputs.
>>> I keep a stock of HDMI to VGA and DisplayPort to VGA here. At my
>>> house, the project would look like this.
>>>
>>>       B560 --- HDMI ----- HDMI-to-VGA --------- VGA_Monitor_#1
>>>           \
>>>            --- DP   ----- DP-to-VGA ----------- VGA_Monitor_#2
>>>
>>> Those two adapters, draw +5V from a pin on the
>>> motherboard side of the diagram. The adapter simply
>>> fits inline with the cabling, no challenges.
>>>
>>> We would need to know what connectors are on each monitor,
>>> to best advise on what to do. Some adaptations are easy to
>>> do, some are harder and more expensive. You might pay $20
>>> for the easy adapters, and up to $100 for the harder-to-do
>>> ones.
>>>
>>> There are also ways to run monitors off Thunderbolt, but
>>> I've never seen an article showing practical examples. It
>>> remains a mostly theoretical possibility due to the poor
>>> penetration of Thunderbolt on ordinary PCs. Contemplating
>>> adapters is a lot easier.
>>>
>>> You might even get away with one monitor being direct-wired,
>>> and the second monitor being a bodge. The adapters are
>>> for the most part transparent to the application. The software
>>> should not whine about them. None of the software on the
>>> Test Machine, has ever complained about my adapters.
>>
>>
>> The monitors are identical and they have have the same cable/connectors.
>> The current Asrock motherboard has two sockets, one D-Sub (I think) and
>> one HDMI (I think). One of the monitor cables uses an adaptor to connect
>> to the HDMI port. Or is what I think is HDMI actually a Display Port?
>>
>> Pardon my ignorance. As I said, I'm far from being a hardware expert,
>> and I know very little about this stuff.
>>
>>
>
> The display port and HDMI sockets look nearly the same, the HDMI port
> has 2 corners chopped off, the display port only 1.

Thanks. I think it's HDMI, but I'll check tomorrow

> About the mother board I would spent an extra $20 for the Z590 Asrock
> Or even better an Extra $50 for an Asus Prime Z590 to get the best out
> of your other high profile components, just my thoughts.

Thanks very much. No time now, but I'll look into those tomorrow

--
Ken

On Sat, 07 Aug 2021 19:03:02 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 8/7/2021 3:18 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>
>>> Now found another set of specs which show UHD intel graphics on Die, so
>>> that seems Ok.
>>> That should be A beast of a Data Cruncher when done.
>>
>>
>> Thanks. I hope so.
>
>Check your two monitors.
>
>If one monitor has a DisplayPort, the other monitor has an HDMI input,
>then you have a "perfect match".
>
> B560 --- HDMI ----------- HDMI_Monitor
> \
> --- DP ----------- DP_Monitor
>
>If the monitors are crusty in any way (mine have only VGA inputs),
>then you need to add dongle adapters to those I/O plate outputs.
>I keep a stock of HDMI to VGA and DisplayPort to VGA here. At my
>house, the project would look like this.
>
> B560 --- HDMI ----- HDMI-to-VGA --------- VGA_Monitor_#1
> \
> --- DP ----- DP-to-VGA ----------- VGA_Monitor_#2
>
>Those two adapters, draw +5V from a pin on the
>motherboard side of the diagram. The adapter simply
>fits inline with the cabling, no challenges.
>
>We would need to know what connectors are on each monitor,
>to best advise on what to do. Some adaptations are easy to
>do, some are harder and more expensive. You might pay $20
>for the easy adapters, and up to $100 for the harder-to-do
>ones.
>
>There are also ways to run monitors off Thunderbolt, but
>I've never seen an article showing practical examples. It
>remains a mostly theoretical possibility due to the poor
>penetration of Thunderbolt on ordinary PCs. Contemplating
>adapters is a lot easier.
>
>You might even get away with one monitor being direct-wired,
>and the second monitor being a bodge. The adapters are
>for the most part transparent to the application. The software
>should not whine about them. None of the software on the
>Test Machine, has ever complained about my adapters.

That reminds me that I've seen USB-C devices that include one or more HDMI
ports, so I guess that's another possibility. I don't have anything with
DisplayPort connectors here and I've read that DP-to-HDMI can be
problematic, so maybe it's going to be DP-to-VGA or USB-C to HDMI. It also
somewhat depends on what kind of connectivity the monitors have.

https://www.amazon.com/usb-c-hdmi/s?k=usb+c+to+hdmi

On Sat, 7 Aug 2021 14:53:18 -0700, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:

>On 8/7/2021 2:34 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 Aug 2021 13:33:38 -0700, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Speaking of cases and power supplies, I'm planning on getting a new
>>>computer (my present one isn't compatible with Windows 11), probably
>>>next month. The case and power supply I'm tentatively planning on are
>>>
>>>Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower Chassis with Window Cases PH-ES614P_BK,Black
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>>Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold SLI/Crossfire Ready Ultra Quiet
>>>140mm Hydraulic Bearing Smart Zero Fan Full Modular Power Supply
>>>
>>>I'm far from a hardware expert. Comments on the quality of these
>>>components and any recommended changes from you or anyone else who knows
>>>more about hardware than I do would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>>And while I'm at it, here are the other components I'm planning on:
>>>
>>>
>>>Motherboard - ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND LGA 1200 Intel B560 SATA 6Gb/s
>>>Micro ATX Intel motherboard
>>
>> I see that this motherboard has one HDMI port and one DisplayPort. Be sure
>> to plan accordingly since you want to drive both of your existing monitors.
>
>
>Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by "plan accordingly." What's the
>difference between an HDMI port and display port?. Can I use that
>motherboard with both monitors?

Paul and others seem to have the situation under control so I'll step back.
I only meant that you should be sure you know what kind of connectors your
monitors have. If they have HDMI and DP, you're all set. If not, then
you'll need to think about an adapter of some kind, as well as the proper
cable(s).

Ken Blake wrote:
> On 8/7/2021 1:09 PM, Paul wrote:

>
> Speaking of cases and power supplies, I'm planning on getting a new
> computer (my present one isn't compatible with Windows 11), probably
> next month. The case and power supply I'm tentatively planning on are
>
> Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower Chassis with Window Cases PH-ES614P_BK,Black
>
> Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W 80+ Gold SLI/Crossfire Ready Ultra Quiet
> 140mm Hydraulic Bearing Smart Zero Fan Full Modular Power Supply
>
> I'm far from a hardware expert. Comments on the quality of these
> components and any recommended changes from you or anyone else who knows
> more about hardware than I do would be greatly appreciated.
>
> And while I'm at it, here are the other components I'm planning on:
>
> Motherboard - ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND LGA 1200 Intel B560 SATA 6Gb/s
> Micro ATX Intel motherboard
>
> CPU    Intel Core i9-10900
>
> CPU Cooler - be quiet! 250W TDP Dark Rock Pro 4 CPU Cooler with Silent
> Wings - PWM Fan - 135mm
>
> RAM - CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR4 (PC4
> 28800) Int Model CMK32GX4M2D3600C18
>
> M2 Drive - Seagate Firecuda 520 2TB Performance Internal Solid State
> Drive SSD PCIe Gen4 X4 NVMe 1.3
>
> DVD Drive - ASUS DRW-24F1ST - DVD SATA SUPERMULTI Burner - SERIAL ATA -
> BLACK - OEM Bulk Drive
>
> No graphics card, since I don't play computer games and the
> motherboard's graphics support should be OK for my two monitors.
>
> I'll move the two 2TB hard drives on my present computer into the new one.
>
> The total cost should be just under $1,500. I'll keep my present
> keyboard, mouse, and two 24" monitors, all of which I like.
>
>
> Again, comments on those components or any recommended changes would be
> greatly appreciated.
>
>
> With the help of a friend who is much younger and is much better at this
> sort of thing than I am, I'll build it. (Actually, he'll probably do
> most of the building).
>
> I'll have a total of 32GB of RAM, and 6GB of disk space, and both are
> more than I need now, but I like to plan ahead for the future.
>                                         --
> Ken

My opinions based on experience and personal preferences:

You did not say what you would be doing with the new comp or how long
you intend it to last.

Black Comp Case: They are difficult to see and work on.
I prefer beige or gray.
Steel case: They are heavy and difficult to mod.
Forget about the heavy glass door.
30+ pound computers are difficult to handle.
I prefer all aluminum. Alum has about 5 times the thermal conductivity
of steel.

Thermaltake is good but the last one I had was a 750 and it burned out
in 3 years (possibly my fault due to over clocking). Now I only use
Seasonic Prime Titanium.

CPU cooler... I prefer liquid coolers from Cooler Master.
The difference in cooling ability is significant. Your cooler selection
will cover 1/3 of the MB. Will it block or change air flow? The heat
goes inside the case to heat up the other components. I like radiators
outside of the case or at least attached to the back or top of the case.
Also, it is not so good to have a large heavy fan attached to the MB.
Picture a vibrating, heavy thing suspended from the glass and resin MB
by 4 screws and if you're lucky some sort of back plate.

If you're not a gamer then you may not need an i9.
An i5 or i7 would work just fine. Likewise for the 3600 MHz ram.
2400 would work just fine. I suggest a ram fan, too, but with your CPU
cooler selection that may not be possible.
m.2 or SSD's... I prefer Samsung Pro and have fans on them, too.

I prefer vid cards instead of onboard GPU's

Ken Blake wrote:
> On 8/7/2021 3:17 PM, Paul wrote:
>> Ken Blake wrote:

>> The reason I checked for that, is a lot of PSUs are made under
>> contract, and you want to know who made them.
>
> Why? Why should I care?
>

The history of some of the companies, tends to show their philosophy.

For example FSP (fortron sparkle), the cables were always short.
And the crossloading, always "hugged" the spec in the ATX specification
document (they used all the slop the spec had to offer).

For CWT, I have a couple dead ones here, leaking caps.

If a product has a long warranty, you would want to "inspect"
how customers are treated when making a warranty claim, and whether
they use a "sliding scale refund" type scheme. There have been some
companies that had excellent policies, for some other computer products,
but... they went bankrupt. When you see a long warranty, it should not
be considered a "crutch" for a weak or ethically challenged contract
manufacturer. Power supplies are a "cutthroat" business. I was
warned about this by an old hand, even before I became an engineer.
(This is like 45 years ago.)

>
>> Seasonic, for example, makes their own supplies.
>>
>> Corsair is likely to be a contract-driven company,
>> occasionally contracting really good suppliers :-)
>>
>> The jonnyguru site is closed, so it doesn't look like
>> any more real-reviews will be available.
>>
>> Check the reviews on Newegg. There are a few early deaths.
>>
>>
>> https://www.newegg.com/thermaltake-toughpower-gf1-tt-premium-edition-ps-tpd-0850fnfaga-1-850w/p/N82E16817153403
>>
>
>
> I had looked there when I chose this one, but I just looked again. I
> don't see anything negative. Am I missing something?
>
> If you have another you recommend instead, please tell me.

There is always the possibility you and I will be shown
different reviews. It could be done via geolocation. When
you see bad reviews, sometimes there's a pattern to it, so
you have to keep a firm hand on the tiller when reading the
reports.

Anonymous 10/23/2020 11:19:33 AM
Ownership: 1 month to 1 year
Verified Owner
Died after 2 months

Pros: Worked well while it was working...
Cons: Died. When trying to boot I would hear a clicking noise from the PSU.
It would still provide passive power for the motherboard LED while
the PC was off but nothing would happen when pressing the power button.
I unplugged/plugged everything in, removed RAM and still nothing happened.

Overall Review: See cons.
3 out of 3 people found this review helpful. Did you?

Manufacturer Response:
Greetings,

Your unit appears to have had a defect. We can replace this for you.
Please go to our website thermaltakeusa.com and under support submit
an eRMA and we will replace the unit for you.

*******

gerald b. 9/2/2020 8:31:54 AM
Ownership: 1 month to 1 year
Verified Owner
great power,great price.

Pros: didnt need any bells and whistles and this fit the bill
perfectly. top knotch power supply.always believe double
what you need. sure paid off with the new nvidia 3000
cards being 350watts. proving overkill is good !!!

Cons: none that ive come across

Overall Review: solid power supply,850watts no longer overkill
highly recommend
2 out of 2 people found this review helpful. Did you?

*******

Anonymous 3/14/2020 12:32:47 PM
Ownership: 1 week to 1 month
Verified Owner
Wonderful

Overall Review: No problems Like the layout and design
so hard to find non-RGB stuff anymore
2 out of 2 people found this review helpful. Did you?

*******

Anonymous 12/10/2020 8:46:11 AM
Ownership: 1 day to 1 week
Verified Owner
Random reboots

Pros: The product build looks fantastic. Packaging, wires, all seem high quality

Overall Review: I may have gotten a dud. My computer prior to installation was
very reliable. I only upgraded the PSU to have more overhead
for current system. After new PSU install i was experiencing
random reboots with no crashes. It almost looked like someone
pulled the power cord and plugged it back in quickly. I wanted
to keep it, but i do not want to run the risk of killing my hard
to find components.

1 out of 1 people found this review helpful. Did you?

Manufacturer Response:
We apologize for this issue, please submit a warranty request
with us at: https://support.thermaltake.com/RMA_Agreement.aspx

*******

Daniel P. 7/13/2020 6:42:57 PM

Ownership: 1 week to 1 month
Verified Owner
Tons of power and works great

Pros: Modular = good, use just the cables/connectors you need.
Good quality power supply ready for next upgrade

Needed this for a 2070 card, was using 450W and it didn't
have an 8 pin connector. Only the older 6 pin.

Cons: Paid extra for next day delivery, but of course UPS failed
and arrived a day late. Not a con on the product though.

Overall Review: More wattage than I really need but I'll be ready
for next upgrade. This power supply is generations
ahead of my old modular 450W supply.
1 out of 1 people found this review helpful. Did you?

*******

Anonymous
Ownership: 1 week to 1 month
Verified Owner
just works7/6/2020 8:43:07 PM

Overall Review: more power than i needed but it was what
was available.. no complaints.. good psu

3 out of 4 people found this review helpful. Did you?

*******

Jason B.
Ownership: 1 month to 1 year
Verified Owner
Works great!8/6/2021 7:16:13 AM

Pros: Works as intended, workhorse of a power supply.

Overall Review: It is a strong runner, no real problems.
Did you find this review helpful?

Joamel G.
Ownership: 1 week to 1 month
Verified Owner
Qualify PSU7/30/2021 9:40:10 AM

Pros: Good quality as expected

Overall Review: Good product
Did you find this review helpful?

Anonymous
Ownership: more than 1 year
Verified Owner
Overkill7/15/2021 4:55:20 AM

Pros: Plenty of power
Future proof for 30 series

Overall Review: I probably should have selected a lower wattage
but at least I'd be able to get a high end 30 series gpu.

Did you find this review helpful?

*******

Anonymous 6/29/2021 7:03:59 PM
Ownership: 1 month to 1 year
Verified Owner
Disappointed

Overall Review: Stop working after two months of having it
Did you find this review helpful?

Manufacturer Response:
Greetings,

Sorry your unit is defective. Please feel free to file an RMA
and we will work to replace your defective product.

https://support.thermaltake.com/RMA_Agreement.aspx

*******

It seems "Anonymous" people are the ones who have
a problem with the product.

And we don't drop the power on these units too much, because
of the "class" of the things. If you go too low, the PSUs
are contracted out to even worse people :-) Like if I dropped
from an 850W to 650W, the construction would still be good.
If I dropped to 450W, I might get schlock.

>
>> Since you don't have a video card, that should be more
>> than enough power.
>
>
> That's what I thought.

This is similar to the one you selected, the difference being that
the crowd tends to give this brand a free ride. But, the table
here reveals it's a ChannelWell (CWT) as well. I have two dead ones
of those here (cap plague). Cap plague won't be an issue today,
but you do not soon forget the nuisance this causes (changing out PSU).
It has a ten year warranty.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-rm850-power-supply,6127.html

I have some PSUs here, that the design is great, but the warranty
situation is perilous. I read an account of someone who sent email
after email to the contract support people (people living in the same
country as me), and got no reply. The warranty support was eventually
removed from the country entirely (in effect, contractor fired), and...
so was the product. They disappeared from the shelves. The company wanted
nothing more to do with us :-) The PSUs themselves, just run and run,
not a squeak out of them.

*******

EVGA SuperNOVA 750 GA . It seems EVGA doesn't stick with one contractor.
Reviewers have trouble telling one of their models from another, making
selection difficult. The price on that one was $99, but like the GF1, it
has a few negative reports. The cables are reported to be stiff.

*******

For this one, Good reviews. But the usual problems. Tone deaf instruction manual.
Customer support a little bit dodgy (but that's the industry average).
Also, stiff cables. You may want to buy some extenders, not because
extenders are a clever thing, but they may make installation easier.
You might want a computer case with support posts inside, that
you could tie-wrap stiff cables, then run decent extender cables
from there to the loads :-) The reason this happens, is the quality
of copper drops with each generation (copper is recycled). I'm sure
someone knows how to make wire... maybe someone on Mars.