Ken Blake wrote:
> On 8/7/2021 3:17 PM, Paul wrote:
>> Ken Blake wrote:

>> The reason I checked for that, is a lot of PSUs are made under
>> contract, and you want to know who made them.
>
> Why? Why should I care?
>

The history of some of the companies, tends to show their philosophy.

For example FSP (fortron sparkle), the cables were always short.
And the crossloading, always "hugged" the spec in the ATX specification
document (they used all the slop the spec had to offer).

For CWT, I have a couple dead ones here, leaking caps.

If a product has a long warranty, you would want to "inspect"
how customers are treated when making a warranty claim, and whether
they use a "sliding scale refund" type scheme. There have been some
companies that had excellent policies, for some other computer products,
but... they went bankrupt. When you see a long warranty, it should not
be considered a "crutch" for a weak or ethically challenged contract
manufacturer. Power supplies are a "cutthroat" business. I was
warned about this by an old hand, even before I became an engineer.
(This is like 45 years ago.)

>
>> Seasonic, for example, makes their own supplies.
>>
>> Corsair is likely to be a contract-driven company,
>> occasionally contracting really good suppliers :-)
>>
>> The jonnyguru site is closed, so it doesn't look like
>> any more real-reviews will be available.
>>
>> Check the reviews on Newegg. There are a few early deaths.
>>
>>
>> https://www.newegg.com/thermaltake-toughpower-gf1-tt-premium-edition-ps-tpd-0850fnfaga-1-850w/p/N82E16817153403
>>
>
>
> I had looked there when I chose this one, but I just looked again. I
> don't see anything negative. Am I missing something?
>
> If you have another you recommend instead, please tell me.

There is always the possibility you and I will be shown
different reviews. It could be done via geolocation. When
you see bad reviews, sometimes there's a pattern to it, so
you have to keep a firm hand on the tiller when reading the
reports.

Anonymous 10/23/2020 11:19:33 AM
Ownership: 1 month to 1 year
Verified Owner
Died after 2 months

Pros: Worked well while it was working...
Cons: Died. When trying to boot I would hear a clicking noise from the PSU.
It would still provide passive power for the motherboard LED while
the PC was off but nothing would happen when pressing the power button.
I unplugged/plugged everything in, removed RAM and still nothing happened.

Overall Review: See cons.
3 out of 3 people found this review helpful. Did you?

Manufacturer Response:
Greetings,

Your unit appears to have had a defect. We can replace this for you.
Please go to our website thermaltakeusa.com and under support submit
an eRMA and we will replace the unit for you.

*******

gerald b. 9/2/2020 8:31:54 AM
Ownership: 1 month to 1 year
Verified Owner
great power,great price.

Pros: didnt need any bells and whistles and this fit the bill
perfectly. top knotch power supply.always believe double
what you need. sure paid off with the new nvidia 3000
cards being 350watts. proving overkill is good !!!

Cons: none that ive come across

Overall Review: solid power supply,850watts no longer overkill
highly recommend
2 out of 2 people found this review helpful. Did you?

*******

Anonymous 3/14/2020 12:32:47 PM
Ownership: 1 week to 1 month
Verified Owner
Wonderful

Overall Review: No problems Like the layout and design
so hard to find non-RGB stuff anymore
2 out of 2 people found this review helpful. Did you?

*******

Anonymous 12/10/2020 8:46:11 AM
Ownership: 1 day to 1 week
Verified Owner
Random reboots

Pros: The product build looks fantastic. Packaging, wires, all seem high quality

Overall Review: I may have gotten a dud. My computer prior to installation was
very reliable. I only upgraded the PSU to have more overhead
for current system. After new PSU install i was experiencing
random reboots with no crashes. It almost looked like someone
pulled the power cord and plugged it back in quickly. I wanted
to keep it, but i do not want to run the risk of killing my hard
to find components.

1 out of 1 people found this review helpful. Did you?

Manufacturer Response:
We apologize for this issue, please submit a warranty request
with us at: https://support.thermaltake.com/RMA_Agreement.aspx

*******

Daniel P. 7/13/2020 6:42:57 PM

Ownership: 1 week to 1 month
Verified Owner
Tons of power and works great

Pros: Modular = good, use just the cables/connectors you need.
Good quality power supply ready for next upgrade

Needed this for a 2070 card, was using 450W and it didn't
have an 8 pin connector. Only the older 6 pin.

Cons: Paid extra for next day delivery, but of course UPS failed
and arrived a day late. Not a con on the product though.

Overall Review: More wattage than I really need but I'll be ready
for next upgrade. This power supply is generations
ahead of my old modular 450W supply.
1 out of 1 people found this review helpful. Did you?

*******

Anonymous
Ownership: 1 week to 1 month
Verified Owner
just works7/6/2020 8:43:07 PM

Overall Review: more power than i needed but it was what
was available.. no complaints.. good psu

3 out of 4 people found this review helpful. Did you?

*******

Jason B.
Ownership: 1 month to 1 year
Verified Owner
Works great!8/6/2021 7:16:13 AM

Pros: Works as intended, workhorse of a power supply.

Overall Review: It is a strong runner, no real problems.
Did you find this review helpful?

Joamel G.
Ownership: 1 week to 1 month
Verified Owner
Qualify PSU7/30/2021 9:40:10 AM

Pros: Good quality as expected

Overall Review: Good product
Did you find this review helpful?

Anonymous
Ownership: more than 1 year
Verified Owner
Overkill7/15/2021 4:55:20 AM

Pros: Plenty of power
Future proof for 30 series

Overall Review: I probably should have selected a lower wattage
but at least I'd be able to get a high end 30 series gpu.

Did you find this review helpful?

*******

Anonymous 6/29/2021 7:03:59 PM
Ownership: 1 month to 1 year
Verified Owner
Disappointed

Overall Review: Stop working after two months of having it
Did you find this review helpful?

Manufacturer Response:
Greetings,

Sorry your unit is defective. Please feel free to file an RMA
and we will work to replace your defective product.

https://support.thermaltake.com/RMA_Agreement.aspx

*******

It seems "Anonymous" people are the ones who have
a problem with the product.

And we don't drop the power on these units too much, because
of the "class" of the things. If you go too low, the PSUs
are contracted out to even worse people :-) Like if I dropped
from an 850W to 650W, the construction would still be good.
If I dropped to 450W, I might get schlock.

>
>> Since you don't have a video card, that should be more
>> than enough power.
>
>
> That's what I thought.

This is similar to the one you selected, the difference being that
the crowd tends to give this brand a free ride. But, the table
here reveals it's a ChannelWell (CWT) as well. I have two dead ones
of those here (cap plague). Cap plague won't be an issue today,
but you do not soon forget the nuisance this causes (changing out PSU).
It has a ten year warranty.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-rm850-power-supply,6127.html

I have some PSUs here, that the design is great, but the warranty
situation is perilous. I read an account of someone who sent email
after email to the contract support people (people living in the same
country as me), and got no reply. The warranty support was eventually
removed from the country entirely (in effect, contractor fired), and...
so was the product. They disappeared from the shelves. The company wanted
nothing more to do with us :-) The PSUs themselves, just run and run,
not a squeak out of them.

*******

EVGA SuperNOVA 750 GA . It seems EVGA doesn't stick with one contractor.
Reviewers have trouble telling one of their models from another, making
selection difficult. The price on that one was $99, but like the GF1, it
has a few negative reports. The cables are reported to be stiff.

*******

For this one, Good reviews. But the usual problems. Tone deaf instruction manual.
Customer support a little bit dodgy (but that's the industry average).
Also, stiff cables. You may want to buy some extenders, not because
extenders are a clever thing, but they may make installation easier.
You might want a computer case with support posts inside, that
you could tie-wrap stiff cables, then run decent extender cables
from there to the loads :-) The reason this happens, is the quality
of copper drops with each generation (copper is recycled). I'm sure
someone knows how to make wire... maybe someone on Mars.

https://www.newegg.com/seasonic-focus-plus-750-gold-ssr-750fx-750w/p/N82E16817151187

I drive to the local computer store, to buy extenders. I run'em
through my fingers, to ensure they're usable. Some have been
through hundreds of cycles on the SATA drives here, and they
still work, even though the spec is about fifty cycles or so.

That device has a lot of SATA connectors, so you'd have to get
SATA to two SATA (Y cable) extenders. I like to keep around
$50 worth of spares in a bag, because you need the things
at the damdest times. SATA straight to right angle (not too long).
Molex to two SATA (one of my favs, if you have a PSU with lots of
Molex on it).

>> *******
>>
>> ZP2000GM30002 FireCuda 2TB
>>
>> Interface PCIe Gen4 ×4
>> NVMe 1.3
>> NAND Flash Memory 3D TLC
>> Form Factor M.2 2280-D2
>> 2TB model = 3600TBW (1800 device writes, end to end)
>>
>> That means it will have a (SLC) write cache, and after some amount
>> of continuous writes (say 20GB worth), will slow down. MLC
>> 2-bit drives could write continuously at a constant rate. Still,
>> given that the design is brand new and your choices are TLC (3-bit)
>> or QLC (4-bit), TLC is the better of the two choices. We are unlikely
>> to see extreme-corner-condition drives, except for the "Chia Farm"
>> ones with exceptionally high TBW write endurance (12000 or 24000 TBW).
>> And they don't even list prices for those.
>
>
> Does that mean you recommend a different drive? If so, please tell me;
> if it's not too much more expensive I'd consider it.

Drive is fine.

I was trying to give some idea, what the next (absurd) step up was.
But they don't list prices for them. Apparently Micron makes
"Enterprise Class Flash chips". And these have higher write cycles.
Micron are actually pretty clever, making things you can't even buy.
(Listing on web site, no product apparently ships.) We await the
first reviews of the absurd ones.

>
>
>
>> *******
>>
>> ASRock B560M STEEL LEGEND
>>
>> 1 x Hyper M.2 Socket (M2_1), supports M Key type
>> Gen4 x4 (8GB/sec) with 11th Gen Intel Core Processors or
>> Gen3 x4 (4GB/sec) with 10th Gen Intel Core Processors
>> 1 x Ultra M.2 Socket (M2_2), supports M Key typeto
>> Gen3 x4 (4GB/sec) <=== off the PCH, not the CPU
>>
>> The M2_1 is by the audio stack and just above the video card slot.
>> It appears to have some metal sitting above it.
>>
>> The M2_2 is bottom right corner, near PCH. The PCH bandwidth
>> comes through the DMI interface, and cannot go faster than DMI.
>>
>> *******
>>
>> Pretty sad really. I was expecting a bit more out of the PCH.
>>
>> (This is addressing the difference between B560 and Z590)

https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/asus-tuf-z590-plus-wifi-review,2.html

Normally, you expect the motherboards to have a block diagram of the
wiring. In the Guru3D Z590 picture, you can see 20 lanes on the
CPU, 16 lanes for a graphics card, 4 lanes for an M.2 slot.

The DMI consists of eight Rev.3 lanes, equal to four Rev.4 lanes
for math purposes, and if an M.2 Rev.4 storage device was placed
off the Z590, it would use all the bandwidth the DMI had to offer.
(The Gen.11 CPU has 8 lanes for DMI, the Gen.10 CPU has 4 lanes for DMI,
and the unused Z590 lanes on its end, flap in the breeze for Gen.10.)

It then raises the question, of where the two M.2 slots
on the B560 connected.

It took some digging to find more block diagrams. The Gigabyte
site, lots of the Z590 user manuals did not get a block diagram,
but I eventually found one. The Gigabyte site even started blocking
my ability to download manuals.

https://i.postimg.cc/BZhMzf70/b560-versus-z590.gif

There might be some advantage on a Z590 board, to having
a more posh VCore circuit. But that would boil down to a
nicer $2 heatsink on each set of phases. I don't know
where these people get their aluminum extrusion ideas from,
but it would be nice if the heatsinks had fins like they
were heatsinks.

One dude measured 60C-80C on his new motherboard VCore and
concluded that this was um, "wonderful". No, it's not. 80C
means human skin burns if you touch it. I don't ever
want to be working inside a PC and touch a thing like that,
no matter how fast it cools off when the power goes off.

I burned myself on the VCore of my 156W processor setup, and
yours does 224W max for 28 seconds or so. The VCore has
to make the power to do that. A nicer heatsink, or a lower
junction temp on the components, such as you get on a
$1000 motherboard would be great. Surely there's a better
way to do this. But that's about the only opportunity I
see on the Z590 for some advantage. The Z590, if you
got a full sized motherboard, there's more room for junk.
But the other thing I noticed, is they don't have
HDMI+DP connectors on the back, and you only get one
connector for people who don't want to buy a video card.
Be careful what you wish for.

On my system, I placed a fan as near as I could to
the VCore heatsink. That might bring the surface
temp down 5C or so.

Maybe a B560 with a better VCore (perhaps a full sized
motherboard), would make this easier ? Dunno. But the Gen.11
CPU looks like the right choice, compared to the limitations
of the Gen.10 one (if you're lucky, a Rev.4 M.2 slot).

Paul