On 9/6/2021 5:48 AM, Paul wrote:
> Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 9/5/2021 7:15 PM, Paul wrote:
>>> Carey's Fan wrote:
>>>> On 06/09/2021 01:05, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>> 1. The computer sees the DVD drive, but I can't set it as a choice
>>>>> to boot from in the BIOS.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Did you see page 57 of the manual?
>>>>
>>>> <https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/13MANUAL/PRIME_PRO_TUF_GAMING_Intel_500_Series_BIOS_EM_WEB_EN.pdf>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> F8 Function key allows you to choose the boot option on the fly but
>>>> you want is hard wired so you need to set the priorities in the BIOS.
>>>> Please read page 57 and see if it makes sense. You need to select the
>>>> drop-down items in Set Up. The picture is on page 55 and this item is
>>>> the last item. Currently it is EZMode (Easy Mode) but when you click
>>>> the drop-down button it will give you the options for DVD drive if it
>>>> can find it.
>>>>
>>>> How much did you pay to build this machine? I mean the labor cost of
>>>> the technician or did he just do it for free? You could have asked
>>>> Carey Holzman <https://www.youtube.com/c/CareyHolzman/videos> to
>>>> build it for you and he would have done it for you in 48 hours and
>>>> also give you a video of how he has done all this. He charges for the
>>>> service as he is running a business.
>>>
>>> Ken has an able assistant willing to help out.
>>> And that's who built up the computer. This is not
>>> a shop-build.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, a friend. He did a agreat shop of buikding it. It took way less
>> than 48 hours and it cost nothing,
>>
>>
>>> *******
>>>
>>> The 4.23MB generic BIOS manual is here.
>>>
>>> https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1200/TUF_GAMING_Z590-PLUS_WIFI/E18030_TUF_GAMING_Z590-PLUS_WIFI_UM_v2_web.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> But it doesn't explain something. For that, we go here.
>>>
>>> https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?96196-I-need-advice-on-CSM-and-Secure-Boot-settings
>>>
>>>
>>> "No devices in boot list: SOLVED!
>>>
>>> I figured out why in the pre-Windows installation environment and
>>> with CSM disabled that I could not see any of my storage devices
>>> in the "Boot Option Priorities" or "Boot Override" lists.
>>>
>>> Back in the old days of Legacy BIOS booting, all storage devices
>>> showed up in boot lists where you could arrange their priorities
>>> and select one to boot from. Now with UEFI BIOS, only UEFI-bootable
>>> devices show up in those lists, unless you have enabled CSM.
>>> Disabling CSM is for UEFI-only booting, and the only devices that
>>> show up in boot lists are devices that contain
>>> \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi
>>> in the root directory. That is the UEFI "boot loader". If I had
>>> installed Windows on the Samsung 960 Pro then \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi
>>> would appear in the EFI ("System") partition of the drive, and the
>>> boot list would show "windows Boot Manager" or "UEFI: Samsung
>>> 960 Pro"
>>> or something like that.
>>>
>>> The DVD drives did not show up in the boot lists with CSM disabled
>>> because they did not contain any disks. If I insert the
>>> Acronis/WinPE
>>> rescue disk before booting into BIOS, then the DVD drive shows
>>> up as
>>> "UEFI: Pioneer BD-RW BDR-209M" because that disk contains the
>>> directory \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi. Same for a Windows 10 Recovery
>>> thumb
>>> drive I made for a different computer, for booting into the WinRE
>>> environment. It shows up in the boot device list as
>>> "UEFI: SanDisk Ultra USB 3.0 Flash Drive” because it too contains
>>> \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi as I’ve verified.
>>>
>>> So with CSM disabled, the ASUS UEFI Bios will examine all HD, SSD,
>>> USB ports, and DVD drives, looking for UEFI bootable devices that
>>> contain \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi.
>>
>>
>> Thanks very much. CSM is disabled, but we couldn't find a way to enable
>> it. Can you tell me how to do it?
>>
>>
>> So apparently the problem is that since CSM is disabled, the DVD in the
>> drive must not contain \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi, and that's why it's not a
>> choice for boot order.
>>
>> Perhaps I created the DVD incorrectly. Unless you can tell me how to
>> enable CSM, can you tell me to do it properly on my old computer, so it
>> can have \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi and boot and restore the system image
>> that is on the external USB drivve?
>>
>>
>>
>>> In contrast, if CSM is enabled then all devices show up whether or
>>> not they contain \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi.
>>
>>
>> Even if the drive has no DVD in it? That sounds like it's the way it
>> should be. Is there any disadvantage to having CSM enabled and keeping
>> it that way, assuming that I can find a way to do it?
>>
>>
>>
>>> With CSM enabled you will then see two versions for example
>>> "P3: Pioneer BD-RW BDR-209M" and "UEFI: Pioneer BD-RW BDR-209M",
>>> giving you a choice of booting to the device with a Legacy BIOS
>>> boot
>>> or a UEFI boot. The Legacy boot will not use the
>>> \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi
>>> boot application, but will instead use the application named
>>> bootmgr.
>>>
>>> So I can in fact leave CSM disabled and install Windows, and if
>>> I ever
>>> need to boot from an Acronis rescue disk or a Windows Recovery
>>> thumb
>>> drive, I can either press "F2" or "DEL" and boot into bios and
>>> select
>>> the device from the "Boot Override" list, or spam the "F8" key
>>> during
>>> boot after the ROG logo appears, to bring up the
>>> "Please Select Boot Device” menu which will list all devices
>>> containing
>>> \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi.
>>>
>>> If I ever need to boot from a non-UEFI compliant device that
>>> does not
>>> contain \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi then I'd have to enable CSM first if
>>> possible (and probably have to disable Secure Boot). That is my
>>> understanding.
>>>
>>> CSM IS ENABLED BY DEFAULT, so people who want a pure UEFI boot
>>> system
>>> will want to disable CSM before installing the OS.
>>> "
>>
>> But it wasn't enabled by default, unless it somehow got turned off
>> without our realizing that it did or knowing why it happened.
>>
>> Do I need a pure UEFI boot system for Windows 11?
>
> Well, it's a new system, with a pretty cranky looking UEFI design :-)
> It will require the usual experiments.
>
> The Secure Boot setting might well be the one causing the most problem.
> It looks like that setting will be causing grief for mixed mode booting
> purposes.
>
> Chapter 9.1 has Compatibility Support Module as its topic.
> It looks like classes of storage devices can be assigned
> a policy.
>
> Launch CSM [Enabled] # or the other settings won't work
>
> Boot Device Control [UEFI and Legacy OPROM]
>
> Boot from Network Devices [Ignore] # for stuff like PXE perhaps
>
> Boot from Storage Devices [Legacy Only] # best of a bad situation
>
> Boot from PCI-E/PCI expansion [UEFI Only] # Boot Win11 from NVMe sled
>
> *******
>
> This is really not a very good situation at all,
> because booting the DVD in Legacy Mode, won't
> allow a UEFI install to be done. The DVD would
> have to be booted in UEFI mode. If we set the
> Storage Devices (SATA) to Legacy, then some older
> OSes might happen to be booted that way, but not
> all.
>
> Microsoft DVDs prepared by MediaCreationTool, will be
> hybrid, and can be booted in either mode. However,
> the "stated policies" of Windows 11, mean that Microsoft
> no longer has a need to make hybrid media. They could
> easily just do UEFI media. Which then forces you to
> set "Boot from Storage Devices" to [UEFI Only], and
> that pretty well dooms the machine to never using
> CSM at all.
>
> Having these selections is pure silly crap. The
> older approach scanned all devices, put them in the
> menu for better or worse. But at least the previous
> mechanism meant very few trips to the UEFI screen
> to change stuff.
>
> It's obvious this is intended to have the user
> just switch this shit off entirely and have a
> "pure as the driven snow, useless boot choice" situation.
> Like imagine I wanted to dual boot Linux on this
> bucket of bolts - this interface would drive me nuts.
> I would be in there constantly, hammering stuff.
>
> Microsoft themselves could not have dreamed up a
> more dreary set of choices. Think how many meetings
> they sat in "to check we're screwing the users enough".
>
> This might also be the reason the BIOS section was
> put in a separate PDF, so it would take more effort
> to discover the facts.
>
> If you wanted to avoid "UEFI and Secure Boot" entirely,
> maybe that's what the choices are for ? But then, once
> Windows 11 comes along, you'll be put through the
> wringer by these dreary settings.

On 2021-09-06 9:16 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
> On 9/6/2021 5:48 AM, Paul wrote:
>> Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On 9/5/2021 7:15 PM, Paul wrote:
>>>> Carey's Fan wrote:
>>>>> On 06/09/2021 01:05, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>> 1. The computer sees the DVD drive, but I can't set it as a choice
>>>>>> to boot from in the BIOS.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you see page 57 of the manual?
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/13MANUAL/PRIME_PRO_TUF_GAMING_Intel_500_Series_BIOS_EM_WEB_EN.pdf>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> F8 Function key allows you to choose the boot option on the fly but
>>>>> you want is hard wired so you need to set the priorities in the
>>>>> BIOS. Please read page 57 and see if it makes sense. You need to
>>>>> select the drop-down items in Set Up. The picture is on page 55 and
>>>>> this item is the last item. Currently it is EZMode (Easy Mode) but
>>>>> when you click the drop-down button it will give you the options
>>>>> for DVD drive if it can find it.
>>>>>
>>>>> How much did you pay to build this machine? I mean the labor cost
>>>>> of the technician or did he just do it for free? You could have
>>>>> asked Carey Holzman <https://www.youtube.com/c/CareyHolzman/videos>
>>>>> to build it for you and he would have done it for you in 48 hours
>>>>> and also give you a video of how he has done all this. He charges
>>>>> for the service as he is running a business.
>>>>
>>>> Ken has an able assistant willing to help out.
>>>> And that's who built up the computer. This is not
>>>> a shop-build.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, a friend. He did a agreat shop of buikding it. It took way less
>>> than 48 hours and it cost nothing,
>>>
>>>
>>>> *******
>>>>
>>>> The 4.23MB generic BIOS manual is here.
>>>>
>>>> https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1200/TUF_GAMING_Z590-PLUS_WIFI/E18030_TUF_GAMING_Z590-PLUS_WIFI_UM_v2_web.pdf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But it doesn't explain something. For that, we go here.
>>>>
>>>> https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?96196-I-need-advice-on-CSM-and-Secure-Boot-settings
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      "No devices in boot list: SOLVED!
>>>>
>>>>       I figured out why in the pre-Windows installation environment and
>>>>       with CSM disabled that I could not see any of my storage devices
>>>>       in the "Boot Option Priorities" or "Boot Override" lists.
>>>>
>>>>       Back in the old days of Legacy BIOS booting, all storage devices
>>>>       showed up in boot lists where you could arrange their priorities
>>>>       and select one to boot from. Now with UEFI BIOS, only
>>>> UEFI-bootable
>>>>       devices show up in those lists, unless you have enabled CSM.
>>>>       Disabling CSM is for UEFI-only booting, and the only devices that
>>>>       show up in boot lists are devices that contain
>>>> \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi
>>>>       in the root directory. That is the UEFI "boot loader". If I had
>>>>       installed Windows on the Samsung 960 Pro then
>>>> \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi
>>>>       would appear in the EFI ("System") partition of the drive, and
>>>> the
>>>>       boot list would show "windows Boot Manager" or "UEFI: Samsung
>>>> 960 Pro"
>>>>       or something like that.
>>>>
>>>>       The DVD drives did not show up in the boot lists with CSM
>>>> disabled
>>>>       because they did not contain any disks. If I insert the
>>>> Acronis/WinPE
>>>>       rescue disk before booting into BIOS, then the DVD drive shows
>>>> up as
>>>>       "UEFI: Pioneer BD-RW BDR-209M" because that disk contains the
>>>>       directory \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi. Same for a Windows 10
>>>> Recovery thumb
>>>>       drive I made for a different computer, for booting into the WinRE
>>>>       environment. It shows up in the boot device list as
>>>>       "UEFI: SanDisk Ultra USB 3.0 Flash Drive” because it too contains
>>>>       \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi as I’ve verified.
>>>>
>>>>       So with CSM disabled, the ASUS UEFI Bios will examine all HD,
>>>> SSD,
>>>>       USB ports, and DVD drives, looking for UEFI bootable devices that
>>>>       contain \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks very much. CSM is disabled, but we couldn't find a way to
>>> enable it. Can you tell me how to do it?
>>>
>>>
>>> So apparently the problem is that since CSM is disabled, the DVD in
>>> the drive must not contain \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi, and that's why it's
>>> not a choice for boot order.
>>>
>>> Perhaps I created the DVD incorrectly. Unless you can tell me how to
>>> enable CSM, can you tell me to do it properly on my old computer, so
>>> it can have \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi and boot and restore the system
>>> image that is on the external USB drivve?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>       In contrast, if CSM is enabled then all devices show up
>>>> whether or
>>>>       not they contain \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi.
>>>
>>>
>>> Even if the drive has no DVD in it? That sounds like it's the way it
>>> should be. Is there any disadvantage to having CSM enabled and
>>> keeping it that way, assuming that I can find a way to do it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>       With CSM enabled you will then see two versions for example
>>>>       "P3: Pioneer BD-RW BDR-209M" and "UEFI: Pioneer BD-RW BDR-209M",
>>>>       giving you a choice of booting to the device with a Legacy
>>>> BIOS boot
>>>>       or a UEFI boot. The Legacy boot will not use the
>>>> \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi
>>>>       boot application, but will instead use the application named
>>>> bootmgr.
>>>>
>>>>       So I can in fact leave CSM disabled and install Windows, and
>>>> if I ever
>>>>       need to boot from an Acronis rescue disk or a Windows Recovery
>>>> thumb
>>>>       drive, I can either press "F2" or "DEL" and boot into bios and
>>>> select
>>>>       the device from the "Boot Override" list, or spam the "F8" key
>>>> during
>>>>       boot after the ROG logo appears, to bring up the
>>>>       "Please Select Boot Device” menu which will list all devices
>>>> containing
>>>>       \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi.
>>>>
>>>>       If I ever need to boot from a non-UEFI compliant device that
>>>> does not
>>>>       contain \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi then I'd have to enable CSM
>>>> first if
>>>>       possible (and probably have to disable Secure Boot). That is my
>>>>       understanding.
>>>>
>>>>       CSM IS ENABLED BY DEFAULT, so people who want a pure UEFI boot
>>>> system
>>>>       will want to disable CSM before installing the OS.
>>>>      "
>>>
>>> But it wasn't enabled by default, unless it somehow got turned off
>>> without our realizing that it did or knowing why it happened.
>>>
>>> Do I need a pure UEFI boot system for Windows 11?
>>
>> Well, it's a new system, with a pretty cranky looking UEFI design :-)
>> It will require the usual experiments.
>>
>> The Secure Boot setting might well be the one causing the most problem.
>> It looks like that setting will be causing grief for mixed mode booting
>> purposes.
>>
>> Chapter 9.1 has Compatibility Support Module as its topic.
>> It looks like classes of storage devices can be assigned
>> a policy.
>>
>> Launch CSM [Enabled]                         # or the other settings
>> won't work
>>
>> Boot Device Control [UEFI and Legacy OPROM]
>>
>> Boot from Network Devices [Ignore]           # for stuff like PXE perhaps
>>
>> Boot from Storage Devices [Legacy Only]      # best of a bad situation
>>
>> Boot from PCI-E/PCI expansion [UEFI Only]    # Boot Win11 from NVMe sled
>>
>> *******
>>
>> This is really not a very good situation at all,
>> because booting the DVD in Legacy Mode, won't
>> allow a UEFI install to be done. The DVD would
>> have to be booted in UEFI mode. If we set the
>> Storage Devices (SATA) to Legacy, then some older
>> OSes might happen to be booted that way, but not
>> all.
>>
>> Microsoft DVDs prepared by MediaCreationTool, will be
>> hybrid, and can be booted in either mode. However,
>> the "stated policies" of Windows 11, mean that Microsoft
>> no longer has a need to make hybrid media. They could
>> easily just do UEFI media. Which then forces you to
>> set "Boot from Storage Devices" to [UEFI Only], and
>> that pretty well dooms the machine to never using
>> CSM at all.
>>
>> Having these selections is pure silly crap. The
>> older approach scanned all devices, put them in the
>> menu for better or worse. But at least the previous
>> mechanism meant very few trips to the UEFI screen
>> to change stuff.
>>
>> It's obvious this is intended to have the user
>> just switch this shit off entirely and have a
>> "pure as the driven snow, useless boot choice" situation.
>> Like imagine I wanted to dual boot Linux on this
>> bucket of bolts - this interface would drive me nuts.
>> I would be in there constantly, hammering stuff.
>>
>> Microsoft themselves could not have dreamed up a
>> more dreary set of choices. Think how many meetings
>> they sat in "to check we're screwing the users enough".
>>
>> This might also be the reason the BIOS section was
>> put in a separate PDF, so it would take more effort
>> to discover the facts.
>>
>> If you wanted to avoid "UEFI and Secure Boot" entirely,
>> maybe that's what the choices are for ? But then, once
>> Windows 11 comes along, you'll be put through the
>> wringer by these dreary settings.
>
>
> Thanks very much again. if we can, we'll set the CSM to enabled, restore
> the system image, then set it back to disabled.
>
>

Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2021-09-06 9:16 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:

>> Thanks very much again. if we can, we'll set the CSM to enabled,
>> restore the system image, then set it back to disabled.
>
> After reading Paul's post I had a look at mine which is how it came from
> the factory, this will give you some more insight, This has always
> worked as is giving me the double listings, it is also working in
> Windows 11.
>
> CSM
> Launch CSM Enabled
>
> Boot device control UEFI and legacy
> OPROM
>
> Boot from network devices Legacy only
>
> Boot from storage devices Legacy only
>
> Boot from PCI and expansion devices Legacy only
>
>
> This is how it came and works in Win 10 and Win 11 so I have made no
> changes, your setup may be different, this is only an example. There are
> so many other options that may also work.
>
> Rene

OK, with those choices, does it find all the
drives and such when it scans ?

I think Kens complaint was that not enough
devices were showing up as boot candidates.

I take it all back, if there is some combination
of those settings, that allows all storage items
including USB sticks, to show in an F8 menu. Then
you have something to work with. If it's going to
be cranky all the time, and slicing the problem
along the wrong dimension on you, this isn't going
to make the thing much fun to use.

When I do setups on disks here, one of my "requirements"
is that I do not need to enter the BIOS, every time
I boot. Some combination of settings on the machine,
are such that no matter which drive I plug in, it
boots without additional fuss. I could not meet
that objective, putting WinXP on the new machine,
so that one was a fail for me. There was no WinXP
driver provided with the hardware.

If magically, my best machine supported the booting
of Windows 11 (it has no TPM or fTPM), I still think
it might have a problem with the Secure Boot setting.
But I guess it does not matter now, seeing as Windows 11
won't be running on there.

Paul

On 9/6/2021 9:53 AM, Paul wrote:
> Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>> On 2021-09-06 9:16 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>
>>> Thanks very much again. if we can, we'll set the CSM to enabled,
>>> restore the system image, then set it back to disabled.
>>
>> After reading Paul's post I had a look at mine which is how it came from
>> the factory, this will give you some more insight, This has always
>> worked as is giving me the double listings, it is also working in
>> Windows 11.
>>
>> CSM
>> Launch CSM Enabled
>>
>> Boot device control UEFI and legacy
>> OPROM
>>
>> Boot from network devices Legacy only
>>
>> Boot from storage devices Legacy only
>>
>> Boot from PCI and expansion devices Legacy only
>>
>>
>> This is how it came and works in Win 10 and Win 11 so I have made no
>> changes, your setup may be different, this is only an example. There are
>> so many other options that may also work.
>>
>> Rene
>
> OK, with those choices, does it find all the
> drives and such when it scans ?
>
> I think Kens complaint was that not enough
> devices were showing up as boot candidates.

Right.

I may have a good update in a couple of hours. I'll post back with more
info later.

> I take it all back, if there is some combination
> of those settings, that allows all storage items
> including USB sticks, to show in an F8 menu. Then
> you have something to work with. If it's going to
> be cranky all the time, and slicing the problem
> along the wrong dimension on you, this isn't going
> to make the thing much fun to use.
>
> When I do setups on disks here, one of my "requirements"
> is that I do not need to enter the BIOS, every time
> I boot. Some combination of settings on the machine,
> are such that no matter which drive I plug in, it
> boots without additional fuss. I could not meet
> that objective, putting WinXP on the new machine,
> so that one was a fail for me. There was no WinXP
> driver provided with the hardware.
>
> If magically, my best machine supported the booting
> of Windows 11 (it has no TPM or fTPM), I still think
> it might have a problem with the Secure Boot setting.
> But I guess it does not matter now, seeing as Windows 11
> won't be running on there.
>
> Paul
>

--
Ken

On 2021-09-06 3:01 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
> On 9/6/2021 9:53 AM, Paul wrote:
>> Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-06 9:16 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>
>>>> Thanks very much again. if we can, we'll set the CSM to enabled,
>>>> restore the system image, then set it back to disabled.
>>>
>>> After reading Paul's post I had a look at mine which is how it came
>>> from the factory, this will give you some more insight, This has
>>> always worked as is giving me the double listings, it is also working
>>> in Windows 11.
>>>
>>> CSM
>>> Launch CSM                                              Enabled
>>>
>>> Boot device control                                    UEFI and
>>> legacy OPROM
>>>
>>> Boot from network devices                        Legacy only
>>>
>>> Boot from storage devices                          Legacy only
>>>
>>> Boot from PCI and expansion devices        Legacy only
>>>
>>>
>>> This is how it came and works in Win 10 and Win 11 so I have made no
>>> changes, your setup may be different, this is only an example. There
>>> are so many other options that may also work.
>>>
>>> Rene
>>
>> OK, with those choices, does it find all the
>> drives and such when it scans ?
>>
>> I think Kens complaint was that not enough
>> devices were showing up as boot candidates.
>
>
>
> Right.
>
> I may have a good update in a couple of hours. I'll post back with more
> info later.
>
>
>> I take it all back, if there is some combination
>> of those settings, that allows all storage items
>> including USB sticks, to show in an F8 menu. Then
>> you have something to work with. If it's going to
>> be cranky all the time, and slicing the problem
>> along the wrong dimension on you, this isn't going
>> to make the thing much fun to use.
>>
>> When I do setups on disks here, one of my "requirements"
>> is that I do not need to enter the BIOS, every time
>> I boot. Some combination of settings on the machine,
>> are such that no matter which drive I plug in, it
>> boots without additional fuss. I could not meet
>> that objective, putting WinXP on the new machine,
>> so that one was a fail for me. There was no WinXP
>> driver provided with the hardware.
>>
>> If magically, my best machine supported the booting
>> of Windows 11 (it has no TPM or fTPM), I still think
>> it might have a problem with the Secure Boot setting.
>> But I guess it does not matter now, seeing as Windows 11
>> won't be running on there.
>>
>>      Paul
>>
>
>
Some how a couple posts did not show up but I see them on followups.

Yes ,I see all devices in the F8 menu, double entry's for most, UEFI and
legacy, and they all boot both ways.
I just checked my Sons machine and his setup is the same with the
exception of Boot from storage deices which is set to UEFI and Legacy,
and his F8 menu also works Fine.

CSM has been enabled on both machines since day one so I have never
changed them.

Rene

On 9/6/2021 2:05 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2021-09-06 3:01 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 9/6/2021 9:53 AM, Paul wrote:
>>> Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>> On 2021-09-06 9:16 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Thanks very much again. if we can, we'll set the CSM to enabled,
>>>>> restore the system image, then set it back to disabled.
>>>>
>>>> After reading Paul's post I had a look at mine which is how it came
>>>> from the factory, this will give you some more insight, This has
>>>> always worked as is giving me the double listings, it is also working
>>>> in Windows 11.
>>>>
>>>> CSM
>>>> Launch CSM                                              Enabled
>>>>
>>>> Boot device control                                    UEFI and
>>>> legacy OPROM
>>>>
>>>> Boot from network devices                        Legacy only
>>>>
>>>> Boot from storage devices                          Legacy only
>>>>
>>>> Boot from PCI and expansion devices        Legacy only
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is how it came and works in Win 10 and Win 11 so I have made no
>>>> changes, your setup may be different, this is only an example. There
>>>> are so many other options that may also work.
>>>>
>>>> Rene
>>>
>>> OK, with those choices, does it find all the
>>> drives and such when it scans ?
>>>
>>> I think Kens complaint was that not enough
>>> devices were showing up as boot candidates.
>>
>>
>>
>> Right.
>>
>> I may have a good update in a couple of hours. I'll post back with more
>> info later.
>>
>>
>>> I take it all back, if there is some combination
>>> of those settings, that allows all storage items
>>> including USB sticks, to show in an F8 menu. Then
>>> you have something to work with. If it's going to
>>> be cranky all the time, and slicing the problem
>>> along the wrong dimension on you, this isn't going
>>> to make the thing much fun to use.
>>>
>>> When I do setups on disks here, one of my "requirements"
>>> is that I do not need to enter the BIOS, every time
>>> I boot. Some combination of settings on the machine,
>>> are such that no matter which drive I plug in, it
>>> boots without additional fuss. I could not meet
>>> that objective, putting WinXP on the new machine,
>>> so that one was a fail for me. There was no WinXP
>>> driver provided with the hardware.
>>>
>>> If magically, my best machine supported the booting
>>> of Windows 11 (it has no TPM or fTPM), I still think
>>> it might have a problem with the Secure Boot setting.
>>> But I guess it does not matter now, seeing as Windows 11
>>> won't be running on there.
>>>
>>>      Paul
>>>
>>
>>
> Some how a couple posts did not show up but I see them on followups.
>
> Yes ,I see all devices in the F8 menu, double entry's for most, UEFI and
> legacy, and they all boot both ways.
> I just checked my Sons machine and his setup is the same with the
> exception of Boot from storage deices which is set to UEFI and Legacy,
> and his F8 menu also works Fine.
>
>
> CSM has been enabled on both machines since day one so I have never
> changed them.

It's been a few days of trying several thing, but finally we used
acronis to make a system image of the old C: drive, and restore it on
the new one.

All is now working, and everything is great. Much faster than the old
machine.

Once again, thanks for everyone's help in getting here.

--
Ken

On 2021-09-08 7:05 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
> On 9/6/2021 2:05 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>> On 2021-09-06 3:01 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On 9/6/2021 9:53 AM, Paul wrote:
>>>> Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-09-06 9:16 a.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks very much again. if we can, we'll set the CSM to enabled,
>>>>>> restore the system image, then set it back to disabled.
>>>>>
>>>>> After reading Paul's post I had a look at mine which is how it came
>>>>> from the factory, this will give you some more insight, This has
>>>>> always worked as is giving me the double listings, it is also
>>>>> working in Windows 11.
>>>>>
>>>>> CSM
>>>>> Launch CSM                                              Enabled
>>>>>
>>>>> Boot device control                                    UEFI and
>>>>> legacy OPROM
>>>>>
>>>>> Boot from network devices                        Legacy only
>>>>>
>>>>> Boot from storage devices                          Legacy only
>>>>>
>>>>> Boot from PCI and expansion devices        Legacy only
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is how it came and works in Win 10 and Win 11 so I have made
>>>>> no changes, your setup may be different, this is only an example.
>>>>> There are so many other options that may also work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rene
>>>>
>>>> OK, with those choices, does it find all the
>>>> drives and such when it scans ?
>>>>
>>>> I think Kens complaint was that not enough
>>>> devices were showing up as boot candidates.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Right.
>>>
>>> I may have a good update in a couple of hours. I'll post back with
>>> more info later.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I take it all back, if there is some combination
>>>> of those settings, that allows all storage items
>>>> including USB sticks, to show in an F8 menu. Then
>>>> you have something to work with. If it's going to
>>>> be cranky all the time, and slicing the problem
>>>> along the wrong dimension on you, this isn't going
>>>> to make the thing much fun to use.
>>>>
>>>> When I do setups on disks here, one of my "requirements"
>>>> is that I do not need to enter the BIOS, every time
>>>> I boot. Some combination of settings on the machine,
>>>> are such that no matter which drive I plug in, it
>>>> boots without additional fuss. I could not meet
>>>> that objective, putting WinXP on the new machine,
>>>> so that one was a fail for me. There was no WinXP
>>>> driver provided with the hardware.
>>>>
>>>> If magically, my best machine supported the booting
>>>> of Windows 11 (it has no TPM or fTPM), I still think
>>>> it might have a problem with the Secure Boot setting.
>>>> But I guess it does not matter now, seeing as Windows 11
>>>> won't be running on there.
>>>>
>>>>      Paul
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Some how a couple posts did not show up but I see them on followups.
>>
>> Yes ,I see all devices in the F8 menu, double entry's for most, UEFI and
>> legacy, and they all boot both ways.
>> I just checked my Sons machine and his setup is the same with the
>> exception of Boot from storage deices which is set to UEFI and Legacy,
>> and his F8 menu also works Fine.
>>
>>
>> CSM has been enabled on both machines since day one so I have never
>> changed them.
>
>
> It's been a few days of trying several thing, but finally we used
> acronis to make a system image of the old C: drive, and restore it on
> the new one.
>
> All is now working, and everything is great. Much faster than the old
> machine.
>
> Once again, thanks for everyone's help in getting here.
>
>

Good work! your patience and perseverance paid of, I knew you could do
it, you just needed a little time to navigate some pretty rough waters. :-)

Rene