sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> asked
> What happened was that those apps were using undocumented APIs that
> became unavailable, so the apps no longer functioned and hence were removed.

Thank you for that explanation which fits the facts (unlike nospam's
desperate ploy to blame everyone but Apple for missing functionality).

1. Apparently these useful apps existed & used certain Apple APIs
2. Apple then declared those API's private (and hence unavailable)
3. Apps stopped working (hence they were then removed from the App Store)

If that's true, then...
a. No new apps can be added to the app store until Apple documents the API.
b. If Apple doesn't document the API, then it's Apple who cripples iPhones.

> Perhaps the issue was not really with those specific apps, but because
> those APIs presented security threats from other apps that could use
> them. You will never find out the actual reasons.

The fact remains that _all_ other operating systems found a way to coexist
with these graphical wifi debuggers _except_ for the iOS operating system.

Knowing these apps existed in the past, and knowing that they were removed
by Apple, tells us a lot about _why_ it's only iOS crippled this way.

This answer may be the same answer to the similar functionality questions
Why does the crippled iOS lacks *wifi graphical debuggers*?
Why does the crippled iOS lacks *cellular graphical debuggers*?
Why does the crippled iOS lack *automatic call recorder* tools?
Why does the crippled iOS lack the FOSS *secure tor browser*?
Why does the crippled iOS lack *encryption container* tools?
Why does the crippled iOS lack system wide FOSS *firewalls*?
Why does the crippled iOS lack the ability to set an *app launcher*?
Why does the crippled iOS lack default *gps spoofing* privacy?
Why does the crippled iOS lack the ability to not *force an account*?
Why does the crippled iOS lack free FOSS powerful *youtube clones*?
Why does the crippled iOS lack historical *IPA backup* tools?
Why does the crippled iOS lack system wide FOSS *ad blocking* tools?
etcetera

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
>> You will never find out the actual reasons.
>
> you certainly won't, because you're just spewing nonsense.
>
> others have.

There is so much functionality on _all_ other operating systems that is
_not_ on iOS that it must be something Apple does to cripple iOS so bad.

Based on what Michael Logies, sms, & RabidHussar provided, it seems we now
know why the rather useful graphical debuggers are not on the crippled iOS.

We also know that the privacy of the Tor Browser is impossible on iOS,
again, because Apple won't allow that privacy to exist on the iPhone.

The question is _why_ do all other operating systems seem to figure out how
to give the user both privacy & functionality - and yet - iOS is crippled?

Why is it _only_ iOS, for example, that can't have the privacy of the TBB?

RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> asked
> I never thought that I'd have a use for such an application until I
> started living in a town house where every one of my neighbours has
> wifi, wifi pods (extenders) or a mesh.

In my neighborhood in the Santa Cruz Mountains of California, we don't have
cable service yet so we're all on WISP and our properties are 40 acre zoned
(that means you can't put two houses on 79 acres - you can only put one).

This means we have antennas everywhere, to the barn, the stable, the shed,
the pool, the driveway gate, the road gate, etc. where debuggers are useful.

In addition, we have cellular repeaters, cellular femtocells (aka
microcells), and wi-fi-calling capable routers, the placement of all of
which benefit from these graphical wifi and cellular debugging tools.

None of these tiny cellular towers are going to be on Internet databases.
This is again where the iPhone is crippled as it can't tell you anything.

We've been using these debuggers on all tools other than on iOS for years.
The ones I recommend are always ad free, and usually gsf & google free.

This one, for example, does both cellular and wi-fi graphical debugging.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=make.more.r2d2.cellular_z

But others exist which are ad free & gsf free for wifi graphical debugging.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vrem.wifianalyzer
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.manageengine.wifimonitor
etcetera

Note that Google changed the API's in Android 6 and up to require GPS
location for these debuggers to work, even as they don't need location.

The simple solution to that problem is to run GPS spoofing by default, where
I've tested all the fake gps location apps on Android & iOS to find (yet
again), working apps don't exist on iOS but they exist in droves on Android.

This is the free ad free fake GPS location app I use on Android the most.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lexa.fakegps

This privacy based use model is impossible on the crippled iOS platform.

What I do is keep the fake gps running pushing me about in a westward
randomization which resets each night to a given location to start anew.

The LOCATION radio is off, by default (even as the fake GPS is on by
default), and the only time I need to change anything is when I want to use
the wifi debuggers. I then turn on the LOCATION radio, and that's it.

If I ever need a correct GPS location, I just pause the GPS spoofer.

I also don't have _any_ account on my phone (nothing to the mother ship!).
And yet, even sans any account, I have all this functionality, and more.

Note this kind of privacy is impossible on the crippled iOS platform.

It's not a question of whether the iPhone is a crippled platform or not.
The main question is what or who is it that cripples the iPhone so much?

On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 11:01:06 -0400, Alan Baker
<notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

>> Years ago the situation was different, such apps were available. But
>> Apple killed them in its store, claiming, they would use an
>> undocumented API.
>
>Cite, please!

https://www.iphonehacks.com/2010/03/apple-bans-wifi-stumbler-iphone-apps-blames-use-of-private-apis.html

On 2021-08-31 2:56 p.m., Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> asked
>> I never thought that I'd have a use for such an application until I
>> started living in a town house where every one of my neighbours has
>> wifi, wifi pods (extenders) or a mesh.
>
> In my neighborhood in the Santa Cruz Mountains of California, we don't have
> cable service yet so we're all on WISP and our properties are 40 acre zoned
> (that means you can't put two houses on 79 acres - you can only put one).

So you ARE "Arlen Holder" attempting to avoid all the killfiles once again!

In article <sglu05$cdk$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Robin Goodfellow
<Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> wrote:

> I also don't have _any_ account on my phone (nothing to the mother ship!).

you've admitted to creating google accounts.

google knows who you are, even if you later remove it.

In article <v3vsigl0i0bqula9cn4c89jic4o59cdlbu@4ax.com>, Michael Logies
<logies@t-online.de> wrote:

> >> Years ago the situation was different, such apps were available. But
> >> Apple killed them in its store, claiming, they would use an
> >> undocumented API.
> >
> >Cite, please!
>
>
> https://www.iphonehacks.com/2010/03/apple-bans-wifi-stumbler-iphone-apps-blame
> s-use-of-private-apis.html

that's more than 11 years old.

a *lot* has changed since then.

In article <sgluf8$bca$1@dont-email.me>, Alan Baker
<notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

> On 2021-08-31 2:56 p.m., Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> > In my neighborhood in the Santa Cruz Mountains of California, we don't have
> > cable service yet so we're all on WISP and our properties are 40 acre zoned
> > (that means you can't put two houses on 79 acres - you can only put one).
>
> So you ARE "Arlen Holder" attempting to avoid all the killfiles once again!

he's currently using a *lot* of nyms at the same time.

On 2021-08-31 2:20 p.m., nospam wrote:
> In article <hAtXI.7072$tG6.3820@fx39.iad>, RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar>
> wrote:
>
>> I have no idea if anyone here uses Google Pay, Apple Pay or any other
>> option but it seems like the least secure way to go.
>
> apple pay and google pay are by far the most secure payment methods
> currently available.

Good to know, I'll consider using it as an alternative.

>> As bad as a debit
>> or credit card are, a good proportion of their security issues can be
>> alleviated by acquiring an RFID blocker which prevents people from doing
>> a drive-by cloning of your cards (which is shockingly possible).
>
> not without being very close to the card, it isn't, and not all cards
> are contactless anyway.
>
>> If you
>> insist on adding a cell phone to the payment process, you're also adding
>> the security issues which come with either Android or iOS.
>
> nope. you obviously have zero understanding how mobile payments work.
>
> first of all, mobile payments uses industry standard emv, the same as
> any chipped or contactless card. any supposed security issue with ios
> or android is not relevant.
>
> second, the card number (dan) is unique per device and requires a
> one-time token (dcvv) that is unique per transaction and generated on
> the fly.
>
> the dan is encrypted and stored in the secure enclave with no way for
> an app to access it, but even if an app could somehow extract it, the
> app would also need to somehow generate a valid dcvv, which would
> require compromising the card issuer's systems and the credit card
> payment network itself.
>
> since the dan/dcvv are linked to the user's device, even if an app
> could somehow generate one, it won't work on a different mobile device
> nor will they work on a cloned card, which can't generate one-time
> dcvvs at all.
>
> lastly, if the store's payment system is compromised, any credit card
> numbers the bad guys might get are completely useless because they're
> device-specific and not the actual card number.
>
> put simply, mobile payments is as secure as it gets.
>
> compare that to when someone uses a credit card directly, the numbers
> obtained by a data breach *could* be usable, at least for a short time
> until the card number is voided and a replacement card issued.

Speaking as someone who isn't a stranger to his credit card credentials
being stolen, I am open to suggestions as to how to improve the security
around payment. It seems that there is somewhat of a consensus around
Google Pay so I'll begin using it.
>> I can't
>> imagine why Apple wouldn't want its users to have such a tool unless
>> they're preparing to deliver their own utility for this purpose and want
>> to make sure that there is no competition... which seems like the kind
>> of thing Apple would do.
>
> yet another myth which is easily busted.
>
> apple encourages third parties to create better apps than what apple
> provides, since it will generate additional revenue if it's sold in the
> app store and indirectly if not.
>
> there are *many* alternative mac & ios browsers, email apps and various
> other apps that compete with what apple bundles with the os or offers
> separately in the store (some of which are not free).

OK.

--
@RabidHussar

On 2021-08-31 2:20 p.m., nospam wrote:
> In article <sglq76$dug$1@dont-email.me>, sms
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> If someone steals your phone, they can't use mobile wallet unless they
>> can unlock your phone with a passcode, fingerprint, or face.
>
> if someone steals your phone, you can immediately invalidate all cards
> on it.
>
>> Also you
>> can't steal the NFC credit card data from a phone unless it's unlocked
>> with the payment app is open,
>
> there is no payment app to open with apple pay. yet another thing
> you've never used.
>
> but even if someone somehow obtained the card number, they won't be
> able to generate a dcvv one-time token to make purchases.

Honestly, I do appreciate the assurances that this form of payment is
more secure than what I'm used to. What I've been using for years in the
form of cards + RFID simply doesn't work for me and it's clearly time
for something better to take its place. I know that it's been around for
a while but I'm always very prudent in adopting new technology, no
matter how convenient or easy it might be.

--
@RabidHussar

On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 15:08:19 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>> https://www.iphonehacks.com/2010/03/apple-bans-wifi-stumbler-iphone-apps-blames-use-of-private-apis.html
>
>that's more than 11 years old.
>
>a *lot* has changed since then.

As I wrote: Apple`s decision took a lot of value away from my iOS
device, and I switched to Android and never felt inclined to go back
to apple.

My next move may be GrapheneOS, if the cameras of the Pixel 6 Pro are
good. For me the apple ecosystem has never been very attractive. For
my use cases, especially taking fotos, there are better/cheaper
alternatives (Pixel 3a, 4a are in use in my family, making great
pictures):
https://www.dxomark.com/rankings/#smartphones-mobile

I`m using Android, Windows, Linux on a daily basis, sometimes Chrome
OS (with Android- and Linux-Apps). iOS does not fit well in such an
environment, it`s too limited. (I have an iphone SE from a fire sale,
which I bought for fotos (worse than hoped) and later needed to
program my Airpods Pro, but I have no use for it besides being my
alarm clock in the bedroom.)

On 2021-08-31 2:56 p.m., Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> asked
>> I never thought that I'd have a use for such an application until I
>> started living in a town house where every one of my neighbours has
>> wifi, wifi pods (extenders) or a mesh.
>
> In my neighborhood in the Santa Cruz Mountains of California, we don't have
> cable service yet so we're all on WISP and our properties are 40 acre zoned
> (that means you can't put two houses on 79 acres - you can only put one).

That honesty sounds awesome to me. I would love to be so isolated from
everyone else around me. :)

> This means we have antennas everywhere, to the barn, the stable, the shed,
> the pool, the driveway gate, the road gate, etc. where debuggers are useful.

I'll just assume that your OTA television reception isn't too good,
being surrounded by mountains and all.

> In addition, we have cellular repeaters, cellular femtocells (aka
> microcells), and wi-fi-calling capable routers, the placement of all of
> which benefit from these graphical wifi and cellular debugging tools.
>
> None of these tiny cellular towers are going to be on Internet databases.
> This is again where the iPhone is crippled as it can't tell you anything.
>
> We've been using these debuggers on all tools other than on iOS for years.
> The ones I recommend are always ad free, and usually gsf & google free.
>
> This one, for example, does both cellular and wi-fi graphical debugging.
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=make.more.r2d2.cellular_z
>
> But others exist which are ad free & gsf free for wifi graphical debugging.
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vrem.wifianalyzer
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.manageengine.wifimonitor
> etcetera
>
> Note that Google changed the API's in Android 6 and up to require GPS
> location for these debuggers to work, even as they don't need location.
>
> The simple solution to that problem is to run GPS spoofing by default, where
> I've tested all the fake gps location apps on Android & iOS to find (yet
> again), working apps don't exist on iOS but they exist in droves on Android.
>
> This is the free ad free fake GPS location app I use on Android the most.
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lexa.fakegps
>
> This privacy based use model is impossible on the crippled iOS platform.
>
> What I do is keep the fake gps running pushing me about in a westward
> randomization which resets each night to a given location to start anew.
>
> The LOCATION radio is off, by default (even as the fake GPS is on by
> default), and the only time I need to change anything is when I want to use
> the wifi debuggers. I then turn on the LOCATION radio, and that's it.
>
> If I ever need a correct GPS location, I just pause the GPS spoofer.
>
> I also don't have _any_ account on my phone (nothing to the mother ship!).
> And yet, even sans any account, I have all this functionality, and more.
>
> Note this kind of privacy is impossible on the crippled iOS platform.
>
> It's not a question of whether the iPhone is a crippled platform or not.
> The main question is what or who is it that cripples the iPhone so much?

I've already determined that I'm not a fan of Apple's walled garden even
though I admire the way that they push innovation compared to everyone
else. The adoption of the M1 was a brilliant move as was the creation of
the iPhone and the iPod before it but what's even more admirable about
the way the company operates is how it can guarantee that Apple products
will work properly with one another. If only Microsoft-based products
worked that well...

--
@RabidHussar

In message <310820211508194322%nospam@nospam.invalid> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <v3vsigl0i0bqula9cn4c89jic4o59cdlbu@4ax.com>, Michael Logies
> <logies@t-online.de> wrote:

>> >> Years ago the situation was different, such apps were available. But
>> >> Apple killed them in its store, claiming, they would use an
>> >> undocumented API.
>> >
>> >Cite, please!
>>
>>
>> https://www.iphonehacks.com/2010/03/apple-bans-wifi-stumbler-iphone-apps-blame
>> s-use-of-private-apis.html

> that's more than 11 years old.

> a *lot* has changed since then.

And they WERE using private APIs that they were not supposed to be
using.

--
TYPOS AR EHT FAULT OF GIN
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

On 8/31/2021 10:54 AM, RabidHussar wrote:

<snip>

> If there is a consensus around the fact that paying through the cell
> phone is more secure, I'll have to adopt it. My instincts say that it
> isn't for the reasons I've highlighted in my preceding message but I'd
> be happy to be wrong and to learn that added convenience is also added
> security.

Another reason is that many credit cards give higher cash back for
mobile wallet purchases versus card purchases. I have one card that's 3%
for mobile wallet versus 1% for card, and one that's 2% for mobile
wallet versus 1% for card.

I never accepted an Apple Card because it's not a very good card in
terms of other benefits, and because it's a Mastercard which is not as
widely accepted as Visa, but it is 2% for mobile wallet versus 1% for card.

See my document on credit card suggestions at
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/17YbETbGHNWLZO5yBEVMQRFRw4_5EOCTQboNTEI86RmQ>

You can make your wallet a lot thinner by only carrying a minimum number
of physical cards so if it gets stolen it's a lot less hassle.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26 iOS Features Some of Which [many] Android Users Wish they Had
111 Android Features Some of Which [many] iOS Users Wish they Had

<https://tinyurl.com/fzje7h9e> or
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE>

41 Pages of Extensively Referenced Information with Hundreds of
Citations

✓ 100% Fact Checked ✓
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 2021-08-31 4:14 p.m., sms wrote:
> On 8/31/2021 10:54 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> If there is a consensus around the fact that paying through the cell
>> phone is more secure, I'll have to adopt it. My instincts say that it
>> isn't for the reasons I've highlighted in my preceding message but I'd
>> be happy to be wrong and to learn that added convenience is also added
>> security.
>
> Another reason is that many credit cards give higher cash back for
> mobile wallet purchases versus card purchases. I have one card that's 3%
> for mobile wallet versus 1% for card, and one that's 2% for mobile
> wallet versus 1% for card.
>
> I never accepted an Apple Card because it's not a very good card in
> terms of other benefits, and because it's a Mastercard which is not as
> widely accepted as Visa, but it is 2% for mobile wallet versus 1% for card.
>
> See my document on credit card suggestions at
> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/17YbETbGHNWLZO5yBEVMQRFRw4_5EOCTQboNTEI86RmQ>
>
>
> You can make your wallet a lot thinner by only carrying a minimum number
> of physical cards so if it gets stolen it's a lot less hassle.

As soon as I'm done with my work meeting, I'll pass by a convenience
store and try out the mobile payment for the first time. I've resisted
it for long for fear of the security issues but nospam did a good job of
explaining it and, to be honest, it truly does appear to be a much
better option than taking out the card every time. Like you said,
thinning the wallet would be a nice bonus as well.

--
@RabidHussar

In article <sgm2j7$99u$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Another reason is that many credit cards give higher cash back for
> mobile wallet purchases versus card purchases.

actually, very few cards bonus mobile wallet use.

although rare, in some cases a mobile wallet purchase loses its
category and ends up being the standard 'everything' category, which
means using a mobile wallet is *worse*. as i said it's rare, but it
does sometimes happen and there's no way to know until *after* the
purchase has been made.

> I have one card that's 3%
> for mobile wallet versus 1% for card, and one that's 2% for mobile
> wallet versus 1% for card.

that 3% mobile wallet card has a $400 annual fee, a rather important
detail you are failing to mention.

> I never accepted an Apple Card because it's not a very good card in
> terms of other benefits,

that's highly subjective. for some people, it's a very good choice.

> and because it's a Mastercard which is not as
> widely accepted as Visa,

yes it is.

costco doesn't, but that's just one company.

a couple of years ago, kroger refused to accept visa. they've since
resolved that.

<https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/08/01/kroger-ban-visa-credit-
card/881228002/>
Grocery chain Kroger plans to stop accepting Visa credit cards later
this month at about two dozen stores in California ­ and perhaps even
more locations. The ban stems from a beef over high fees, and that
could force customers to use cash or competing cards.

> but it is 2% for mobile wallet versus 1% for card.

apple card is 3% for apple store plus select merchants.

> See my document on credit card

which is full of inaccurate information.

On 8/31/2021 12:28 PM, RabidHussar wrote:

<snip>

> Honestly, I do appreciate the assurances that this form of payment is
> more secure than what I'm used to. What I've been using for years in the
> form of cards + RFID simply doesn't work for me and it's clearly time
> for something better to take its place. I know that it's been around for
> a while but I'm always very prudent in adopting new technology, no
> matter how convenient or easy it might be.

I was hesitant as well. What really convinced me to start using Apple
Pay and Google Pay was the credit card I got that gave me 3% cash back
on everything, but only on mobile wallet purchases. That's 50% higher
than any of my other cards. It's not a huge amount of money but it's
still a couple of hundred dollars a year that I'd rather have than not
have. Now I rarely use a physical card (only at stores like Home Depot,
Lowes, and Walmart).

Even though I use both Apple Pay and Google Pay, it's Samsung Pay, on a
Samsung MST equipped phone, that has been especially nice. We still have
a few stores around here that don't accept Apple Pay or Google Pay, but
where Samsung Pay works (MST simulates the magnetic stripe on a credit
card) and I've made some large purchases from those stores (two water
heaters for example). Unfortunately, three stores that somehow prevented
Samsung Pay from working are Home Depot, Lowes, and Walmart. It used to
work at all of them, but no more. In a few years the mag-stripe readers
will be gone and MST will offer no advantages, and Samsung already
removed it from the Galaxy S21 line.

nospam is wrong of course™ about there not being an app. It's called
Apple Wallet, see
<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/apple-wallet/id1160481993>. It will
automatically launch, and pay with card you have set as the default
credit card, when you hold the unlocked phone up to the payment
terminal, but you may want to open the app manually and select a
particular credit card depending on the merchant. For example you may
want to use the Apple Credit Card at an Apple store to get 3% cash back
and 0% financing, but you can't use it at Costco since Costco doesn't
take Mastercard. You may want to use a 3% cash back card at Costco
instead of the 2% Costco Citibank Visa, except when you're purchasing a
big ticket item where you want the two years of extended warranty
instead of the extra 1% cash back.

The only store I really had a problem with paying with a phone is at a
store that Arlen/Robin/Dean/etc. is familiar with, Pool Guys in
Saratoga. I paid with Samsung Pay and it went right through but the
employee didn't believe that I had paid. I had to pay again with a
physical card then call my bank and explain the whole bizarre situation
and get the mobile payment charge removed.

If you ever go to China, forget about using a physical credit card, or
Apple Pay, Google Pay, or Samsung Pay. Everyone uses Alipay or WeChat
Pay, and if you try to pay with cash they sometimes don't know how to
handle it. Even the beggars accept mobile wallet payments. In Europe,
paying with your phone is the normal way to pay, and it's especially
useful with a U.S. credit card since you won't have to sign a receipt
since most U.S. credit cards don't support Chip & PIN with PIN priority.

On 8/31/2021 12:03 PM, Michael Logies wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 11:01:06 -0400, Alan Baker
> <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>
>>> Years ago the situation was different, such apps were available. But
>>> Apple killed them in its store, claiming, they would use an
>>> undocumented API.
>>
>> Cite, please!
>
> https://www.iphonehacks.com/2010/03/apple-bans-wifi-stumbler-iphone-apps-blames-use-of-private-apis.html

Good find. But what is still unclear is why Apple just didn't document
and publish the necessary APIs. It's not like those apps were doing
anything immoral or illegal.

In article <sgm4f0$m0m$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> sms is wrong of course about there being an app.

ftfy.

> It's called
> Apple Wallet, see
> <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/apple-wallet/id1160481993>.

the apple wallet app is not required to use apple pay.

it's usually used to add new cards, although that too is not required.

as always, you have *no* idea what you're talking about.

> It will
> automatically launch, and pay with card you have set as the default
> credit card, when you hold the unlocked phone up to the payment
> terminal,

there's no reason to unlock the phone and wait for an app to autolaunch
to use apple pay.

> but you may want to open the app manually and select a
> particular credit card depending on the merchant.

that also does not require using the wallet app.

stop pretending to know how things work, especially when they are so
easily debunked.

In article <sgm4ta$oh9$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> But what is still unclear is why Apple just didn't document
> and publish the necessary APIs.

because the apis were in flux.

microsoft, google and others have private apis.

> It's not like those apps were doing
> anything immoral or illegal.

some were, but that's irrelevant.

RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> asked
>> In my neighborhood in the Santa Cruz Mountains of California, we don't have
>> cable service yet so we're all on WISP and our properties are 40 acre zoned
>> (that means you can't put two houses on 79 acres - you can only put one).
>
> That honesty sounds awesome to me. I would love to be so isolated from
> everyone else around me. :)

It's good and bad being up in the mountains in the middle of nowhere.

We're 16 miles from the nearest gas station, and about 30 miles from the
Costco cheap ones, so we have to plan ahead on groceries. We all have our
own water wells and septic and propane and WISP utilities, since nothing
comes to us over the ground but power and telephone (just like in the
50s'!).

Speaking of power on the poles, our PG&E electric power goes out once a
month for about a day each over a period of five or six years, but lately
it's gone out twice a week for the entire month of August, so we have to get
good at dealing with spikes and backups and switching to the generators,
etc.

Luckily, our carrier gives all of us free cellular repeaters and/or
femtocells, so we can get cellular signal even with towers rather far away
although I must say that with 5G, we've had _fantastic_ signal up here!
https://i.postimg.cc/zf9w1tGZ/speedtest07.jpg

Also we get a _lot_ of tourists, bikers, hikers, and sightseers, who can't
seem to stay on their side of the road (there are no stripes as the roads
are legally too narrow for such amenities). Every once in a while we get to
watch the helicopters pull out the pot farm produce and we get to see the
big trucks winch a car back up from deep in the chaparral.

The good news is the airplanes fly _below_ us when they come in to land, and
the clouds are often below us too, so we get a lot of clean air & sunlight.

One thing we have in mountains is clear line of sight for hundreds of miles,
so we can "see" oh, maybe a thousand or two thousand access points with the
right equipment, and where my own access point is about 3 miles away or so.
https://i.postimg.cc/VvqLKQtQ/wifi.jpg

Given we have to get our Internet over the air somehow, we're all very good
at debugging our radios, where I don't know anyone on Android who doesn't
use these wifi debuggers a lot.
https://i.postimg.cc/4xgmTTgm/wifi01.jpg

And since we all have our own cellular towers inside our homes (I have two
of them since I have a big house), we also get good at cellular signal
debugging.
https://i.postimg.cc/Hn05bQwG/wifi02.jpg

With Cellular-Z, for example, I can see EXACTLY which cell I'm on:
https://i.postimg.cc/Gtywwn8f/signal01.jpg

And when I move around my two internal in-home towers, I can adjust things:
https://i.postimg.cc/xCbVQ2pj/signal02.jpg

None of this is possible with the crippled Apple iPhone ecosystem.
It's a toy OS that only people who play games seem to love.

>> This means we have antennas everywhere, to the barn, the stable, the shed,
>> the pool, the driveway gate, the road gate, etc. where debuggers are useful.
>
> I'll just assume that your OTA television reception isn't too good,
> being surrounded by mountains and all.

What we do is use the Internet and often "sticks" such as a Roku to get
whatever we want, although most of us had satellite TV & Dish TV in the
past.

At this point, with our Ubiquiti equipment, we have the full legal limit on
transmit and we have fantastic receiver sensitivity so we're doing OK for
now (we also have all the free noise waterfall curves that no phone has).

>> It's not a question of whether the iPhone is a crippled platform or not.
>> The main question is what or who is it that cripples the iPhone so much?
>
> I've already determined that I'm not a fan of Apple's walled garden even
> though I admire the way that they push innovation compared to everyone
> else.

You're joking right?
Apple? Innovation?

What? Removing the headphone jack? That's innovation?
<https://youtu.be/oJZuSVl5wjM>

Never having an sd card slot? That's innovation?
No FM radio? That's innovation?

The iPhone is a cripple (yes, I have plenty of iOS devices).
With iOS, you can't do even the simplest of the most basic things.

Like organize your homescreen the way _you_ want it organized.
https://i.postimg.cc/WpM4FM5t/web01.jpg

But more to the point, basic debugging with iOS doesn't even exist!
https://i.postimg.cc/3r0yNRcT/network02.jpg

The Apple iphone ecosystem will _always_ be crippled compared to Android.
The reason is very simple and has nothing to do with "innovation".

Apple drastically limits what the iPhone can do; Google can't.
It's that simple.

Apple doesn't innovate - Apple _advertises_ that they do.
But Apple has _never_ made a chip that wasn't unfixably flawed too.
https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+unfixable+chip+flaws

The _market_ determines the app functionality, not Apple or Google.
And the market _provides_ the innovation - not Apple or Google.

Hell, Apple has _never_ made an SOC that was even close to best in class.
Apple can't even make a simple modem for heavens sake.

And Apple can't even _integrate_ a modem into the rest of their SOC.
https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+can%27t+integrate+modem

Don't talk about innovation if you're getting it from a Jony Ive commercial.
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.internet.wireless/c/G72EDGvUiuE

Apple bullshits like nobody else can - so that's where you get "innovation".

*Nobody spends _less_ percentagewise than Apple in R&D* by the way. Nobody.
https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+spends+less+R%26D

That's "Apple's" bullshit innovation for you.
All _marketing_ and almost nothing in actual R&D.

Please don't use the word "innovation" please, when you're discussing what
amounts to a crippled device which can't do even the simplest of the most
basic stuff (such as debug wifi and cellular radios, which is the topic here
and which I do all the time but it can't be done on the crippled iPhones).

BTW, if you want some screenshots of how we debug in the mountains, see:
<https://i.postimg.cc/05S6CtNn/align03.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/0NYJn7mF/nanobridge-nanobeam.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/25NdBZ7f/horn-to-router.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/25v3FT6S/debug-on-android.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/6QJqK6Cj/desktop02.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/6QQ2Lt74/align02.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/905nFgxX/nanobeamnanobridge.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/bNMMZ0Nv/wifi-speed.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/Bv0wZbDh/pbe-m2-400-802-11-wifi-setting.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/BZrZpDyp/debug-apps.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/cHLndnbY/antenna.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/CLBXc080/antenna03.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/D0vfqM3p/horns.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/DfQJq437/mikrotikrouter.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/DZccY2YD/decibels.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/Dzq9Bsjs/pb-m2-400-nanobeam.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/FRqR6DSq/android-wifi-analyzer.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/gcBWpxnV/pbe-m2-400-bridge-router.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/Gh22Sb2N/desktop.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/GpCG1H3G/airviewneedsjava.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/Hs0NWSKr/laptopnanobeam.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/htQ469sQ/pbe-m2-400-ap-station.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/JhyCRT69/horn-to-switch.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/JzpthvTr/align04.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/kg5LKkz9/pbe-m2-400-airmax-setting.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrkz5mgs/antenna01.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/pLXCzFxC/powerbeam-nanobeam.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/QMNv5FBC/typical-range-ptp.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/s2c2L8Wd/mikrotik-router.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/sfkHW6WG/align.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/SK04C6zL/ubiquiti-bullet-M2-hp.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/tCxLW2ZN/align01.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/vT0Krpfc/laptop-nanobeam-horn.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/VvqLKQtQ/wifi.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/XJChDCPr/spare-access-points.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/yNXw0TZS/antenna02.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/YqTk0q1T/ap.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/yx4CgWYt/mikrotik-router-config.jpg>
<https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/rocketdish/rd_ds_web.pdf
<https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/rocketm/RocketM_DS.pdf

Try to do _any_ of that debugging with the crippled iPhone.

In message <sgm2j7$99u$1@dont-email.me> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 8/31/2021 10:54 AM, RabidHussar wrote:

> <snip>

>> If there is a consensus around the fact that paying through the cell
>> phone is more secure, I'll have to adopt it. My instincts say that it
>> isn't for the reasons I've highlighted in my preceding message but I'd
>> be happy to be wrong and to learn that added convenience is also added
>> security.

> Another reason is that many credit cards give higher cash back for
> mobile wallet purchases versus card purchases. I have one card that's 3%
> for mobile wallet versus 1% for card, and one that's 2% for mobile
> wallet versus 1% for card.

And that is because the mobile wallets are more secure than a physical
card.

--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
Brain: "You pondering what I'm pondering?" I asked Pinky on the sly.
"Well, I think so, Brain," he muttered. "But my feet taste better
buttered." Then I grimaced and I shuddered at his typical reply.

In message <310820211633260747%nospam@nospam.invalid> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <sgm2j7$99u$1@dont-email.me>, sms
>> I never accepted an Apple Card because it's not a very good card in
>> terms of other benefits,

> that's highly subjective. for some people, it's a very good choice.

3% on Apple purchases (and quite a lot of other purchases as well) and
cash back on every purchase is great. I have $45 in Apple Cash right now
that is just cash-back bonuses this month. When the new MacBook Pro
comes out (soon I hope) I will get a nice little bonus.

>> and because it's a Mastercard which is not as
>> widely accepted as Visa,

> yes it is.

There are a couple of places that I can't use a MasterCard.

> costco doesn't, but that's just one company.

Yes, but if you go to Costco it is rather a large company for you. I
usually spend about $300 at Costco each time I go, and that would add up
to a lot of apple cash if I could use my card since I go twice a month,
and sometimes I spend white a lot more, of course.

There's someone else I buy from on occasions that doesn't take MasterCard
either, but they are online. I find it weird.

> a couple of years ago, kroger refused to accept visa. they've since
> resolved that.

They lost a shit-ton of customers over that. *Everyone* has a Visa card.
Until the Apple Card we hadn't had a MasterCard in almost 20 years.

--
"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with
great pleasure." Clarence Darrow

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
> google knows who you are, even if you later remove it.

How?
Tell us something if you know how Google knows who we are.

My WISP changes my home IP address any time I ask him to.
My carrier is floating on the IP address too.
My location _never_ geolocates to my home.
And I use offline GPS unless/until I really _need_ Google Maps.
Even then, without a login, I'm just an IP address to Google.
I never use email on the phone (mainly because of typing).
Nor do I use the web (the phone is too small & hard to type).
And none of my apps are Google apps (e.g., my SMS/MMS isn't).
I don't have contacts in the sqlite contacts database.
And I don't use the Google phone or contacts or calendar anyway.
I never use Google Play (there's never a need to anyway).
And my phone is set up to _not_ upload nearby Access Points.
Also my access points are all hidden broadcast (as you're well aware).

Sometimes you know something that I don't know (maybe one time out of a
hundred, which makes you useful as those other Apple morons like Jolly
Roger, Lewis, Joerg, Alan Baker, Alan Browne, et. al don't even get 1 out of
100)... so tell me... please.

Pray tell... tell me...
*How does Google know who I am from my cellphone?*

In message <310820211703480057%nospam@nospam.invalid> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <sgm4f0$m0m$1@dont-email.me>, sms
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>> sms is wrong of course about there being an app.

> ftfy.

>> It's called
>> Apple Wallet, see
>> <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/apple-wallet/id1160481993>.

> the apple wallet app is not required to use apple pay.

> it's usually used to add new cards, although that too is not required.

> as always, you have *no* idea what you're talking about.

>> It will automatically launch

You are, as is quite usual, entirely wrong. While the UI for paying
looks similar to the Wallet app, it is not the wallet app. As is obvious
to anyone who actually pays the slightest attention.

>> and pay with card you have set as the default credit card, when you
>> hold the unlocked phone up to the payment terminal,

> there's no reason to unlock the phone and wait for an app to autolaunch
> to use apple pay.

It is very hard to believe that sms has ever used an iPhone, isn't it?

--
Someone's behind this. Someone wants to see a war. [...] I've got to
remember that. This isn't a war. This is a crime. --Jingo