>> cleared because they were stupid, but there were more people just trying to
>> get the American dream.

> nobody is forcing them to get those loans. they can also get grants and
oney
> rom other sources.

If they qualify for those sources.

> they can get into programs and get free training and certifi
> cation for skilled trades.

And make better money, too.

> i think going to school and getting a useless degree is a viable point.
> why go to school for something that will never work out? these people have
> no way of making enough money to pay back their loans.

+1. Doing this to try "to get the American dream" must be a sign that
their American dream is to live off of society and constantly complain
about how they've been done wrong.

* SLMR 2.1a * Remember, to a computer 1 + 1 = 10.

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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: Dr. What to MRO on Sat Jul 22 2023 08:20 am

> -=> MRO wrote to Arelor <=-
>
> MR> i don't really see 3k as a lot of money. vacations are something you
> MR> only do once in a while so why not be comfortable. otherwise, stay
> MR> home.
>
> It's not the amount. It's the prioritization.
>
> Taking out a 3K loan to get a new roof on your house is good prioritization.

3k pays for a new roof on a house? i don't think so
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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Sat Jul 22 2023 08:14 am

> Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
> By: Dr. What to MRO on Sat Jul 22 2023 08:20 am
>
> DW> People who take out loans for vacations are, for the most part,:
> DW> 1. poor planners
> DW> 2. have their priorities completely messed up
>
> I really had never heard of people taking loans for vacations until this
> came up here recently. I've never known anyone to say they've done that.
>

Maybe you don't really know a lot of people? I've worked with people that did 401k loans for vacations.

is a little bit of money a big deal?
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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: MRO to The Lizard Master on Fri Jul 21 2023 08:18 am

> i think going to school and getting a useless degree is a viable point.
> why go to school for something that will never work out? these people have
> no way of making enough money to pay back their loans.

Sure, you can find examples of this, and I can get the frustration.

---TLM

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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Jul 22 2023 11:51 am

MR> Maybe you don't really know a lot of people? I've worked with people that
MR> did 401k loans for vacations.

MR> is a little bit of money a big deal?

Depends on what you consider a little bit of money. But in general, borrowing money to do things is living beyond your means and generally doesn't seem like a good idea to me. "It's not a big deal" can get you into a trap of owing a lot of money if you do that too much.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Jul 22 2023 02:17 pm

> Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
> By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Jul 22 2023 11:51 am
>
> MR> Maybe you don't really know a lot of people? I've worked with people
> MR> that did 401k loans for vacations.
>
> MR> is a little bit of money a big deal?
>
> Depends on what you consider a little bit of money. But in general,
> borrowing money to do things is living beyond your means and generally
> doesn't seem like a good idea to me. "It's not a big deal" can get you into
> a trap of owing a lot of money if you do that too much.

okay but if it doesn't hurt you any and you can do it, it's not a big deal, right?

that's what i'm saying.
and i don't know of any places that will give you a lot of frequent loans.
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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: MRO to Arelor on Fri Jul 21 2023 08:08 am

> 15% is way high for a loan. where'd you get that number?

Just what some co-employees told me they have signed up.

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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: MRO to Arelor on Fri Jul 21 2023 08:12 am

> you're talking about a few thousand dollars like it's 10k and the people hav
FIirst of all, adjusting to the cost of living, paying 1000 dollar off in Spainis harder.

Secondly, when your free cashflow (after covering basic expenses) is 100 dollaror so, then 3k is a whole lot of money, and I am specifically talking about
people who has no saving power yet they get into all sorts of traps.

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-=> Nightfox wrote to Dr. What <=-

DW> People who take out loans for vacations are, for the most part,:
DW> 1. poor planners
DW> 2. have their priorities completely messed up

Ni> I really had never heard of people taking loans for vacations until
Ni> this came up here recently. I've never known anyone to say they've
Ni> done that.

I've known a few, but it's very rare for me too.

But the people that I associate with tend to live within their means.

.... Circular Definition: see Definition, Circular.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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> It's not the amount. It's the prioritization.

> Taking out a 3K loan to get a new roof on your house is good prioritization.
> Taking out a 3K loan for a vacation is bad prioritization.

> People who take out loans for vacations are, for the most part,:
> 1. poor planners
> 2. have their priorities completely messed up

+ 1

* SLMR 2.1a * Working hard to become roadkill on the Infobahn.

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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: Gamgee to Nightfox on Wed Jul 19 2023 09:13 pm

> I think that's all correct. It's also a sign of those countries being
> much more receptive to the ideas/beliefs of socialism, which is
> generally not very well received here in the USA. Independence,
> freedom, and small government / small taxes are sort of a fundamental
> thing in America, and have been since .... 1776. ;-)

A communal mindset isn't only present in socialism.

Americans used to be very community-minded and eager to participate in civic life.
After all, why wouldn't you want your neighborhood to flourish? Why wouldn't you want
the best for the schools that educate your children, the city that they live in, and
the state they claim as their home?

People didn't join fraternities, industry-specific credit unions, and neighborhood councils
because they were stupid or communists -- they joined because, as in 1776, it makes the most
sense to join with people like you.

Hell, even the titans of industry collaborated and colluded all the time.
It's the most American thing there is, all the way back to "Join or Die".

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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Jul 22 2023 11:51 am

> Maybe you don't really know a lot of people? I've worked with people that
> did 401k loans for vacations.

Yikes!

---TLM

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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: The Lizard Master to MRO on Mon Jul 24 2023 01:07 pm

> Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
> By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Jul 22 2023 11:51 am
>
> > Maybe you don't really know a lot of people? I've worked with people
> > that did 401k loans for vacations.
>
> Yikes!
>

whats wrong with that? you just pay it back.
you're paying it back to yourself.
---
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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: MRO to The Lizard Master on Mon Jul 24 2023 08:37 pm

> > > Maybe you don't really know a lot of people? I've worked with people
> > > that did 401k loans for vacations.
>
> > Yikes!
>
>
> whats wrong with that? you just pay it back.
> you're paying it back to yourself.

Ton of reasons, you are paying back that loan with after tax dollars so you completely wipe out and lose out on probably the single biggest benefit of pretax dollars. Also if you have to take a loan out for a vacation from your retirement you are also probably more likely to default on yourself. It also depends on you keeping you current employer, you get fired you need to pay that back immediately.

Just not a great idea.

---TLM

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■ Synchronet ■ Nite Eyes BBS - To make people happy about my tagline everywhere...

-=> Margaerynne wrote to Gamgee <=-

Ma> Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
Ma> By: Gamgee to Nightfox on Wed Jul 19 2023 09:13 pm

> I think that's all correct. It's also a sign of those countries being
> much more receptive to the ideas/beliefs of socialism, which is
> generally not very well received here in the USA. Independence,
> freedom, and small government / small taxes are sort of a fundamental
> thing in America, and have been since .... 1776. ;-)

Ma> A communal mindset isn't only present in socialism.

Ma> Americans used to be very community-minded and eager to
Ma> participate in civic life.
Ma> After all, why wouldn't you want your neighborhood to flourish?
Ma> Why wouldn't you want
Ma> the best for the schools that educate your children, the city
Ma> that they live in, and
Ma> the state they claim as their home?

Ma> People didn't join fraternities, industry-specific credit
Ma> unions, and neighborhood councils
Ma> because they were stupid or communists -- they joined because,
Ma> as in 1776, it makes the most
Ma> sense to join with people like you.

Ma> Hell, even the titans of industry collaborated and colluded all
Ma> the time.
Ma> It's the most American thing there is, all the way back to "Join
Ma> or Die".

All true, and no argument from me on any of it.

Please remember, though, that the topic of discussion was basically that
Europeans are generally more receptive to socialism - as in who pays for
the "free stuff". College educations and the forgiving of student debt,
to be specific.

.... Socialist w/knife & fork seeks capitalist w/food.
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-=> MRO wrote to The Lizard Master <=-

MR> Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
MR> By: The Lizard Master to MRO on Mon Jul 24 2023 01:07 pm

> > Maybe you don't really know a lot of people? I've worked with people
> > that did 401k loans for vacations.

> Yikes!

MR> whats wrong with that? you just pay it back.
MR> you're paying it back to yourself.

Apparently you don't understand much about investing. Even the easy
parts like how interest accrues over time, and that reducing the
principal has a large effect on the total value that it will be worth in
20-30 years, even if you do "pay it back", which often/usually doesn't
happen. You lose money in the end.

.... The world is full of surprises, very few of which are pleasant.
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-=> MRO wrote to The Lizard Master <=-

> > that did 401k loans for vacations.
>
> Yikes!
>

MR> whats wrong with that? you just pay it back.
MR> you're paying it back to yourself.

And while you're paying it back, that money ISN'T earning interest, making your
401K less valuable.

.... Cross river *THEN* insult alligator.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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-=> Margaerynne wrote to Gamgee <=-

Ma> A communal mindset isn't only present in socialism.

Only a most disingenuous person would try to conflate socialism with being in a
community. But we've come to expect such things from you.

Ma> After all, why wouldn't you want your neighborhood to flourish? Why
Ma> wouldn't you want
Ma> the best for the schools that educate your children, the city that
Ma> they live in, and
Ma> the state they claim as their home?

People have been pooling their resources to make the whole community prosper
for a very long time. But such pooling is not socialist because everyone
involved is choosing the benefits over the drawbacks. Anyone who chooses may
elect to NOT participate or stop participating.

Under socialism, as you ignore, there is no choice. The State owns everything.
The State tells you what to do. You do not choose to participate and you
cannot choose to NOT participate. And, in many socialist societied, you could
not even choose to leave - especially if you were a productive person, because
socialist states tend to have few of these people.

Ma> People didn't join fraternities, industry-specific credit unions, and
Ma> neighborhood councils
Ma> because they were stupid or communists -- they joined because, as in

And, once again, conflating different ideas to push your agenda.

No one forces you join a frat or a credit union.

I don't know why neighboorhood councils even factors in to this. Those are
primarily for wannabe Elitists who want to tell others what do to.

Ma> 1776, it makes the most
Ma> sense to join with people like you.

Ahhh... Pushing the tribalism. Your masters would be impressed that you snuck
that one in.

They need to keep everyone in their own little groups to make it much easier to
control them. Divide and conquer.

Ma> Hell, even the titans of industry collaborated and colluded all the
Ma> time.

And, of course, the usual "rich men mad" tired old trope.

Socialists are the larval form of dictators. And they are **always** jealous
because others have far more ability than they ever have. So they have to keep
pushing to "pull everyone up", which is socialist-speak for "pulling everyone
down".

Ma> It's the most American thing there is, all the way back to "Join or
Ma> Die".

Which had nothing to do with socialism.

.... When a girl goes bad--men go right after her.
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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: Dr. What to MRO on Tue Jul 25 2023 07:35 am

> >> that did 401k loans for vacations.

>> Yikes!

MR>> whats wrong with that? you just pay it back. you're paying it back to
MR>> yourself.

DW> And while you're paying it back, that money ISN'T earning interest, making
DW> your 401K less valuable.

And just to pay for a vacation.. Not worth it. If I couldn't afford that, I'd just stay home for my vacation. Just taking time off work can still be good.

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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: The Lizard Master to MRO on Tue Jul 25 2023 07:44 am

> > whats wrong with that? you just pay it back.
> > you're paying it back to yourself.
>
> Ton of reasons, you are paying back that loan with after tax dollars so you
> completely wipe out and lose out on probably the single biggest benefit of
> pretax dollars. Also if you have to take a loan out for a vacation from your
> retirement you are also probably more likely to default on yourself. It also
> depends on you keeping you current employer, you get fired you need to pay
> that back immediately.
>

i think you don't know much about the subject and you are jumping to extreme conclusions. they will not let you take out a loan you can't pay off. there has to be some there to cover it.

> Just not a great idea.
>

that's your opinion. you've never done it, though.
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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: Dr. What to MRO on Tue Jul 25 2023 07:35 am

> -=> MRO wrote to The Lizard Master <=-
>
> > > that did 401k loans for vacations.
>
> > Yikes!
>
>
> MR> whats wrong with that? you just pay it back.
> MR> you're paying it back to yourself.
>
> And while you're paying it back, that money ISN'T earning interest, making
> your 401K less valuable.
>

big deal. i'm not saying do a full withdrawl. lighten up.
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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: Dr. What to Margaerynne on Tue Jul 25 2023 07:57 am

> -=> Margaerynne wrote to Gamgee <=-
>
> Ma> A communal mindset isn't only present in socialism.
>
> Only a most disingenuous person would try to conflate socialism with being
> in a community. But we've come to expect such things from you.
>

who's we? do you have a bird in your pocket?
margaerynne isn't really infamous for anything.
---
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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Tue Jul 25 2023 08:12 am

> Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
> By: Dr. What to MRO on Tue Jul 25 2023 07:35 am
>
> > >> that did 401k loans for vacations.
>
> >> Yikes!
>
> MR>> whats wrong with that? you just pay it back. you're paying it back
>
> to
> MR>> yourself.
>
> DW> And while you're paying it back, that money ISN'T earning interest,
> DW> making your 401K less valuable.
>
> And just to pay for a vacation.. Not worth it. If I couldn't afford
>
> that,
> I'd just stay home for my vacation. Just taking time off work can still be
> good.

you guys are a bunch of limp dicks. good thing we arent in the old bbs days and
have local meetups. you guys are boring.

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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: Nightfox to Dr. What on Sat Jul 22 2023 08:14 am

Ni> I really had never heard of people taking loans for vacations until this
Ni> came up here recently. I've never known anyone to say they've done that.

I know plenty of people who have. Whether that be an outright loan, or redrawing from your mortgage.

I personally haven't but to me it seems like it might be a better option than putting a $10k vacation on your credit card at 21% APR when you can't pay it back within the interest free period and people generally seem to have no qualms about doing that.

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Re: Re: Y'all or Ya'll?
By: Ewing to Nightfox on Wed Jul 26 2023 08:15 am

Ni>> I really had never heard of people taking loans for vacations until this
Ni>> came up here recently. I've never known anyone to say they've done that.

Ew> I know plenty of people who have. Whether that be an outright loan, or
Ew> redrawing from your mortgage.

Ew> I personally haven't but to me it seems like it might be a better option
Ew> than putting a $10k vacation on your credit card at 21% APR when you can't
Ew> pay it back within the interest free period and people generally seem to
Ew> have no qualms about doing that.

I've never put that much on a credit card for a vacation.. Any vacation I've taken, I've saved up for it beforehand.

Nightfox

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