Re: Eclipse travel
By: Ogg to MRO on Mon Apr 08 2024 06:54 pm

> Hello MRO!
>
> M> i was literally working outside during the eclipse. we saw a lot of
> M> people walk out of businesses and stare into the sun. -+-
>
> they weren't wearing the proper glasses? i guess their next
> trip will be to the eye doctor.
>

some were and some werent. they were holding their hands up and looking.

then i was by a cellphone tower and dude i was with said look at the tower. it's blocking the sun. there's a cool effect. and he was right. but then hours later i realized i sunburned my eyes.
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> DW> Not a bad plan. I learned from the last one that trying to travel on
> DW> the day of a eclipse is not a good idea -- urban style traffic jams out
> DW> in the middle of nowhere. ;)

> It ended up being cloudy here. Of course an hour after it the clouds all
> went away and it was a beautiful sunny evening. LOL

It clouded up here shortly after is started, too, but the clouds did break
long enough for a pretty good view of the crescent Sun. We were not going
to have totality here anyway.

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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Apr 08 2024 04:24 pm

> i dont even like taking off a lot. but pto you can use my the hour is
> great. you can take off early fridays, come in late when there's bad weather
> or whatever.

I don't take off much either... but since they got rid of PTO in my company, we can take off whenever we want... just tell the boss if you're going to be gone more than one or two days. I think it was done as an incentive to attract new workers.

So far I have not taken a day off this year... maybe tomorrow :)

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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: Bf2k+ to MRO on Wed Apr 10 2024 09:19 pm

Bf> I don't take off much either... but since they got rid of PTO in my
Bf> company, we can take off whenever we want... just tell the boss if you're
Bf> going to be gone more than one or two days. I think it was done as an
Bf> incentive to attract new workers.

How does that work? You say they got rid of PTO, so does that mean any time you take off is unpaid?

Nightfox

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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: Bf2k+ to MRO on Wed Apr 10 2024 09:19 pm

> want... just tell the boss if you're
> going to be gone more than one or tw
> days. I think it was done as an
> incentive to attract new workers.

Actually they did it because if you
don't accrue time off, they don't have
to pay it out when you leave.

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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: Nightfox to Bf2k+ on Thu Apr 11 2024 09:17 am

> How does that work? You say they go
> rid of PTO, so does that mean any ti
> you take off is unpaid?

They call it "unlimited".

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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: Nightfox to Bf2k+ on Thu Apr 11 2024 09:17 am

> How does that work? You say they got rid of PTO, so does that mean any time
> you take off is unpaid?

I assume they'r referring to what companies are calling "flex PTO" or "unlimited PTO". Netflix started this trend about 10 years ago where they don't have to carry the vacation pay "debt" to employees on their balance sheets (and thus can report more favorable financials in shareholder meetings, SEC reports, etc.) - if an employee leaves the company for any reason, the companies doesn't owe them any "vacation pay". But the time they do take off, is indeed paid, and it can't have a specfied "limit" (e.g. 2 weeks a year or whatever) and there's no accrual period (a new hire can immediately take PTO).

I was at Broadcom when they switched from traditional vacation to (what they called) "unlimited vacation", at which time they "paid out" to all employees that had vacation balances. So that was a nice financial surprise. But after that, most employees took about the same or less vacation as they did previously and were not compensated for the additional "unused" vacation days. So it's a bit of a financial and psychological game.

Now, pretty much all the tech companies do this.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/unlimited-pto
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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: Nightfox to Bf2k+ on Thu Apr 11 2024 09:17 am

> Bf> company, we can take off whenever we want... just tell the boss if
> Bf> you're going to be gone more than one or two days. I think it was done
> Bf> as an incentive to attract new workers.
>
> How does that work? You say they got rid of PTO, so does that mean any time
> you take off is unpaid?

Any time off is paid, but then me and all of my colleagues are salaried. As far as I know, it is the same for hourly people...

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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: phigan to Bf2k+ on Thu Apr 11 2024 10:25 am

> Actually they did it because if you
> don't accrue time off, they don't have
> to pay it out when you leave.

Very true!

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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Thu Apr 11 2024 10:59 am

DM> I assume they'r referring to what companies are calling "flex PTO" or
DM> "unlimited PTO". Netflix started this trend about 10 years ago where they
DM> don't have to carry the vacation pay "debt" to employees on their balance
DM> sheets (and thus can report more favorable financials in shareholder
DM> meetings, SEC reports, etc.) - if an employee leaves the company for any
DM> reason, the companies doesn't owe them any "vacation pay". But the time
DM> they do take off, is indeed paid, and it can't have a specfied "limit"
DM> (e.g. 2 weeks a year or whatever) and there's no accrual period (a new
DM> hire can immediately take PTO).

DM> I was at Broadcom when they switched from traditional vacation to (what
DM> they called) "unlimited vacation", at which time they "paid out" to all
DM> employees that had vacation balances. So that was a nice financial
DM> surprise. But after that, most employees took about the same or less
DM> vacation as they did previously and were not compensated for the
DM> additional "unused" vacation days. So it's a bit of a financial and
DM> psychological game.

Ah, I've heard about that. It does seem like a bit of a game.. One more thing to benefit the company and not the people who work for them.

Nightfox

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Re: Eclipse travel
By: Dumas Walker to TINY on Wed Apr 10 2024 07:58 am

I walked across the street from my house to an empty lot beside our neighboor's house. There were about 8 of us there. Very few clouds and about 3 minutes of total eclipse. Now I've experienced three minutes of night during the day.

I was surprised at how quickly it became full daylight once the edge of the sun was visible again.

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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Thu Apr 11 2024 10:59 am

> sheets (and thus can report more favorable financials in shareholder
> meetings, SEC reports, etc.) - if an employee leaves the company for any
> reason, the companies doesn't owe them any "vacation pay". But the time they
> do take off, is indeed paid, and it can't have a specfied "limit" (e.g. 2
> weeks a year or whatever) and there's no accrual period (a new hire can
> immediately take PTO).
>
> I was at Broadcom when they switched from traditional vacation to (what they
> called) "unlimited vacation", at which time they "paid out" to all employees
> that had vacation balances. So that was a nice financial surprise. But after
> that, most employees took about the same or less vacation as they did
> previously and were not compensated for the additional "unused" vacation
> days. So it's a bit of a financial and psychological game.
>
> Now, pretty much all the tech companies do this.
> https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/unlimited-pto

that wouldn't work anyplace else. people would just take off until they get fired.
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On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 15:59:32 -0700, you wrote:

DM> I was at Broadcom when they switched from traditional vacation to (what
DM> they called) "unlimited vacation", at which time they "paid out" to all
DM> employees that had vacation balances. So that was a nice financial
DM> surprise. But after that, most employees took about the same or less
DM> vacation as they did previously and were not compensated for the
DM> additional "unused" vacation days. So it's a bit of a financial and
DM> psychological game.

I would be absolutely surprised if nobody tries to take full advantage of that. Every Friday off? You bet!

Regards,
Nick

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On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 17:40:52 -0700, you wrote:

N> Ah, I've heard about that. It does seem like a bit of a game.. One
N> more thing to benefit the company and not the people who work for them.

Unless one decides to take the 20 weeks of paid vacation a year that they think they deserve! :)

Regards,
Nick

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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: MRO to Digital Man on Thu Apr 11 2024 05:52 pm

> > Now, pretty much all the tech companies do this.
> > https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/unlimited-pto
>
> that wouldn't work anyplace else. people would just take off until they get
> fired.

Anyplace other than... where? Tons of companies are doing this now.
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Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: Accession to Digital Man on Thu Apr 11 2024 05:37 pm

> I would be absolutely surprised if nobody tries to take full advantage of
> that. Every Friday off? You bet!

That's the thing: it rarely happens that people take much more vacation than the average. The average is *less* than what was typically afforded emlpoyees (before this trend), so companies are saving money and don't have to carry any debt on their books.
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Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: Accession to Digital Man on Thu Apr 11 2024 05:37 pm

> DM> additional "unused" vacation days. So it's a bit of a financial and
> DM> psychological game.
>
> I would be absolutely surprised if nobody tries to take full advantage of
> that. Every Friday off? You bet!
>
> Regards,
> Nick
>

yeah boss. imma just gonna work 3 days, ok.
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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: Digital Man to MRO on Thu Apr 11 2024 04:21 pm

>
> > that wouldn't work anyplace else. people would just take off until
>
> > they
> > get fired.
>
> Anyplace other than... where? Tons of companies are doing this now.

I've worked in manufacturing for 29 years.
i've been an electronics tech for 17 years, and i've been a heat treater and other jobs when i was younger. also i've worked a lot of part time jobs to pay off my debt (ups, dayton freight and other stuff).

I've been have manufacturing and half sitting at a desk too.

you sit at a desk apparently.

In my world that shit wouldn't fly. We need people to come in.
not people who come in whenever they feel like that. when that happens in blue collar people get fired.

imagine if the truck driver who drives our food to the store comes in when he feels like it. What about nurses and doctors. imagine if any essential job had that policy. it would be chaos.

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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: MRO to Digital Man on Thu Apr 11 2024 07:36 pm

> Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
> By: Digital Man to MRO on Thu Apr 11 2024 04:21 pm
>
>
> > > that wouldn't work anyplace else. people would just take off until
>
> > > they
> > > get fired.
>
> > Anyplace other than... where? Tons of companies are doing this now.
>
>
> I've worked in manufacturing for 29 years.
> i've been an electronics tech for 17 years, and i've been a heat treater and
> other jobs when i was younger. also i've worked a lot of part time jobs to
> pay off my debt (ups, dayton freight and other stuff).
>
> I've been have manufacturing and half sitting at a desk too.
>
> you sit at a desk apparently.
>
> In my world that shit wouldn't fly. We need people to come in.
> not people who come in whenever they feel like that. when that happens in
> blue collar people get fired.
>
> imagine if the truck driver who drives our food to the store comes in when
> he feels like it. What about nurses and doctors. imagine if any essential
> job had that policy. it would be chaos.

We're talking about Flexible PTO, not "come in whenever you feel like it". The employee still has to submit a time-off request and get approval from their manager (which can be denied). It's just that there is no documented/fixed cap on the total number of days of PTO that can be taken per year - that discretion is up to the employee's manager. It has nothing to do with whether the employee sits at a desk or drives a truck. You've never heard of this?
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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: Digital Man to MRO on Thu Apr 11 2024 06:15 pm

> We're talking about Flexible PTO, not "come in whenever you feel like it".
> The employee still has to submit a time-off request and get approval from
> their manager (which can be denied). It's just that there is no
> documented/fixed cap on the total number of days of PTO that can be taken
> per year - that discretion is up to the employee's manager. It has nothing
> to do with whether the employee sits at a desk or drives a truck. You've
> never heard of this?

I've NEVER heard of no cap on PTO days.
it's more sensible if you have to have it approved.

I find it hard to believe that this would be widely accepted for anything other than salary workers.
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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: MRO to Digital Man on Thu Apr 11 2024 10:16 pm

> Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
> By: Digital Man to MRO on Thu Apr 11 2024 06:15 pm
>
> > We're talking about Flexible PTO, not "come in whenever you feel like
> > it". The employee still has to submit a time-off request and get approval
> > from their manager (which can be denied). It's just that there is no
> > documented/fixed cap on the total number of days of PTO that can be taken
> > per year - that discretion is up to the employee's manager. It has
> > nothing to do with whether the employee sits at a desk or drives a truck.
> > You've never heard of this?
>
> I've NEVER heard of no cap on PTO days.

It's all the rage in tech. <shrug>

> I find it hard to believe that this would be widely accepted for anything
> other than salary workers.

Right, this is only for salaried workers.
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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: MRO to Digital Man on Thu Apr 11 2024 05:52 pm

> that wouldn't work anyplace else. people would just take off until they get
> fired.

Well.. I haven't seen anyone in my company get fired or really even take advantage of the situation. We're not really what I would call a tech company although we are the largest electrical distributor in the world. My little group of automation engineers are a little isolated from the rest of the company so we don't see what goes on outside of our little group...

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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: MRO to Digital Man on Thu Apr 11 2024 07:36 pm

> I've worked in manufacturing for 29 years.
> i've been an electronics tech for 17 years, and i've been a heat treater and
> other jobs when i was younger. also i've worked a lot of part time jobs to
> pay off my debt (ups, dayton freight and other stuff).

I feel you... I worked as an electronics tech / design engineer in a plant for 30 years... on call 24/7/365 and because I lived closer to the plant than any other tech, I got most of the 911 calls... probably 95%.

Now I have been working as an App Engineer for a electrical distributor for the last 21 years.

You are correct in that a plant like the one I worked in cannot have a policy like that. They need the people to show up every day. The machines need to run period or the company loses money... $3k / hr on our biggest machines in circa 2000 dollars. That PTO policy would never work there...

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>Ah, I've heard about that. It does seem like a bit of a game.. One more thing
>to benefit the company and not the people who work for them.

It depends on what kind of employee you are and what your situation is.
For someone like me, it wouldn't benefit me at all because I didn't take
as much time off. For some of my co-workers, who often took time off,
having no limit on how much they could take would benefit them as they were
often running out of time to take and were never going to get compensated for
much/any time upon leaving anyway.

I could see that being a benefit to people with kids, too... more time to
take vacations with them while they are young and still want to be around
their parents.

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Re: Re: HAPPY TRANSGENDER DAY
By: MRO to Digital Man on Thu Apr 11 2024 10:16 pm

>> their manager (which can be denied). It's just that there is no
>> documented/fixed cap on the total number of days of PTO that can be taken
>> per year - that discretion is up to the employee's manager. It has nothing

MR> I've NEVER heard of no cap on PTO days.

I think I started hearing about this about 10 or 15 years ago.

MR> it's more sensible if you have to have it approved.

Like Digital Man said, it does have to be approved - "that discretion is up to the employee's manager". No cap doesn't mean it doesn't need to be approved.

MR> I find it hard to believe that this would be widely accepted for anything
MR> other than salary workers.

Yes, I believe it typically is for salary workers.

Nightfox

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