On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 22:48:09 +0300, Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it>
wrote:
>On Sun, 17 Jul 2022, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> On 2022-07-17, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 16:36:04 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
>>> <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> According to gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> So, has McAfee itself become the virus our parents warned us against?
>>>>
>>>> Probably. If you're running a reasonably recent version of Windows, the
>>>> free anti-virus that Microsoft includes is as good as any of the paid ones.
>>>
>>> Our problems with malware started when some scam artist figured out
>>> that he could get paid 50 bucks a shot for malware if he called it
>>> "antivirus".
>>
>> Was his name Bill Gates? <g,d&r>
>
>The very same who is now "saving" you with his "covid vaccine" ... makes
>you think ... or not.

He didn't. Covid is real, but don't take the vaccine. It will be good
bye to stupid.
--
Jim

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:42:39 -0500, Doublethink <double@think.dos>
wrote:
>You think it was a 'virus' that you were looking at. I've seen countless
>electron microscope scans of the 'virus' and they're bunk. Anyone can
>take a scan of sputum and call it 'virus' or 'Bullwinkle' or whatever
>they want to call it. The identification of the 'pathogen' is based on
>circular reasoning, not on Koch's postulates. Sorry to break it to you,
>but you've been duped.

Oh look, another crazy.
--
Jim

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 11:56:26 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 16 Jul 2022 11:05:24 -0500, D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 16 Jul 2022 11:50:03 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>>maus <maus@dmaus.org> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-07-16, D.J <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 16 Jul 2022 06:45:02 -0500, Redneck <spam@red.neck> wrote:
>>>>>>On 7/15/22 19:16, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>>>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> According to Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>:
>>>>>>being spoonfed, I know you are arrogant stooges, and you deserve the
>>>>>>medical and political abuse you so slavishly allow.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are the liar. Over 1 million dead just in the US from covid
>>>>> .
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>> Ignore the troll, I was tempted, Lord, and succumed.
>>>
>>>Yep. Another one too stupid to even try to reason with.
>>
>>If that fools misinformation causes one death, they should be charged
>>with murder. Their posts are too literate to be that dumb.
>
>So some loon posts lunacy and some idiot listens and gets dead for his
>trouble and the loon posting lunacy is a murderer? Sorry, we are all
>responsible for our own decisions, including the idiot who got dead. I
>realize that a major thrust of modern liberalism is to protect us from
>our own poor judgment and to find someone to blame for our own poor
>judgment--this is one of the reasons that they are having trouble
>getting votes from anybody who doesn't live a sheltered life in some
>big huge city.

I prefer to hold crap posters responsible for their crap.
--
Jim

On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 14:25:42 -0500, Divine Hate Crime
<divine@hate.crime> wrote:
>On 7/17/22 10:56, J. Clarke wrote:
>> I
>> realize that a major thrust of modern liberalism is to protect us from
>> our own poor judgment and to find someone to blame for our own poor
>> judgment--this is one of the reasons that they are having trouble
>> getting votes from anybody who doesn't live a sheltered life in some
>> big huge city.
>
>The problem is that 'liberals' have the poorest judgment of all. They
>are not on some pedestal meting out 'wisdom' and 'prudence' to the rest

More vermin.
--
Jim

On 2022-07-18, D.J <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 14:25:42 -0500, Divine Hate Crime
> <divine@hate.crime> wrote:
>
>> On 7/17/22 10:56, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> I
>>> realize that a major thrust of modern liberalism is to protect us from
>>> our own poor judgment and to find someone to blame for our own poor
>>> judgment--this is one of the reasons that they are having trouble
>>> getting votes from anybody who doesn't live a sheltered life in some
>>> big huge city.
>>
>> The problem is that 'liberals' have the poorest judgment of all. They
>> are not on some pedestal meting out 'wisdom' and 'prudence' to the rest
>
> More vermin.

Nah, probably just the same nymshifter.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 10:56:01 -0500
D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh look, another crazy.

I think there's just the one really.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

According to Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>:
>On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 3:42:05 PM UTC-6, Doublethink wrote:
>
>> Before Jonas Salk came along, the practice of vaccines (which dates back
>> to the dawn of western civilization) was considered witchcraft.

We got vaccines against whooping cough, diptheria, and tetanus by the
1930s, which were combined into DPT in 1948, even before the Salk and
Sabin polio vaccines in the 1950s.

If that's witchcraft, the witches saved a whole lot of children from
illness and death.

Please note Followup-To.

Fun fact: pediatrician Leila Denmark, who was one of the inventors of
the whooping cough vaccine, was born in 1898, started practicing in
1928, retired in 2001, and died in 2012.
--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 18:26:32 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 10:56:01 -0500
>D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh look, another crazy.
>
>I think there's just the one really.

Could be, but not necessarilly.
--
Jim

On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 16:47:08 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
<cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>On 2022-07-18, D.J <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 14:25:42 -0500, Divine Hate Crime
>> <divine@hate.crime> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/17/22 10:56, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>> I
>>>> realize that a major thrust of modern liberalism is to protect us from
>>>> our own poor judgment and to find someone to blame for our own poor
>>>> judgment--this is one of the reasons that they are having trouble
>>>> getting votes from anybody who doesn't live a sheltered life in some
>>>> big huge city.
>>>
>>> The problem is that 'liberals' have the poorest judgment of all. They
>>> are not on some pedestal meting out 'wisdom' and 'prudence' to the rest
>>
>> More vermin.
>
>Nah, probably just the same nymshifter.

I know some actual rednecks. They made the same claims as the ding
dong. Then their friends started dieing, at home. So they now have the
vaccine and take precautions.
--
Jim

On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 18:12:59 -0000 (UTC)
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

> According to Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>:
> >On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 3:42:05 PM UTC-6, Doublethink wrote:
> >
> >> Before Jonas Salk came along, the practice of vaccines (which dates
> >> back to the dawn of western civilization) was considered witchcraft.
>
> We got vaccines against whooping cough, diptheria, and tetanus by the
> 1930s, which were combined into DPT in 1948, even before the Salk and
> Sabin polio vaccines in the 1950s.

Vaccination goes back to Edward Jenner who used cowpox to vaccinate
against smallpox in the 1790s. Synthetic vaccines date back to Louis
Pasteur's rabies and anthrax vaccines in the late 1800s.

> If that's witchcraft, the witches saved a whole lot of children from
> illness and death.

I don't recall hearing about either Jenner or Pasteur being
described as witches or even warlocks.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 16:47:08 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2022-07-18, D.J <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 14:25:42 -0500, Divine Hate Crime
>>> <divine@hate.crime> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/17/22 10:56, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> realize that a major thrust of modern liberalism is to protect us from
>>>>> our own poor judgment and to find someone to blame for our own poor
>>>>> judgment--this is one of the reasons that they are having trouble
>>>>> getting votes from anybody who doesn't live a sheltered life in some
>>>>> big huge city.
>>>>
>>>> The problem is that 'liberals' have the poorest judgment of all. They
>>>> are not on some pedestal meting out 'wisdom' and 'prudence' to the rest
>>>
>>> More vermin.
>>
>> Nah, probably just the same nymshifter.
>
> I know some actual rednecks. They made the same claims as the ding
> dong. Then their friends started dieing, at home. So they now have the
> vaccine and take precautions.

But a lot of them won’t admit it, for fear of looking bad to their crazy
friends. I’m thinking of the politician who got vaccinated, bur refused to
say so when asked.

--
Pete

On 2022-07-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 18:12:59 -0000 (UTC)
> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>
>> According to Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>:
>> >On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 3:42:05 PM UTC-6, Doublethink wrote:
>> >
>> >> Before Jonas Salk came along, the practice of vaccines (which dates
>> >> back to the dawn of western civilization) was considered witchcraft.
>>
>> We got vaccines against whooping cough, diptheria, and tetanus by the
>> 1930s, which were combined into DPT in 1948, even before the Salk and
>> Sabin polio vaccines in the 1950s.
>
> Vaccination goes back to Edward Jenner who used cowpox to vaccinate
> against smallpox in the 1790s. Synthetic vaccines date back to Louis
> Pasteur's rabies and anthrax vaccines in the late 1800s.

Actually, according some recent things I have read, no cite, but a sort
of vaccination had been used in Africa and Europe well before that.
Jenner publicised it.
>
>> If that's witchcraft, the witches saved a whole lot of children from
>> illness and death.
>
> I don't recall hearing about either Jenner or Pasteur being
> described as witches or even warlocks.
>

The recent vaccines are completely different. They should be derided as
the catchpennies they are, to save genuine medicine and science.

--
greymausg@mail.com
"Are you sure that you can live on your investments after retirement?
If not, send us all your money."

On 2022-07-18, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 16:47:08 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
>> dong. Then their friends started dieing, at home. So they now have the
>> vaccine and take precautions.
>
> But a lot of them won’t admit it, for fear of looking bad to their crazy
> friends. I’m thinking of the politician who got vaccinated, bur refused to
> say so when asked.
>

The man signed `Redneck' is actually a vaccine supporter, trying to
doscredit genuine doubters.

--
greymausg@mail.com
"Are you sure that you can live on your investments after retirement?
If not, send us all your money."

maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> On 2022-07-18, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 16:47:08 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
>>> dong. Then their friends started dieing, at home. So they now have the
>>> vaccine and take precautions.
>>
>> But a lot of them won’t admit it, for fear of looking bad to their crazy
>> friends. I’m thinking of the politician who got vaccinated, bur refused to
>> say so when asked.
>>
>
> The man signed `Redneck' is actually a vaccine supporter, trying to
> doscredit genuine doubters.
>
>

It’s not necessarily a bad thing to be cautious, but we’re now two years in
on vaccines. How long should people wait? What are they waiting FOR?

--
Pete

maus <maus@dmaus.org> writes:

> On 2022-07-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 18:12:59 -0000 (UTC)
>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>
>>> According to Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>:
>>> >On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 3:42:05 PM UTC-6, Doublethink wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Before Jonas Salk came along, the practice of vaccines (which dates
>>> >> back to the dawn of western civilization) was considered witchcraft.
>>>
>>> We got vaccines against whooping cough, diptheria, and tetanus by the
>>> 1930s, which were combined into DPT in 1948, even before the Salk and
>>> Sabin polio vaccines in the 1950s.
>>
>> Vaccination goes back to Edward Jenner who used cowpox to vaccinate
>> against smallpox in the 1790s. Synthetic vaccines date back to Louis
>> Pasteur's rabies and anthrax vaccines in the late 1800s.
>
> Actually, according some recent things I have read, no cite, but a sort
> of vaccination had been used in Africa and Europe well before that.
> Jenner publicised it.
>>
>>> If that's witchcraft, the witches saved a whole lot of children from
>>> illness and death.
>>
>> I don't recall hearing about either Jenner or Pasteur being
>> described as witches or even warlocks.
>>
>
> The recent vaccines are completely different. They should be derided as
> the catchpennies they are, to save genuine medicine and science.

WTF are catchpennies?

having a cheap superficial attractiveness designed to encourage quick sales.
"the catchpenny world of commercial publishing"

Another BS comment.

--
Dan Espen

On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 1:56:46 PM UTC-6, maus wrote:
> On 2022-07-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:

> > I don't recall hearing about either Jenner or Pasteur being
> > described as witches or even warlocks.

> The recent vaccines are completely different. They should be derided as
> the catchpennies they are, to save genuine medicine and science.

It is true that the recent vaccines are mRNA vaccines, and thus work on
a somewhat different principle than the vaccines which preceded them.
This allowed them to be developed more rapidly in response to the COVID-19
pandemic, at the cost of their having to be stored and transported at colder
temperatures with greater difficulty.

However, they were still effective at keeping a lot of people from winding up
in hospitals on ventilators with a huge chance of dying. They're not "different"
in some way that makes them fakes or frauds.

John Savard

On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 1:59:42 PM UTC-6, maus wrote:

> The man signed `Redneck' is actually a vaccine supporter, trying to
> doscredit genuine doubters.

I suppose that's possible. I have no way to tell if that is the case or not.

There _are_ actual people whose beliefs are similar to those expressed
by "Redneck". I know this because a bunch of them got on television on
the sixth of January of this year.

John Savard

Peter Flass wrote:
> maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>> On 2022-07-18, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 16:47:08 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
>>>> dong. Then their friends started dieing, at home. So they now have the
>>>> vaccine and take precautions.
>>>
>>> But a lot of them won’t admit it, for fear of looking bad to their crazy
>>> friends. I’m thinking of the politician who got vaccinated, bur refused to
>>> say so when asked.
>>>
>>
>> The man signed `Redneck' is actually a vaccine supporter, trying to
>> doscredit genuine doubters.
>>
>>
>
> It’s not necessarily a bad thing to be cautious, but we’re now two years in
> on vaccines. How long should people wait? What are they waiting FOR?
>

FDA approval for the chickenpox vaccine took 20 years.

On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 21:31:36 -0700 (PDT)
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 1:56:46 PM UTC-6, maus wrote:
> > On 2022-07-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:
>
> > > I don't recall hearing about either Jenner or Pasteur being
> > > described as witches or even warlocks.
>
> > The recent vaccines are completely different. They should be derided as
> > the catchpennies they are, to save genuine medicine and science.
>
> It is true that the recent vaccines are mRNA vaccines, and thus work on
> a somewhat different principle than the vaccines which preceded them.

The principle is largely the same, expose the immune system to
something safer that will train it to recognise and attack the dangerous
virus immediately. The only difference is that instead of training with a
whole virus that can do its own damage the training is done with an mRNA
fragment that is effectively a maximally denatured virus stripped down to
just the recognisable bit.

> This allowed them to be developed more rapidly in response to the COVID-19
> pandemic, at the cost of their having to be stored and transported at
> colder temperatures with greater difficulty.

Yes, largely because there was no need to find a way to make the
real virus safe.

> However, they were still effective at keeping a lot of people from
> winding up in hospitals on ventilators with a huge chance of dying.
> They're not "different" in some way that makes them fakes or frauds.

They're not even fundamentally different, just optimised. Think of
it as like the difference between using Excel to do arithmetic and coding
the sums in assembler.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 2022-07-19, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 1:56:46 PM UTC-6, maus wrote:
>> On 2022-07-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> > I don't recall hearing about either Jenner or Pasteur being
>> > described as witches or even warlocks.
>
>> The recent vaccines are completely different. They should be derided as
>> the catchpennies they are, to save genuine medicine and science.
>
> It is true that the recent vaccines are mRNA vaccines, and thus work on
> a somewhat different principle than the vaccines which preceded them.
> This allowed them to be developed more rapidly in response to the COVID-19
> pandemic, at the cost of their having to be stored and transported at colder
> temperatures with greater difficulty.
>
> However, they were still effective at keeping a lot of people from winding up
> in hospitals on ventilators with a huge chance of dying. They're not "different"
> in some way that makes them fakes or frauds.
>
> John Savard

If I went to my vet and bought a vaccine from him, and injected into my
sheep/cattle/etc/rabbits, and they continued to suffer from the disease
that the vaccine was supposed to prevent, I would go back to the vet and
say, ``Where is my money, dude?.''

Even Dr. Fauchi admits now that it is all a waste of time.

--
greymausg@mail.com
"Are you sure that you can live on your investments after retirement?
If not, send us all your money."

On 2022-07-19, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 21:31:36 -0700 (PDT)
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 1:56:46 PM UTC-6, maus wrote:
>> > On 2022-07-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
> real virus safe.
>
>> However, they were still effective at keeping a lot of people from
>> winding up in hospitals on ventilators with a huge chance of dying.
>> They're not "different" in some way that makes them fakes or frauds.
>
> They're not even fundamentally different, just optimised. Think of
> it as like the difference between using Excel to do arithmetic and coding
> the sums in assembler.
>

Put it better, the difference between Excel and Awk.

--
greymausg@mail.com
"Are you sure that you can live on your investments after retirement?
If not, send us all your money."

On 2022-07-19, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 1:59:42 PM UTC-6, maus wrote:
>
>> The man signed `Redneck' is actually a vaccine supporter, trying to
>> doscredit genuine doubters.
>
> I suppose that's possible. I have no way to tell if that is the case or not.

I came to that conclusion after noticing that some of the anti-vaxxers
here were so obnoxious.

>
> There _are_ actual people whose beliefs are similar to those expressed
> by "Redneck". I know this because a bunch of them got on television on
> the sixth of January of this year.
>
> John Savard

--
greymausg@mail.com
"Are you sure that you can live on your investments after retirement?
If not, send us all your money."

On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 10:47:56 PM UTC-6, Voice of REASON wrote:

> FDA approval for the chickenpox vaccine took 20 years.

Well, we had lived with chicken pox for a long time, and it
wasn't *killing people*.

This new COVID-19 was killing many of the people it infected;
and those who had severe symptoms needed to be put on
ventilators at hospitals to have a chance of surviving - and
the hospitals were being overwhelmed.

So without a vaccine - quickly - thousands of people would
have died. So, yes, things were expedited because they had to
be. What part of "emergency use authorization" don't you understand?

John Savard

On Mon, 18 Jul 2022, D.J. wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 22:48:09 +0300, Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it>
> wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2022, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-07-17, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 16:36:04 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
>>>> <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> According to gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So, has McAfee itself become the virus our parents warned us against?
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably. If you're running a reasonably recent version of Windows, the
>>>>> free anti-virus that Microsoft includes is as good as any of the paid ones.
>>>>
>>>> Our problems with malware started when some scam artist figured out
>>>> that he could get paid 50 bucks a shot for malware if he called it
>>>> "antivirus".
>>>
>>> Was his name Bill Gates? <g,d&r>
>>
>> The very same who is now "saving" you with his "covid vaccine" ... makes
>> you think ... or not.
>
> He didn't. Covid is real, but don't take the vaccine. It will be good
> bye to stupid.

Covid is as real as teletubbies ... also teletubbies are featured in TV.

--
₪ BUD ₪

On Tue, 19 Jul 2022 16:54:53 +0300, Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it>
wrote:
>On Mon, 18 Jul 2022, D.J. wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 22:48:09 +0300, Bud Spencer <bud@campo.verano.it>
>> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2022, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-07-17, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 16:36:04 -0000 (UTC), John Levine
>>>>> <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> According to gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, has McAfee itself become the virus our parents warned us against?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably. If you're running a reasonably recent version of Windows, the
>>>>>> free anti-virus that Microsoft includes is as good as any of the paid ones.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our problems with malware started when some scam artist figured out
>>>>> that he could get paid 50 bucks a shot for malware if he called it
>>>>> "antivirus".
>>>>
>>>> Was his name Bill Gates? <g,d&r>
>>>
>>> The very same who is now "saving" you with his "covid vaccine" ... makes
>>> you think ... or not.
>>
>> He didn't. Covid is real, but don't take the vaccine. It will be good
>> bye to stupid.
>
>Covid is as real as teletubbies ... also teletubbies are featured in TV.

One of my relatives spent 5 weeks in the hospital due to covid. So it
is real. You can pretend all you want, but reality wont change.
--
Jim