On 9/29/2023 1:44 PM, RabidPedagog wrote:

<snip>

> I believe it, myself. The obsession with making things thinner was going
> to going significant problems for cooling no matter what they did.
> Still, my iPhone 13 never gets warm and my MacBook Air M1 never gets
> warmer than 33c (I checked).

They'll probably need to follow Samsung's lead and use vapor chamber
cooling.
<https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/what-is-vapor-chamber-cooling-smartphones-tested-explained/>.

For Snapdragon SOCs and Samsung SOCs there is really no choice, they
generate too much heat to use just heat pipes because the 5G modem is
integrated.

For the Bionic chips, Apple was able to avoid the expense and the space
needed by vapor chamber cooling because the modem is a separate device
but the Bionic chips are getting more complex, adding more transistors
and increasing the amount of heat generated.

Eventually, Apple will integrate their own 5G modem into the Bionic and
then they'll likely be forced to use vapor chamber cooling but that
likely won't happen until the iPhone 19 or 20 depending on how the modem
development goes. They'll likely first go with a separate modem chip in
the 17 and 18 before integrating it into the Bionic.

Initially, Kuo believed that the iPhone 14 Pro would use vapor chamber
cooling but it did not. The issue with vapor chamber cooling is that it
could add maybe 0.2-0.3mm to the thickness of the phone. The 15 Pro
actually went down in thickness by 0.1mm. OTOH, Would any user would be
upset about a fraction of a mm increase in thickness?

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 2023-09-29, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 9/29/2023 1:44 PM, RabidPedagog wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> I believe it, myself. The obsession with making things thinner was
>> going to going significant problems for cooling no matter what they
>> did. Still, my iPhone 13 never gets warm and my MacBook Air M1 never
>> gets warmer than 33c (I checked).
>
> They'll probably need to follow Samsung's lead and use vapor chamber
> cooling.

You're assuming (without evidence) that this is a hardware issue. I've
seen owners of other models reporting that after upgrading to iOS 17
their devices got hot too. I've also seen widely varying reports of what
devices are doing during the heat generation. Some report it while doing
resource-intensive operations, and other while relatively idle. So it's
a little early to make such assumptions. For all we know this is simply
a software defect that will be fixed in a future update.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2023-09-30, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2023-09-29, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 9/29/2023 1:44 PM, RabidPedagog wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>> I believe it, myself. The obsession with making things thinner was
>>> going to going significant problems for cooling no matter what they
>>> did. Still, my iPhone 13 never gets warm and my MacBook Air M1
>>> never gets warmer than 33c (I checked).
>>
>> They'll probably need to follow Samsung's lead and use vapor chamber
>> cooling.
>
> You're assuming (without evidence) that this is a hardware issue. I've
> seen owners of other models reporting that after upgrading to iOS 17
> their devices got hot too. I've also seen widely varying reports of
> what devices are doing during the heat generation. Some report it
> while doing resource-intensive operations, and other while relatively
> idle. So it's a little early to make such assumptions. For all we know
> this is simply a software defect that will be fixed in a future
> update.

"Honestly, I found major heat issues even on 12 Pro after the iOS 17
update. Sometimes my phone starts getting hot without any particular
reason"
<https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k29xuf8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>

"Yeah iOS 17 might be the cause of this rather than the hardware. My 11
Pro is getting much worse battery life since iOS 16. It’s also getting
hotter."
<https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k2a491i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>

"Agreed there is some sort of looping glitch. I setup a 15 pro max for
the so and her phone well is pretty much ok. There was some conversion
from 16 to 17 that has gone off the rails. My 14 pro is tanking bad and
it honestly started after a security update in the 16 family. So I
wonder if they have adjusted something and had unintended consequences"
<https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k2a87ly/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>

"Same, noticed my 14 Pro Max getting really hot and draining battery
fast when using Instagram for example, which never have been an issue on
that phone for me with iOS 16 Was also the first time I had to use
battery saving mode so for me there is something wrong since upgrading
to iOS 17. edit: maybe it could be this?: iPhone 15 Overheating? It is
Instagram app for me and I have a fix for you. - YouTube"
<>https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k2aqc91/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

""It may not just be an iPhone 15 issue. My 14P gets blazing hot during
Facetime calls. Like actually uncomfortable to touch the screen. And the
battery drains about 5% every 10 minutes of call time. Started during
one of the iOS 17 betas and still hasn't been fixed.
<>https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k2acqyc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

"My 14 pro gets hot AF as well randomly"
<https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k2amor7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>

....and the list goes on...

I realize you trolls *really* want this product to be defective, but
there are lots of indications this may just be a software glitch. It may
be really convenient for you to focus only on the reports to match your
bias, but the actual adults here don't necessarily have that burning
desire and are far more interested in factual, honest discussion. 😉

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2023-09-29 7:19 p.m., sms wrote:
> On 9/29/2023 1:44 PM, RabidPedagog wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I believe it, myself. The obsession with making things thinner was
>> going to going significant problems for cooling no matter what they
>> did. Still, my iPhone 13 never gets warm and my MacBook Air M1 never
>> gets warmer than 33c (I checked).
>
> They'll probably need to follow Samsung's lead and use vapor chamber
> cooling.
> <https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/what-is-vapor-chamber-cooling-smartphones-tested-explained/>.
>
> For Snapdragon SOCs and Samsung SOCs there is really no choice, they
> generate too much heat to use just heat pipes because the 5G modem is
> integrated.
>
> For the Bionic chips, Apple was able to avoid the expense and the space
> needed by vapor chamber cooling because the modem is a separate device
> but the Bionic chips are getting more complex, adding more transistors
> and increasing the amount of heat generated.
>
> Eventually, Apple will integrate their own 5G modem into the Bionic and
> then they'll likely be forced to use vapor chamber cooling but that
> likely won't happen until the iPhone 19 or 20 depending on how the modem
> development goes. They'll likely first go with a separate modem chip in
> the 17 and 18 before integrating it into the Bionic.
>
> Initially, Kuo believed that the iPhone 14 Pro would use vapor chamber
> cooling but it did not. The issue with vapor chamber cooling is that it
> could add maybe 0.2-0.3mm to the thickness of the phone. The 15 Pro
> actually went down in thickness by 0.1mm. OTOH, Would any user would be
> upset about a fraction of a mm increase in thickness?

I love Apple's newer devices but there is no denying that style has a
lot to do with the product they're selling (despite the fact that the
MacBook Air 15 is butt ugly). As such, the extra fraction of a mm in
thickness would likely bother the people who don't know a thing about
the internals, but want their device to be the bee's knees in terms of
looks. It's the price Apple to pay for insisting on attracting both
computer users and idiots who only buy technology to be noticed.

--
RabidPedagog
TG: @RabidPedagog
Galatians 6:7

On 2023-09-29 18:04, RabidPedagog wrote:
> On 2023-09-29 7:19 p.m., sms wrote:
>> On 9/29/2023 1:44 PM, RabidPedagog wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> I believe it, myself. The obsession with making things thinner was
>>> going to going significant problems for cooling no matter what they
>>> did. Still, my iPhone 13 never gets warm and my MacBook Air M1 never
>>> gets warmer than 33c (I checked).
>>
>> They'll probably need to follow Samsung's lead and use vapor chamber
>> cooling.
>> <https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/what-is-vapor-chamber-cooling-smartphones-tested-explained/>.
>>
>> For Snapdragon SOCs and Samsung SOCs there is really no choice, they
>> generate too much heat to use just heat pipes because the 5G modem is
>> integrated.
>>
>> For the Bionic chips, Apple was able to avoid the expense and the
>> space needed by vapor chamber cooling because the modem is a separate
>> device but the Bionic chips are getting more complex, adding more
>> transistors and increasing the amount of heat generated.
>>
>> Eventually, Apple will integrate their own 5G modem into the Bionic
>> and then they'll likely be forced to use vapor chamber cooling but
>> that likely won't happen until the iPhone 19 or 20 depending on how
>> the modem development goes. They'll likely first go with a separate
>> modem chip in the 17 and 18 before integrating it into the Bionic.
>>
>> Initially, Kuo believed that the iPhone 14 Pro would use vapor chamber
>> cooling but it did not. The issue with vapor chamber cooling is that
>> it could add maybe 0.2-0.3mm to the thickness of the phone. The 15 Pro
>> actually went down in thickness by 0.1mm. OTOH, Would any user would
>> be upset about a fraction of a mm increase in thickness?
>
> I love Apple's newer devices but there is no denying that style has a
> lot to do with the product they're selling (despite the fact that the
> MacBook Air 15 is butt ugly). As such, the extra fraction of a mm in
> thickness would likely bother the people who don't know a thing about
> the internals, but want their device to be the bee's knees in terms of
> looks. It's the price Apple to pay for insisting on attracting both
> computer users and idiots who only buy technology to be noticed.
>

Style matters in consumer products.

This is not news.

But smaller and lighter are also useful in and of themselves.

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2023-09-30, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-09-29, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 9/29/2023 1:44 PM, RabidPedagog wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> I believe it, myself. The obsession with making things thinner was
>>>> going to going significant problems for cooling no matter what they
>>>> did. Still, my iPhone 13 never gets warm and my MacBook Air M1
>>>> never gets warmer than 33c (I checked).
>>>
>>> They'll probably need to follow Samsung's lead and use vapor chamber
>>> cooling.
>>
>> You're assuming (without evidence) that this is a hardware issue. I've
>> seen owners of other models reporting that after upgrading to iOS 17
>> their devices got hot too. I've also seen widely varying reports of
>> what devices are doing during the heat generation. Some report it
>> while doing resource-intensive operations, and other while relatively
>> idle. So it's a little early to make such assumptions. For all we know
>> this is simply a software defect that will be fixed in a future
>> update.
>
> "Honestly, I found major heat issues even on 12 Pro after the iOS 17
> update. Sometimes my phone starts getting hot without any particular
> reason"
> <https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k29xuf8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>
>
> "Yeah iOS 17 might be the cause of this rather than the hardware. My 11
> Pro is getting much worse battery life since iOS 16. It’s also getting
> hotter."
> <https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k2a491i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>
>
> "Agreed there is some sort of looping glitch. I setup a 15 pro max for
> the so and her phone well is pretty much ok. There was some conversion
> from 16 to 17 that has gone off the rails. My 14 pro is tanking bad and
> it honestly started after a security update in the 16 family. So I
> wonder if they have adjusted something and had unintended consequences"
> <https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k2a87ly/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>
>
> "Same, noticed my 14 Pro Max getting really hot and draining battery
> fast when using Instagram for example, which never have been an issue on
> that phone for me with iOS 16 Was also the first time I had to use
> battery saving mode so for me there is something wrong since upgrading
> to iOS 17. edit: maybe it could be this?: iPhone 15 Overheating? It is
> Instagram app for me and I have a fix for you. - YouTube"
> <>https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k2aqc91/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
>
> ""It may not just be an iPhone 15 issue. My 14P gets blazing hot during
> Facetime calls. Like actually uncomfortable to touch the screen. And the
> battery drains about 5% every 10 minutes of call time. Started during
> one of the iOS 17 betas and still hasn't been fixed.
> <>https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k2acqyc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
>
> "My 14 pro gets hot AF as well randomly"
> <https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/16slezg/comment/k2amor7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>
>
> ...and the list goes on...
>
> I realize you trolls *really* want this product to be defective, but
> there are lots of indications this may just be a software glitch. It may
> be really convenient for you to focus only on the reports to match your
> bias, but the actual adults here don't necessarily have that burning
> desire and are far more interested in factual, honest discussion. 😉
>
My iPhone 13 gets hot sometimes when I’m charging her, she’s sunbathing on
my car seat, or wearing that negligee I bought for special occasions.

I guess I’ll skip iPhone 15 since unlucky 13 is doing fine so far.

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2023-09-29, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 9/29/2023 1:44 PM, RabidPedagog wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> I believe it, myself. The obsession with making things thinner was
>>> going to going significant problems for cooling no matter what they
>>> did. Still, my iPhone 13 never gets warm and my MacBook Air M1 never
>>> gets warmer than 33c (I checked).
>>
>> They'll probably need to follow Samsung's lead and use vapor chamber
>> cooling.
>
> You're assuming (without evidence) that this is a hardware issue. I've
> seen owners of other models reporting that after upgrading to iOS 17
> their devices got hot too. I've also seen widely varying reports of what
> devices are doing during the heat generation. Some report it while doing
> resource-intensive operations, and other while relatively idle. So it's
> a little early to make such assumptions. For all we know this is simply
> a software defect that will be fixed in a future update.
>
It could be a faux pas that doesn’t affect me. My phone does get quite warm
sometimes. Better luck with iPhone 16. Since I am not affected I guess I
don’t really care. iOS 17 did shit to Do Not Disturb I detailed on another
thread that I had to figure out. Grrr! I survived.

On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:10:26 -0700, Alan wrote:

> Style matters in consumer products.
>
> This is not news.
>
> But smaller and lighter are also useful in and of themselves.

Why should style matter at all for a phone?
What should matter is the performance of the phone.
Who cares what the phone looks like? It's just a rectangle.

On 2023-09-30, Wolf Greenblatt <wolf@greenblatt.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:10:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
>
>> Style matters in consumer products.
>>
>> This is not news.
>>
>> But smaller and lighter are also useful in and of themselves.
>
> Why should style matter at all for a phone?
> What should matter is the performance of the phone.
> Who cares what the phone looks like? It's just a rectangle.

Explain why Apple sells more phones than any other phone company then.
You've apparently lost touch with reality.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On Sep 29, 2023, Wolf Greenblatt wrote
(in article <uf82oi$3p4tc$1@news.samoylyk.net>):

> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:10:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
>
> > Style matters in consumer products.
> >
> > This is not news.
> >
> > But smaller and lighter are also useful in and of themselves.
>
> Why should style matter at all for a phone?
> What should matter is the performance of the phone.
> Who cares what the phone looks like? It's just a rectangle.

It always matters. Aesthetics matter a lot more than performance to the
average customer. If something is heavy, then people won't want it. If it's
sharp, people won't want it. If its ugly, people won't want it. Much
different than something like a server which you will never look at.

On 2023-09-29 19:56, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:10:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
>
>> Style matters in consumer products.
>>
>> This is not news.
>>
>> But smaller and lighter are also useful in and of themselves.
>
> Why should style matter at all for a phone?

Why should style matter for anything?

Because PEOPLE are PEOPLE.

On 9/29/23 22:00, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-09-30, Wolf Greenblatt <wolf@greenblatt.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:10:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
>>
>>> Style matters in consumer products.
>>>
>>> This is not news.
>>>
>>> But smaller and lighter are also useful in and of themselves.
>>
>> Why should style matter at all for a phone?
>> What should matter is the performance of the phone.
>> Who cares what the phone looks like? It's just a rectangle.
>
> Explain why Apple sells more phones than any other phone company then.
> You've apparently lost touch with reality.
>

Brand.
Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 9/29/23 22:00, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-09-30, Wolf Greenblatt <wolf@greenblatt.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:10:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
>>
>>> Style matters in consumer products.
>>>
>>> This is not news.
>>>
>>> But smaller and lighter are also useful in and of themselves.
>>
>> Why should style matter at all for a phone?
>> What should matter is the performance of the phone.
>> Who cares what the phone looks like? It's just a rectangle.
>
> Explain why Apple sells more phones than any other phone company then.
> You've apparently lost touch with reality.
>

Brand.
Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2023-09-29 21:01, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/29/23 22:00, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2023-09-30, Wolf Greenblatt <wolf@greenblatt.net> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:10:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Style matters in consumer products.
>>>>
>>>> This is not news.
>>>>
>>>> But smaller and lighter are also useful in and of themselves.
>>>
>>> Why should style matter at all for a phone?
>>> What should matter is the performance of the phone.
>>> Who cares what the phone looks like? It's just a rectangle.
>>
>> Explain why  Apple sells more phones than any other phone company then.
>> You've apparently lost touch with reality.
>>
>
> Brand.
> Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.

Riiiiiiiight.

"Brand" has kept them the best-selling smartphones in the world for 16
years.

<smirk>

On 2023-09-29 21:02, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/29/23 22:00, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2023-09-30, Wolf Greenblatt <wolf@greenblatt.net> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:10:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Style matters in consumer products.
>>>>
>>>> This is not news.
>>>>
>>>> But smaller and lighter are also useful in and of themselves.
>>>
>>> Why should style matter at all for a phone?
>>> What should matter is the performance of the phone.
>>> Who cares what the phone looks like? It's just a rectangle.
>>
>> Explain why  Apple sells more phones than any other phone company then.
>> You've apparently lost touch with reality.
>>
>
> Brand.
> Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.

It seems most people who by iphones...

....the vast majority in fact...

....find them highly functional and safe.

On 9/29/23 23:09, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-09-29 21:01, candycanearter07 wrote:
>> Brand.
>> Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
>
> Riiiiiiiight.
>
> "Brand" has kept them the best-selling smartphones in the world for 16
> years.
>
> <smirk>

Yes.
People see Apple as the modern, futuristic tech company.
That takes a lot of marketing, genuine success, etc.
But once you have that, you can basically ride the loyalty to success.

How many genuine innovations has Apple made recently?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_loyalty
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2023-09-29 21:18, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/29/23 23:09, Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-09-29 21:01, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>> Brand.
>>> Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
>>
>> Riiiiiiiight.
>>
>> "Brand" has kept them the best-selling smartphones in the world for 16
>> years.
>>
>> <smirk>
>
> Yes.
> People see Apple as the modern, futuristic tech company.

The might see that once... ...or even twice...

....but they command fantastic loyalty.

> That takes a lot of marketing, genuine success, etc.
> But once you have that, you can basically ride the loyalty to success.
>
> How many genuine innovations has Apple made recently?

How is that relevant?

On 9/29/23 23:20, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-09-29 21:18, candycanearter07 wrote:
>> On 9/29/23 23:09, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2023-09-29 21:01, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>> Brand.
>>>> Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
>>>
>>> Riiiiiiiight.
>>>
>>> "Brand" has kept them the best-selling smartphones in the world for
>>> 16 years.
>>>
>>> <smirk>
>>
>> Yes.
>> People see Apple as the modern, futuristic tech company.
>
> The might see that once... ...or even twice...
>
> ...but they command fantastic loyalty.

What?

>> That takes a lot of marketing, genuine success, etc.
>> But once you have that, you can basically ride the loyalty to success.
>>
>> How many genuine innovations has Apple made recently?
>
> How is that relevant?
Pointing out that the only thing selling new iphones is the brand. (and
camera if you really care about that)
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On Sep 29, 2023, candycanearter07 wrote
(in article <uf87iv$fg0s$3@dont-email.me>):

> On 9/29/23 23:09, Alan wrote:
> > On 2023-09-29 21:01, candycanearter07 wrote:
> > > Brand.
> > > Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
> >
> > Riiiiiiiight.
> >
> > "Brand" has kept them the best-selling smartphones in the world for 16
> > years.
> >
> > <smirk>
>
> Yes.
> People see Apple as the modern, futuristic tech company.
> That takes a lot of marketing, genuine success, etc.
> But once you have that, you can basically ride the loyalty to success.
>
> How many genuine innovations has Apple made recently?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_loyalty

Like them or not:
- The Notch
- Removing the headphone jack
- The reversible charging port
- Marketable wireless earbuds
- Marketable wireless trackers
- AirDrop (like bluetooth file xfer if it didn't suck)
- Functional x86 to ARM64 translation
- On-chip ML acceleration
- Application of the broadband engine concept to laptops

Primarily Apple makes technologies that were previously unmarketable
(Wireless trackers, wireless earbuds, wireless file transfers, Thunderbolt,
binary translation, smart watches, mp3 players, etc.) appealing to the
general public.

On 2023-09-29 21:26, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/29/23 23:20, Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-09-29 21:18, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>> On 9/29/23 23:09, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2023-09-29 21:01, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>>>> Brand.
>>>>> Also, consumer safety/functionality should usually be prioritized.
>>>>
>>>> Riiiiiiiight.
>>>>
>>>> "Brand" has kept them the best-selling smartphones in the world for
>>>> 16 years.
>>>>
>>>> <smirk>
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>> People see Apple as the modern, futuristic tech company.
>>
>> The might see that once... ...or even twice...
>>
>> ...but they command fantastic loyalty.
>
> What?

"They".

>
>>> That takes a lot of marketing, genuine success, etc.
>>> But once you have that, you can basically ride the loyalty to success.
>>>
>>> How many genuine innovations has Apple made recently?
>>
>> How is that relevant?
> Pointing out that the only thing selling new iphones is the brand. (and
> camera if you really care about that)

So trust that they will work well based on previous experience can't
play any role, can it?

On 9/29/23 23:38, Dorper wrote:
> Like them or not:
> - The Notch
> - Removing the headphone jack
> - The reversible charging port
> - Marketable wireless earbuds
> - Marketable wireless trackers
> - AirDrop (like bluetooth file xfer if it didn't suck)
> - Functional x86 to ARM64 translation
> - On-chip ML acceleration
> - Application of the broadband engine concept to laptops
>
> Primarily Apple makes technologies that were previously unmarketable
> (Wireless trackers, wireless earbuds, wireless file transfers, Thunderbolt,
> binary translation, smart watches, mp3 players, etc.) appealing to the
> general public.
>

To be fair, yes.
The marketing hides that they haven't made anything NEW, just repackaged
an existing thing and made it a selling point.

Apple managed to make their massive USB-C scandal into an "exciting new
model" of devices.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 9/29/23 23:44, Alan wrote:
> So trust that they will work well based on previous experience can't
> play any role, can it?
https://techcrunch.com/2022/01/08/apples-biggest-scandal-of-2022-is-already-happening/
https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apple-encryption-court-order-news/
https://www.macworld.com/article/668520/from-antennagate-to-touch-disease-the-11-biggest-apple-scandals.html
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/tech/apple-labor-department-investigation/index.html
https://www.tomsguide.com/us/pictures-story/1418-biggest-apple-fails.html
https://www.aol.com/finance/apple-facing-mountain-controversies-investors-172000800.html

There's also plenty of evidence it doesn't always work well.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2023-09-29 21:54, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/29/23 23:44, Alan wrote:
>> So trust that they will work well based on previous experience can't
>> play any role, can it?
> https://techcrunch.com/2022/01/08/apples-biggest-scandal-of-2022-is-already-happening/
> https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apple-encryption-court-order-news/
> https://www.macworld.com/article/668520/from-antennagate-to-touch-disease-the-11-biggest-apple-scandals.html
> https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/tech/apple-labor-department-investigation/index.html
> https://www.tomsguide.com/us/pictures-story/1418-biggest-apple-fails.html
> https://www.aol.com/finance/apple-facing-mountain-controversies-investors-172000800.html
>
> There's also plenty of evidence it doesn't always work well.

"doesn't always" is hardly sufficient.

See if you can figure out why.

On 9/29/23 23:58, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-09-29 21:54, candycanearter07 wrote:
>> On 9/29/23 23:44, Alan wrote:
>>> So trust that they will work well based on previous experience can't
>>> play any role, can it?
>> https://techcrunch.com/2022/01/08/apples-biggest-scandal-of-2022-is-already-happening/
>> https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apple-encryption-court-order-news/
>> https://www.macworld.com/article/668520/from-antennagate-to-touch-disease-the-11-biggest-apple-scandals.html
>> https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/tech/apple-labor-department-investigation/index.html
>> https://www.tomsguide.com/us/pictures-story/1418-biggest-apple-fails.html
>> https://www.aol.com/finance/apple-facing-mountain-controversies-investors-172000800.html
>>
>> There's also plenty of evidence it doesn't always work well.
>
> "doesn't always" is hardly sufficient.
>
> See if you can figure out why.

Consider how many controversies there are.
Consider what that says about their track record.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2023-09-29 22:05, candycanearter07 wrote:
> On 9/29/23 23:58, Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-09-29 21:54, candycanearter07 wrote:
>>> On 9/29/23 23:44, Alan wrote:
>>>> So trust that they will work well based on previous experience can't
>>>> play any role, can it?
>>> https://techcrunch.com/2022/01/08/apples-biggest-scandal-of-2022-is-already-happening/
>>> https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apple-encryption-court-order-news/
>>> https://www.macworld.com/article/668520/from-antennagate-to-touch-disease-the-11-biggest-apple-scandals.html
>>> https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/tech/apple-labor-department-investigation/index.html
>>> https://www.tomsguide.com/us/pictures-story/1418-biggest-apple-fails.html
>>> https://www.aol.com/finance/apple-facing-mountain-controversies-investors-172000800.html
>>>
>>> There's also plenty of evidence it doesn't always work well.
>>
>> "doesn't always" is hardly sufficient.
>>
>> See if you can figure out why.
>
> Consider how many controversies there are.
> Consider what that says about their track record.

So, no.

You can't figure it out.

Got it.