On 2023-01-09, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>On Sun, 08 Jan 2023 14:08:08 -0600, D.J. wrote:
>>>
>>> My grandfather asked the farmers he knew what they thought about it.
>>> The replied that the chickens and cows can't tell time. They lay eggs
>>> and get milked when needed. Clocks had nothing to do with it.
>>
>>I think chickens don't care, but cows do. They like a 24 hour cycle
>>tovs
>>get milked.
>
> They like to be milked twice a day[*]. It doesn't matter the exact time of day
> so long as it is regular, nor do they recognize changes between daylight
> savings and standard time.
>
> [*] It can be uncomfortable for the cow if they're not milked on
>

Very true, from someone who has worked at almost every job.

According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>:
>>https://www.colorado.edu/today/2022/03/28/why-permanent-daylight-saving-time-bad-idea
>
>His arguments are not convincing and are specific to where he lives.
>
>The time of sunset varies by an hour _within_ a timezone from east to west,
>so any arguments about specific times are restricted to a single point
>in the timezone.
>
>Longer evenings win in my book. DST forever!

The anti-DST crowd is dominated by sad insomniacs who get up early in
the morning and imagine that is good, or worse, virtuous.

But we know they are wrong.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

On Mon, 09 Jan 2023 10:41:04 +0100, Andreas Eder wrote:
>
> On So 08 Jan 2023 at 23:32, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 08 Jan 2023 14:08:08 -0600, D.J. wrote:
>>>
>> I think chickens don't care, but cows do. They like a 24 hour cycle to
>> get milked.
>>
>> As far as I know when switching clocks farmers gradually do it a few
>> minutes earlier or later for some days to get cows adjusted.
>
> Why adjust them at all? It is not as they would look at the clock and
> they surely won't mind it they are ,ilked at 4 or 5 o'clock as long as
> it is the same time.

Suppose something with they just don't like to deviate from it. Like me
when I had a fixed schedule and had to get to work at the same time. So I
slept like from X hours to Y hours every day. If someone woke me up
earlier that might have disturbed my performance.

For cows it seems disturbing the 24 hour cycle would decrease the milk yield.
--
Andreas

Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> wrote:
> On Mo 09 Jan 2023 at 07:04, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> wrote:
>>> On So 08 Jan 2023 at 08:46, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 08 Jan 2023 06:39:52 GMT
>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think the best thing would be to eliminate DST entirely. No more
>>>>> semi-annual clock changes, no subtle bugs, and fewer road accidents
>>>>> due to people's circadian rhythm being disturbed. Unfortunately,
>>>>> here on the west coast of North America, most people are pushing
>>>>> to make DST permanent. So much for the sun being overhead at noon.
>>>>
>>>> Go the whole hog and switch to UTC worldwide and accept that people
>>>> work, eat, sleep etc. at different times.
>>>
>>> Yes, but that would be rational - so no chance.
>>
>> It wouldn’t really solve any problems, since people would still schedule
>> their days around the sun.
>
> What does this have to do with what the clock shows? The sun rises, no
> matter wether the clock shows 2, 4, 18 or 24.
>
>> You’d still have the problem of call centers in
>> India working overnight to deal with people in the US, for whom it’s
>> daytime.
>
> That hasn't got to do anything whith what the clock shows either.
>
> 'Andreas
>

Right. What would be the point of everyone changing to UTC, since it
wouldn’t affect anything except the clock time people,started and left
work. You’d still have the problem coordinating across the now-nonexistent
time zones. If I wanted to call someone from New York, it wouldn’t matter
what either clock read, the question still would be “is this working hours
for this person?”

--
Pete

On 1/9/2023 7:00 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> jtmpreno <none@znet.com> writes:
>> Permanent Standard Time is good.
>
> ... and you can start it today!
>
> For several years for all my internal uses, I use permanent
> standard time. My devices do not perform transitions to DST
> anymore.
>
> When exchanging times with other parties, I have to perform
> a conversation now.
>
>

Seem you live 90 degrees out on the Tau Axis... you can't get there from
here. (Here being our space-time dimension.) ;-)
--

Charles Richmond

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 1/8/2023 9:12 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jan 2023 14:08:08 -0600, D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Benjamin Franklin started it back in colonial times.
>
> Ben got a bum rap -- the letter to The Journal of Paris is obviously a
> joke.
>

Benjie Franklin was a real joker alright. You can see a picture of him
laughing on the US hundred dollar bill. :-)

--

Charles Richmond

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 1/9/2023 8:04 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-01-08, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7 Jan 2023 09:52:57 GMT
>>>> Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But recently I've had to use the Qt library's QDateTime[1] type, and
>>>>> it occurred to me that this must be how people had to work before
>>>>> someone (in the 1960s?) said "let's stop this nonsense and just count
>>>>> seconds since some T=0".
>>>>
>>>> Late 60s given that the unix epoch is in 1970 (just).
>>>>
>>>>> A QDateTime is:
>>>>> - a date
>>>>> - a time-of-day
>>>>> - a time zone
>>>>>
>>>>> and it's easy to get wrong. Not so much at New Year, but when you
>>>>
>>>> It's impossible to get right - places like Ireland and the UK
>>>> switch timezone twice a year while most US timezones shift their offset from
>>>> UTC twice a year. Then there's the whole business of the missing/duplicated
>>>> hour as the clocks go forwards/backwards.
>>>
>>> I think Indiana is, or was, split between two timezones; Arizona doesn’t
>>> observe DST; based on what I saw New Years, it appears Puerto Rico is 1/2
>>> hour ahead of New York,; China is all one timezone, and there’s lots more
>>> of such F*ckishness.
>>
>> Saskatchewan doesn't observe DST as well. Newfoundland and Labrador are
>> (is?) half an hour ahead of Halifax.
>>
>>>>> start messing with the time zone, you have to remember which function
>>>>> preserves the time while shifting the time zone, and which function
>>>>> instead preserves the date and time-of-day.
>>>>
>>>> Then you cross a DST boundary and all the bugs come to the surface.
>>
>> I think the best thing would be to eliminate DST entirely. No more
>> semi-annual clock changes, no subtle bugs, and fewer road accidents
>> due to people's circadian rhythm being disturbed. Unfortunately,
>> here on the west coast of North America, most people are pushing
>> to make DST permanent. So much for the sun being overhead at noon.
>>
>
> If the areas were all contiguous, you could just rejigger the time zones.
> They already jog around political boundaries. if they’re not, well, you
> can’t have a patchwork. Here in AZ we son’t observe DST, and it makes
> things a lot simpler, except when I have to deal with people from less
> enlightened states, and have to count time zones on my fingers.
>

Technically true. But if you look at a regular map of the state of
Arizona, you'll find a large chunk in the north to belong to the Navajo
Indian Reservation. The Navajo Nation in northeastern Arizona *does*
observe Daylight Saving Time. Navajo Indian Reservation, Arizona is
within the Navajo Nation.
--

Charles Richmond

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 2023-01-08 01:55, Peter Flass wrote:
> I think Indiana is, or was, split between two timezones; Arizona doesn’t
> observe DST; based on what I saw New Years, it appears Puerto Rico is 1/2
> hour ahead of New York,; China is all one timezone, and there’s lots more
> of such F*ckishness.

And then there is the Indian Reservation inside Arizona, which *do*
observe DST, except a small part inside that reservation which do not.

It's turtles all the way down...

But honestly, if a structure do have the TZ information separate, then
you would assume that the core time is always UTC, which already makes
it half usable. Then we're just down to figuring out how to present
local time, which is a smaller subset of a problem.

Johnny

On 2023-01-08, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
> On 8 Jan 2023 17:50:11 GMT, greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>On 2023-01-08, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2023-01-08, greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-01-08, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think the best thing would be to eliminate DST entirely. No more
>>>>> semi-annual clock changes, no subtle bugs, and fewer road accidents
>>>>> due to people's circadian rhythm being disturbed. Unfortunately,
>>>>> here on the west coast of North America, most people are pushing
>>>>> to make DST permanent. So much for the sun being overhead at noon.
>>>>
>>>> But, But, that would mean making a decision
>>>
>>> That's the frustrating part - the governments of British Columbia,
>>> Washington, Oregon, and California are considering making such a
>>> decision. I mentioned it to a few people at the office and a lot
>>> of them are in favour. They'd rather have a dark morning, I guess.
>>>
>>
>>The whole thing was started, as far as I know, during WWI[1], so workers
>>could work their garden plots after coming home from the factories.
>>
>>[1] Along with other bad things.
>
> Benjamin Franklin started it back in colonial times. I think it was
> eventually done away with.
>
> No idea when it started up again. We were told in the 1950s that it
> was due to not all farmers having electricity, and when the Rural
> elctrification Project was done, it would be stopped.
>
> My grandfather asked the farmers he knew what they thought about it.
> The replied that the chickens and cows can't tell time. They lay eggs
> and get milked when needed. Clocks had nothing to do with it.
>
> The excuse to keep it going changes every few years.
> --
> Jim

I have great respect, from what I read anyway, for the late Mr.
Franklin, I wonder if he was taking the p*** sometimes, in things like
the electricity experiment, which must have killed a lot of the people
who trued it. The US was lucky to have had him at that time.

--
greymausg@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2023-01-09, jtmpreno <none@znet.com> wrote:
> On 1/8/2023 6:16 PM, John Levine wrote:
>> According to D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com>:
>>>> The whole thing was started, as far as I know, during WWI[1], so workers
>>>> could work their garden plots after coming home from the factories.
>>>>
>>>> [1] Along with other bad things.
>>
>> That is my understanding, give or take gardening vs just having more
>> daylight while people are awake.
>>
>>> Benjamin Franklin started it back in colonial times. I think it was
>>> eventually done away with.
>>
>> He may wwll have talked about it, but DST doesn't even make sense until
>> you have time zones and they weren't invented until the late 1800s when
>> railroads imposed them on the country since schedules with each city in
>> its own solar time were impossible to comprehend.
>>
>
> Permanent DST is bad.
>
> Permanent Standard Time is good.
>
> https://www.colorado.edu/today/2022/03/28/why-permanent-daylight-saving-time-bad-idea
>
>

There is the problem with satellite TV, we in .ie are at the extreme
edge of the area from which you have line-of-sight for direct satellite
access. Somewhere to the left of Spinions Hill. (Its been years since I
could adjust the dish)

--
greymausg@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2023-01-09, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>:
>>>https://www.colorado.edu/today/2022/03/28/why-permanent-daylight-saving-time-bad-idea
>>
>>His arguments are not convincing and are specific to where he lives.
>>
>>The time of sunset varies by an hour _within_ a timezone from east to west,
>>so any arguments about specific times are restricted to a single point
>>in the timezone.
>>
>>Longer evenings win in my book. DST forever!
>
> The anti-DST crowd is dominated by sad insomniacs who get up early in
> the morning and imagine that is good, or worse, virtuous.
>
> But we know they are wrong.
>
less boring than lying in the bed.

--
greymausg@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2023-01-09, Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jan 2023 14:08:08 -0600, D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Benjamin Franklin started it back in colonial times.
>
> Ben got a bum rap -- the letter to The Journal of Paris is obviously a
> joke.
>
>

Ben, I think, liked a joke

--
greymausg@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2023-01-09, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jan 2023 14:08:08 -0600, D.J. wrote:
>>
>> My grandfather asked the farmers he knew what they thought about it.
>> The replied that the chickens and cows can't tell time. They lay eggs
>> and get milked when needed. Clocks had nothing to do with it.
>
> I think chickens don't care, but cows do. They like a 24 hour cycle to
> get milked.
>
> As far as I know when switching clocks farmers gradually do it a few
> minutes earlier or later for some days to get cows adjusted.

A cow does not like her routine changed, and an angry cow is rapidly a
sick cow.

%s/cow/woman/g

--
greymausg@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2023-01-08, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jan 2023 18:32:51 GMT, johnson <root@example.net> wrote:
>>On 2023-01-08, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>>[...]
>>> I was looking online at a time zone map a few years ago, and smaller
>>> countries around Pakistan are a half hour ahead of the surrounding
>>> countries. seems silly to me.
>>>
>>> Can't find the one I saw years ago, but this page mentions some
>>> countries are 30 and 45 minutes ahead of others nearby. Also
>>> explanations of DST, etc.
>>>
>>
>>Nepal is UTC+05:45
>
> I noticed, on that page I linked to, that parts of Australia are 45
> minutes ahead in various places. I had no idea.

Oz is a big place. A friend had a row with his family, and threatened to
go there. I was watching a thing on utube at the time about the train
trip across the nullabour plain. Pensioners can do it free, AFAIK. Its
not Ireland. Shout-outs to all my relations there, and would they sign
my visa application? Ignore my age.

> --
> Jim

--
greymausg@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2023-01-09, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-01-08, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7 Jan 2023 09:52:57 GMT
>>>> Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But recently I've had to use the Qt library's QDateTime[1] type, and
>>>>> it occurred to me that this must be how people had to work before
>>>>> someone (in the 1960s?) said "let's stop this nonsense and just count
>>>>> seconds since some T=0".
>>>>
>>>> Late 60s given that the unix epoch is in 1970 (just).
>>>>
(over snipped)

Good luck with the sunburn. We in Ireland think we have
trouble with travellers :)

--
greymausg@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2023-01-09, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> wrote:
>> On So 08 Jan 2023 at 08:46, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 08 Jan 2023 06:39:52 GMT
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think the best thing would be to eliminate DST entirely. No more
>>>> semi-annual clock changes, no subtle bugs, and fewer road accidents
>>>> due to people's circadian rhythm being disturbed. Unfortunately,
>>>> here on the west coast of North America, most people are pushing
>>>> to make DST permanent. So much for the sun being overhead at noon.
>>>
>>> Go the whole hog and switch to UTC worldwide and accept that people
>>> work, eat, sleep etc. at different times.
>>
>> Yes, but that would be rational - so no chance.
>
> It wouldn’t really solve any problems, since people would still schedule
> their days around the sun. You’d still have the problem of call centers in
> India working overnight to deal with people in the US, for whom it’s
> daytime. I think it’s less confusing to have the clock time correspond,
> more or less, to the local solar time. It’s really just DST that’s the
> problem.
>
>
>

Some years ago, a company on Merrion Sq would start up at an odd hour.
Passers by wondered where in the World was that the time of business
hours. It folded shortly fter

--
greymausg@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2023-01-10, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> wrote:
>> On Mo 09 Jan 2023 at 07:04, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> wrote:
>>>> On So 08 Jan 2023 at 08:46, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 08 Jan 2023 06:39:52 GMT
>>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the best thing would be to eliminate DST entirely. No more
>>>>>> semi-annual clock changes, no subtle bugs, and fewer road accidents
>>>>>> due to people's circadian rhythm being disturbed. Unfortunately,
>>>>>> here on the west coast of North America, most people are pushing
>>>>>> to make DST permanent. So much for the sun being overhead at noon.
>>>>>
>>>>> Go the whole hog and switch to UTC worldwide and accept that people
>>>>> work, eat, sleep etc. at different times.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but that would be rational - so no chance.
>>>
>>> It wouldn’t really solve any problems, since people would still schedule
>>> their days around the sun.
>>
>> What does this have to do with what the clock shows? The sun rises, no
>> matter wether the clock shows 2, 4, 18 or 24.
>>
>>> You’d still have the problem of call centers in
>>> India working overnight to deal with people in the US, for whom it’s
>>> daytime.

perhaps we should go back to using Paris as Prime meridian? Or L.A, so
we can join the nuts?.

--
greymausg@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

On 2023-01-10, greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
[...]
> Good luck with the sunburn. We in Ireland think we have
> trouble with travellers :)

oh? I thought you'd sent them all over to Britain

On Di 10 Jan 2023 at 14:41, greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:

> On 2023-01-09, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 Jan 2023 14:08:08 -0600, D.J. wrote:
>>>
>>> My grandfather asked the farmers he knew what they thought about it.
>>> The replied that the chickens and cows can't tell time. They lay eggs
>>> and get milked when needed. Clocks had nothing to do with it.
>>
>> I think chickens don't care, but cows do. They like a 24 hour cycle to
>> get milked.
>>
>> As far as I know when switching clocks farmers gradually do it a few
>> minutes earlier or later for some days to get cows adjusted.
>
> A cow does not like her routine changed, and an angry cow is rapidly a
> sick cow.

But that's just what I'm saying. Don't change the routine of the cow
and milk always at the same time no matter what the click shows.
That should not be so diffcult to di and understand.

'Andreas

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 15:09:10 +0100, Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se>
wrote:
>On 2023-01-08 01:55, Peter Flass wrote:
>> I think Indiana is, or was, split between two timezones; Arizona doesn’t
>> observe DST; based on what I saw New Years, it appears Puerto Rico is 1/2
>> hour ahead of New York,; China is all one timezone, and there’s lots more
>> of such F*ckishness.
>
>And then there is the Indian Reservation inside Arizona, which *do*
>observe DST, except a small part inside that reservation which do not.

The part inside that doesn't is the Apache Reservation. The
reservation that does, are the Najaho.

--
Jim

On 1/10/2023 8:29 AM, greymaus wrote:
> On 2023-01-08, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>> On 8 Jan 2023 17:50:11 GMT, greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>> On 2023-01-08, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-01-08, greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-01-08, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the best thing would be to eliminate DST entirely. No more
>>>>>> semi-annual clock changes, no subtle bugs, and fewer road accidents
>>>>>> due to people's circadian rhythm being disturbed. Unfortunately,
>>>>>> here on the west coast of North America, most people are pushing
>>>>>> to make DST permanent. So much for the sun being overhead at noon.
>>>>>
>>>>> But, But, that would mean making a decision
>>>>
>>>> That's the frustrating part - the governments of British Columbia,
>>>> Washington, Oregon, and California are considering making such a
>>>> decision. I mentioned it to a few people at the office and a lot
>>>> of them are in favour. They'd rather have a dark morning, I guess.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The whole thing was started, as far as I know, during WWI[1], so workers
>>> could work their garden plots after coming home from the factories.
>>>
>>> [1] Along with other bad things.
>>
>> Benjamin Franklin started it back in colonial times. I think it was
>> eventually done away with.
>>
>> No idea when it started up again. We were told in the 1950s that it
>> was due to not all farmers having electricity, and when the Rural
>> elctrification Project was done, it would be stopped.
>>
>> My grandfather asked the farmers he knew what they thought about it.
>> The replied that the chickens and cows can't tell time. They lay eggs
>> and get milked when needed. Clocks had nothing to do with it.
>>
>> The excuse to keep it going changes every few years.
>> --
>> Jim
>
> I have great respect, from what I read anyway, for the late Mr.
> Franklin, I wonder if he was taking the p*** sometimes, in things like
> the electricity experiment, which must have killed a lot of the people
> who trued it. The US was lucky to have had him at that time.
>

If *not* for Benjamin Franklin's influence at the US Constitutional
Convention, there would *not* be a United States. One big sticking
point was slavery. The southern states wanted slaves to count as people
for the purposes of representation in the House of Representatives, the
northern states did *not* want slaves counted at all. The compromise
was to count each slave as 3/5's of a person for purpose of Representation.

From what I heard on documentaries, Franklin did *not* like slavery,
but he realized that there would *not* be another constitutional
convention. He had to make this opportunity work, or there would *be*
*no* United
States.

--

Charles Richmond

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 15:09:10 +0100, Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se>
> wrote:
>> On 2023-01-08 01:55, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> I think Indiana is, or was, split between two timezones; Arizona doesn’t
>>> observe DST; based on what I saw New Years, it appears Puerto Rico is 1/2
>>> hour ahead of New York,; China is all one timezone, and there’s lots more
>>> of such F*ckishness.
>>
>> And then there is the Indian Reservation inside Arizona, which *do*
>> observe DST, except a small part inside that reservation which do not.
>
> The part inside that doesn't is the Apache Reservation. The
> reservation that does, are the Najaho.

Hopi, IIRC

>
> --
> Jim
>

--
Pete

On 2023-01-10, Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> wrote:

> On Di 10 Jan 2023 at 14:41, greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-01-09, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 08 Jan 2023 14:08:08 -0600, D.J. wrote:
>>>
>>>> My grandfather asked the farmers he knew what they thought about it.
>>>> The replied that the chickens and cows can't tell time. They lay eggs
>>>> and get milked when needed. Clocks had nothing to do with it.
>>>
>>> I think chickens don't care, but cows do. They like a 24 hour cycle to
>>> get milked.
>>>
>>> As far as I know when switching clocks farmers gradually do it a few
>>> minutes earlier or later for some days to get cows adjusted.
>>
>> A cow does not like her routine changed, and an angry cow is rapidly a
>> sick cow.
>
> But that's just what I'm saying. Don't change the routine of the cow
> and milk always at the same time no matter what the click shows.
> That should not be so diffcult to di and understand.

The tower at our local airport goes the opposite way.
Their hours are currently 15-07Z, but change to 14-06Z
when DST is in effect. In other words, 7 a.m. to 11 p.m.
local time all year round.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

On 10 Jan 2023 15:01:16 GMT, greymaus wrote:
>
> perhaps we should go back to using Paris as Prime meridian? Or L.A, so
> we can join the nuts?.

Paris is kind of Greenwich anyway.

I think the idea was to completely abandon time zones.

So that people from now EST go to bed at 4:00, as it would be 23:00 for them.
--
Andreas

According to greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org>:
>perhaps we should go back to using Paris as Prime meridian? Or L.A, so
>we can join the nuts?.

I dunno. Paris switched from GMT to Nazi time in 1940 and never switched back.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly