On Sun, 08 Jan 2023 23:32:08 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach
<ank@spamfence.net> wrote:

> As far as I know when switching clocks farmers gradually do it a few
> minutes earlier or later for some days to get cows adjusted.

The orchard I used to live near had a simpler solution. When the
clocks were meddled with, he changed the numbers on the open-hours
sign to say the same time with the new name.

--
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGESEW/
The above message is a Usenet post.

On 2023-01-10, johnson <root@example.net> wrote:
> On 2023-01-10, greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> [...]
>> Good luck with the sunburn. We in Ireland think we have
>> trouble with travellers :)
>
> oh? I thought you'd sent them all over to Britain

Sometimes they come back. Perhaps Nantucket next?

On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 12:16:32 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 15:09:10 +0100, Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se>
>> wrote:
>>> On 2023-01-08 01:55, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> I think Indiana is, or was, split between two timezones; Arizona doesn?t
>>>> observe DST; based on what I saw New Years, it appears Puerto Rico is 1/2
>>>> hour ahead of New York,; China is all one timezone, and there?s lots more
>>>> of such F*ckishness.
>>>
>>> And then there is the Indian Reservation inside Arizona, which *do*
>>> observe DST, except a small part inside that reservation which do not.
>>
>> The part inside that doesn't is the Apache Reservation. The
>> reservation that does, are the Najaho.
>
>Hopi, IIRC

Okay, I disremembered then.
--
Jim

On 08/01/2023 08:46, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> Go the whole hog and switch to UTC worldwide and accept that people
> work, eat, sleep etc. at different times.

If I was in an office where midnight UTC fell in the middle of the day I
would probably get really confused over what date it was.

Andy

According to Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid>:
>On 08/01/2023 08:46, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> Go the whole hog and switch to UTC worldwide and accept that people
>> work, eat, sleep etc. at different times.
>
>If I was in an office where midnight UTC fell in the middle of the day I
>would probably get really confused over what date it was.

It's fortunate you're not an astronomer.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 22:10:13 +0000, John Levine wrote:

> According to Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid>:
>>On 08/01/2023 08:46, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> Go the whole hog and switch to UTC worldwide and accept that
people
>>> work, eat, sleep etc. at different times.
>>
>>If I was in an office where midnight UTC fell in the middle of the day I
>>would probably get really confused over what date it was.
>
> It's fortunate you're not an astronomer.

It's so nice living near Greenwich.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On 2023-01-13, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

> According to Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid>:
>
>> On 08/01/2023 08:46, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>
>>> Go the whole hog and switch to UTC worldwide and accept that people
>>> work, eat, sleep etc. at different times.
>>
>> If I was in an office where midnight UTC fell in the middle of the day I
>> would probably get really confused over what date it was.
>
> It's fortunate you're not an astronomer.

Or a pilot.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 21:32:39 +0000, Vir Campestris wrote:
>
> On 08/01/2023 08:46, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> Go the whole hog and switch to UTC worldwide and accept that people
>> work, eat, sleep etc. at different times.
>
> If I was in an office where midnight UTC fell in the middle of the day
> I would probably get really confused over what date it was.

If we were used that midnight fell for some of us in the middle of the
day it would be normal. Some might then not call it "high noon" but "high
night" then, but apart from that...
--
Andreas

Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 21:32:39 +0000, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>
>> On 08/01/2023 08:46, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> Go the whole hog and switch to UTC worldwide and accept that people
>>> work, eat, sleep etc. at different times.
>>
>> If I was in an office where midnight UTC fell in the middle of the day
>> I would probably get really confused over what date it was.
>
> If we were used that midnight fell for some of us in the middle of the
> day it would be normal. Some might then not call it "high noon" but "high
> night" then, but apart from that...

I still think this is the worst idea I’ve heard this year (so far)

--
Pete

On Sat, 14 Jan 2023 06:11:43 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 21:32:39 +0000, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>>
>>> On 08/01/2023 08:46, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>> Go the whole hog and switch to UTC worldwide and accept that people
>>>> work, eat, sleep etc. at different times.
>>>
>>> If I was in an office where midnight UTC fell in the middle of the day
>>> I would probably get really confused over what date it was.
>>
>> If we were used that midnight fell for some of us in the middle of the
>> day it would be normal. Some might then not call it "high noon" but "high
>> night" then, but apart from that...
>
> I still think this is the worst idea I’ve heard this year (so far)

Yes, my input was absurd intentional. I wanted to say, that timezones
otherwise were a good idea.
--
Andreas

On 14/01/2023 13:11, Peter Flass wrote:
> I still think this is the worst idea I’ve heard this year (so far)

The one I keep seeing that confuses me is references to 12:00am (or
12:00pm).

I have no clue which is noon and which is midnight.

Andy

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 12:23:22 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On 14/01/2023 13:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>> I still think this is the worst idea I’ve heard this year (so far)
>
>The one I keep seeing that confuses me is references to 12:00am (or
>12:00pm).
>
>I have no clue which is noon and which is midnight.
>
>Andy

Those are artificial anyway, created by the early LED clock makers. 12
PM is noon, and 12AM is midnight.

I've hear people do it redundantly.

"Its 12 PM Noon."

Which, is very silly.
--
Jim

Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:tq3fjq$2mp57
$10@dont-email.me:

> On 14/01/2023 13:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>> I still think this is the worst idea I’ve heard this year (so far)
>
> The one I keep seeing that confuses me is references to 12:00am (or
> 12:00pm).
>
> I have no clue which is noon and which is midnight.
>
> Andy

Consider that hours are counted modulo 12, so 12:00 is actually 00:00.
Then 00:00 am is followed by 00:01 am and 00:00 pm is fillowed by 00:01 pm.

In article <36sash1a624p0iqbmjravgf7ob5hfhrbfk@4ax.com>,
D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 12:23:22 +0000, Vir Campestris
><vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>On 14/01/2023 13:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> I still think this is the worst idea I�ve heard this year (so far)
>>
>>The one I keep seeing that confuses me is references to 12:00am (or
>>12:00pm).
>>
>>I have no clue which is noon and which is midnight.
>>
>>Andy
>
>Those are artificial anyway, created by the early LED clock makers. 12
>PM is noon, and 12AM is midnight.

.... except it turns out that there isn't really any standard on this issue.

https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/noon-12-am-or-12-pm reminds that
'am' means 'ante meridiem' and 'pm' 'post meridiem' - i.e., before and
after noon, respectively. noon is very much not 12 hours either before
or after itself, so neither '12 am' nor '12 pm' apply.

Wikipedia meanwhile at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock#Confusion_at_noon_and_midnight
documents some of the various ways in which 12 am and 12 pm are used in
opposite ways.

'noon' and 'midnight' seem to be the only safe ways to refer to, well,
noon and midnight in the context of a 12-hour clock.

// Christian

On 16/01/2023 17:03, Christian Brunschen wrote:
> 'noon' and 'midnight' seem to be the only safe ways to refer to, well,
> noon and midnight in the context of a 12-hour clock.

Alternatively refer to 11:59 or 12:01, where it is clear and probably
close enough.

Andy

D.J wrote:
....
> I've hear people do it redundantly.
>
> "Its 12 PM Noon."
>
> Which, is very silly.

i keep my clocks on 24hr time if there's an option to do
that.

songbird

On 2023-01-16, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 14/01/2023 13:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> I still think this is the worst idea I’ve heard this year (so far)
>
> The one I keep seeing that confuses me is references to 12:00am (or
> 12:00pm).
>
> I have no clue which is noon and which is midnight.

If an airplane crashes right on the Canada/U.S. border,
where do they bury the survivors?

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 17:47:32 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
<cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>On 2023-01-16, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 14/01/2023 13:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>>> I still think this is the worst idea I’ve heard this year (so far)
>>
>> The one I keep seeing that confuses me is references to 12:00am (or
>> 12:00pm).
>>
>> I have no clue which is noon and which is midnight.
>
>If an airplane crashes right on the Canada/U.S. border,
>where do they bury the survivors?

They send them to hospital, then home.
--
Jim

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 17:03:21 -0000 (UTC), cb@elaine.df.lth.se
(Christian Brunschen) wrote:
>In article <36sash1a624p0iqbmjravgf7ob5hfhrbfk@4ax.com>,
>D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>>On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 12:23:22 +0000, Vir Campestris
>><vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>On 14/01/2023 13:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> I still think this is the worst idea I’ve heard this year (so far)
>>>
>>>The one I keep seeing that confuses me is references to 12:00am (or
>>>12:00pm).
>>>
>>>I have no clue which is noon and which is midnight.
>>>
>>>Andy
>>
>>Those are artificial anyway, created by the early LED clock makers. 12
>>PM is noon, and 12AM is midnight.
>
>... except it turns out that there isn't really any standard on this issue.
>
>https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/noon-12-am-or-12-pm reminds that
>'am' means 'ante meridiem' and 'pm' 'post meridiem' - i.e., before and
>after noon, respectively. noon is very much not 12 hours either before
>or after itself, so neither '12 am' nor '12 pm' apply.
>
>Wikipedia meanwhile at
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock#Confusion_at_noon_and_midnight
>documents some of the various ways in which 12 am and 12 pm are used in
>opposite ways.
>
>'noon' and 'midnight' seem to be the only safe ways to refer to, well,
>noon and midnight in the context of a 12-hour clock.
>
>// Christian
>

There ya go, bringing facts into the discussion...

Anyway, I was unaware of that. Thanks.
--
Jim

Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>On 14/01/2023 13:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>> I still think this is the worst idea I’ve heard this year (so far)
>
>The one I keep seeing that confuses me is references to 12:00am (or
>12:00pm).
>
>I have no clue which is noon and which is midnight.

ante is latin for before
post is latin for after
peri is latin for now

Meridian is 'noon'.

Post meridian (pm) is after noon.
Ante Meridian (am) is before noon.

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 12:23:22 +0000, Vir Campestris wrote:
>
> On 14/01/2023 13:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>> I still think this is the worst idea I’ve heard this year (so far)
>
> The one I keep seeing that confuses me is references to 12:00am (or
> 12:00pm).
>
> I have no clue which is noon and which is midnight.

Same here. And although that I am in an area since more than ten years
using the AM/PM thing.
--
Andreas

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 17:03:21 -0000 (UTC), Christian Brunschen wrote:
>
> In article <36sash1a624p0iqbmjravgf7ob5hfhrbfk@4ax.com>,
> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>>On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 12:23:22 +0000, Vir Campestris
>><vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>On 14/01/2023 13:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> I still think this is the worst idea I’ve heard this year (so far)
>>>
>>>The one I keep seeing that confuses me is references to 12:00am (or
>>>12:00pm).
>>>
>>>I have no clue which is noon and which is midnight.
>>>
>>>Andy
>>
>>Those are artificial anyway, created by the early LED clock makers. 12
>>PM is noon, and 12AM is midnight.
>
> ... except it turns out that there isn't really any standard on this issue.
>
> https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/noon-12-am-or-12-pm reminds that
> 'am' means 'ante meridiem' and 'pm' 'post meridiem' - i.e., before and
> after noon, respectively. noon is very much not 12 hours either before
> or after itself, so neither '12 am' nor '12 pm' apply.

But then you have to learn and memorize what "meridiem" [1] and "ante" means.

> Wikipedia meanwhile at
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock#Confusion_at_noon_and_midnight
> documents some of the various ways in which 12 am and 12 pm are used in
> opposite ways.
>
> 'noon' and 'midnight' seem to be the only safe ways to refer to, well,
> noon and midnight in the context of a 12-hour clock.

My cheap-ish radio clock here only has two segments for the left most
part. It can display a 1 or if off. A little red dot comes on all 12
hours and is off the following 12.

My even cheaper microwave clock tries to be sneaky. It has four fully
equipped 7-segment units (I can set the timer to 88:88 if I wanted to
burn some stuff), but the clock is 12 only. It doesn't even bother
lighting up a small dot to indicate whether it's AM or PM.

If the 12 AM/PM and 24 hour fan boys want to come to an agreement what to
use in future it should be 24 in my opinion. Easier to learn for the
AM/PMers than the other way round. Plus military uses that since
"always", also NATO and US troops.

[1] Merriam-Webster says it means "midday". I rarely ran across the term
"midday" already.
--
Andreas

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 17:47:32 +0000, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2023-01-16, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 14/01/2023 13:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>>> I still think this is the worst idea I’ve heard this year (so far)
>>
>> The one I keep seeing that confuses me is references to 12:00am (or
>> 12:00pm).
>>
>> I have no clue which is noon and which is midnight.
>
> If an airplane crashes right on the Canada/U.S. border,
> where do they bury the survivors?

Wherever they eventually die.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 17:47:32 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
> On 2023-01-16, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 14/01/2023 13:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>>> I still think this is the worst idea I’ve heard this year (so far)
>>
>> The one I keep seeing that confuses me is references to 12:00am (or
>> 12:00pm).
>>
>> I have no clue which is noon and which is midnight.
>
> If an airplane crashes right on the Canada/U.S. border,
> where do they bury the survivors?

A similar problem came up in the French-Canadian movie Bon Cop Bad Cop
from 2006, when a dead body hung over the road sign between Ontario and
Quebec. So two cops came from either province showed up. The cop of the
side the lower body hung said something like "His ass is ours". *g*
--
Andreas

Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>On 14/01/2023 13:11, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> I still think this is the worst idea I’ve heard this year (so far)
>>
>>The one I keep seeing that confuses me is references to 12:00am (or
>>12:00pm).
>>
>>I have no clue which is noon and which is midnight.
>
> ante is latin for before
> post is latin for after
> peri is latin for now
>
> Meridian is 'noon'.
>
> Post meridian (pm) is after noon.
> Ante Meridian (am) is before noon.

right, we get that, but what is noon noon called
and why is it mislabeled all the time? :)

*tongue somewhat in cheek*

what it obviously should be is:

23:59:59pm -> 00:00:00sm -> 00:00:01am [ time goeth on ]

11:59:59am -> 12:00:00[n|m]m -> 12:00:01pm

satus (in latin) = start (english)

nunc (in latin) = now (english) or
middle (in latin) = medium (english)

i prefer the "n" version since it can't be confused
with "a", "p", "m" or "s"

songbird (noodling for fun...