-=> Spaul wrote to MRO <=-

Sp> Re: Testing the waters
Sp> By: MRO to Arelor on Wed Nov 30 2022 11:58 pm

Sp> Thanks for the reply. It is refreshing to know that this is an open
Sp> minded board. I know that everyone is sick to death of this topic but I
Sp> just wanted to see if I might some grief about even bringing it up.

Sp> You are correct about FSXNET. That was the BBS I originally set up only
Sp> to find the sysop shutting down anything releated to other opinions
Sp> about the pandemic. I guess he had his reasons.

Sp> To be honest, synchronet was 10 times easier to set up. Once I sorted
Sp> out the port issues I was getting, I was up and running in no time.

Sp> Looking forward to participating on the board. I have many other
Sp> interests so I might be hitting people up on more techy questions.
Sp> Cheers!

Sp> ---
Sp> = Synchronet = Gypsy Ryder BBS

One thing I like about this particular corner of the world is the open
discussion you can have. There might be grief, but its pretty easy to simply
not bother following the thread anymore, so there really isn't any excuse for
bitching.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
� Synchronet � MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org

-=> HusTler wrote to mro <=-

Hu> Re: FSXNet
Hu> By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Dec 02 2022 09:40 am

> > well it's his msg network, he can do what he wants with it.
> > I don't know why people would want to have censorship if it's not for

Hu> "It's his msg Network" Then FSX is not a "network" it's just a chat
Hu> room run by some big headed SysOp. SysOps need to drop this so called
Hu> network so it will just die out once in for all.

Once you create a network and open it up, you can't then complain about what
people are wanting to discuss. fsxNET is OK, but the discussion is mostly
trivial and anytime anything ventures to something less than trivial, you have
to stop yourself so you don't cross the line.

The problem is, there are many, many places on the internet where you can just
have trivial discussions. There are fewer where you can discuss anything you
like, without having to concern yourself with Woke censorship or malevolent
monitoring.

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
� Synchronet � MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org

-=> Spaul wrote to All <=-

Sp> I'm not sure what the rules are here on DOVE.net concerning the whole
Sp> pandemic. If this type of discussion is taboo or even wanted in this
Sp> community, let me know and I won't "go there".

Sp> On the other hand BBS GypsyRyder telnet: gypsy.8bit.ca is where anyone
Sp> intereted in this topic can join the discussion. There is a ton of info
Sp> links, videos and documentaries on this and other topics the MSM won't
Sp> cover.

Sp> What are your two cents? I won't be offended.

Sp> ---
Sp> = Synchronet = Gypsy Ryder BBS

I dont have much to say on the pandemic itself, but it showed me that people
who are supposedly educated and class themselves as the bastions of rationality
dropped critical thinking in order to score points. Things quickly turned into
a political crapfest where one side wanted to prove the other was
science-denying right-wing conspiracy theorists. In order to do that, they
claimed that they represented "science", and believed that the mainstream
narrative was indeed based on the best science there was. In order to take
this position, people refused to look that perhaps state actors were using this
as an opportunity to control the population, that perhaps Big Pharma might put
money over safety and efficacy. People lost any sense of scepticism so they
could portray themselves as being with the 'narrative', which was seen as
science and progress.

I'm not going to comment on the vaccines specifically, but I think other social
motives took root, and bad information was flowing over all facets of any
debate and discussion.

.... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
� Synchronet � MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org

Re: FSXNet
By: HusTler to mro on Fri Dec 02 2022 04:47 pm

> Re: FSXNet
> By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Dec 02 2022 09:40 am
>
> > > well it's his msg network, he can do what he wants with it.
> > > I don't know why people would want to have censorship if it's not for
>
> "It's his msg Network" Then FSX is not a "network" it's just a chat room
> run by some big headed SysOp. SysOps need to drop this so called network so
> it will just die out once in for all.
>

well it's something the people involved like to participate in so let them play in their sandbox.

there's no users anymore really, just sysops. so let them do what they want.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Testing the waters
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Fri Dec 02 2022 06:01 pm

>
> I was one of the ones that suggested that FSX did not need a Political echo
> because people like that would post there just to start stuff and, since
> that network has rules of conduct, it would be a moderation nightmare.
>

if you're a good moderator, it wouldn't be a nightmare.

banning politics and religion talk is cowardly, but it's his network
and he can do what he wants.

I'm a live and let live kind of guy, even if I don't like something it has a right to be there and not be destroyed just because I don't like what they do and how they do it.

years ago i helped this one guy(one of many) setup his ftn network, using help another long term sysop gave me. I gave him a lot of ideas and help. i ran a site with services and he essentially copied me by using some of the same scripts i did and he edited the code to make it seem like it was his.

He stopped being my friend and acted like he didn't even know me. I let god sort it out and in the end he is gone and I am still here. i did yank my services but that's because It was a lot of work sometimes and some things that i offered were dated.

so people can go play in avon's sandbox. maybe that's what they want.
he's protecting them from the bad things like politics and religion!
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Testing the waters
By: Dumas Walker to HUSTLER on Fri Dec 02 2022 05:55 pm

> > Am I hearing (Reading) this right? Post's were deleted because somone
> > dislike
> > an opinion? FSXNET is that bad? I remember when fidonet used to do that.
> > How disapointing. I'll have to take those networks off my scan list.
>
> Sysops may have deleted messages from their individual boards, but there
>
> is
> no way they got deleted from the whole network. I am on that network and
> have never been asked by Paul/Avon or anyone else to remove messages from
> FSX areas on my BBS.

well a hub can use filtering. they can put a hold on sending out posts that
come in and nuke them before they go out. they can also cut people from the network.

---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Testing the waters
By: Boraxman to Spaul on Sat Dec 03 2022 07:26 pm

>
> One thing I like about this particular corner of the world is the open
> discussion you can have. There might be grief, but its pretty easy to
> simply not bother following the thread anymore, so there really isn't any
> excuse for bitching.

well one good thing about being a sysop is learning how to filter people.
i dont filter people with different views, or anything like that.

if someone is a 'me too' type of troll i just block them.
https://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm

also if someone tries to troll me i will push their buttons and play along just for entertainment. Like i wont read what they post to me and I make it obvious by saying so if they don't pick it up. i'll respond to one sentence.

i'm old and i dont get worked up.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: FSXNet
By: Boraxman to HusTler on Sat Dec 03 2022 07:30 pm

> -=> HusTler wrote to mro <=-
>
> Hu> Re: FSXNet
> Hu> By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Dec 02 2022 09:40 am
>
> > > well it's his msg network, he can do what he wants with it.
> > > I don't know why people would want to have censorship if it's not for
>
> Hu> "It's his msg Network" Then FSX is not a "network" it's just a chat
> Hu> room run by some big headed SysOp. SysOps need to drop this so called
> Hu> network so it will just die out once in for all.
>
> Once you create a network and open it up, you can't then complain about what
> people are wanting to discuss. fsxNET is OK, but the discussion is mostly
> trivial and anytime anything ventures to something less than trivial, you
> have to stop yourself so you don't cross the line.
>
> The problem is, there are many, many places on the internet where you can
> just have trivial discussions. There are fewer where you can discuss
> anything you like, without having to concern yourself with Woke censorship
> or malevolent monitoring.

yeah but apparently some people like that sort of thing. it's good to keep those types in one place if you can.

i'm guilty as charged though. my irc network is my sandbox.
i tell people right away that we arent really bbs orientated anymore because people don't like discussing that subject at length. almost everyone i know in there is someone i've known like 15-20 years and if someone comes by with the bbs talk i send them to irc.synchro.net.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Testing the waters
By: Boraxman to Spaul on Sat Dec 03 2022 07:41 pm

> I dont have much to say on the pandemic itself, but it showed me that people
> who are supposedly educated and class themselves as the bastions of
> rationality dropped critical thinking in order to score points. Things
> quickly turned into a political crapfest where one side wanted to prove the
> other was science-denying right-wing conspiracy theorists. In order to do
> that, they claimed that they represented "science", and believed that the
> mainstream narrative was indeed based on the best science there was. In
> order to take this position, people refused to look that perhaps state
> actors were using this as an opportunity to control the population, that
> perhaps Big Pharma might put money over safety and efficacy. People lost
> any sense of scepticism so they could portray themselves as being with the
> 'narrative', which was seen as science and progress.
>
> I'm not going to comment on the vaccines specifically, but I think other
> social motives took root, and bad information was flowing over all facets of
> any debate and discussion.
>

we had people saying 'trust the science' ,etc etc when they weren't reading the science. and it was hard to keep up because it was changing every month.

"don't need a mask" "wear a mask" "don't wear a mask" "Wear a mask indoors by yourself" j/k

"you will die if you don't get the vaccine. if you get the vaccine you will never get covid. "

I don't trust the science anymore. everything became political and I dont trust anything.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

-=> HusTler wrote to mro <=-

Hu> Re: FSXNet
Hu> By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Dec 02 2022 09:40 am

> > well it's his msg network, he can do what he wants with it.
> > I don't know why people would want to have censorship if it's not for

Hu> "It's his msg Network" Then FSX is not a "network" it's just a
Hu> chat room run by some big headed SysOp. SysOps need to drop this
Hu> so called network so it will just die out once in for all.

Wrong on all counts.

.... A day without sunshine is like night.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
� Synchronet � Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

-=> HusTler wrote to MRO <=-

Hu> Re: Testing the waters
Hu> By: MRO to Arelor on Wed Nov 30 2022 11:58 pm

> > > This is not FSXNet. You are allowed to have impopular opinions. IMO
> > > the real appeal of secluded places such as this one is being able to
> > > have opinions that would get you banned elsewhere.

> yeah i heard they had some drama there and posts get deleted.
> my buddy nick andre said i was banned from there but I think i only posted l

Hu> Am I hearing (Reading) this right? Post's were deleted because
Hu> somone disliked an opinion? FSXNET is that bad? I remember when
Hu> fidonet used to do that. How disapointing. I'll have to take
Hu> those networks off my scan list.

No, you're not hearing that right. MRO is an idiot. Don't be an idiot
too.

.... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
� Synchronet � Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

> >
> > I was one of the ones that suggested that FSX did not need a Political
cho
> > because people like that would post there just to start stuff and, since
> > that network has rules of conduct, it would be a moderation nightmare.
> >

> if you're a good moderator, it wouldn't be a nightmare.

If you take into consideration the network's rules about "playing nice," it
would be a nightmare. My advice was that if he started a Politics echo
that he'd either have to "let it go" or he'd have his hands full constantly
policing it.

* SLMR 2.1a * "Buck McCoy?!? He was bigger than opium!"

---
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

-=> MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

MR> Re: Re: Testing the waters
MR> By: Boraxman to Spaul on Sat Dec 03 2022 07:26 pm

>
> One thing I like about this particular corner of the world is the open
> discussion you can have. There might be grief, but its pretty easy to
> simply not bother following the thread anymore, so there really isn't any
> excuse for bitching.

MR> well one good thing about being a sysop is learning how to filter
MR> people. i dont filter people with different views, or anything like
MR> that.

MR> if someone is a 'me too' type of troll i just block them.
MR> https://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm

MR> also if someone tries to troll me i will push their buttons and play
MR> along just for entertainment. Like i wont read what they post to me and
MR> I make it obvious by saying so if they don't pick it up. i'll respond
MR> to one sentence.

MR> i'm old and i dont get worked up.

Fair enough. I'm not a Free Speech absolutist. I'm a supporter of Free THOUGHT.
You shouldn't be banned because of what you are saying, but I don't see an
issue with blocking someone because of HOW they are speaking.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
� Synchronet � MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org

-=> MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

MR> Re: Re: Testing the waters
MR> By: Boraxman to Spaul on Sat Dec 03 2022 07:41 pm

> I dont have much to say on the pandemic itself, but it showed me that people
> who are supposedly educated and class themselves as the bastions of
> rationality dropped critical thinking in order to score points. Things
> quickly turned into a political crapfest where one side wanted to prove the
> other was science-denying right-wing conspiracy theorists. In order to do
> that, they claimed that they represented "science", and believed that the
> mainstream narrative was indeed based on the best science there was. In
> order to take this position, people refused to look that perhaps state
> actors were using this as an opportunity to control the population, that
> perhaps Big Pharma might put money over safety and efficacy. People lost
> any sense of scepticism so they could portray themselves as being with the
> 'narrative', which was seen as science and progress.
>
> I'm not going to comment on the vaccines specifically, but I think other
> social motives took root, and bad information was flowing over all facets of
> any debate and discussion.
>

MR> we had people saying 'trust the science' ,etc etc when they weren't
MR> reading the science. and it was hard to keep up because it was
MR> changing every month.

MR> "don't need a mask" "wear a mask" "don't wear a mask" "Wear a mask
MR> indoors by yourself" j/k

MR> "you will die if you don't get the vaccine. if you get the vaccine you
MR> will never get covid. "

MR> I don't trust the science anymore. everything became political and I
MR> dont trust anything. ---

It wasn't really "science" that was informing their views in many cases though.
People didn't know the science, or how science works. Science had little to
do with it.

I knew things would turn sour right at the very start. Before it was declared
a Pandemic, people were in a tizzy over others choosing to stay away from
Chinese establishments. There was that Mayor of an Italian city who encouraged
people to go out and hug Asians. From the very beginning people had a
narrative, a heirachy of values to support.

This is the problem with the West, we judge everything ideologically. Is this
"racist". Is this "bigoted". Could this be potentially construed or used by
"racists". Does this fact embolden the right. So on...
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
� Synchronet � MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org

-=> MRO wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

MR> Re: Testing the waters
MR> By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Fri Dec 02 2022 06:01 pm

>
> I was one of the ones that suggested that FSX did not need a Political echo
> because people like that would post there just to start stuff and, since
> that network has rules of conduct, it would be a moderation nightmare.
>

MR> if you're a good moderator, it wouldn't be a nightmare.

MR> banning politics and religion talk is cowardly, but it's his network
MR> and he can do what he wants.

MR> I'm a live and let live kind of guy, even if I don't like something it
MR> has a right to be there and not be destroyed just because I don't like
MR> what they do and how they do it.

MR> years ago i helped this one guy(one of many) setup his ftn network,
MR> using help another long term sysop gave me. I gave him a lot of ideas
MR> and help. i ran a site with services and he essentially copied me by
MR> using some of the same scripts i did and he edited the code to make it
MR> seem like it was his.

MR> He stopped being my friend and acted like he didn't even know me. I
MR> let god sort it out and in the end he is gone and I am still here. i
MR> did yank my services but that's because It was a lot of work sometimes
MR> and some things that i offered were dated.

MR> so people can go play in avon's sandbox. maybe that's what they want.
MR> he's protecting them from the bad things like politics and religion!

He wants a particular tone, which I understand. If someone wants that kind of
control they shouldn't create a Net and invite everyone to partake. He has his
own BBS, and there is he is free to make up all manner of rules and
restrictions.

fsxNet is upfront about the no politics or religion though, which is far more
honourable than pretending you're about open discussion then selectively
censoring and banning to suit an agenda, like big Social Media. So yeah, it
does make fsxNet a little banal (though it is busy), but this rule is of little
consequence in the end.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
� Synchronet � MiND'S EYE BBS - Melb, Australia - mindseye.synchronetbbs.org

Re: Testing the waters
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sat Dec 03 2022 10:51 am

>
>
> > if you're a good moderator, it wouldn't be a nightmare.
>
> If you take into consideration the network's rules about "playing nice," it
> would be a nightmare. My advice was that if he started a Politics echo
> that he'd either have to "let it go" or he'd have his hands full constantly
> policing it.
>

dude, every network has that vague rule.
people can debate politics if they actually debate instead of parrotting or just stating their opinions.

the kinds of people that are unwavering are the wrong people for debating.

I'd say just let it go unless it goes to death threats or other abuse.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

-=> MRO wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

> > if you're a good moderator, it wouldn't be a nightmare.

> If you take into consideration the network's rules about "playing nice," it
> would be a nightmare. My advice was that if he started a Politics echo
> that he'd either have to "let it go" or he'd have his hands full constantly
> policing it.

MR> dude, every network has that vague rule.

It's not "vague" in FSXnet.

MR> people can debate politics if they actually debate instead of
MR> parrotting or just stating their opinions.

But that isn't what people do.

MR> the kinds of people that are unwavering are the wrong people for
MR> debating.

Like you? Unwavering?

MR> I'd say just let it go unless it goes to death threats or other
MR> abuse.

Thankfully, what you say doesn't matter.

.... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
� Synchronet � Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

> > If you take into consideration the network's rules about "playing nice,"
t > > would be a nightmare. My advice was that if he started a Politics echo
> > that he'd either have to "let it go" or he'd have his hands full
onstantly
> > policing it.
> >

> dude, every network has that vague rule.
> people can debate politics if they actually debate instead of parrotting or
u > stating their opinions.

Correct, but that network actually means it. :)

* SLMR 2.1a * "You've stolen my soul!" - Granpa Simpson

---
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Testing the waters
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Dec 04 2022 09:55 am

Paul began these rules back almost a year ago when I was carrying FsX, regarding political/religion conversations because of all the talk about Trump. It's interesting this is still going on.

Mick

---
■ Synchronet ■ Bad Poetry Blues - centralontarioremote.com:2300

Re: Testing the waters
By: Mickey to Dumas Walker on Sun Dec 04 2022 06:05 pm

> Re: Testing the waters
> By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sun Dec 04 2022 09:55 am
>
> Paul began these rules back almost a year ago when I was carrying FsX,
> regarding political/religion conversations because of all the talk about
> Trump. It's interesting this is still going on.
>

nah there was stuff going on long before this.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Testing the waters
By: MRO to Arelor on Fri Dec 02 2022 12:18 am

> so do they lean towards socialist shit? the guy running it is in NZ, right?

Correct on both accounts.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

-=> Mickey wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

Mi> Paul began these rules back almost a year ago when I was carrying FsX,
Mi> regarding political/religion conversations because of all the talk
Mi> about Trump. It's interesting this is still going on.

The US is still as politically divided, and I, for one, appreciate having a
politics-free zone. There are certainly enough areas on Fidonet and
othernets to get into debates (that inevitably bleed into the other areas),
we don't need all of them to do so.

.... Listen to the quiet voice
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
� Synchronet � .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

Re: Re: Testing the waters
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Mickey on Mon Dec 05 2022 06:26 am

>
> The US is still as politically divided, and I, for one, appreciate having a
> politics-free zone. There are certainly enough areas on Fidonet and
> othernets to get into debates (that inevitably bleed into the other areas),
> we don't need all of them to do so.
>

you had no problem talking about politics when trump was in charge.
but now your president is shitting his pants and being a fool every day so you
want to keep your head buried in the sand.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: Testing the waters
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Mickey on Mon Dec 05 2022 06:26 am

> The US is still as politically divided, and I, for one, appreciate having a
> politics-free zone. There are certainly enough areas on Fidonet and
> othernets to get into debates (that inevitably bleed into the other areas),
> we don't need all of them to do so.

I understand why somebody would want a politics-free zone, but in practical
terms, FSXNet only seems to be it.

As I have mentioned earlier, if you follow the party line nobody will have
issue with you even if you push the boundaries. If you don't follow the party
line, the thread will be flagged as political and the subject torn down.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: Testing the waters
By: Arelor to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Dec 05 2022 12:05 pm

> Re: Re: Testing the waters
> By: poindexter FORTRAN to Mickey on Mon Dec 05 2022 06:26 am
>
> > The US is still as politically divided, and I, for one, appreciate having
> > a politics-free zone. There are certainly enough areas on Fidonet and
> > othernets to get into debates (that inevitably bleed into the other
> > areas), we don't need all of them to do so.
>
> I understand why somebody would want a politics-free zone, but in practical
> terms, FSXNet only seems to be it.
>
> As I have mentioned earlier, if you follow the party line nobody will have
> issue with you even if you push the boundaries. If you don't follow the
> party line, the thread will be flagged as political and the subject torn
> down.
>

there's a guy right now that started a political conversation and said no politics. really stupid.

https://vert.synchro.net/?page=001-forum.ssjs&sub=fsx_gen&thread=98732

and then it just degerates into stupid banter.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::