Re: "Highly profitable" Bay S
By: Andeddu to Moondog on Fri Jul 15 2022 02:58 pm

> I had hundreds of VHS tapes but they all went into the trash because there
> was no way to really use them now that video recorders are completely
> archaic and rare to see. I cannot remember how long it has been since I saw

You'd be surprised how much people still watch VHS in the small/forest/mountain towns. Give your VHS tapes to the thrift stores in one of those.

---
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Re: "Highly profitable" Bay S
By: Belly to Arelor on Fri Jul 15 2022 11:48 am

> Re: "Highly profitable" Bay Street Video store n Toronto thrives
> By: Arelor to Ogg on Thu Jul 14 2022 05:44 pm
>
> > Satellite has two problems. First, latency sucks, so if you want to join
> > those streams in which you chat in real time with the streamer, you are i
> > a rough ride. Second, satellite connectivity is too expensive for what th
> > offer. Also most plans I could hire here have unworkable data caps.
>
> Expensive, yes, but Starlink has licked the latency problem. And afaik no ca
>
> o
> (O)
> BeLLy
>
In the reviews I've watched, latency was in the 20-30ms range, comparable to
some cable. Download speeds were comparable with cable. So far they haven't
seen a need for throttling or fair access policies

---
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Re: "Highly profitable" Bay S
By: Andeddu to MRO on Fri Jul 15 2022 02:46 pm

> Re: "Highly profitable" Bay S
> By: MRO to Moondog on Thu Jul 14 2022 10:29 am
>
> > do you need a movie forever? i don't.
> > i have favorite movies but i dont watch them every year.
>
> I threw out most of my old DVDs years ago but kept some of the classics such
> the original Star Wars Trilogy along with around 10 other movies that I didn
> want to part with. I obviously haven't used the discs becuase most of those
> movies, along with Star Wars, are on either Netflix or Disney+. They are the
> just incase the internet goes down.
>
Before Disney+ I recall Disney would only release their classic stuff every
couple of years, claiming you better get it now or you'll never know when
the next chance will come. In other words, the next time your girl can get
all the princess films, she will be too old to care about them.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: "Highly profitable" Bay S
By: Phigan to Andeddu on Sat Jul 16 2022 12:14 am

> Re: "Highly profitable" Bay S
> By: Andeddu to Moondog on Fri Jul 15 2022 02:58 pm
>
> > I had hundreds of VHS tapes but they all went into the trash because ther
> > was no way to really use them now that video recorders are completely
> > archaic and rare to see. I cannot remember how long it has been since I s
>
> You'd be surprised how much people still watch VHS in the small/forest/mount
>
I have a production grade VCR I took home from work when they were throwing
it out. It had very low hours on it. It's the type which has multiple
inputs and outputs, in the front and back. I use it for media transfer of
old tapes to digital files.

8 years ago one of my cousins passed away, and my aunt and uncle asked me to h
elp sort through his stuff. and recover a bunch of receipts he had in pdf form
at from his laptop. One of the items in the stash was a Betamax player, the
sony with the top loading feature. There is a videotape in it full of old TV
shows from the late 70's. He had an early camcorder (vhs) that was real
cool, except it is missing some proprietary cable and power supply. The main
unit is a battery powered VCR that fits in a carry bag, and there's a video ca
mera that plugs into it through a cable with a huge connector. You'd sling th
e recorder over your shoulder when you used the camera on the move.

---
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Re: "Highly profitable" Bay Street Video store n Toronto thrives
By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Tue Jul 12 2022 09:09 am

> I'm not sure I'd call optical formats unnecessary.. You can't always rely
> on your internet always working 100%, and same for a streaming service.
> Streaming services randomly pull content from their services too, so you
> can't even rely on something always being available to watch there. Those
> are a few of the reasons I still like to buy movies on physical formats.

I don't disagree. But do we need to preserve optical formats with their limited storage capacity? Why not just all invest in cheap storage and set up NAS devices. QNAP has some great models, and that's what I've done - ripping all of my personal movies so that I don't have to insert discs anymore, and I just stream it on my own home network. No Internet needed. ;)
_____
-=: Kaelon :=-

---
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> I like to rotate between streaming services. I'll sign up with one for 2-3
> months, watch a lot of the box sets and movies I want to see then move onto th
> next one for 2-3 months. I have had 2/3 services being paid for concurrently
> but it's a waste of money as I don't watch as much TV as most of the
> population.

A work friend of mine was trying to talk me into doing something like that.
He apparently signs up for Hulu whenever they have a free first month
deal, watches all of the new episodes of the show he wants to see
("Letterkenny"), and then ditches it before he gets charged.

As I don't usually enjoy binge watching, I would figure I would try that
and not get through half of the new season of whatever (like "The Expanse"!)
before I started getting charged.

* SLMR 2.1a * Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?

---
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Re: "Highly profitable" Bay Street Video store n Toronto thrives
By: Boraxman to Nightfox on Fri Jul 15 2022 08:57 pm

> I don't mind buying digital if I get to keep the file. I've bought music off Bandc
> you can put the file on.

Similar here. I prefer to buy physical if available, but some goods are not worth
getting a hard copy off. A DRM free file suffices for lots of items, such as RPG
adventures distributed as 4-pages PDFs...

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
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Re: "Highly profitable" Bay S
By: Andeddu to Moondog on Fri Jul 15 2022 02:58 pm

> Re: "Highly profitable" Bay S
> By: Moondog to MRO on Fri Jul 15 2022 02:25 am
>
> > Some films or shows I like to collect because they are not available online
> > or demand you to pay for each episode. I don't like the idea of "buying" a
> > virtual copy, then have the service go out of business or pull that tile
> > from it's library.
> >
> > On VHS I have the original Star Wars trilogy from before Lucas
> > digitally "enhanced" the series, and did stupid things like making Greedo
> > shoot first.
>
> I had hundreds of VHS tapes but they all went into the trash because there was
> no way to really use them now that video recorders are completely archaic and
> rare to see. I cannot remember how long it has been since I saw an old VHS
> recorder. The one my parents had was put into storage but eventually disposed
> of because we had amassed a huge DVD collection. I now see that DVDs are going
> the same way as VHS tapes. I have limited room so I am unable to have too many
> vintage devices around. It's a shame because I would love to preserve some more
> old tech.
>
> ---
> ■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

I saw the writing on the wall with VCRs and converted most of my VHS to digital
formats using an old VCR and avideo capture module. Most of the movies that were
actually worth it I got in DVD format too, since VHS was not that great.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: "Highly profitable" Bay S
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Sat Jul 16 2022 12:51 am

> Before Disney+ I recall Disney would only release their classic stuff every
> couple of years, claiming you better get it now or you'll never know when
> the next chance will come. In other words, the next time your girl can get
> all the princess films, she will be too old to care about them.
>

They called it The Disney Vault. It is a textbook example of generating artificial
scarcity to overblow the price of your products.

The idea is that they only released the classics once every 20 years or so, and then
they locked them in The Vault. That way, they could release the movies as novelties
each time they did, and they would be completely new for each generation of kids.

Moviemakers know they make much more money from the first days after a theatrical
release than they do from long term royalties and DVD sales.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
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Re: "Highly profitable" Bay Street Video store n Toronto thrives
By: Kaelon to Nightfox on Sat Jul 16 2022 09:21 am

> Re: "Highly profitable" Bay Street Video store n Toronto thrives
> By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Tue Jul 12 2022 09:09 am
>
> > I'm not sure I'd call optical formats unnecessary.. You can't always rely
> > on your internet always working 100%, and same for a streaming service.
> > Streaming services randomly pull content from their services too, so you
> > can't even rely on something always being available to watch there. Those
> > are a few of the reasons I still like to buy movies on physical formats.
>
> I don't disagree. But do we need to preserve optical formats with their limited st
> so that I don't have to insert discs anymore, and I just stream it on my own home
> _____
> -=: Kaelon :=-
>
> ---
> ■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

I have had this same conversation elsewhere.

Your regular IT Microchiphead has the discipline required to sotre everything in a NAS
and take the necessary steps to make sure the data will last as long as the IT
Microchiphead.

Most people does not have the discipline required.

Meanwhile, a commercial DVD is likely to work for long without any special attention
as long as you keep a functioning DVD appliance around. Most digital iliterates
understand that concept, and that is why comercial disks are a better aproach for
them.

I agree that a movie has better chances of surviving half a century if it is stored in
a SAN cluster, equiped with a tape robot and with regular integrity checks running in
the background. However, good luck making regular people set that up...

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
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-=> Andeddu wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

An> I like to rotate between streaming services. I'll sign up with one for
An> 2-3 months, watch a lot of the box sets and movies I want to see then
An> move onto the next one for 2-3 months.

That's a great way of doing it, and makes the most of the streaming model.
With cable, it was a pain to add/subtract channels, and they always bundled
them to make changing plans difficult.

My mom had always had problems trying to reduce services to cut costs -
they'd come up with a calculation to show she'd pay more without HBO.

I started managing her contracts, and suddenly she's saving money on a plan
they "conveniently" found to offer to loyal customers.

.... The Colonies of Man lie trampled at our feet.
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
� Synchronet � .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

Re: "Highly profitable" Bay Street Video store n Toronto thrives
By: Kaelon to Nightfox on Sat Jul 16 2022 09:21 am

Ka> I don't disagree. But do we need to preserve optical formats with their
Ka> limited storage capacity? Why not just all invest in cheap storage and set
Ka> up NAS devices. QNAP has some great models, and that's what I've done -
Ka> ripping all of my personal movies so that I don't have to insert discs
Ka> anymore, and I just stream it on my own home network. No Internet needed.
Ka> ;)

I agree. And after a while, when optical disc formats started to decline, I wondered if they'd start selling movies on USB flash drives instead. But of course, that hasn't happened.. They still want to be able to control how we watch the content and try to prevent people from making copies of it.

I've ripped some of my movies - Not all, but some, and put them on my Plex media server. Eventually, I think it would probably be good to just rip them all and buy a USB hard drive to back them up onto.

Nightfox

---
■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Re: "Highly profitable" Bay Street Video store n Toronto thrives
By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Sat Jul 16 2022 04:09 pm

> I agree. And after a while, when optical disc formats started to decline, I
> wondered if they'd start selling movies on USB flash drives instead. But of
> course, that hasn't happened.. They still want to be able to control how we
> watch the content and try to prevent people from making copies of it.

When I was working at Broadcom, one of our device functions was a memory card (e.g. SD Card) reader/writer, and the word from the marketing dept. was that Hollywood was going to start distributing or renting movies on SD Cards. I don't think that every transpired, but there were companies definitely planning to do so.
https://www.michaelsinsight.com/2009/11/blockbuster-looks-to-distribute-movies-on-sd-memory-cards.html

In any case, I think they could've distributed DRM-movies on USB flash drives or SD Card if they really wanted to.
--
digital man (rob)

Sling Blade quote #7:
Karl: I don't reckon the Good Lord would send anybody like you to Hades.
Norco, CA WX: 90.5°F, 34.0% humidity, 11 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
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Re: "Highly profitable" Bay Street Video store n Toronto thrives
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Sat Jul 16 2022 05:19 pm

DM> When I was working at Broadcom, one of our device functions was a memory
DM> card (e.g. SD Card) reader/writer, and the word from the marketing dept.
DM> was that Hollywood was going to start distributing or renting movies on SD
DM> Cards. I don't think that every transpired, but there were companies
DM> definitely planning to do so.
DM> https://www.michaelsinsight.com/2009/11/blockbuster-looks-to-distribute-mo
DM> vies-on-sd-memory-cards.html

DM> In any case, I think they could've distributed DRM-movies on USB flash
DM> drives or SD Card if they really wanted to.

Interesting.. I didn't realize the industry was close to doing that.

I've bought some movies on blu-ray & DVD that have a code where you can redeem an online digital streaming version. I've noticed some of those let you download the movie locally, but the ones I've redeemed seem to be DRM-protected and only playable in the app it was downloaded with.

Nightfox

---
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Re: "Highly profitable" Bay Street Video store n Toronto thrives
By: Arelor to Kaelon on Sat Jul 16 2022 12:26 pm

> Your regular IT Microchiphead has the discipline required to sotre
> everything in a NAS and take the necessary steps to make sure the data will
> last as long as the IT Microchiphead.
>
> Most people does not have the discipline required.
>
> Meanwhile, a commercial DVD is likely to work for long without any special
> attention as long as you keep a functioning DVD appliance around. Most
> digital iliterates understand that concept, and that is why comercial disks
> are a better aproach for them.
>
> I agree that a movie has better chances of surviving half a century if it is
> stored in a SAN cluster, equiped with a tape robot and with regular
> integrity checks running in the background. However, good luck making
> regular people set that up...

I don't disagree that for -archival- purposes, optical disc formats probably have a longer staying power than properly configured RAID arrays on NAS devices. But from a utility perspective, optical media is still a pain in the ass. If we're concerned about people not knowing how to manage entire ecosystems, then at least give people movies on SSD or USB drives that can interface seamlessly with most TVs. Many modern TV's have built-in decoders, whereas optical readers (DVD players and Blu-Ray players) continue to support the nonsense of "region codes," and other such proprietary flotsam.
_____
-=: Kaelon :=-

---
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Re: "Highly profitable" Bay Street Video store n Toronto thrives
By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Sat Jul 16 2022 04:09 pm

> I've ripped some of my movies - Not all, but some, and put them on my Plex
> media server. Eventually, I think it would probably be good to just rip
> them all and buy a USB hard drive to back them up onto.

We're the same person. ;) And I, too, assumed that flash-disks or USB drives would have gone mainstream and replaced optical drives, but the entertainment industry is obsessed with digital rights management and getting all of the TV manufacturers to align on the same proprietary format would be madness. So, today, pretty much every TV can decode every format via USB inserted media, but if a publisher or distributor wants DMR, they're fresh out of luck.

Considering optical media starts to decay in around 20 years, this is no longer a theoretical. Any DVD or Blu-Ray purchased at the start of the millenium is nearing its end-of-life. Best to rip it soon before quality begins to decline.
_____
-=: Kaelon :=-

---
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Re: "Highly profitable" Bay S
By: Kaelon to Nightfox on Sat Jul 16 2022 09:21 am

> Re: "Highly profitable" Bay Street Video store n Toronto thrives
> By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Tue Jul 12 2022 09:09 am
>
> > I'm not sure I'd call optical formats unnecessary.. You can't always rel
> > on your internet always working 100%, and same for a streaming service.
> > Streaming services randomly pull content from their services too, so you
> > can't even rely on something always being available to watch there. Thos
> > are a few of the reasons I still like to buy movies on physical formats.
>
> I don't disagree. But do we need to preserve optical formats with their lim
> s so that I don't have to insert discs anymore, and I just stream it on my o
> _____
> -=: Kaelon :=-
>

Digital backups need to be maintained / replaced and hardware requires
upgrades as capacities increase and older firmware no longer
supports newer drive media and speeds. If kept stored properly, the optical
media (factory manufactured) should stay intact. No need to change codecs or
storage formats as time goes by.

At one site I worked at, a sales guy pulled out some old CD's he burned in
the early 2000's and wanted files moved over to the network. the laptops we
issue no longer had CD or DVD drives. Anyways, the files he wanted were
scanned in a proprietary format the scanner software he used in the late
1990's. We got lucky and found in our software repository a program that
would read the format, but it had to be run on a virtual machine. By the
time we recovered the document andpreserved it to a pdf file, he could've
original documents pulled from the long term storage site.

---
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Re: "Highly profitable" Bay S
By: Dumas Walker to ANDEDDU on Sat Jul 16 2022 09:37 am

> > I like to rotate between streaming services. I'll sign up with one for 2-3
> > months, watch a lot of the box sets and movies I want to see then move ont
> > next one for 2-3 months. I have had 2/3 services being paid for concurrent
> > but it's a waste of money as I don't watch as much TV as most of the
> > population.
>
> A work friend of mine was trying to talk me into doing something like that.
> He apparently signs up for Hulu whenever they have a free first month
> deal, watches all of the new episodes of the show he wants to see
> ("Letterkenny"), and then ditches it before he gets charged.
>
> As I don't usually enjoy binge watching, I would figure I would try that
> and not get through half of the new season of whatever (like "The Expanse"!)
> before I started getting charged.
>
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?
>
If someone is daming the system, their telemetry will find the pattern if
they're losing enough money

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: "Highly profitable" Bay S
By: Arelor to Andeddu on Sat Jul 16 2022 12:18 pm

> Re: "Highly profitable" Bay S
> By: Andeddu to Moondog on Fri Jul 15 2022 02:58 pm
>
> > Re: "Highly profitable" Bay S
> > By: Moondog to MRO on Fri Jul 15 2022 02:25 am
> >
> > > Some films or shows I like to collect because they are not available o
> > > or demand you to pay for each episode. I don't like the idea of "buyi
> > > virtual copy, then have the service go out of business or pull that ti
> > > from it's library.
> > >
> > > On VHS I have the original Star Wars trilogy from before Lucas
> > > digitally "enhanced" the series, and did stupid things like making Gre
> > > shoot first.
> >
> > I had hundreds of VHS tapes but they all went into the trash because ther
> > no way to really use them now that video recorders are completely archaic
> > rare to see. I cannot remember how long it has been since I saw an old VH
> > recorder. The one my parents had was put into storage but eventually disp
> > of because we had amassed a huge DVD collection. I now see that DVDs are
> > the same way as VHS tapes. I have limited room so I am unable to have too
> > vintage devices around. It's a shame because I would love to preserve som
> > old tech.
> >
> > ---
> > ■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW
>
> I saw the writing on the wall with VCRs and converted most of my VHS to digi
> formats using an old VCR and avideo capture module. Most of the movies that
> actually worth it I got in DVD format too, since VHS was not that great.
>
>
> --
> gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
>
I mentioned this in anaother thread, but I imagine format conversion will be
a never ending hassle as digital media formats change over time.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: "Highly profitable" Bay S
By: Moondog to Kaelon on Sat Jul 16 2022 04:51 pm

> At one site I worked at, a sales guy pulled out some old CD's he burned in
> the early 2000's and wanted files moved over to the network. the laptops we
> issue no longer had CD or DVD drives. Anyways, the files he wanted were
> scanned in a proprietary format the scanner software he used in the late
> 1990's. We got lucky and found in our software repository a program that
> would read the format, but it had to be run on a virtual machine. By the
> time we recovered the document andpreserved it to a pdf file, he could've
> original documents pulled from the long term storage site.

I guess the phrase you used earlier - "if kept properly" - rings true here. Everything from file format to readable / extractable software looms large in this digital world. (Similar note, so many fellow historians tell me what a nightmare we are in terms of primary source documents. Better to print everything out, they say, than to bank on any of these digital formats making it to the next generational archiving.)
_____
-=: Kaelon :=-

---
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Re: "Highly profitable" Bay S
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Sat Jul 16 2022 05:19 pm

> Re: "Highly profitable" Bay Street Video store n Toronto thrives
> By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Sat Jul 16 2022 04:09 pm
>
> > I agree. And after a while, when optical disc formats started to decline
> > wondered if they'd start selling movies on USB flash drives instead. But
> > course, that hasn't happened.. They still want to be able to control how
> > watch the content and try to prevent people from making copies of it.
>
> When I was working at Broadcom, one of our device functions was a memory car
> ranspired, but there were companies definitely planning to do so.
> https://www.michaelsinsight.com/2009/11/blockbuster-looks-to-distribute-movi
>
> In any case, I think they could've distributed DRM-movies on USB flash drive
> --
> digital man (rob)
>
> Sling Blade quote #7:
> Karl: I don't reckon the Good Lord would send anybody like you to Hades.
> Norco, CA WX: 90.5°F, 34.0% humidity, 11 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hr
>
SD cards and USB sticks tend to break easily. One lady I worked with would
destroy usb sticks on a regular basis. She'd find a way to bust them off at
the connector. I couldn't imagine what she could do with an SD card. I'm sur
e she would snap the micro SD's in half.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: "Highly profitable" Bay Street Video store n Toronto thrives
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Sat Jul 16 2022 05:19 pm

DM> When I was working at Broadcom, one of our device functions was a memory
DM> card (e.g. SD Card) reader/writer, and the word from the marketing dept.
DM> was that Hollywood was going to start distributing or renting movies on SD
DM> Cards.

man, if only AOL started sending their clients out on SD cards -- I'd be set! I could finally make that 12-disk RAID 10 cluster I always wanted...

---
■ Synchronet ■ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

Hello Arelor!

** On Saturday 16.07.22 - 12:21, Arelor wrote to Moondog:

A> Moviemakers know they make much more money from the first
A> days after a theatrical release than they do from long term
A> royalties and DVD sales.

Can that really be true? I would think that the physical/
streaming branch of a release would bring in a more guaranteed
inflow of cash. Some actors have opted to lower salaries in
their films for life-time royalties and are richer for that.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

> I don't disagree. But do we need to preserve optical formats with their limit
> storage capacity? Why not just all invest in cheap storage and set up NAS de
> ces. QNAP has some great models, and that's what I've done - ripping all of m
> personal movies so that I don't have to insert discs anymore, and I just strea
> it on my own home network. No Internet needed. ;)

That is what I do. Having the physical disk is not as important. My only
thing about obtaining the disk vs. watching on streaming is that I can
control when a show/movie "leaves my service." :) Also, buying the disk
is cheaper than paying for the streaming service (at least it has been so
far -- but I bet that is not true for Disney content!).

Now, two of the last three things I bought on disk turned out to be disks
that cannot be copied... so I have to have the physical disk. <shrugs>

* SLMR 2.1a * "Mmmmmmmm.....pie pants."

---
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Hello Dumas Walker!

** On Sunday 17.07.22 - 08:24, Dumas Walker wrote to KAELON:

DW> Now, two of the last three things I bought on disk turned
DW> out to be disks that cannot be copied... so I have to have
DW> the physical disk. <shrugs>

I've had great success with Audials. It will even "capture" a
video stream that you've "rented" so that you can play it on
your schedule or burn it.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
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