nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
> modern routers do that automatically, no tools required, particularly
> mesh, which are designed specifically for that scenario.

Tell us nospam, how do you know where best to position your router?

> there is *no* need to do that manually, nor will the average person
> even know what to do.

How again does the router know the best position to be in your house?

On 8/27/2021 4:07 PM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
>> modern routers do that automatically, no tools required, particularly
>> mesh, which are designed specifically for that scenario.
>
> Tell us nospam, how do you know where best to position your router?
>
>> there is *no* need to do that manually, nor will the average person
>> even know what to do.
>
> How again does the router know the best position to be in your house?

You also use those apps to determine if you need to put in a second
router. I have a Wi-FI router in an upstairs closet with my cable modem,
but the signal was not strong enough downstairs. I ended up running some
CAT 6 cable through the upstairs attic then through the downstairs attic
to second Wi-Fi router that serves downstairs. Of course I'm in Silicon
Valley where most of my neighbors are engineers and know how to do all
this themselves.

In article <sgdjnl$ejl$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> You also use those apps to determine if you need to put in a second
> router.

nope. to determine that, one only needs to notice that there's a weak
signal at one end of the house. no app required.

should that happen, simply get a second router and configure both so
that devices can roam between them (very easy, again, no app needed).

better yet, use a mesh unit which will do everything *for* you, some of
which can dynamically adjust the signal based on current demands, such
as if everyone is in one room at the same time and the other end of the
house is empty.

> Of course I'm in Silicon
> Valley where most of my neighbors are engineers and know how to do all
> this themselves.

maybe you can ask one of them to help you, given that you have
absolutely no idea what you're doing.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> asked
>>> there is *no* need to do that manually, nor will the average person
>>> even know what to do.
>>
>> How again does the router know the best position to be in your house?
>
> You also use those apps to determine if you need to put in a second
> router. I have a Wi-FI router in an upstairs closet with my cable modem,
> but the signal was not strong enough downstairs. I ended up running some
> CAT 6 cable through the upstairs attic then through the downstairs attic
> to second Wi-Fi router that serves downstairs. Of course I'm in Silicon
> Valley where most of my neighbors are engineers and know how to do all
> this themselves.

Of course the graphical wifi debugging apps are useful, as are all the
utilities that Android has which iOS lacks because it's a toy OS after all.

They wouldn't exist on _all_ other platforms if they weren't useful to many!
What's interesting is that _only_ iOS lacks these graphical debugging utils.

*It's yet more evidence that to own an iPhone is to own a crippled phone.*

On 8/28/2021 8:50 AM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:

<snip>

> They wouldn't exist on _all_ other platforms if they weren't useful to many!
> What's interesting is that _only_ iOS lacks these graphical debugging utils.

Yeah, our favorite trolls can insist that such apps are not needed, but
the reality is that they are available on Android, Linux, MacOS, and
Windows, so clearly people are using them. But I guess that no Android,
Linux, MacOS, or Windows users fall into the "ordinary user" category, LOL.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
>> You also use those apps to determine if you need to put in a second
>> router.
>
> nope. to determine that, one only needs to notice that there's a weak
> signal at one end of the house. no app required.

Why are you so desperate to defend what is obvious to all but you cultists?

> should that happen, simply get a second router and configure both so
> that devices can roam between them (very easy, again, no app needed).

Everything you say in your desperation to defend Apple at all costs just
sounds silly when you realize you'll say ANYTHING to defend Apple's flaws.

> better yet, use a mesh unit which will do everything *for* you, some of
> which can dynamically adjust the signal based on current demands, such
> as if everyone is in one room at the same time and the other end of the
> house is empty.

You are literally suggesting buying MORE DEVICES because your beloved iPhone
can't do even the simplest of the most basic of wifi debugging tasks.

This is the Apple way.
1. Apple ships a device that is crippled.
2. So that the customer has to buy back what Apple didn't supply.
3. Meanwhile, _every_ operating system except iOS has this capability.

>> Of course I'm in Silicon
>> Valley where most of my neighbors are engineers and know how to do all
>> this themselves.
>
> maybe you can ask one of them to help you, given that you have
> absolutely no idea what you're doing.

As you get increasingly desperate to defend the crippled iOS operating
system, you resort to more and more childish responses, given you've run out
of your typical ploys long ago.

We see nospam following the predictable path in increasing desperation...
1. First claim that you told the user how to do it (and yet that's a lie).
2. When that fails, claim the imaginary functionality exists on the Apple
App Store.
3. When that fails, say everyone else made Apple remove the functionality.
4. When that fails, say it's not Apple's fault - it's the developers' fault.
5. When that fails, say you should write all the app functionality yourself.
6. When that fails, accuse everyone telling the truth of being stupid.
7. What's coming up are the classic "ftfy" & ad hominem rants from nospam.

All this because nospam _hates_ *to own an iPhone is to own a crippled OS*.

On 8/28/2021 8:58 AM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:

<snip>

> You are literally suggesting buying MORE DEVICES because your beloved iPhone
> can't do even the simplest of the most basic of wifi debugging tasks.

nospam is wrong of course™.

Well of course you could take the approach of wildly adding more and
more wireless routers, without knowing where the dead spots actually are
or where there is interference from nearby wireless routers, but that
would be an exceedingly stupid thing to do, so it's not surprising that
nospam would think that this is a good idea.

It's like a car mechanic who wildly replaces components because they
lack the skill or equipment to properly diagnose a problem, i.e. "let's
try replacing your $1500 computer, that might fix the problem, oh, that
didn't work, maybe it's the $2000 catalytic converter, oh that didn't
work, maybe it's this wire that fell off the oxygen sensor, I'll just
push it back on, all fixed, you owe me $3500 for parts and $2000 for labor."

In article <sgdmde$132$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> the reality is that they are available on Android, Linux, MacOS, and
> Windows, so clearly people are using them.

availability does not mean they're actually used by very many people.

the reality is that most people do not have any issues with using only
one router unless they have an unusually large home, in which case they
get a second router and link the two (very easy) or a mesh unit that
does everything automatically (even easier).

no need for any apps or troubleshooting.

not only that, but the routers can automatically adjust based on
current conditions, whereas a human would constantly need to be
monitoring it, something they're not going to do.

In article <sgdo5k$dh2$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Well of course you could take the approach of wildly adding more and
> more wireless routers, without knowing where the dead spots actually are
> or where there is interference from nearby wireless routers, but that
> would be an exceedingly stupid thing to do, so it's not surprising that
> nospam would think that this is a good idea.

i never suggested 'wildly adding more and more routers without knowing
where the dead spots actually are'.

stop lying and trolling.

what i said was if there's a dead spot, simply add a router for
additional coverage and link the two. done.

a mesh unit is an even better choice but not required.

you have no clue what you're talking about and you're not fooling
anyone.

>
> It's like a car mechanic who wildly replaces components because they
> lack the skill or equipment to properly diagnose a problem, i.e. "let's
> try replacing your $1500 computer, that might fix the problem, oh, that
> didn't work, maybe it's the $2000 catalytic converter, oh that didn't
> work, maybe it's this wire that fell off the oxygen sensor, I'll just
> push it back on, all fixed, you owe me $3500 for parts and $2000 for labor."

nope.

if you want to use a ridiculous car analogy, what you're suggesting is
someone downloading a bunch of apps to try to diagnose the car despite
not knowing what they're doing, versus taking it to a mechanic and have
it properly fixed.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> asked
> Yeah, our favorite trolls can insist that such apps are not needed, but
> the reality is that they are available on Android, Linux, MacOS, and
> Windows, so clearly people are using them. But I guess that no Android,
> Linux, MacOS, or Windows users fall into the "ordinary user" category, LOL.

What's unknown is _why Apple would remove the apps from the App Store_
when Apple allows the very same graphical wi-fi debugging apps for macOS.

It's only iOS that doesn't have utilities every other operating system has.

What iOS has though are games. Games. Games games games.
It's one more indicator that iOS is only a toy operating system for kids.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
> if you want to use a ridiculous car analogy, what you're suggesting is
> someone downloading a bunch of apps to try to diagnose the car despite
> not knowing what they're doing, versus taking it to a mechanic and have
> it properly fixed.

Keeping with the car analogy, it's like OBD testers exist on all platforms
except on the iOS platform because Apple, for some reason, would hate OBDII.

Many useful utilities are on all platforms _except_ the iOS platform.
Graphical cellular signal debuggers are yet another example not on iOS.

*The toy iOS isn't actually useful for _anything_ other than playing games.*

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
> availability does not mean they're actually used by very many people.

In your desperation to make excuses for why iOS is crippled you make an
argument that goes against all your other arguments as to why you love iOS.

> the reality is that most people do not have any issues with using only
> one router unless they have an unusually large home, in which case they
> get a second router and link the two (very easy) or a mesh unit that
> does everything automatically (even easier).'

The reality is you'll stop at nothing to defend a crippled iOS to the death.

> no need for any apps or troubleshooting.

Of course you'd say that... because you know the iPhone has a crippled OS.

> not only that, but the routers can automatically adjust based on
> current conditions, whereas a human would constantly need to be
> monitoring it, something they're not going to do.

How is that router going to know the optimal place for it to be located?

In article <sgdrri$19ac$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Robin Goodfellow
<Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> wrote:

> Keeping with the car analogy, it's like OBD testers exist on all platforms
> except on the iOS platform because Apple, for some reason, would hate OBDII.

false.

there are *numerous* obd adapters and obd apps on ios.

i have been using the adapters and apps for more than a decade and have
tried or own just about all of them.

they work exceptionally well, even in the background without needing to
launch an app each time, something not possible on android.

i've also written an ios app that used an obd adapter and am *very*
familiar with how it all works.

you are as usual, full of shit.

In article <sgds10$1c02$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Robin Goodfellow
<Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> wrote:

>
> How is that router going to know the optimal place for it to be located?

it tells you.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
>> How is that router going to know the optimal place for it to be located?
>
> it tells you.

You have no shame.

You're no different than what Apple does by Apple's incessant public lies.
(Apple was fined and Apple paid over a billion dollars for lies last year)

You'll make up anything to defend the crippled lack of functionality of iOS.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
>> Keeping with the car analogy, it's like OBD testers exist on all platforms
>> except on the iOS platform because Apple, for some reason, would hate OBDII.
>
> false.
>
> there are *numerous* obd adapters and obd apps on ios.

You have no shame.

Just like Apple's very public incessant lies (for which Apple paid out over
a billion dollars last year alone), you'll distort everything sans shame.

What neither you nor Apple can change, even with both your incessant lies
(neither you nor Apple has any shame when it comes to brazen public lies),
is the fact that the graphical wifi debuggers exist on all consumer
operating systems _except_ on iOS.

*To own an iPhone is to own a crippled operating system akin to ChromeOS.*

On 8/28/2021 10:30 AM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
>> if you want to use a ridiculous car analogy, what you're suggesting is
>> someone downloading a bunch of apps to try to diagnose the car despite
>> not knowing what they're doing, versus taking it to a mechanic and have
>> it properly fixed.
>
> Keeping with the car analogy, it's like OBD testers exist on all platforms
> except on the iOS platform because Apple, for some reason, would hate OBDII.

OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
support.

You can buy a Wi-Fi OBD-II dongle, or a BLE OBD-II dongle, that will
connect to an iPhone or iPad, but they are an order of magnitude more
expensive.

Of course, just like a Wi-Fi analyzer, I would expect to see a
rationalization like: "ordinary users don't need to read OBD-II codes."

On 8/28/2021 10:33 AM, Robin Goodfellow wrote:
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> asked
>> availability does not mean they're actually used by very many people.
>
> In your desperation to make excuses for why iOS is crippled you make an
> argument that goes against all your other arguments as to why you love iOS.

nospam is wrong of course™.

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.farproc.wifi.analyzer>

Wi-Fi analyzer has over 10 million installs. It may be an app thouse
users only open once or twice, but when they need it, it's very useful.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> asked
> OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
> Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
> support.

To own an iPhone is to own a crippled operating system (crippled by Apple).

"Generic ELM327 adapters will not work with OBD Fusion.
*This has to do with _iOS limitations_ than with the scanner itself*."
https://scanneranswers.com/choosing-the-best-obd2-iphone-app-bluetooth/

Unfortunately there is no way to use Wi-Fi adapter on iOS while the app is
in background. *This is an _Apple iOS restriction_* and there's no way to
overcome it."
https://www.carscanner.info/choosing-obdii-adapter/
> You can buy a Wi-Fi OBD-II dongle, or a BLE OBD-II dongle, that will
> connect to an iPhone or iPad, but they are an order of magnitude more
> expensive.

Under $25: Adapters in this price range are usually Android/PC or
Android-only options. *Compatibility with iOS is uncommon* in this bracket.
https://www.thedrive.com/reviews/37959/obd2-bluetooth-adapter

> Of course, just like a Wi-Fi analyzer, I would expect to see a
> rationalization like: "ordinary users don't need to read OBD-II codes."

Why would anyone need OBDII when all they do is play games on their iPhone?

In article <sge2ke$mob$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
> Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
> support.

wrong.

obd dongles have supported bluetooth le for nearly a decade.

there are also obd dongles that connect directly to the phone via the
dock connector or lightning.

> You can buy a Wi-Fi OBD-II dongle, or a BLE OBD-II dongle, that will
> connect to an iPhone or iPad, but they are an order of magnitude more
> expensive.

wrong.

they're all about the same price.

> Of course, just like a Wi-Fi analyzer, I would expect to see a
> rationalization like: "ordinary users don't need to read OBD-II codes."

it's not a rationalization. they don't.

most people when seeing a check engine light will take their car to the
mechanic and have it properly fixed.

even if someone wants to read the code, there's usually nothing they
can do unless the problem is minor, which it usually isn't when the cel
comes on.

On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 12:26:03 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
>Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
>support.

Worse. Most of the OBD-II wireless dongles use cloned (counterfeit)
ELM327 chips, which may or may not support various features. There
are apps that will test for which features are available. For
example:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vialsoft.elm327_test_obd_identifier>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.applagapp.elm327identifier>
I've ordered OBD-II readers on eBay that were advertised to be 2.3
compatible, that turned out to be an older version.

The original ELM327:
<https://www.elmelectronics.com/ic/elm327/>
Various protocols and chips:
<https://www.elmelectronics.com/products/ics/obd/>

>Of course, just like a Wi-Fi analyzer, I would expect to see a
>rationalization like: "ordinary users don't need to read OBD-II codes."

Yep. Ordinary users just love having Apple make their decisions for
them.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 19:37:29 +0000, Robin Goodfellow
<Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> wrote:

>Why would anyone need OBDII when all they do is play games on their iPhone?

Because Apple doesn't yet sell an Apple self driving car:
<https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/apple-car/>
When the car is eventually released, I suspect that mere mortal
drivers will not be allowed to use the ODBII port without an Apple Car
Care contract. Or, it might be reserved for use only by Authorized
Service Centers. Ever get the feeling you are allowed to have less
and less control over your devices?

You don't need to know. We know better. We are in control. You are
about to enter another dimension, a dimension not only of games and
five year product lives, but of mindless behavior and sky high prices.
A journey into the wondrous land of Apple. Next stop, the iPhone
Zone.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 2021-08-29 01:02:55 +0000, Jeff Liebermann said:

> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 19:37:29 +0000, Robin Goodfellow
> <Ancient-of-Days@Heaven.Net> wrote:
>
>> Why would anyone need OBDII when all they do is play games on their iPhone?
>
> Because Apple doesn't yet sell an Apple self driving car:
> <https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/apple-car/>
> When the car is eventually released, I suspect that mere mortal
> drivers will not be allowed to use the ODBII port without an Apple Car
> Care contract. Or, it might be reserved for use only by Authorized
> Service Centers. Ever get the feeling you are allowed to have less
> and less control over your devices?
>
> You don't need to know. We know better. We are in control. You are
> about to enter another dimension, a dimension not only of games and
> five year product lives, but of mindless behavior and sky high prices.
> A journey into the wondrous land of Apple. Next stop, the iPhone
> Zone.

And yet another cross-posting brainless anti-Apple moron troll meets
the killfile.

On 8/28/2021 5:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Aug 2021 12:26:03 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> OBD-II is interesting because the low-cost OBD-II dongles are
>> Bluetooth-only and use the SPP (Serial Port Profile) which iOS does not
>> support.
>
> Worse. Most of the OBD-II wireless dongles use cloned (counterfeit)
> ELM327 chips, which may or may not support various features. There
> are apps that will test for which features are available. For
> example:
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vialsoft.elm327_test_obd_identifier>
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.applagapp.elm327identifier>
> I've ordered OBD-II readers on eBay that were advertised to be 2.3
> compatible, that turned out to be an older version.

I had some cheap ones that had difficulty connecting sometimes, but then
they worked okay after that. The one I use now, the "Carista" was $30
but always connects properly. I use it with Torque Pro, but Carista has
their own app that has manufacturer specific codes for some brands. It's
not a free app, it has a monthly fee, but you can just sign up whenever
you need the manufacturer specific codes support.

In article <sgevif$7ad$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> > I've ordered OBD-II readers on eBay that were advertised to be 2.3
> > compatible, that turned out to be an older version.
>
> I had some cheap ones that had difficulty connecting sometimes, but then
> they worked okay after that. The one I use now, the "Carista" was $30

$30??? and you're complaining about the high price of obd adapters??

obd dongles that work perfectly fine with iphones cost quite a bit less
than that, they work with many obd apps app and in some cases, an app
isn't even needed because of what ios can do.