On 2021-09-13 11:36 a.m., philo wrote:
> On 9/13/2021 10:23 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>> On 2021-09-13 12:42 a.m., philo wrote:
>>> Put it this way.
>>> Somewhere around 1964 . I stopped reading sci-fi when Asimov
>>> mentioned a desktop computer.  He had gone way too far!
>>
>> If he had mentioned that those desktop computers would mostly be used
>> to consume porn from the moment they got connected to the Internet,
>> your mind would likely literally explode.
>>
> I was thinking huge, vacuum tube computers. Though I certainly knew
> about transistors, I could not imagine IC's and CPU chips.

I think it was a given that these things would eventually make their way
into the home. The biggest question was as to whether there would be a
need to have such a thing with us in our residences.

--
@RabidHussar

On 9/13/2021 10:41 AM, Tim Slattery wrote:
> philo@news.novabbs.com (philo) wrote:
>
>> Put it this way.
>> Somewhere around 1964 . I stopped reading sci-fi when Asimov mentioned a desktop computer. He had gone way too far!
>
>
> On the other side, I remember reading a Robert Heinlein book set in
> the future where people carried around slide rules for quick
> calculations. Apparently he never even thought about handheld
> calculators. Then again, in the late 50's and early 60's who did?
>

I recall seeing some Flash Gordon movie where on the rocket ship , the
intercom was a dial phone or something similar.

On 9/13/2021 10:44 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-13 11:36 a.m., philo wrote:
>> On 9/13/2021 10:23 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-13 12:42 a.m., philo wrote:
>>>> Put it this way.
>>>> Somewhere around 1964 . I stopped reading sci-fi when Asimov
>>>> mentioned a desktop computer.  He had gone way too far!
>>>
>>> If he had mentioned that those desktop computers would mostly be used
>>> to consume porn from the moment they got connected to the Internet,
>>> your mind would likely literally explode.
>>>
>> I was thinking huge, vacuum tube computers. Though I certainly knew
>> about transistors, I could not imagine IC's and CPU chips.
>
> I think it was a given that these things would eventually make their way
> into the home. The biggest question was as to whether there would be a
> need to have such a thing with us in our residences.
>

Perhaps the biggest achievement in our quest to land on the moon was
miniaturization. Until then , the size of a computer was not all that
important

On 2021-09-13 12:20 p.m., philo wrote:
> On 9/13/2021 10:41 AM, Tim Slattery wrote:
>> philo@news.novabbs.com (philo) wrote:
>>
>>> Put it this way.
>>> Somewhere around 1964 . I stopped reading sci-fi when Asimov
>>> mentioned a desktop computer.  He had gone way too far!
>>
>>
>> On the other side, I remember reading a Robert Heinlein book set in
>> the future where people carried around slide rules for quick
>> calculations. Apparently he never even thought about handheld
>> calculators. Then again, in the late 50's and early 60's who did?
>>
>
>
> I recall seeing some Flash Gordon movie where on the rocket ship , the
> intercom was a dial phone or something similar.

I recall BBSing in the 1990s and having to put ATDP to connect rather
than ATDT because my parents were too cheap to spend the extra $2 for
tone dial rather than pulse.

--
@RabidHussar

On 2021-09-13 12:22 p.m., philo wrote:
> On 9/13/2021 10:44 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>> On 2021-09-13 11:36 a.m., philo wrote:
>>> On 9/13/2021 10:23 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>>> On 2021-09-13 12:42 a.m., philo wrote:
>>>>> Put it this way.
>>>>> Somewhere around 1964 . I stopped reading sci-fi when Asimov
>>>>> mentioned a desktop computer.  He had gone way too far!
>>>>
>>>> If he had mentioned that those desktop computers would mostly be
>>>> used to consume porn from the moment they got connected to the
>>>> Internet, your mind would likely literally explode.
>>>>
>>> I was thinking huge, vacuum tube computers. Though I certainly knew
>>> about transistors, I could not imagine IC's and CPU chips.
>>
>> I think it was a given that these things would eventually make their
>> way into the home. The biggest question was as to whether there would
>> be a need to have such a thing with us in our residences.
>>
>
>
>
> Perhaps the biggest achievement in our quest to land on the moon was
> miniaturization. Until then , the size of a computer was not all that
> important

I find it striking that anyone managed to get to the moon during a time
when the radiation in space between Earth and the moon would have killed
normal human beings in minutes and with computers no more powerful than
a Commodore 64. It's amazing what Americans can accomplish when they put
their minds to it and definitely don't ask Hollywood for help.

--
@RabidHussar

On 9/13/2021 10:22 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On 9/13/2021 8:00 AM, philo wrote:
>> On 9/13/2021 9:39 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On 9/12/2021 5:15 PM, philo wrote:
>>>> On 9/12/2021 6:10 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>> On 9/12/2021 3:17 PM, philo wrote:
>>>>>> I have an old machine in my workshop that as an experiment, loaded
>>>>>> 32bit
>>>>>> Win10 on, then enabled the 16 bit subsystem for playing old games.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been running Windows since Windows 2.0. I never saw Windows 1.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>

<snipped for brevity>
>>> My first PC was in 1987, an IBM XT clone with an 8088 CPU, 64KB of
>>> RAM and a 20MB HD. It ran MSDOS 3.0. I've run every Microsoft
>>> operating system since then, with the exception of the NT ones.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> You probably don't remember me, but
>>>> you always gave me good help back then on Usenet.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the kind words. I remember your name,  but names from
>>> those days blur into those from these days, so I'm not sure whether I
>>> remember you from those days.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> It was a long time ago and there were tons of people on Usenet.
>>
>> I worked as a service engineer in the industrial battery field but since
>> about 2000 had my own home business building and repairing computers.
>> I also did 15 years of volunteer work for some NPO's and was a Microsoft
>> Authorized Refurbisher.
>>
>>
>> Between everyone having smartphones (to me, it's akin to watch repair)
>> and people shut in due to COVID...only now am I getting back into
>> computer repair...and in the 18 months I've been away, I've had to catch
>> up a lot.  I am now a huge fan of SSD's and DDR4
>
>
> My new computer has a 2TB NVMe. It's great--much faster than SSDs.
>

My wife's machine has NVMe. She has more of a need for it that I
do...she does a lot of editing in Photoshop.

I can get by without it on my own machine, or else I just use hers.

>> I'm also evaluating Win 11 on the Insiders program.
>> Works great but I prefer the Win10 File Explorer.
>
>
> I'll wait until Windows 11's release on October 5. I don't care about
> its File Explorer, since I never use it. I greatly prefer Directory
> Opus; it cost me a few dollars, but I think it was worth it.
>

If Directory Opus works with Win11, I would gladly pay for it.

I will keep that in mind. I plan to stay with Win10 for a few years yet.
>
>
>> A few months ago, I needed to build a new computer for my wife and after
>> I totaled up the parts, found it was cheaper and easier to just get one
>> off the shelf.
>
>
> Yes, it can be. The main disadvantage of buying off the shelf is that
> you don't get to select each component. I could perhaps have gotten the
> same configuration for a little less money, but I wouldn't have been
> able to get the quality components I chose (with help from Paul and Rene
> here).
>

I purchased the one I did simply for the mobo.
When the day come that I do move to Win11, I will probably buy all new.

> My wife uses an inexpensive Dell. It's fine for her, since she uses it
> for little more than e-mail, an occasional web search, and a solitaire
> card game or two. If I upgraded her to a machine like mine, she'd never
> know the difference.
>
>
>> Then for myself, I was going to spoil my record of 100% building my own
>> machines, but I found a great deal on eBay with no OS that I could not
>> pass up.
>
>
> As I said earlier in another thread, I built a couple of machines
> myself, some two decades or so ago, but I was amazed at how different
> and difficult it was these days. Adding to that that I'm two decades
> older and apparently have grown some extra thumbs, I'm very glad I
> didn't try to do it myself.
>
>
>
>> It arrived damaged due to poor packaging and I got a partial
>> refund...but really, I was happy because I had to re-case the machine...
>> so I can still say I 100% build my own.
>>
>> It kind of looks like a HS science project...but heck, it works great.
>>
>
>

On 9/13/2021 11:28 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-13 12:20 p.m., philo wrote:
>> On 9/13/2021 10:41 AM, Tim Slattery wrote:
>>> philo@news.novabbs.com (philo) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Put it this way.
>>>> Somewhere around 1964 . I stopped reading sci-fi when Asimov
>>>> mentioned a desktop computer.  He had gone way too far!
>>>
>>>
>>> On the other side, I remember reading a Robert Heinlein book set in
>>> the future where people carried around slide rules for quick
>>> calculations. Apparently he never even thought about handheld
>>> calculators. Then again, in the late 50's and early 60's who did?
>>>
>>
>>
>> I recall seeing some Flash Gordon movie where on the rocket ship , the
>> intercom was a dial phone or something similar.
>
> I recall BBSing in the 1990s and having to put ATDP to connect rather
> than ATDT because my parents were too cheap to spend the extra $2 for
> tone dial rather than pulse.
>

My parents had a dial phone and I recall buying a push button phone from
some surplus store and hooking it up. It made the tone but did not do
anything as tone dialing had not been enabled yet.

On 9/13/2021 11:29 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-13 12:22 p.m., philo wrote:
>> On 9/13/2021 10:44 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-13 11:36 a.m., philo wrote:
>>>> On 9/13/2021 10:23 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-09-13 12:42 a.m., philo wrote:
>>>>>> Put it this way.
>>>>>> Somewhere around 1964 . I stopped reading sci-fi when Asimov
>>>>>> mentioned a desktop computer.  He had gone way too far!
>>>>>
>>>>> If he had mentioned that those desktop computers would mostly be
>>>>> used to consume porn from the moment they got connected to the
>>>>> Internet, your mind would likely literally explode.
>>>>>
>>>> I was thinking huge, vacuum tube computers. Though I certainly knew
>>>> about transistors, I could not imagine IC's and CPU chips.
>>>
>>> I think it was a given that these things would eventually make their
>>> way into the home. The biggest question was as to whether there would
>>> be a need to have such a thing with us in our residences.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Perhaps the biggest achievement in our quest to land on the moon was
>> miniaturization. Until then , the size of a computer was not all that
>> important
>
> I find it striking that anyone managed to get to the moon during a time
> when the radiation in space between Earth and the moon would have killed
> normal human beings in minutes and with computers no more powerful than
> a Commodore 64. It's amazing what Americans can accomplish when they put
> their minds to it and definitely don't ask Hollywood for help.
>

When I first got my job, when the engineer who trained me use to talk
about his former job, I thought for sure he was BSing. He said he was on
the design team for the Apollo Mission guidance system.

Finally I asked him: If you are that capable, why the heck are you
working here?

He said: Ever try to get a job when thousands of you laid off co-workers
are now looking?

On 2021-09-13 12:38 p.m., philo wrote:
> On 9/13/2021 11:28 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>> On 2021-09-13 12:20 p.m., philo wrote:
>>> On 9/13/2021 10:41 AM, Tim Slattery wrote:
>>>> philo@news.novabbs.com (philo) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Put it this way.
>>>>> Somewhere around 1964 . I stopped reading sci-fi when Asimov
>>>>> mentioned a desktop computer.  He had gone way too far!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On the other side, I remember reading a Robert Heinlein book set in
>>>> the future where people carried around slide rules for quick
>>>> calculations. Apparently he never even thought about handheld
>>>> calculators. Then again, in the late 50's and early 60's who did?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I recall seeing some Flash Gordon movie where on the rocket ship ,
>>> the intercom was a dial phone or something similar.
>>
>> I recall BBSing in the 1990s and having to put ATDP to connect rather
>> than ATDT because my parents were too cheap to spend the extra $2 for
>> tone dial rather than pulse.
>>
>
>
> My parents had a dial phone and I recall buying a push button phone from
> some surplus store and hooking it up. It made the tone but did not do
> anything as tone dialing had not been enabled yet.

Actually, your phone should have worked. Usually, if it didn't, it's
because the user didn't flip the switch from tone to pulse on the unit
itself. If it didn't have such an option, it was definitely an exception
to the rules at the time.

--
@RabidHussar

On 2021-09-13 12:41 p.m., philo wrote:
> On 9/13/2021 11:29 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>> On 2021-09-13 12:22 p.m., philo wrote:
>>> On 9/13/2021 10:44 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>>> On 2021-09-13 11:36 a.m., philo wrote:
>>>>> On 9/13/2021 10:23 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-09-13 12:42 a.m., philo wrote:
>>>>>>> Put it this way.
>>>>>>> Somewhere around 1964 . I stopped reading sci-fi when Asimov
>>>>>>> mentioned a desktop computer.  He had gone way too far!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If he had mentioned that those desktop computers would mostly be
>>>>>> used to consume porn from the moment they got connected to the
>>>>>> Internet, your mind would likely literally explode.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I was thinking huge, vacuum tube computers. Though I certainly knew
>>>>> about transistors, I could not imagine IC's and CPU chips.
>>>>
>>>> I think it was a given that these things would eventually make their
>>>> way into the home. The biggest question was as to whether there
>>>> would be a need to have such a thing with us in our residences.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps the biggest achievement in our quest to land on the moon was
>>> miniaturization. Until then , the size of a computer was not all that
>>> important
>>
>> I find it striking that anyone managed to get to the moon during a
>> time when the radiation in space between Earth and the moon would have
>> killed normal human beings in minutes and with computers no more
>> powerful than a Commodore 64. It's amazing what Americans can
>> accomplish when they put their minds to it and definitely don't ask
>> Hollywood for help.
>>
>
>
>
> When I first got my job, when the engineer who trained me use to talk
> about his former job, I thought for sure he was BSing. He said he was on
> the design team for the Apollo Mission guidance system.
>
> Finally I asked him: If you are that capable, why the heck are you
> working here?
>
> He said: Ever try to get a job when thousands of you laid off co-workers
> are now looking?

It's actually one of the reasons I didn't want to go into tech when I
had a choice of doing just about anything after high school. Even though
I had a talent for it, especially with problem resolution, I figured
that tons of less talented people would get into it as well because they
saw it as "the future." When supply is high, the salary you're expecting
to get is low so I thought it was smarter to go into teaching, where I
also knew that I'd get my summers off, and be guaranteed a good salary
that only grows with time and which is protected from trends since the
field doesn't quite change no matter what new methods they discover.
Whereas less talented people _might_ get a better salary than me, they
have less time off and need to constantly renew themselves through
training. However, in most cases, they _don't_ get a better salary than
me anyway and their employment is never as secure as mine is.

--
@RabidHussar

On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:41:03 -0500, philo wrote:

> It's amazing what Americans can accomplish when they put their
> minds to it...

Perhaps you mean Germans?

On 9/13/2021 9:29 AM, philo wrote:
> On 9/13/2021 10:22 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 9/13/2021 8:00 AM, philo wrote:
>>> On 9/13/2021 9:39 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On 9/12/2021 5:15 PM, philo wrote:
>>>>> On 9/12/2021 6:10 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/12/2021 3:17 PM, philo wrote:
>>>>>>> I have an old machine in my workshop that as an experiment, loaded
>>>>>>> 32bit
>>>>>>> Win10 on, then enabled the 16 bit subsystem for playing old games.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been running Windows since Windows 2.0. I never saw Windows 1.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>
>
> <snipped for brevity>
>>>> My first PC was in 1987, an IBM XT clone with an 8088 CPU, 64KB of
>>>> RAM and a 20MB HD. It ran MSDOS 3.0. I've run every Microsoft
>>>> operating system since then, with the exception of the NT ones.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You probably don't remember me, but
>>>>> you always gave me good help back then on Usenet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the kind words. I remember your name,  but names from
>>>> those days blur into those from these days, so I'm not sure whether I
>>>> remember you from those days.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> It was a long time ago and there were tons of people on Usenet.
>>>
>>> I worked as a service engineer in the industrial battery field but since
>>> about 2000 had my own home business building and repairing computers.
>>> I also did 15 years of volunteer work for some NPO's and was a Microsoft
>>> Authorized Refurbisher.
>>>
>>>
>>> Between everyone having smartphones (to me, it's akin to watch repair)
>>> and people shut in due to COVID...only now am I getting back into
>>> computer repair...and in the 18 months I've been away, I've had to catch
>>> up a lot.  I am now a huge fan of SSD's and DDR4
>>
>>
>> My new computer has a 2TB NVMe. It's great--much faster than SSDs.
>>
>
> My wife's machine has NVMe. She has more of a need for it that I
> do...she does a lot of editing in Photoshop.

I don't use Photoshop. I don't *need* NVMe, but it's great to have so
many things go so much faster.

> I can get by without it on my own machine, or else I just use hers.
>
>>> I'm also evaluating Win 11 on the Insiders program.
>>> Works great but I prefer the Win10 File Explorer.
>>
>>
>> I'll wait until Windows 11's release on October 5. I don't care about
>> its File Explorer, since I never use it. I greatly prefer Directory
>> Opus; it cost me a few dollars, but I think it was worth it.
>>
>
> If Directory Opus works with Win11, I would gladly pay for it.

It should. Remind me after October 5, and I'll let you know.

> I will keep that in mind. I plan to stay with Win10 for a few years yet.
>>
>>
>>> A few months ago, I needed to build a new computer for my wife and after
>>> I totaled up the parts, found it was cheaper and easier to just get one
>>> off the shelf.
>>
>>
>> Yes, it can be. The main disadvantage of buying off the shelf is that
>> you don't get to select each component. I could perhaps have gotten the
>> same configuration for a little less money, but I wouldn't have been
>> able to get the quality components I chose (with help from Paul and Rene
>> here).
>>
>
> I purchased the one I did simply for the mobo.
> When the day come that I do move to Win11, I will probably buy all new.

I got a new new computer because the old one wasn't compatible with
Windows 11, which I'll install when it's released, and because the old
one was 6 years old, and I wanted a newer faster machine.

--
Ken

On 9/13/2021 11:44 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>
>> My parents had a dial phone and I recall buying a push button phone
>> from some surplus store and hooking it up. It made the tone but did
>> not do anything as tone dialing had not been enabled yet.
>
> Actually, your phone should have worked. Usually, if it didn't, it's
> because the user didn't flip the switch from tone to pulse on the unit
> itself. If it didn't have such an option, it was definitely an exception
> to the rules at the time.
>

Nope, the phone made tones but would not "dial."
I recall specifically that touch tone had not yet been enabled in our area.

This was in the mid- 60's

On 9/13/2021 11:48 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> When I first got my job, when the engineer who trained me use to talk
>> about his former job, I thought for sure he was BSing. He said he was
>> on the design team for the Apollo Mission guidance system.
>>
>> Finally I asked him: If you are that capable, why the heck are you
>> working here?
>>
>> He said: Ever try to get a job when thousands of you laid off
>> co-workers are now looking?
>
> It's actually one of the reasons I didn't want to go into tech when I
> had a choice of doing just about anything after high school. Even though
> I had a talent for it, especially with problem resolution, I figured
> that tons of less talented people would get into it as well because they
> saw it as "the future." When supply is high, the salary you're expecting
> to get is low so I thought it was smarter to go into teaching, where I
> also knew that I'd get my summers off, and be guaranteed a good salary
> that only grows with time and which is protected from trends since the
> field doesn't quite change no matter what new methods they discover.
> Whereas less talented people _might_ get a better salary than me, they
> have less time off and need to constantly renew themselves through
> training. However, in most cases, they _don't_ get a better salary than
> me anyway and their employment is never as secure as mine is.
>

I managed to survive just fine for 38 years with not once being laid off,
Company was bought out several times though.

Started out at a small local company and retired from a world-wide
multi-national. Kept my seniority too.

Of course I was a work-o-holic and if the boss ever wanted to have a
meeting with me I always showed up an hour before they did...then would
walk around asking...wonder where John is.

Not once boss ever scheduled a 2nd meeting

On 2021-09-13 3:05 p.m., philo wrote:
> On 9/13/2021 11:44 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>
>>> My parents had a dial phone and I recall buying a push button phone
>>> from some surplus store and hooking it up. It made the tone but did
>>> not do anything as tone dialing had not been enabled yet.
>>
>> Actually, your phone should have worked. Usually, if it didn't, it's
>> because the user didn't flip the switch from tone to pulse on the unit
>> itself. If it didn't have such an option, it was definitely an
>> exception to the rules at the time.
>>
>
>
>
> Nope, the phone made tones but would not "dial."
> I recall specifically that touch tone had not yet been enabled in our area.
>
> This was in the mid- 60's

Oh, the 60s. I thought you were referring to a time when there were BBS. :)

--
@RabidHussar

On 2021-09-13 3:09 p.m., philo wrote:
> On 9/13/2021 11:48 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When I first got my job, when the engineer who trained me use to talk
>>> about his former job, I thought for sure he was BSing. He said he was
>>> on the design team for the Apollo Mission guidance system.
>>>
>>> Finally I asked him: If you are that capable, why the heck are you
>>> working here?
>>>
>>> He said: Ever try to get a job when thousands of you laid off
>>> co-workers are now looking?
>>
>> It's actually one of the reasons I didn't want to go into tech when I
>> had a choice of doing just about anything after high school. Even
>> though I had a talent for it, especially with problem resolution, I
>> figured that tons of less talented people would get into it as well
>> because they saw it as "the future." When supply is high, the salary
>> you're expecting to get is low so I thought it was smarter to go into
>> teaching, where I also knew that I'd get my summers off, and be
>> guaranteed a good salary that only grows with time and which is
>> protected from trends since the field doesn't quite change no matter
>> what new methods they discover. Whereas less talented people _might_
>> get a better salary than me, they have less time off and need to
>> constantly renew themselves through training. However, in most cases,
>> they _don't_ get a better salary than me anyway and their employment
>> is never as secure as mine is.
>>
>
>
>
> I managed to survive just fine for 38 years with not once being laid off,
> Company was bought out several times though.
>
> Started out at a small local company and retired from a world-wide
> multi-national. Kept my seniority too.
>
> Of course I was a work-o-holic and if the boss ever wanted to have a
> meeting with me I always showed up an hour before they did...then would
> walk around asking...wonder where John is.
>
> Not once boss ever scheduled a 2nd meeting

I'm usually early but I have to admit that I never saw the point to
showing up more than 10 or 15 minutes early either. At some point, you
have things to do. :)

--
@RabidHussar

On 9/13/2021 2:58 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-13 3:09 p.m., philo wrote:
>> On 9/13/2021 11:48 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When I first got my job, when the engineer who trained me use to
>>>> talk about his former job, I thought for sure he was BSing. He said
>>>> he was on the design team for the Apollo Mission guidance system.
>>>>
>>>> Finally I asked him: If you are that capable, why the heck are you
>>>> working here?
>>>>
>>>> He said: Ever try to get a job when thousands of you laid off
>>>> co-workers are now looking?
>>>
>>> It's actually one of the reasons I didn't want to go into tech when I
>>> had a choice of doing just about anything after high school. Even
>>> though I had a talent for it, especially with problem resolution, I
>>> figured that tons of less talented people would get into it as well
>>> because they saw it as "the future." When supply is high, the salary
>>> you're expecting to get is low so I thought it was smarter to go into
>>> teaching, where I also knew that I'd get my summers off, and be
>>> guaranteed a good salary that only grows with time and which is
>>> protected from trends since the field doesn't quite change no matter
>>> what new methods they discover. Whereas less talented people _might_
>>> get a better salary than me, they have less time off and need to
>>> constantly renew themselves through training. However, in most cases,
>>> they _don't_ get a better salary than me anyway and their employment
>>> is never as secure as mine is.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I managed to survive just fine for 38 years with not once being laid off,
>> Company was bought out several times though.
>>
>> Started out at a small local company and retired from a world-wide
>> multi-national. Kept my seniority too.
>>
>> Of course I was a work-o-holic and if the boss ever wanted to have a
>> meeting with me I always showed up an hour before they did...then
>> would walk around asking...wonder where John is.
>>
>> Not once boss ever scheduled a 2nd meeting
>
> I'm usually early but I have to admit that I never saw the point to
> showing up more than 10 or 15 minutes early either. At some point, you
> have things to do. :)
>

My company really didn't worry about hours, they mainly cared that all
of our customers were taken care of.

I've had 20 hour weeks and I've had 100 hour weeks. Typically under 40 .

I usually started at 4 am (most customers ran 24/7) and then by 10 or 12
hung out at the coffee shop. Not too many of my friends even knew I had
a job !

On 9/13/2021 2:57 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-13 3:05 p.m., philo wrote:
>> On 9/13/2021 11:44 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>>
>>>> My parents had a dial phone and I recall buying a push button phone
>>>> from some surplus store and hooking it up. It made the tone but did
>>>> not do anything as tone dialing had not been enabled yet.
>>>
>>> Actually, your phone should have worked. Usually, if it didn't, it's
>>> because the user didn't flip the switch from tone to pulse on the
>>> unit itself. If it didn't have such an option, it was definitely an
>>> exception to the rules at the time.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nope, the phone made tones but would not "dial."
>> I recall specifically that touch tone had not yet been enabled in our
>> area.
>>
>> This was in the mid- 60's
>
> Oh, the 60s. I thought you were referring to a time when there were BBS. :)
>

Not saying I'm old but I still recall coming home from school and my mom
showed me they put a dial on the phone. Though I had no trouble using
it, I did not see why that was better than just asking the the operator
for the number.

On 9/13/2021 1:38 PM, Ken Blake wrote:

<snipped for brevity>

>>>
>>>
>>> My new computer has a 2TB NVMe. It's great--much faster than SSDs.
>>>
>>
>> My wife's machine has NVMe. She has more of a need for it that I
>> do...she does a lot of editing in Photoshop.
>
>
> I don't use Photoshop. I don't *need* NVMe, but it's great to have so
> many things go so much faster.
>
>
>> I can get by without it on my own machine, or else I just use hers.
>>
>>>> I'm also evaluating Win 11 on the Insiders program.
>>>> Works great but I prefer the Win10 File Explorer.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll wait until Windows 11's release on October 5. I don't care about
>>> its File Explorer, since I never use it. I greatly prefer Directory
>>> Opus; it cost me a few dollars, but I think it was worth it.
>>>
>>
>> If Directory Opus works with Win11, I would gladly pay for it.
>
>
> It should. Remind me after October 5, and I'll let you know.

It probably will. I just tried a free alternative and it works.
I'd like to find one as close as possible to Win10's version

>
>
>
>> I will keep that in mind. I plan to stay with Win10 for a few years yet.
>>>
>>>
>>>> A few months ago, I needed to build a new computer for my wife and
>>>> after
>>>> I totaled up the parts, found it was cheaper and easier to just get one
>>>> off the shelf.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, it can be. The main disadvantage of buying off the shelf is that
>>> you don't get to select each component. I could perhaps have gotten
>>> the same configuration for a little less money, but I wouldn't have
>>> been able to get the quality components I chose (with help from Paul
>>> and Rene here).
>>>
>>
>> I purchased the one I did simply for the mobo.
>> When the day come that I do move to Win11, I will probably buy all new.
>
>
>
> I got a new new computer because the old one wasn't compatible with
> Windows 11, which I'll install when it's released, and because the old
> one was 6 years old, and I wanted a newer faster machine.
>
>
>

For me 6 years old is pretty new.

When I saw how well my wife's machine was, I had to get something a
little better for myself...I was still using a legacy BIOS machine.
I converted the drive to GPT then put in an UEFI machine and I'm using
it now. Though the CPU is not approved for Win11, when I do move to
Win11 eventually, I'll put this SSD in the new machine.

On 2021-09-13 4:20 p.m., philo wrote:
> On 9/13/2021 2:57 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
>> On 2021-09-13 3:05 p.m., philo wrote:
>>> On 9/13/2021 11:44 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My parents had a dial phone and I recall buying a push button phone
>>>>> from some surplus store and hooking it up. It made the tone but did
>>>>> not do anything as tone dialing had not been enabled yet.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, your phone should have worked. Usually, if it didn't, it's
>>>> because the user didn't flip the switch from tone to pulse on the
>>>> unit itself. If it didn't have such an option, it was definitely an
>>>> exception to the rules at the time.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nope, the phone made tones but would not "dial."
>>> I recall specifically that touch tone had not yet been enabled in our
>>> area.
>>>
>>> This was in the mid- 60's
>>
>> Oh, the 60s. I thought you were referring to a time when there were
>> BBS. :)
>>
>
>
>
> Not saying I'm old but I still recall coming home from school and my mom
> showed me they put a dial on the phone. Though I had no trouble using
> it, I did not see why that was better than just asking the the operator
> for the number.

LOL, you had to deal with operators? "Not saying [you're] old" is
putting it mildly.

--
@RabidHussar

On 2021-09-13 4:28 p.m., philo wrote:
> On 9/13/2021 1:38 PM, Ken Blake wrote:

>> I got a new new computer because the old one wasn't compatible with
>> Windows 11, which I'll install when it's released, and because the old
>> one was 6 years old, and I wanted a newer faster machine.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> For me 6 years old is pretty new.

In the 90s, a six year-old machine was basically useless. In the 2000s,
not so much. I still use my six year-old machine at work since it's
faster than the garbage Dell laptop they provide for us. Also, I can
install whatever I want on it whereas theirs requires administration
permissions for just about anything. I doubt that I'll retire that
machine even in 2025 on its ten year anniversary.
> When I saw how well my wife's machine was, I had to get something a
> little better for myself...I was still using a legacy BIOS machine.
> I converted the drive to GPT then put in an UEFI machine and I'm using
> it now. Though the CPU is not approved for Win11, when I do move to
> Win11 eventually, I'll put this SSD in the new machine.

There is truly nothing special about Windows 11, to be honest. Maybe
some crazy feature will come eventually but for now, it doesn't do much
that I can't do on a generic Linux install or Windows 10.

--
@RabidHussar

mechanic wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:41:03 -0500, philo wrote:
>
>> It's amazing what Americans can accomplish when they put their
>> minds to it...
>
> Perhaps you mean Germans?

You're referring to Werner.

As for the radiation thing:

"during a time when the radiation in space between Earth and
the moon would have killed normal human beings in minutes"

This is an example of the radiation level required.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_core

"Harry" Daghlian, Jr. 200 rad Died 25 days after the accident

Private Robert Hemmerly 8 rad Died 33 years after accident

The trip to the moon, wouldn't be anywhere near that amount.

A trip to the moon or a trip to Mars, raises the chance of
developing a cancer later in life. Since the Mars dose over
three years round trip is pretty high, the ship will likely have
some amount of shielding. Perhaps part of the cargo will
be on an outer wall, as a part of the shielding solution.
You'll be sitting on bags of frozen cheeseburgers :-)
And bottles of relish and ketchup. That's the only reason
I would go, is if they included cheeseburgers.

The part you cannot predict with certainty, is the "space
weather forecast" and when an X-Class solar flare and CME
is expected. For a person standing on the moon at the wrong
time, they would receive a dose sufficient to require a
"trip to hospital". We could provide slightly better
radiation sickness treatment today, than the unfortunate
scientist in the above example. That's part of the
incentive to be doing a better job on a Mars spaceship,
is making it more solar flare resistant.

Let's hope by the time the people are ready to go to
Mars, there's a warp drive. A long trip in space, with
your muscle tone wasting away, would suck. As an
aspirational thing, screwing around on the moon makes
a lot more sense. You don't have to drag nearly as
many cheeseburgers with you.

Paul

On 9/13/21 3:43 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-13 4:28 p.m., philo wrote:
>> On 9/13/2021 1:38 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>
>>> I got a new new computer because the old one wasn't compatible with
>>> Windows 11, which I'll install when it's released, and because the
>>> old one was 6 years old, and I wanted a newer faster machine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> For me 6 years old is pretty new.
>
> In the 90s, a six year-old machine was basically useless. In the 2000s,
> not so much. I still use my six year-old machine at work since it's
> faster than the garbage Dell laptop they provide for us. Also, I can
> install whatever I want on it whereas theirs requires administration
> permissions for just about anything. I doubt that I'll retire that
> machine even in 2025 on its ten year anniversary.
>> When I saw how well my wife's machine was, I had to get something a
>> little better for myself...I was still using a legacy BIOS machine.
>> I converted the drive to GPT then put in an UEFI machine and I'm using
>> it now. Though the CPU is not approved for Win11, when I do move to
>> Win11 eventually, I'll put this SSD in the new machine.
>
> There is truly nothing special about Windows 11, to be honest. Maybe
> some crazy feature will come eventually but for now, it doesn't do much
> that I can't do on a generic Linux install or Windows 10.
>
>

The machine I'm using now is about 15 years old. Works great with Linux.

It was OK for Win10 also...quad core CPU and 16 gigs of ram

On 9/13/21 3:40 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-13 4:20 p.m., philo wrote:
>> On 9/13/2021 2:57 PM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-13 3:05 p.m., philo wrote:
>>>> On 9/13/2021 11:44 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> My parents had a dial phone and I recall buying a push button
>>>>>> phone from some surplus store and hooking it up. It made the tone
>>>>>> but did not do anything as tone dialing had not been enabled yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, your phone should have worked. Usually, if it didn't,
>>>>> it's because the user didn't flip the switch from tone to pulse on
>>>>> the unit itself. If it didn't have such an option, it was
>>>>> definitely an exception to the rules at the time.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope, the phone made tones but would not "dial."
>>>> I recall specifically that touch tone had not yet been enabled in
>>>> our area.
>>>>
>>>> This was in the mid- 60's
>>>
>>> Oh, the 60s. I thought you were referring to a time when there were
>>> BBS. :)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Not saying I'm old but I still recall coming home from school and my
>> mom showed me they put a dial on the phone. Though I had no trouble
>> using it, I did not see why that was better than just asking the the
>> operator for the number.
>
> LOL, you had to deal with operators? "Not saying [you're] old" is
> putting it mildly.
>

Not only that...I actually used a crank phone.
In 1970, while in the Army stationed out in the desert...there was one
pay phone on base and one had to use the crank to get the operator!

On 9/13/21 4:19 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 at 17:17:30, philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote (my
> responses usually follow points raised):
>> I have an old machine in my workshop that as an experiment, loaded
>> 32bit Win10 on, then enabled the 16 bit subsystem for playing old games.
>>
>> Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .
>>
>> https://ibb.co/M9dgTDp
>
> I bet they weren't called applets - or even apps - then!
>
> (I think I have a couple of [5¼" of course] floppies of Windows 2
> somewhere. Not sure about W1.)
>
> I need 32-bit to run Turnpike (which is 32-bit software, but is a shell
> extension). Still on W7-32 at the moment.

I just think it's great though that I can run those Win1 apps on 32bit Win10