I have an old machine in my workshop that as an experiment, loaded 32bit
Win10 on, then enabled the 16 bit subsystem for playing old games.

Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .

https://ibb.co/M9dgTDp

On 9/12/2021 3:17 PM, philo wrote:
> I have an old machine in my workshop that as an experiment, loaded 32bit
> Win10 on, then enabled the 16 bit subsystem for playing old games.
>
> Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .

I've been running Windows since Windows 2.0. I never saw Windows 1.

--
Ken

On 9/12/2021 6:10 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On 9/12/2021 3:17 PM, philo wrote:
>> I have an old machine in my workshop that as an experiment, loaded 32bit
>> Win10 on, then enabled the 16 bit subsystem for playing old games.
>>
>> Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .
>
>
> I've been running Windows since Windows 2.0. I never saw Windows 1.
>
>

Even though I started out with FORTRAN IV back in the punch card days..
I did not get a PC until about 1999 when my (now) wife gave me her
Packard Bell P-1 with Win95 on it. You probably don't remember me, but
you always gave me good help back then on Usenet.

Before I moved up to Win98, I had to go back and learn all I had missed
so I had to learn DOS and previous versions of Windows. After about six
months I started getting pretty good at it and even started learning
Linux. I even compiled a kernel once. RedHat 5.2 did not have USB
support so I compiled a USB kernel. My system booted and ran but I still
had no USB support.
Years later I had a friend who told me I would also have needed to have
put in information about the architecture of my add-in USB card.
The next Linux kernel had USB support anyway.

Anyway here is a screenshot of Win1 applets running on Win10

https://ibb.co/M9dgTDp

On 9/12/21 3:17 PM, philo wrote:
> Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .

You realize you are dating yourself!

You go that cane shake thing down yet?

"YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!!! I have a lawn???"

:-)

Put it this way.
Somewhere around 1964 . I stopped reading sci-fi when Asimov mentioned a desktop computer. He had gone way too far!

On 9/12/21 9:42 PM, philo wrote:
> Put it this way.
> Somewhere around 1964 . I stopped reading sci-fi when Asimov mentioned a
> desktop computer.  He had gone way too far!

:-)

On 9/12/21 9:42 PM, philo wrote:
> Put it this way.
> Somewhere around 1964 . I stopped reading sci-fi when Asimov mentioned a
> desktop computer.  He had gone way too far!

My first programming job was HPL, doing automated testing

On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 at 17:17:30, philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote (my
responses usually follow points raised):
>I have an old machine in my workshop that as an experiment, loaded
>32bit Win10 on, then enabled the 16 bit subsystem for playing old games.
>
>Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .
>
>https://ibb.co/M9dgTDp

I bet they weren't called applets - or even apps - then!

(I think I have a couple of [5¼" of course] floppies of Windows 2
somewhere. Not sure about W1.)

I need 32-bit to run Turnpike (which is 32-bit software, but is a shell
extension). Still on W7-32 at the moment.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Sarcasm: Barbed ire

Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
> On 9/12/2021 3:17 PM, philo wrote:
> > I have an old machine in my workshop that as an experiment, loaded 32bit
> > Win10 on, then enabled the 16 bit subsystem for playing old games.
> >
> > Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .
>
> I've been running Windows since Windows 2.0. I never saw Windows 1.

Of course being the first version, it was not called/named/<whatever>
'Windows 1', but the version number was indeed 1.0[1].

I used both the 386 and 286 versions at the time. My computer (with
software and printer) cost only a measly 12,000 dollars at the time
[1][2].

[1] Dutch Guilders converted to Euros, converted to today's dollars.

[2] No, I did not pay that, but that was the official list price.

philo <philo@news.novabbs.com> wrote:
> Put it this way.
> Somewhere around 1964 . I stopped reading sci-fi when Asimov mentioned
> a desktop computer. He had gone way too far!

If the book was also from 1964, he wasn't too far ahead. I used (and
supported) a 'desktop computer' in 1968.

<http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=50>

T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 9/12/21 3:17 PM, philo wrote:
> > Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .
>
> You realize you are dating yourself!

Well, if he started early, he could be in his half to late fourties.

For example <very_close_family_member> who used 'Windows 1' (and
earlier PC software) is now 46.

> You go that cane shake thing down yet?
>
> "YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!!! I have a lawn???"
>
> :-)

On 9/12/21 8:15 PM, this is what philo wrote:
>
> Anyway here is a screenshot of Win1 applets running on Win10
>
> https://ibb.co/M9dgTDp
Would be good if something displayed. My screen is blank.

--
Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.2 64bit, Dell Inspiron 5570 laptop
Quad Core i7-8550U, 16G Memory, 512G SSD, 750G & 1TB HDDs

Big Al wrote:
> On 9/12/21 8:15 PM, this is what philo wrote:
>>
>> Anyway here is a screenshot of Win1 applets running on Win10
>>
>> https://ibb.co/M9dgTDp
> Would be good if something displayed. My screen is blank.
>

I copied it over here.

https://i.postimg.cc/WbP3RbGN/Screenshot-3.jpg

It could be a javascript (NoScript) issue. Or your browser isn't
in someones list of "blessed browsers". You know how
kooky web developers are.

Paul

On 9/13/2021 5:24 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>> On 9/12/2021 3:17 PM, philo wrote:
>>> I have an old machine in my workshop that as an experiment, loaded 32bit
>>> Win10 on, then enabled the 16 bit subsystem for playing old games.
>>>
>>> Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .
>>
>> I've been running Windows since Windows 2.0. I never saw Windows 1.
>
> Of course being the first version, it was not called/named/<whatever>
> 'Windows 1', but the version number was indeed 1.0[1].
>
> I used both the 386 and 286 versions at the time. My computer (with
> software and printer) cost only a measly 12,000 dollars at the time
> [1][2].
>
> [1] Dutch Guilders converted to Euros, converted to today's dollars.
>
> [2] No, I did not pay that, but that was the official list price.
>

I still remember when a friend gave me his father's old Kaypro.
When I told him how much it cost new, he said: "No wonder my mother got
so mad!"

BTW: I collect obsolete computers and a added a memory expansion board
from a 386 to a 286 and got it to recognize all 16 megs of RAM.

Had it been possible to add that much RAM to a 286 at the time it was
built, only Bill Gates could have afforded it.

On 9/12/2021 5:15 PM, philo wrote:
> On 9/12/2021 6:10 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 9/12/2021 3:17 PM, philo wrote:
>>> I have an old machine in my workshop that as an experiment, loaded 32bit
>>> Win10 on, then enabled the 16 bit subsystem for playing old games.
>>>
>>> Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .
>>
>>
>> I've been running Windows since Windows 2.0. I never saw Windows 1.
>>
>>
>
>
> Even though I started out with FORTRAN IV back in the punch card days..

I started out in 1962 on a 4K IBM 1401 with no hard drives but a card
reader/punch, programming in SPS, then moved on to Autocoder, when we
upgraded to 8K of memory and two tape drives.

Back in those days I was an expert on the 1401. I knew almost everything
that it was possible to know about it and all its software. Computers
were a lot simpler back then; nobody can come even close to knowing
everything about any modern computer and all its software.

As an example of what I mean, I just had a new PC built for me a friend
who is a hardware expert. I watched him do it and I was amazed at little
I knew about what he was was doing. He knows a lot more about hardware
than I do, but I know a lot more about software than he does.

I wrote a Fortran program once or twice, but since I never needed to use
it in any of my jobs, I never became proficient in it.

I went on to work programming on an IBM 7080, 1410, 360, 370, system/23,
and Univac II, in a variety of languages, but mostly COBOL. I also wrote
a couple of programs in PC assembler language, but it was never enough
to become proficient at it.

> I did not get a PC until about 1999 when my (now) wife gave me her
> Packard Bell P-1 with Win95 on it.

My first PC was in 1987, an IBM XT clone with an 8088 CPU, 64KB of RAM
and a 20MB HD. It ran MSDOS 3.0. I've run every Microsoft operating
system since then, with the exception of the NT ones.

> You probably don't remember me, but
> you always gave me good help back then on Usenet.

Thanks for the kind words. I remember your name, but names from those
days blur into those from these days, so I'm not sure whether I remember
you from those days.

> Before I moved up to Win98, I had to go back and learn all I had missed
> so I had to learn DOS and previous versions of Windows. After about six
> months I started getting pretty good at it and even started learning
> Linux.

As I said here more than once, I've never had any interest in learning
Linux, and I've never used it.

> I even compiled a kernel once. RedHat 5.2 did not have USB
> support so I compiled a USB kernel. My system booted and ran but I still
> had no USB support.
> Years later I had a friend who told me I would also have needed to have
> put in information about the architecture of my add-in USB card.
> The next Linux kernel had USB support anyway.
>
>
> Anyway here is a screenshot of Win1 applets running on Win10
>
> https://ibb.co/M9dgTDp
>

--
Ken

On 9/13/2021 4:51 AM, Big Al wrote:
> On 9/12/21 8:15 PM, this is what philo wrote:
>>
>> Anyway here is a screenshot of Win1 applets running on Win10
>>
>> https://ibb.co/M9dgTDp
> Would be good if something displayed. My screen is blank.

It displays fine here. You should look into what's wrong with your
system/setup, not what's wrong with the URL.

--
Ken

On 9/13/2021 3:24 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>> On 9/12/2021 3:17 PM, philo wrote:
>> > I have an old machine in my workshop that as an experiment, loaded 32bit
>> > Win10 on, then enabled the 16 bit subsystem for playing old games.
>> >
>> > Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .
>>
>> I've been running Windows since Windows 2.0. I never saw Windows 1.
>
> Of course being the first version, it was not called/named/<whatever>
> 'Windows 1', but the version number was indeed 1.0[1].
>
> I used both the 386 and 286 versions at the time. My computer (with
> software and printer) cost only a measly 12,000 dollars at the time
> [1][2].
>
> [1] Dutch Guilders converted to Euros, converted to today's dollars.
>
> [2] No, I did not pay that, but that was the official list price.

In another message in this thread, I just mentioned the configuration of
my first PC, bought in 1987. With a 13" B&W monitor and a dot-matrix
printer, it cost me $1,300 then. According to
https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1987?amount=1300 that $1300
would be worth $3,124.15 today.

My new computer cost me about $1,800. Add in the cost of my keyboard,
mouse, B&W laser printer, and two 24" color monitors, and my total
expenditure comes to about $2,250--a lot cheaper than $3,124.15 for a
lot more speed, power, memory, disk space, etc.

--
Ken

On 9/13/2021 9:39 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On 9/12/2021 5:15 PM, philo wrote:
>> On 9/12/2021 6:10 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On 9/12/2021 3:17 PM, philo wrote:
>>>> I have an old machine in my workshop that as an experiment, loaded
>>>> 32bit
>>>> Win10 on, then enabled the 16 bit subsystem for playing old games.
>>>>
>>>> Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .
>>>
>>>
>>> I've been running Windows since Windows 2.0. I never saw Windows 1.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Even though I started out with FORTRAN IV back in the punch card days..
>
>
>
> I started out in 1962 on a 4K IBM 1401 with no hard drives but a card
> reader/punch, programming in SPS, then moved on to Autocoder, when we
> upgraded to 8K of memory and two tape drives.
>
> Back in those days I was an expert on the 1401. I knew almost everything
> that it was possible to know about it and all its software. Computers
> were a lot simpler back then; nobody can come even close to knowing
> everything about any modern computer and all its software.
>
> As an example of what I mean, I just had a new PC built for me a friend
> who is a hardware expert. I watched him do it and I was amazed at little
> I knew about what he was was doing. He knows a lot more about hardware
> than I do, but I know a lot more about software than he does.
>
> I wrote a Fortran program once or twice, but since I never needed to use
> it in any of my jobs, I never became proficient in it.
>
> I went on to work programming on an IBM 7080, 1410, 360, 370, system/23,
> and Univac II, in a variety of languages, but mostly COBOL. I also wrote
> a couple of programs in PC assembler language, but it was never enough
> to become proficient at it.
>
>
>
>> I did not get a PC until about 1999 when my (now) wife gave me her
>> Packard Bell P-1 with Win95 on it.
>
>
> My first PC was in 1987, an IBM XT clone with an 8088 CPU, 64KB of RAM
> and a 20MB HD. It ran MSDOS 3.0. I've run every Microsoft operating
> system since then, with the exception of the NT ones.
>
>
>
>> You probably don't remember me, but
>> you always gave me good help back then on Usenet.
>
>
> Thanks for the kind words. I remember your name,  but names from those
> days blur into those from these days, so I'm not sure whether I remember
> you from those days.
>
>
>

<snip>

It was a long time ago and there were tons of people on Usenet.

I worked as a service engineer in the industrial battery field but since
about 2000 had my own home business building and repairing computers.
I also did 15 years of volunteer work for some NPO's and was a Microsoft
Authorized Refurbisher.

Between everyone having smartphones (to me, it's akin to watch repair)
and people shut in due to COVID...only now am I getting back into
computer repair...and in the 18 months I've been away, I've had to catch
up a lot. I am now a huge fan of SSD's and DDR4

I'm also evaluating Win 11 on the Insiders program.
Works great but I prefer the Win10 File Explorer.

A few months ago, I needed to build a new computer for my wife and after
I totaled up the parts, found it was cheaper and easier to just get one
off the shelf.

Then for myself, I was going to spoil my record of 100% building my own
machines, but I found a great deal on eBay with no OS that I could not
pass up.

It arrived damaged due to poor packaging and I got a partial
refund...but really, I was happy because I had to re-case the machine...
so I can still say I 100% build my own.

It kind of looks like a HS science project...but heck, it works great.

On 2021-09-12 7:10 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
> On 9/12/2021 3:17 PM, philo wrote:
>> I have an old machine in my workshop that as an experiment, loaded 32bit
>> Win10 on, then enabled the 16 bit subsystem for playing old games.
>>
>> Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .
>
>
> I've been running Windows since Windows 2.0. I never saw Windows 1.

I guess you live in Nebraska then!

See the Windows 1.0 commercial to understand the joke.

--
@RabidHussar

On 9/13/2021 8:00 AM, philo wrote:
> On 9/13/2021 9:39 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 9/12/2021 5:15 PM, philo wrote:
>>> On 9/12/2021 6:10 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On 9/12/2021 3:17 PM, philo wrote:
>>>>> I have an old machine in my workshop that as an experiment, loaded
>>>>> 32bit
>>>>> Win10 on, then enabled the 16 bit subsystem for playing old games.
>>>>>
>>>>> Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've been running Windows since Windows 2.0. I never saw Windows 1.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Even though I started out with FORTRAN IV back in the punch card days..
>>
>>
>>
>> I started out in 1962 on a 4K IBM 1401 with no hard drives but a card
>> reader/punch, programming in SPS, then moved on to Autocoder, when we
>> upgraded to 8K of memory and two tape drives.
>>
>> Back in those days I was an expert on the 1401. I knew almost everything
>> that it was possible to know about it and all its software. Computers
>> were a lot simpler back then; nobody can come even close to knowing
>> everything about any modern computer and all its software.
>>
>> As an example of what I mean, I just had a new PC built for me a friend
>> who is a hardware expert. I watched him do it and I was amazed at little
>> I knew about what he was was doing. He knows a lot more about hardware
>> than I do, but I know a lot more about software than he does.
>>
>> I wrote a Fortran program once or twice, but since I never needed to use
>> it in any of my jobs, I never became proficient in it.
>>
>> I went on to work programming on an IBM 7080, 1410, 360, 370, system/23,
>> and Univac II, in a variety of languages, but mostly COBOL. I also wrote
>> a couple of programs in PC assembler language, but it was never enough
>> to become proficient at it.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I did not get a PC until about 1999 when my (now) wife gave me her
>>> Packard Bell P-1 with Win95 on it.
>>
>>
>> My first PC was in 1987, an IBM XT clone with an 8088 CPU, 64KB of RAM
>> and a 20MB HD. It ran MSDOS 3.0. I've run every Microsoft operating
>> system since then, with the exception of the NT ones.
>>
>>
>>
>>> You probably don't remember me, but
>>> you always gave me good help back then on Usenet.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the kind words. I remember your name,  but names from those
>> days blur into those from these days, so I'm not sure whether I remember
>> you from those days.
>>
>>
>>
>
> <snip>
>
> It was a long time ago and there were tons of people on Usenet.
>
> I worked as a service engineer in the industrial battery field but since
> about 2000 had my own home business building and repairing computers.
> I also did 15 years of volunteer work for some NPO's and was a Microsoft
> Authorized Refurbisher.
>
>
> Between everyone having smartphones (to me, it's akin to watch repair)
> and people shut in due to COVID...only now am I getting back into
> computer repair...and in the 18 months I've been away, I've had to catch
> up a lot. I am now a huge fan of SSD's and DDR4

My new computer has a 2TB NVMe. It's great--much faster than SSDs.

> I'm also evaluating Win 11 on the Insiders program.
> Works great but I prefer the Win10 File Explorer.

I'll wait until Windows 11's release on October 5. I don't care about
its File Explorer, since I never use it. I greatly prefer Directory
Opus; it cost me a few dollars, but I think it was worth it.

> A few months ago, I needed to build a new computer for my wife and after
> I totaled up the parts, found it was cheaper and easier to just get one
> off the shelf.

Yes, it can be. The main disadvantage of buying off the shelf is that
you don't get to select each component. I could perhaps have gotten the
same configuration for a little less money, but I wouldn't have been
able to get the quality components I chose (with help from Paul and Rene
here).

My wife uses an inexpensive Dell. It's fine for her, since she uses it
for little more than e-mail, an occasional web search, and a solitaire
card game or two. If I upgraded her to a machine like mine, she'd never
know the difference.

> Then for myself, I was going to spoil my record of 100% building my own
> machines, but I found a great deal on eBay with no OS that I could not
> pass up.

As I said earlier in another thread, I built a couple of machines
myself, some two decades or so ago, but I was amazed at how different
and difficult it was these days. Adding to that that I'm two decades
older and apparently have grown some extra thumbs, I'm very glad I
didn't try to do it myself.

> It arrived damaged due to poor packaging and I got a partial
> refund...but really, I was happy because I had to re-case the machine...
> so I can still say I 100% build my own.
>
> It kind of looks like a HS science project...but heck, it works great.
>

--
Ken

On 2021-09-13 12:42 a.m., philo wrote:
> Put it this way.
> Somewhere around 1964 . I stopped reading sci-fi when Asimov mentioned a
> desktop computer.  He had gone way too far!

If he had mentioned that those desktop computers would mostly be used to
consume porn from the moment they got connected to the Internet, your
mind would likely literally explode.

--
@RabidHussar

On 9/13/2021 9:51 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On 9/13/2021 3:24 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 9/12/2021 3:17 PM, philo wrote:
>>> > I have an old machine in my workshop that as an experiment, loaded
>>> 32bit
>>> > Win10 on, then enabled the 16 bit subsystem for playing old games.
>>> > > Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .
>>>
>>> I've been running Windows since Windows 2.0. I never saw Windows 1.
>>
>>    Of course being the first version, it was not called/named/<whatever>
>> 'Windows 1', but the version number was indeed 1.0[1].
>>
>>    I used both the 386 and 286 versions at the time. My computer (with
>> software and printer) cost only a measly 12,000 dollars at the time
>> [1][2].
>>
>> [1] Dutch Guilders converted to Euros, converted to today's dollars.
>>
>> [2] No, I did not pay that, but that was the official list price.
>
>
> In another message in this thread, I just mentioned the configuration of
> my first PC, bought in 1987. With a 13" B&W monitor and a dot-matrix
> printer, it cost me $1,300 then. According to
> https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1987?amount=1300 that $1300
> would be worth $3,124.15 today.
>
> My new computer cost me about $1,800. Add in the cost of my keyboard,
> mouse, B&W laser printer, and two 24" color monitors, and my total
> expenditure comes to about $2,250--a lot cheaper than $3,124.15 for a
> lot more speed, power, memory, disk space, etc.
>
>

I was with my (now) wife when she spent $1600 for her P1 including
monitor and printer. I thought she was nuts for spending that much money.

A few years later when she gave it to me, I replaced the 850 meg HD with
a 2 GB.

I broke out into a cold sweat handling something that large !

On 9/13/2021 8:22 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On 9/13/2021 8:00 AM, philo wrote:
>> On 9/13/2021 9:39 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On 9/12/2021 5:15 PM, philo wrote:
>>>> On 9/12/2021 6:10 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>> On 9/12/2021 3:17 PM, philo wrote:
>>>>>> I have an old machine in my workshop that as an experiment, loaded
>>>>>> 32bit
>>>>>> Win10 on, then enabled the 16 bit subsystem for playing old games.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Much to my surprise, it could even run Win 1 applets .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been running Windows since Windows 2.0. I never saw Windows 1.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Even though I started out with FORTRAN IV back in the punch card days..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I started out in 1962 on a 4K IBM 1401 with no hard drives but a card
>>> reader/punch, programming in SPS, then moved on to Autocoder, when we
>>> upgraded to 8K of memory and two tape drives.
>>>
>>> Back in those days I was an expert on the 1401. I knew almost everything
>>> that it was possible to know about it and all its software. Computers
>>> were a lot simpler back then; nobody can come even close to knowing
>>> everything about any modern computer and all its software.
>>>
>>> As an example of what I mean, I just had a new PC built for me a friend
>>> who is a hardware expert. I watched him do it and I was amazed at little
>>> I knew about what he was was doing. He knows a lot more about hardware
>>> than I do, but I know a lot more about software than he does.
>>>
>>> I wrote a Fortran program once or twice, but since I never needed to use
>>> it in any of my jobs, I never became proficient in it.
>>>
>>> I went on to work programming on an IBM 7080, 1410, 360, 370, system/23,
>>> and Univac II, in a variety of languages, but mostly COBOL. I also wrote
>>> a couple of programs in PC assembler language, but it was never enough
>>> to become proficient at it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I did not get a PC until about 1999 when my (now) wife gave me her
>>>> Packard Bell P-1 with Win95 on it.
>>>
>>>
>>> My first PC was in 1987, an IBM XT clone with an 8088 CPU, 64KB of RAM
>>> and a 20MB HD. It ran MSDOS 3.0. I've run every Microsoft operating
>>> system since then, with the exception of the NT ones.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> You probably don't remember me, but
>>>> you always gave me good help back then on Usenet.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the kind words. I remember your name,  but names from those
>>> days blur into those from these days, so I'm not sure whether I remember
>>> you from those days.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> It was a long time ago and there were tons of people on Usenet.
>>
>> I worked as a service engineer in the industrial battery field but since
>> about 2000 had my own home business building and repairing computers.
>> I also did 15 years of volunteer work for some NPO's and was a Microsoft
>> Authorized Refurbisher.
>>
>>
>> Between everyone having smartphones (to me, it's akin to watch repair)
>> and people shut in due to COVID...only now am I getting back into
>> computer repair...and in the 18 months I've been away, I've had to catch
>> up a lot. I am now a huge fan of SSD's and DDR4
>
>
> My new computer has a 2TB NVMe. It's great--much faster than SSDs.
>
>> I'm also evaluating Win 11 on the Insiders program.
>> Works great but I prefer the Win10 File Explorer.
>
>
> I'll wait until Windows 11's release on October 5. I don't care about
> its File Explorer, since I never use it. I greatly prefer Directory
> Opus; it cost me a few dollars, but I think it was worth it.
>
>
>
>> A few months ago, I needed to build a new computer for my wife and after
>> I totaled up the parts, found it was cheaper and easier to just get one
>> off the shelf.
>
>
> Yes, it can be. The main disadvantage of buying off the shelf is that
> you don't get to select each component. I could perhaps have gotten the
> same configuration for a little less money, but I wouldn't have been
> able to get the quality components I chose (with help from Paul and Rene
> here).

Out of curiosity, I just went to the Dell web site and configured an
Alienware PC with a configuration as close to mine as possible. It came
to $4,129.99, a lot more than the $1800 I paid for my components. The
Alienware comes with a graphics card and I don't have one, but that
doesn't make up for the $2,330 price difference.

> My wife uses an inexpensive Dell. It's fine for her, since she uses it
> for little more than e-mail, an occasional web search, and a solitaire
> card game or two. If I upgraded her to a machine like mine, she'd never
> know the difference.
>
>
>> Then for myself, I was going to spoil my record of 100% building my own
>> machines, but I found a great deal on eBay with no OS that I could not
>> pass up.
>
>
> As I said earlier in another thread, I built a couple of machines
> myself, some two decades or so ago, but I was amazed at how different
> and difficult it was these days. Adding to that that I'm two decades
> older and apparently have grown some extra thumbs, I'm very glad I
> didn't try to do it myself.
>
>
>
>> It arrived damaged due to poor packaging and I got a partial
>> refund...but really, I was happy because I had to re-case the machine...
>> so I can still say I 100% build my own.
>>
>> It kind of looks like a HS science project...but heck, it works great.
>>
>
>

--
Ken

On 9/13/2021 10:23 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-13 12:42 a.m., philo wrote:
>> Put it this way.
>> Somewhere around 1964 . I stopped reading sci-fi when Asimov mentioned
>> a desktop computer.  He had gone way too far!
>
> If he had mentioned that those desktop computers would mostly be used to
> consume porn from the moment they got connected to the Internet, your
> mind would likely literally explode.
>

I was thinking huge, vacuum tube computers. Though I certainly knew
about transistors, I could not imagine IC's and CPU chips.

philo@news.novabbs.com (philo) wrote:

>Put it this way.
>Somewhere around 1964 . I stopped reading sci-fi when Asimov mentioned a desktop computer. He had gone way too far!

On the other side, I remember reading a Robert Heinlein book set in
the future where people carried around slide rules for quick
calculations. Apparently he never even thought about handheld
calculators. Then again, in the late 50's and early 60's who did?

--
Tim Slattery
tim <at> risingdove <dot> com