Unfortunately I don't have a multimeter.

Before changing the battery I was going to try and wait
till I saw the F12 on the screen and then click F2 to access
the BIOS but for some reason the F12 never showed and
went directly to the MBR where it counts down from 29
seconds before logging onto to the desktop.

Honestly, I don't remembering us changing anything on the
BIOS.

As I recall we tried to change to boot order to select the
optical drive but it didn't change the boot order but allowed me
to select the optical drive manually. Other than I can't think of
anything I've done.

Even if it sets things back to default that shouldn't hurt the
computer should it?

Robert

> As I recall we tried to change to boot order to select the
> optical drive but it didn't change the boot order but allowed me
> to select the optical drive manually. Other than I can't think of
> anything I've done.

This was when we were trying to get the Macrium cd's to load.

Robert

btw I tried pressing F2 and it took me to the countdown screen
immediately. Maybe thats why the F12 doesn't show anymore?

So should I proceed and change the battery?

We should be able to change to BIOS if needed, correct?
Robert

If I have to click F2 to change the BIOS then I have never
done anything.

The only F keys I've done is F12

Robert

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 20:39:30 -0800 (PST), Robert in CA
<magineer02@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I was wrong and too quick on the draw.
>The problem came back. I shut it down
>earlier and this last time was like before
>and took an abnormally long time to boot.
>

Del

I really ain't following this thread, but an old beef came up
reading just the Subject. It's this: why don't people get a backup
proggie the makes incremental backups of their C:? My
old-as-the-hills Acronis True Image has saved my butt literally
dozens of times over the years.

Why drive yourself crazy when you KNOW your C: is going to go nuts
time and again?

On 2/13/2022 2:06 PM, Cal@invalid.com wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 20:39:30 -0800 (PST), Robert in CA
> <magineer02@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I was wrong and too quick on the draw.
>> The problem came back. I shut it down
>> earlier and this last time was like before
>> and took an abnormally long time to boot.
>>
>
> Del
>
> I really ain't following this thread, but an old beef came up
> reading just the Subject. It's this: why don't people get a backup
> proggie the makes incremental backups of their C:? My
> old-as-the-hills Acronis True Image has saved my butt literally
> dozens of times over the years.
>
> Why drive yourself crazy when you KNOW your C: is going to go nuts
> time and again?
>

He has backups.

What he doesn't have backups for is a Power Switch and custom harness
made by Dell. When simpler designs would have been perfectly adequate.

Dell always has to find the most difficult way to do everything.
Including BIOS settings. I have one, and it always leaves me
scratching my head, asking "what were they thinking". Most of
my working machines, are home built. The latest an AMD with an MSI mobo.

Paul

On 2/13/2022 1:03 PM, Robert in CA wrote:
> Unfortunately I don't have a multimeter.
>
> Before changing the battery I was going to try and wait
> till I saw the F12 on the screen and then click F2 to access
> the BIOS but for some reason the F12 never showed and
> went directly to the MBR where it counts down from 29
> seconds before logging onto to the desktop.
>
> Honestly, I don't remembering us changing anything on the
> BIOS.
>
> As I recall we tried to change to boot order to select the
> optical drive but it didn't change the boot order but allowed me
> to select the optical drive manually. Other than I can't think of
> anything I've done.
>
> Even if it sets things back to default that shouldn't hurt the
> computer should it?
>
> Robert
>

There is a countdown in modern Windows, if you have the
legacy (black) boot screen set up.

As Admin, this places the legacy boot screen, black with F8 option,
in place of the Modern Vista+ boot menu with square icons. This
menu counts down from 30, but you can also change that time
constant as well. The purpose of having this menu, was to make
it easier to access Safe Mode F8.

bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True

Paul

On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 14:47:57 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>On 2/13/2022 2:06 PM, Cal@invalid.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 20:39:30 -0800 (PST), Robert in CA
>> <magineer02@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I was wrong and too quick on the draw.
>>> The problem came back. I shut it down
>>> earlier and this last time was like before
>>> and took an abnormally long time to boot.
>>>
>>
>> Del
>>
>> I really ain't following this thread, but an old beef came up
>> reading just the Subject. It's this: why don't people get a backup
>> proggie the makes incremental backups of their C:? My
>> old-as-the-hills Acronis True Image has saved my butt literally
>> dozens of times over the years.
>>
>> Why drive yourself crazy when you KNOW your C: is going to go nuts
>> time and again?
>>
>
>He has backups.
>
>What he doesn't have backups for is a Power Switch and custom harness
>made by Dell. When simpler designs would have been perfectly adequate.
>
>Dell always has to find the most difficult way to do everything.
>Including BIOS settings. I have one, and it always leaves me
>scratching my head, asking "what were they thinking". Most of
>my working machines, are home built. The latest an AMD with an MSI mobo.
>
> Paul

Well, as I said, I didn't read the main thread. As for Dell, I gave up
on them almost 2 decades ago when they kept sending me units that were
missing some of the extras I ordered, but kept trying to charge me for
them.. I keep it simple anymore. I have my comps built at a local
shop. That way, I get exactly what I ordered.

As you may have guessed, I ain't the tech type. :o)

On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 14:12:02 -0600, sam@invalid.com wrote:

>On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 14:47:57 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On 2/13/2022 2:06 PM, Cal@invalid.com wrote:
>>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 20:39:30 -0800 (PST), Robert in CA
>>> <magineer02@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was wrong and too quick on the draw.
>>>> The problem came back. I shut it down
>>>> earlier and this last time was like before
>>>> and took an abnormally long time to boot.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Del
>>>
>>> I really ain't following this thread, but an old beef came up
>>> reading just the Subject. It's this: why don't people get a backup
>>> proggie the makes incremental backups of their C:? My
>>> old-as-the-hills Acronis True Image has saved my butt literally
>>> dozens of times over the years.
>>>
>>> Why drive yourself crazy when you KNOW your C: is going to go nuts
>>> time and again?
>>>
>>
>>He has backups.
>>
>>What he doesn't have backups for is a Power Switch and custom harness
>>made by Dell. When simpler designs would have been perfectly adequate.
>>
>>Dell always has to find the most difficult way to do everything.
>>Including BIOS settings. I have one, and it always leaves me
>>scratching my head, asking "what were they thinking". Most of
>>my working machines, are home built. The latest an AMD with an MSI mobo.
>>
>> Paul
>
>Well, as I said, I didn't read the main thread. As for Dell, I gave up
>on them almost 2 decades ago when they kept sending me units that were
>missing some of the extras I ordered, but kept trying to charge me for
>them.. I keep it simple anymore. I have my comps built at a local
>shop. That way, I get exactly what I ordered.
>
>As you may have guessed, I ain't the tech type. :o)

Sorry 'bout the nym shift. Posted with the wrong Agent. :o(

- Cal@invalid.com -

So am I OK to proceed and change the battery?

Robert

On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 at 00:28:36, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote (my
responses usually follow points raised):
[]
>I still don't understand what that plastic assembly is supposed
>to achieve. It looks like there is an offset between where
>the button operates and where the switch is placed.

Yes, there is. Because they wanted the button itself to light up when
the PC is on. But instead of using a switch with an LED in it - of which
there are many types - they used a standard cheap switch, and a normal
LED - and then went to this complicated design of gluing/fusing a little
spar to the bottom of the button. The button pushes against the top of
the LED (or its diffuser), doing nothing, with a side spar to press the
switch:

___BBB
## _^_ where ##___BBB is the button with its side spar.
SW /LED\ (The ___## part is the clear plastic side spar.)
|| | | <- wires (4 out of 6 - the others go to a different LED)
So when the button presses the switch, and the power comes on, the LED
shines ^ through the button (which has the international power symbol -
a circle and a line - transparent in it, the rest being black. The loopy
things at the side of the button are just a way of making the button -
cast as a one piece of black plastic, including those loopy bits -
springy, so the user thinks he's pressing on something with pushback.

>If the plastic bends, then perhaps not enough force is
>transferred to the switch.

Hence my suggestion that Robert adds a dob of glue - or anything - to
the bit of the spar (## above) that actually presses the switch.
[]
>A washer isn't going to help the problem, unless it
>brings the switch, closer to whatever functions as a
>plunger.
>
> Paul
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I'm the oldest woman on primetime not baking cakes.
- Anne Robinson, RT 2015/8/15-21

Great, I changed the battery but now I can't change the year date
It's stuck on 2005 and gives short date and long dates.until
I can change it the computer doesn't work.

I put :

2/13/2022 - short date
February 13, 2022 - as the long date
whatever I put it doesn't like.

When I click the down arrow this is what it shows
For short date
M/d/yyyy
M/d/yy
MM/dd/yy
MM/dd/yyyy
yy-MM-dd
dd-MMM-yy

For long date:

dddd,MMMM dd, yyyyy
MMMM dd, yyyy
dddd, dd MMMM, yyyy
dd, MMMM, yyyy

how am I suppose to know why format to follow?

please help because now I can't even use the 8500

Robert

This is what I'm putting in which is exactly as their example
but it doesn't take

2/13/2022 - short date
Sunday February 13, 2022 - long date

and it rejects it. Yet that's how the examples show it but
it doesn't work.

So what do I do?

Robert

On 2/14/2022 12:19 AM, Robert in CA wrote:
>
>
> This is what I'm putting in which is exactly as their example
> but it doesn't take
>
> 2/13/2022 - short date
> Sunday February 13, 2022 - long date
>
> and it rejects it. Yet that's how the examples show it but
> it doesn't work.
>
> So what do I do?
>
> Robert
>

There's a control panel in Windows for that.

Control Panel : Date and Time : Internet Time : Change Settings

+---+
| X | Synchronize with an Internet time server
+---+
Server: time.windows.com Update Now button <====

Click the button. It could take five to ten seconds
for the operation to complete.

Do not panic, if the word "Error" occurs on the screen.
Just re-check the time and see that the issue is resolved.
The interface has various stupid things it does, and not
every error is an error.

There is more than one Internet time server. You do not
have to use that exact server, for it to work. There are
also the "pool" servers, where a machine in the pool is
picked at random to provide the time service.

Occasionally, there are time server outages, even time server
errors. I synched a machine once, and the time server was
off by 20 minutes.

GPS provides a very accurate time reference. If you have
a smartphone with GPS, it may be able to provide verification
that the Windows time is within a second of the correct value.
I'm not advocating somehow, for a smartphone, just pointing out
that "if you don't know what time it is", there is inadvertent
technology in the room to give very accurate answers. You may have
to stand outside, for the smartphone to see a constellation of
four GPS satellites. When I had my GPS running in the house,
by holding the receiver near the window, I could see two birds.
It could "see" seven birds, but the signal level was too low
on five of those. One bird was "green", strong signal, the
second bird was "yellow", the other five were "red" status.

Paul

I don't understand it, I'm following the format to change
the date but each time it comes back and says 'One of more
of the characters of the Short Date format are invalid. Try
using different characters.

I'm following their exact formnat how can it be wrong?

I cannot click to your link because the 8500
wont connect to anything without the clock

Robert

The 8500 is set to 2005 and I can't get it to change and until then
I don't have access to anything. I have tried numerous times but
none work.

Robert

This should be a simple operation to change the year but its
not. Until I can change the year I'm dead in the water.

Please help

Robert

> There's a control panel in Windows for that.
>
> Control Panel : Date and Time : Internet Time : Change Settings
>
I have been using the Control panel >Clock, Language, and Region > Date
and Time > changing calendar settings. I have attempted to use the control
panel several times to change the year from 2005 to 2022
but none have worked.

I have followed the example of the Customize Format Date tab but it doesn't
work.

I'm trying to follow instructions but they don't seem to work.

I don't know what else to do?

Please help me change the date from 2005 to 2022

Thanks,
Robert

On 2/14/2022 12:42 AM, Robert in CA wrote:
> I don't understand it, I'm following the format to change
> the date but each time it comes back and says 'One of more
> of the characters of the Short Date format are invalid. Try
> using different characters.
>
> I'm following their exact formnat how can it be wrong?
>

Administrator Command Prompt

date <=== the command for it

The Current date is: Mon 02/14/2022
Enter the new date: (mm-dd-yy) 02-14-22 <=== very hard to type this in
correctly the first time

That will set the numeric date at least.

Paul

> >
> Administrator Command Prompt
>
> date <=== the command for it
>
> The Current date is: Mon 02/14/2022
> Enter the new date: (mm-dd-yy) 02-14-22 <=== very hard to type this in
> correctly the first time
>
> That will set the numeric date at least.
>
> Paul

I had to logon to the Admin Account because it couldn't switch
to the Admin CMD promp from the User Account.

I typed Date

then it said

The current date is Mon 02/14/2005
Enter the new date: <mm-dd-yy> I typed 02-14-22
and it came back with 'a required privilage is not held by the client.
and then gave me the command line.

C:\Users/Commander>

I did it exactly as you instructed and the same thing happened as
when I tried to go through the Control panel. Nothing is working.
Even though it should. What's going on here? I hope I haven't lost
the 8500 by changing the battery because nothing I do is restoring
the date.

Robert

Also, changing the battery did nothing and
is still hard to start but the bigger problem
now is getting the date back to 2022 on the
8500.

Robert

On 2/14/2022 4:42 AM, Robert in CA wrote:
>>>
>> Administrator Command Prompt
>>
>> date <=== the command for it
>>
>> The Current date is: Mon 02/14/2022
>> Enter the new date: (mm-dd-yy) 02-14-22 <=== very hard to type this in
>> correctly the first time
>>
>> That will set the numeric date at least.
>>
>> Paul
>
>
> I had to logon to the Admin Account because it couldn't switch
> to the Admin CMD promp from the User Account.
>
> I typed Date
>
> then it said
>
> The current date is Mon 02/14/2005
> Enter the new date: <mm-dd-yy> I typed 02-14-22
> and it came back with 'a required privilage is not held by the client.
> and then gave me the command line.
>
> C:\Users/Commander>
>
> I did it exactly as you instructed and the same thing happened as
> when I tried to go through the Control panel. Nothing is working.
> Even though it should. What's going on here? I hope I haven't lost
> the 8500 by changing the battery because nothing I do is restoring
> the date.
>
> Robert
>

It's possible this applies to other OSes as well.

"Windows 10 set time privilege missing"

https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/e4b338a8-110d-4cfb-9e6e-e0376de3d7f3/windows-10-set-time-privilege-missing?forum=win10itprogeneral

Since you are the Administrator, that eliminates some possibilities.
However, there is this one.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/you-cannot-change-system-time-if-realtimeisuniversal-registry-entry-is-enabled-in-windows-78cf9fbe-eeca-4b06-a67a-2dacdf5189f9

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation
RealTimeIsUniversal DWORD 1

If you booted back and forth between Windows and Linux,
you would notice that the clock keeps getting screwed
up by a fixed number of hours. the time difference
is the difference between local time ("Eastern") and
UTC (Universal time).

Using the above registry key, happens when a user decides
to fix the Windows versus Linux issue permanently. You can
boot back and forth, and the time stops changing.

However, that setting isn't as "easy" as it looks. And
this failure to set the time, may be an example of that.

You could set RealTimeIsUniversal to 0, and retest.

Now, I don't even have that key, which implies that to
gain that one, it must be added to the registry, and
the registry does not come with it by default.

Anyway, have a look and see if that lines up.

I would be more willing to believe that you logged in
with an account which really isn't administrator.
You can do

whoami /user /priv

and get some idea whether the user is ordinary or elevated.
An ordinary user is around five lines maybe, an elevated
user maybe fifteen or sixteen lines of privileges.

Paul

I logged on to the Administrator Account and entered
whoami /user /priv and this is what I got in return:

User name SID
dragon\commander S-1-5-21-800400232- XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (unless you need this number I prefer to keep it private)

Privileges Information

Privilege name Description State

SeShutdownPrivilege shut down the system Disabled
SeChangeNotifyPrivelege bypass trasverse checking Enabled
SeUndockPrivilege Remove computer from docking station Disabled
SeIncreaseWorking SetPrivilege Increase a process working set Disabled
SeTimeZonePrivilage Change the time zone Disabled

Boy I sure wish I could take pics or a screenshots!
It would make things allot easier so you could see
what I see but the 780 doesn't have any ports for the
flash card.

Robert

I sorry it got messed up when I posted. I had everything in
neat columns for you to read. Why does it do that?

Robert