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computers / comp.os.linux.misc / Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

SubjectAuthor
* uefi malware--threat to all?pH
+- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Richard Kettlewell
+* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
|`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?pH
| +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?28B.I874
| +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Bobbie Sellers
| |+- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?28B.I874
| |+* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
| ||`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Bobbie Sellers
| || +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| || `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
| ||  `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Bobbie Sellers
| ||   `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?28B.A864
| ||    `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| ||     `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?TJ
| ||      +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
| ||      |+* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Robert Heller
| ||      ||+* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?29V.X746
| ||      |||`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||      ||| `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| ||      |||  +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Dan Espen
| ||      |||  +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||      |||  |+- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?29V.X746
| ||      |||  |`- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| ||      |||  +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?29V.X746
| ||      |||  `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Robert Riches
| ||      |||   +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?29V.X746
| ||      |||   |+- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||      |||   |+* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Bobbie Sellers
| ||      |||   ||`- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?29V.X746
| ||      |||   |`- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Robert Riches
| ||      |||   `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| ||      |||    `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?29V.X746
| ||      ||+- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| ||      ||`- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?TJ
| ||      |+- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| ||      |`- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?TJ
| ||      +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||      |`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?TJ
| ||      | `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||      +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| ||      `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Roger Blake
| ||       +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?29V.X746
| ||       |+* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Richard Kettlewell
| ||       ||`- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||       |+- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||       |`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?TJ
| ||       | `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Robert Heller
| ||       |  `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?TJ
| ||       |   `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Robert Heller
| ||       |    `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Fritz Wuehler
| ||       |     `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?jeshgrca
| ||       |      `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Fritz Wuehler
| ||       |       `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?27E.G756
| ||       |        `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||       |         +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?27E.G756
| ||       |         |`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||       |         | `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?27E.G756
| ||       |         `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Charlie Gibbs
| ||       |          `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?27E.G756
| ||       +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
| ||       +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?TJ
| ||       |`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||       | `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Charlie Gibbs
| ||       |  `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||       |   `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?27E.G756
| ||       |    `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||       |     `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?27E.G756
| ||       |      `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Computer Nerd Kev
| ||       |       `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?22T.R732
| ||       `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?TJ
| |`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| | +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?David W. Hodgins
| | |`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
| | | `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?David W. Hodgins
| | `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
| |  `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?28B.I874
| |   +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?David W. Hodgins
| |   |`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?28B.I874
| |   | `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?David W. Hodgins
| |   |  `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?28C.I874
| |   +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| |   |`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Richard Kettlewell
| |   | `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| |   |  `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Richard Kettlewell
| |   |   +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Robert Heller
| |   |   +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Rich
| |   |   +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| |   |   `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| |   |    `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| |   |     `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Robert Heller
| |   `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
| `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Andrei Z.
 `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?pH
  +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?David W. Hodgins
  |`- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
  +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
  `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Bobbie Sellers
   `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
    +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
    `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock

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Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

<tv1jhh$1tqag$7@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 11:39:29 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 11:39 UTC

On 16/03/2023 19:18, TJ wrote:
> On 2023-03-16 05:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>    Even better ... NO WINDERS *AT ALL* !  😄
>> Oh that the three programs I use in it were available for Linux at
>> *any* price
>
> Agreed.
>
> Adobe Reader DC, for use with New York State income tax forms. Nothing
> else, I mean NOTHING, even other Windows pdf readers, will do for them.
>
> HP Color Laserjet CP1215 driver. Linux prints best with the foo2hp
> driver, but hp-toolbox can't use it to check for things like toner
> levels unless the inferior(for that particular printer) hplip is used.
Oh. I never had issues with that printer. I think I used hplip. And it
was ok
And you used its onboard web server to motors its stuff

>
> Solunar Table Calculator, so I can know when the fish are likely to bite
> according to the positions of the Sun and Moon.
>
> OK, I wouldn't pay ANY price for that last one, but as long as I need
> Windows for the other two...
>
> TJ
In my case its Corel draw, Corel photo paint, Rhino 3D CAD and a program
called motocalc, which calculates power and weight requirements and
predicts performance for model electric powered aircraft.

Corel Draw is a unique blend of the artistic and the mathematical. as is
Rhino. In both cases you can create freehand or inputting numbers.
There may be free alternatives out there, like Blender, but that has a
huge learning curve

--
The higher up the mountainside
The greener grows the grass.
The higher up the monkey climbs
The more he shows his arse.

Traditional

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

<tv1jua$1tqag$8@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 11:46:18 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 11:46 UTC

On 16/03/2023 20:05, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 16.03.2023 um 15:18:21 Uhr schrieb TJ:
>
>> Adobe Reader DC, for use with New York State income tax forms.
>
> Are you required to use them?
> Is it possible to fill them out manually?
>
>> HP Color Laserjet CP1215 driver. Linux prints best with the foo2hp
>> driver, but hp-toolbox can't use it to check for things like toner
>> levels unless the inferior(for that particular printer) hplip is used.
>
> At least the software is available for GNU/Linux.
>
>> OK, I wouldn't pay ANY price for that last one, but as long as I need
>> Windows for the other two...
>
> I started to reject any task I can only do on windows - I will do that
> on paper if they cannot provide a working solution without Windows.
> Maybe think about it.
>
The upshot is that once you have a crappy old windows XP VM, and legacy
code that runs in it, the three days a year you need it are not worth
the expense of trying to find alternatives

And the VM is a complete sandbox. If you only want to access the host
computers file system you don't even need much networking to be
installed, as I believe that Virtual box supplies a pseudo lan manager
type access to it without TCP IP.

So its all easy to keep secure.

--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

<tv1k0u$1tqag$9@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 11:47:42 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 11:47 UTC

On 16/03/2023 21:06, Robert Heller wrote:
> At Thu, 16 Mar 2023 21:05:42 +0100 Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
>
>>
>> Am 16.03.2023 um 15:18:21 Uhr schrieb TJ:
>>
>>> Adobe Reader DC, for use with New York State income tax forms.
>>
>> Are you required to use them?
>
> Evince works with the IRS's fill in forms.
Does it now.

Never used it for anything - we dot have IR forms here, but occasionally
PDF forms do appear
--
“Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,”

– Ludwig von Mises

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 11:56:06 +0000
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 11:56 UTC

On 17/03/2023 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>
> I have a certain hatred of Adobe.
>

There are two things that ought never to have been invented, at least
the way they are today.

One is PostScript, and the other is X-windows.
Both are designed by academics for theoretical perfection and
completeness and both are utterly inaccessible without a shelf of
manuals and 5 years studying them to actually get working.
Remember the Apple Laserwriter that needed a bigger CPU and more RAM
than the computer that drove it, just to interpret PostScript?
Or X-windows implementations that used up more RAM than most Unix
systems had, in order to run? And was dog slow

Both work not because of, but *despite* their design.

Like Systemd.

Oh and while on THAT subject does anyone know why again on a wifi
equipped Laptop it is still trying to mount NFS files noted in fstab
before the wifi has come up?

--
“Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,”

– Ludwig von Mises

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: TJ@noneofyour.business (TJ)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 12:36:50 -0400
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Content-Language: en-US
 by: TJ - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 16:36 UTC

On 2023-03-16 17:06, Robert Heller wrote:
>> Am 16.03.2023 um 15:18:21 Uhr schrieb TJ:
>>
>>> Adobe Reader DC, for use with New York State income tax forms.
>> Are you required to use them?
> Evince works with the IRS's fill in forms.
>
So do Okular and Atril. But not with the New York State IT-201, the
equivalent to the IRS 1040.

https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/current_forms/it/it201_fill_in_2d.pdf

That one has several features that do calculations, help prevent ID
fraud, and some other stuff. There is a plain paper version that can be
filled out with pen, but someone could use that and a stolen Social
Security number to fraudulently file and collect the user's refund
before the legitimate taxpayer files.

It's also possible to file electronically, in fact it is encouraged, but
I'd rather not. Windows 7 in VirtualBox works just fine with the above
form, using Adobe Reader DC.

TJ

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: TJ@noneofyour.business (TJ)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 12:44:06 -0400
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 by: TJ - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 16:44 UTC

On 2023-03-16 16:05, Marco Moock wrote:
> I started to reject any task I can only do on windows - I will do that
> on paper if they cannot provide a working solution without Windows.
> Maybe think about it.

Did my tax forms manually for years, before I got into Linux, before
Windows, even before personal computers were a thing.

Too much trouble to go back to what I did forty years ago, just for a
dubious principle. Much more sensible at my age to go with the flow than
to try to fight my way upstream.

TJ

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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 by: TJ - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 17:09 UTC

On 2023-03-16 17:14, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>> HP Color Laserjet CP1215 driver. Linux prints best with the foo2hp
>> driver, but hp-toolbox can't use it to check for things like toner
>> levels unless the inferior(for that particular printer) hplip is used.
>
> I have the CP1515n. Works fine.
>
> I see the toner level on the printer own web page.
>
> For driver, I have 3 different drivers. One postscript, one  hpijs pcl3,
> and the other is pcl3, hpcups.
>
> I don't know how to tell cups to list all printer with drivers info.
> Maybe "lpinfo", but can't find the concoction.
>
The 1515 is the more advanced version of the 1215. Looks the same on the
outside, but different firmware. The CP1215 is usb-only, so has no web
page of its own.

In Mageia, system-config-printer will install the foo2hp driver, and in
fact that is the driver recommended at
https://www.openprinting.org/printer/HP/HP-Color_LaserJet_CP1215
It works well enough, for printing, but in the hp-toolbox it always
reports toner levels as full. Not usually a problem, but every once in a
while...

Alternatively, I can install using hp-setup. That will require
downloading a plugin from HP that the other driver doesn't need. I tried
it once, printing a page with a color photo. The colors weren't nearly
as nice as with the foo2hp driver, so I've never looked back.

I probably would not have selected this Laserjet, but the price couldn't
be beat. The place where a nephew was working was upgrading, he knew I
wanted a laser printer, and rescued it before it was sent to the
recycler about four years ago. It came with a complete set of color
toner carts, too. I've replaced the black cart twice, but haven't had a
need to do the color carts yet.

TJ

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: dan1espen@gmail.com (Dan Espen)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 15:00:33 -0400
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 by: Dan Espen - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 19:00 UTC

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

> On 17/03/2023 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> I have a certain hatred of Adobe.
>>
>
> There are two things that ought never to have been invented, at least
> the way they are today.

Gee, I hope you are criticizing something you've proved you can do
better.

> One is PostScript, and the other is X-windows.
> Both are designed by academics for theoretical perfection and
> completeness and both are utterly inaccessible without a shelf of
> manuals and 5 years studying them to actually get working.
> Remember the Apple Laserwriter that needed a bigger CPU and more RAM
> than the computer that drove it, just to interpret PostScript?
> Or X-windows implementations that used up more RAM than most Unix
> systems had, in order to run? And was dog slow

So PostScript and X-WIndows really widely used,
TNP software, not so much...

> Both work not because of, but *despite* their design.

Yes, they work. They actually work quite well.

> Like Systemd.

Idiot alert!

> Oh and while on THAT subject does anyone know why again on a wifi
> equipped Laptop it is still trying to mount NFS files noted in fstab
> before the wifi has come up?

Yes, I think most of us know.

--
Dan Espen

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 22:57:52 +0100
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 21:57 UTC

On 2023-03-17 12:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 17/03/2023 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>>
>> I have a certain hatred of Adobe.
>>
>
> There are two things that ought never to have been invented, at least
> the way they are today.
>
> One is PostScript, and the other is X-windows.
> Both are designed by academics for theoretical perfection and
> completeness and both are utterly inaccessible without a shelf of
> manuals and 5 years studying them to actually get working.
> Remember the Apple Laserwriter that needed a bigger CPU and more RAM
> than the  computer that drove it, just to interpret PostScript?
> Or X-windows implementations that used up more RAM than most Unix
> systems had, in order to run? And was dog slow
>
> Both work not because of, but *despite* their design.
>
> Like Systemd.
>
> Oh and while on THAT subject does anyone know why again on a wifi
> equipped Laptop it is still trying to mount NFS files noted in fstab
> before the wifi has come up?

AFAIK that was solved years ago. Not an issue anymore.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 22:35 UTC

On 2023-03-17 18:09, TJ wrote:
> On 2023-03-16 17:14, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>> HP Color Laserjet CP1215 driver. Linux prints best with the foo2hp
>>> driver, but hp-toolbox can't use it to check for things like toner
>>> levels unless the inferior(for that particular printer) hplip is used.
>>
>> I have the CP1515n. Works fine.
>>
>> I see the toner level on the printer own web page.
>>
>> For driver, I have 3 different drivers. One postscript, one  hpijs
>> pcl3, and the other is pcl3, hpcups.
>>
>> I don't know how to tell cups to list all printer with drivers info.
>> Maybe "lpinfo", but can't find the concoction.
>>
> The 1515 is the more advanced version of the 1215. Looks the same on the
> outside, but different firmware. The CP1215 is usb-only, so has no web
> page of its own.

Ah.

Yes, someone told me long ago "always get the networked version of the
printer". It is more standard and easy to work from Linux.

>
> In Mageia, system-config-printer will install the foo2hp driver, and in
> fact that is the driver recommended at
> https://www.openprinting.org/printer/HP/HP-Color_LaserJet_CP1215
> It works well enough, for printing, but in the hp-toolbox it always
> reports toner levels as full. Not usually a problem, but every once in a
> while...
>
> Alternatively, I can install using hp-setup. That will require
> downloading a plugin from HP that the other driver doesn't need. I tried
> it once, printing a page with a color photo. The colors weren't nearly
> as nice as with the foo2hp driver, so I've never looked back.
>
> I probably would not have selected this Laserjet, but the price couldn't
> be beat. The place where a nephew was working was upgrading, he knew I
> wanted a laser printer, and rescued it before it was sent to the
> recycler about four years ago. It came with a complete set of color
> toner carts, too. I've replaced the black cart twice, but haven't had a
> need to do the color carts yet.

Nice :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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 by: 29V.X746 - Sat, 18 Mar 2023 01:55 UTC

On 3/17/23 7:56 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 17/03/2023 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>>
>> I have a certain hatred of Adobe.
>>
>
> There are two things that ought never to have been invented, at least
> the way they are today.
>
> One is PostScript, and the other is X-windows.
> Both are designed by academics for theoretical perfection and
> completeness and both are utterly inaccessible without a shelf of
> manuals and 5 years studying them to actually get working.
> Remember the Apple Laserwriter that needed a bigger CPU and more RAM
> than the  computer that drove it, just to interpret PostScript?
> Or X-windows implementations that used up more RAM than most Unix
> systems had, in order to run? And was dog slow
>
> Both work not because of, but *despite* their design.
>
> Like Systemd.
>
> Oh and while on THAT subject does anyone know why again on a wifi
> equipped Laptop it is still trying to mount NFS files noted in fstab
> before the wifi has come up?

Yea ... sometimes there's too much egg-headding ....
keeps the academics happy, think they're doing
something important kinda like the pointy-haired
bosses in their endless meetings about what other
meetings they should have and come out feeling
they've accomplished important things.

OTOH, some of the early attempts at windowing systems
were un-scalable hacks only good for one exact task
in whatever exact system.

Both are no good.

Unix itself was a semi-academic exercise ... somebody
put some thought into it, envisioned something that
could be usable at any scale. Same goes for some of
those old mainframe/mini OS's. Just writing one-off
assembler pgms, kinda like you'd do with an Arduino,
did yield superior performance, but more "abstraction"
yields the better, more lasting, more portable, more
powerful "experience".

And I still pick X over Wayland because, messy as it
is, there's a LOT more documentation and how-to's.
It's also more compatible with more drivers across
more archetectures ...

Now if you want the real BAD about Linux/Unix, I've been
experiencing it over the past few days trying to get a
certain set of utilities running on the bleeding-edge
versions of Deb and Buntu. The software base hasn't
caught up yet. Had to go to BookWorm beta to get one
thing to work, had to go to 22.04+ buntus to get another
thing to work - but neither will run ALL the stuff
properly because of the damned VERSIONS PROBLEM.
"Sorry, this requires libXYZ > 58.04 and you have
59.01" and you can't put 58.x back in there because
it trashes 500 other things and has a gigantic tree
of dependencies with giant trees of more dependencies.

Monday I'm probably going back to 20.04 or Buster where
EVERYTHING worked. Winders will run OLD OLD programs
just fine. They did SOMETHING right that has escaped
the -IX "recompile everything from scratch when you
install" world entirely.

And that's MY peeve of the day.

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
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From: 29V.X746@noqb1u.net (29V.X746)
Organization: walnut hyperbolic
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 22:03:23 -0400
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 by: 29V.X746 - Sat, 18 Mar 2023 02:03 UTC

On 3/17/23 5:57 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-03-17 12:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 17/03/2023 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have a certain hatred of Adobe.
>>>
>>
>> There are two things that ought never to have been invented, at least
>> the way they are today.
>>
>> One is PostScript, and the other is X-windows.
>> Both are designed by academics for theoretical perfection and
>> completeness and both are utterly inaccessible without a shelf of
>> manuals and 5 years studying them to actually get working.
>> Remember the Apple Laserwriter that needed a bigger CPU and more RAM
>> than the  computer that drove it, just to interpret PostScript?
>> Or X-windows implementations that used up more RAM than most Unix
>> systems had, in order to run? And was dog slow
>>
>> Both work not because of, but *despite* their design.
>>
>> Like Systemd.
>>
>> Oh and while on THAT subject does anyone know why again on a wifi
>> equipped Laptop it is still trying to mount NFS files noted in fstab
>> before the wifi has come up?
>
> AFAIK that was solved years ago. Not an issue anymore.

There are 'delayed startup' options ... and work
pretty well. When they don't you may have to make
"@reboot sleep 30 && mount -a &" style things in
the crontab.

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:55:05 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:55 UTC

On 17/03/2023 21:57, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-03-17 12:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 17/03/2023 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have a certain hatred of Adobe.
>>>
>>
>> There are two things that ought never to have been invented, at least
>> the way they are today.
>>
>> One is PostScript, and the other is X-windows.
>> Both are designed by academics for theoretical perfection and
>> completeness and both are utterly inaccessible without a shelf of
>> manuals and 5 years studying them to actually get working.
>> Remember the Apple Laserwriter that needed a bigger CPU and more RAM
>> than the  computer that drove it, just to interpret PostScript?
>> Or X-windows implementations that used up more RAM than most Unix
>> systems had, in order to run? And was dog slow
>>
>> Both work not because of, but *despite* their design.
>>
>> Like Systemd.
>>
>> Oh and while on THAT subject does anyone know why again on a wifi
>> equipped Laptop it is still trying to mount NFS files noted in fstab
>> before the wifi has come up?
>
> AFAIK that was solved years ago. Not an issue anymore.
>
Well it is.

The latest version of mint, fresh install, is back to the old behaviour

--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: spamtrap42@jacob21819.net (Robert Riches)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: 19 Mar 2023 04:13:19 GMT
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 by: Robert Riches - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 04:13 UTC

On 2023-03-17, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 17/03/2023 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>>
>> I have a certain hatred of Adobe.
>>
>
> There are two things that ought never to have been invented, at least
> the way they are today.
>
> One is PostScript, and the other is X-windows.
> Both are designed by academics for theoretical perfection and
> completeness and both are utterly inaccessible without a shelf of
> manuals and 5 years studying them to actually get working.
> Remember the Apple Laserwriter that needed a bigger CPU and more RAM
> than the computer that drove it, just to interpret PostScript?
> Or X-windows implementations that used up more RAM than most Unix
> systems had, in order to run? And was dog slow
>
> Both work not because of, but *despite* their design.
>
> ...

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about PostScript, but the
X window system that I used in the latter 1980s on a Sun 386i
workstation running SunOS version approximately 4.01 or so with
around 8-12MB (yes, MEGAbytes) of RAM seemed fast enough and
memory was not a significant issue. It was responsive enough
that a group of us held a regular 5:01pm multiplayer game of
xtrek.

On the other hand, the system did have a problem when a person on
an office moving crew slammed the blade of a hand-truck under the
cubicle partition (from a hallway), striking the (~$13k)
workstation with enough of a shock that the HDD started making a
moaning sound until I quickly powered it down. The HDD
completely died about a week later.

--
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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From: 29V.X746@noqb1u.net (29V.X746)
Organization: walnut hyperbolic
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 by: 29V.X746 - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 06:38 UTC

On 3/19/23 12:13 AM, Robert Riches wrote:
> On 2023-03-17, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 17/03/2023 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have a certain hatred of Adobe.
>>>
>>
>> There are two things that ought never to have been invented, at least
>> the way they are today.
>>
>> One is PostScript, and the other is X-windows.
>> Both are designed by academics for theoretical perfection and
>> completeness and both are utterly inaccessible without a shelf of
>> manuals and 5 years studying them to actually get working.
>> Remember the Apple Laserwriter that needed a bigger CPU and more RAM
>> than the computer that drove it, just to interpret PostScript?
>> Or X-windows implementations that used up more RAM than most Unix
>> systems had, in order to run? And was dog slow
>>
>> Both work not because of, but *despite* their design.
>>
>> ...
>
> I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about PostScript, but the
> X window system that I used in the latter 1980s on a Sun 386i
> workstation running SunOS version approximately 4.01 or so with
> around 8-12MB (yes, MEGAbytes) of RAM seemed fast enough and
> memory was not a significant issue. It was responsive enough
> that a group of us held a regular 5:01pm multiplayer game of
> xtrek.

I'm gonna agree - it's not THAT horrible and HAS
improved over the years.

And it IS very well documented, including lots of
How-To's.

Wayland MAY demonstrate advantages - but it's still
relatively "new" and does not support as much
hardware and does not have the volume of docs and
How-To's.

Mr. Natural DOES have a point though about things
that are "over-eggheaded" however. "Conceptually
perfect" does NOT mean "real-world perfect".
Somewhere there's a balance - but it gets lost
in the debates.

> On the other hand, the system did have a problem when a person on
> an office moving crew slammed the blade of a hand-truck under the
> cubicle partition (from a hallway), striking the (~$13k)
> workstation with enough of a shock that the HDD started making a
> moaning sound until I quickly powered it down. The HDD
> completely died about a week later.

Shhhh !!! The real world NEVER counts ! :-)

Oh, and WHAT did you need a $13k workstation/server for ???
Whatever it is you can surely do it for a LOT less. Sounds
like something the pointy-haired bosses wanted because they
heard about it in Idiot Managers Weekly or something ......

(note - that kind of shit is why I'm gonna retire sooner
than later ...)

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 11:40:13 +0100
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 10:40 UTC

On 2023-03-19 07:38, 29V.X746 wrote:
> On 3/19/23 12:13 AM, Robert Riches wrote:
>> On 2023-03-17, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 17/03/2023 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a certain hatred of Adobe.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are two things that ought never to have been invented, at least
>>> the way they are today.
>>>
>>> One is PostScript, and the other is X-windows.
>>> Both are designed by academics for theoretical perfection and
>>> completeness and both are utterly inaccessible without a shelf of
>>> manuals and 5 years studying them to actually get working.
>>> Remember the Apple Laserwriter that needed a bigger CPU and more RAM
>>> than the  computer that drove it, just to interpret PostScript?
>>> Or X-windows implementations that used up more RAM than most Unix
>>> systems had, in order to run? And was dog slow
>>>
>>> Both work not because of, but *despite* their design.
>>>
>>> ...
>>
>> I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about PostScript, but the
>> X window system that I used in the latter 1980s on a Sun 386i
>> workstation running SunOS version approximately 4.01 or so with
>> around 8-12MB (yes, MEGAbytes) of RAM seemed fast enough and
>> memory was not a significant issue.  It was responsive enough
>> that a group of us held a regular 5:01pm multiplayer game of
>> xtrek.
>
>
>   I'm gonna agree - it's not THAT horrible and HAS
>   improved over the years.
>
>   And it IS very well documented, including lots of
>   How-To's.

postscript does work.

The only problem is that some pages demands a lot of memory and the
printer bails out; and that printer memory is (was?) more expensive than
computer memory (can't it use a local disk or flash memory, and swap to it)?

Yes, the printer needs a processor. On the other hand, the computer
needs less work.

The thing is, Linux did not need to create a printing engine.
Application devs were told to just output postscript and send it to the
printer. Problem solved, instantly.

Windows does (did?) it differently (unless it changed since I looked at
it long ago). The application creates a GDI, one for the display,
another for the printer, and generates on it the output in the same
manner for one as the other.

+++·····················
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_Device_Interface>

GDI printers

A GDI printer or Winprinter (analogous to a Winmodem) is a printer
designed to accept output from a host computer running Windows. The host
computer does all print processing: GDI renders a page as a bitmap,
which the printer driver receives, processes, and sends to the
associated printer.[10][11] The combination of GDI and the driver is
bidirectional; they receive information from the printer such as whether
it is ready to print or is out of paper.

Printers that do not rely on GDI require hardware, firmware, and memory
for page rendering while a GDI printer uses the host computer for this.
However, a printer with its own control language can accept input from
any device with a suitable driver, while a GDI printer requires a PC
running Windows. GDI printers can be made available to computers on a
network if they are connected as shared printers on a computer which is
on and running Windows. Some "generic" GDI drivers such as pnm2ppa have
been written; they aim to make GDI printers compatible with non-Windows
operating systems such as FreeBSD, but they cannot support all printers.[10]

In order to allow simpler creation of drivers for Winprinters, the
Microsoft Universal Printer Driver was created. This allows printer
vendors to write Generic Printer Description (GPD) "minidrivers", which
describe the printer's capabilities and command set in plaintext, rather
than having to do kernel mode driver development.

Microsoft has moved away from this printing model with Open XML Paper
Specification.
·····················++-

>
>   Wayland MAY demonstrate advantages - but it's still
>   relatively "new" and does not support as much
>   hardware and does not have the volume of docs and
>   How-To's.

I think, not sure, no personal experience, is that you can not run
applications remotely as with X over an ssh connection.

>
>   Mr. Natural DOES have a point though about things
>   that are "over-eggheaded" however. "Conceptually
>   perfect" does NOT mean "real-world perfect".
>   Somewhere there's a balance - but it gets lost
>   in the debates.
>
>
>> On the other hand, the system did have a problem when a person on
>> an office moving crew slammed the blade of a hand-truck under the
>> cubicle partition (from a hallway), striking the (~$13k)
>> workstation with enough of a shock that the HDD started making a
>> moaning sound until I quickly powered it down.  The HDD
>> completely died about a week later.
>
>   Shhhh !!! The real world NEVER counts !  :-)
>
>   Oh, and WHAT did you need a $13k workstation/server for ???
>   Whatever it is you can surely do it for a LOT less. Sounds
>   like something the pointy-haired bosses wanted because they
>   heard about it in Idiot Managers Weekly or something ......
>
>   (note - that kind of shit is why I'm gonna retire sooner
>   than later ...)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: bliss@mouse-potato.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 13:12:27 -0700
Organization: dis-organization
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 by: Bobbie Sellers - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 20:12 UTC

On 3/18/23 23:38, 29V.X746 wrote:
> On 3/19/23 12:13 AM, Robert Riches wrote:
>> On 2023-03-17, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 17/03/2023 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a certain hatred of Adobe.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are two things that ought never to have been invented, at least
>>> the way they are today.
>>>
>>> One is PostScript, and the other is X-windows.
>>> Both are designed by academics for theoretical perfection and
>>> completeness and both are utterly inaccessible without a shelf of
>>> manuals and 5 years studying them to actually get working.
>>> Remember the Apple Laserwriter that needed a bigger CPU and more RAM
>>> than the  computer that drove it, just to interpret PostScript?
>>> Or X-windows implementations that used up more RAM than most Unix
>>> systems had, in order to run? And was dog slow
>>>
>>> Both work not because of, but *despite* their design.
>>>
>>> ...
>>
>> I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about PostScript, but the
>> X window system that I used in the latter 1980s on a Sun 386i
>> workstation running SunOS version approximately 4.01 or so with
>> around 8-12MB (yes, MEGAbytes) of RAM seemed fast enough and
>> memory was not a significant issue.  It was responsive enough
>> that a group of us held a regular 5:01pm multiplayer game of
>> xtrek.
>
>
>   I'm gonna agree - it's not THAT horrible and HAS
>   improved over the years.
>
>   And it IS very well documented, including lots of
>   How-To's.
>
>   Wayland MAY demonstrate advantages - but it's still
>   relatively "new" and does not support as much
>   hardware and does not have the volume of docs and
>   How-To's.
>
>   Mr. Natural DOES have a point though about things
>   that are "over-eggheaded" however. "Conceptually
>   perfect" does NOT mean "real-world perfect".
>   Somewhere there's a balance - but it gets lost
>   in the debates.
>
>
>> On the other hand, the system did have a problem when a person on
>> an office moving crew slammed the blade of a hand-truck under the
>> cubicle partition (from a hallway), striking the (~$13k)
>> workstation with enough of a shock that the HDD started making a
>> moaning sound until I quickly powered it down.  The HDD
>> completely died about a week later.
>
>   Shhhh !!! The real world NEVER counts !  :-)
>
>   Oh, and WHAT did you need a $13k workstation/server for ???
>   Whatever it is you can surely do it for a LOT less. Sounds
>   like something the pointy-haired bosses wanted because they
>   heard about it in Idiot Managers Weekly or something ......
>
>   (note - that kind of shit is why I'm gonna retire sooner
>   than later ...)
r Prices were much higher a few short years back. A $13,000 dollar
workstation may have been a bargain. My first 100 Megabyte
3.5 inch SCSI hard disk was around $350.00. My 500 Gigabyte 2.5inch
SDD SATA ran about $60.

bliss - times change and the value of currency fluctuates.

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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From: 29V.X746@noqb1u.net (29V.X746)
Organization: walnut hyperbolic
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 01:05:25 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
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 by: 29V.X746 - Mon, 20 Mar 2023 05:05 UTC

On 3/19/23 4:12 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> On 3/18/23 23:38, 29V.X746 wrote:
>> On 3/19/23 12:13 AM, Robert Riches wrote:
>>> On 2023-03-17, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 17/03/2023 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a certain hatred of Adobe.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are two things that ought never to have been invented, at least
>>>> the way they are today.
>>>>
>>>> One is PostScript, and the other is X-windows.
>>>> Both are designed by academics for theoretical perfection and
>>>> completeness and both are utterly inaccessible without a shelf of
>>>> manuals and 5 years studying them to actually get working.
>>>> Remember the Apple Laserwriter that needed a bigger CPU and more RAM
>>>> than the  computer that drove it, just to interpret PostScript?
>>>> Or X-windows implementations that used up more RAM than most Unix
>>>> systems had, in order to run? And was dog slow
>>>>
>>>> Both work not because of, but *despite* their design.
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about PostScript, but the
>>> X window system that I used in the latter 1980s on a Sun 386i
>>> workstation running SunOS version approximately 4.01 or so with
>>> around 8-12MB (yes, MEGAbytes) of RAM seemed fast enough and
>>> memory was not a significant issue.  It was responsive enough
>>> that a group of us held a regular 5:01pm multiplayer game of
>>> xtrek.
>>
>>
>>    I'm gonna agree - it's not THAT horrible and HAS
>>    improved over the years.
>>
>>    And it IS very well documented, including lots of
>>    How-To's.
>>
>>    Wayland MAY demonstrate advantages - but it's still
>>    relatively "new" and does not support as much
>>    hardware and does not have the volume of docs and
>>    How-To's.
>>
>>    Mr. Natural DOES have a point though about things
>>    that are "over-eggheaded" however. "Conceptually
>>    perfect" does NOT mean "real-world perfect".
>>    Somewhere there's a balance - but it gets lost
>>    in the debates.
>>
>>
>>> On the other hand, the system did have a problem when a person on
>>> an office moving crew slammed the blade of a hand-truck under the
>>> cubicle partition (from a hallway), striking the (~$13k)
>>> workstation with enough of a shock that the HDD started making a
>>> moaning sound until I quickly powered it down.  The HDD
>>> completely died about a week later.
>>
>>    Shhhh !!! The real world NEVER counts !  :-)
>>
>>    Oh, and WHAT did you need a $13k workstation/server for ???
>>    Whatever it is you can surely do it for a LOT less. Sounds
>>    like something the pointy-haired bosses wanted because they
>>    heard about it in Idiot Managers Weekly or something ......
>>
>>    (note - that kind of shit is why I'm gonna retire sooner
>>    than later ...)
> r
>     Prices were much higher a few short years back.  A $13,000 dollar
> workstation may have been a bargain.  My first 100 Megabyte
> 3.5 inch SCSI hard disk was around $350.00.  My 500 Gigabyte 2.5inch
> SDD SATA ran about $60.
>
>     bliss - times change and the value of currency fluctuates.
>

My first hard drive was 10mb - for about $4000 ... :-)

Rodime - 5-1/4 "full height" - it was HEAVY and a
real bitch to tweak the drivers for DOS. But, at
the time ... wow ... you could fit SO many 123
spreadsheets on it !!!

A "state of the art" Xeon server is STILL over
five figures actually - of course the PERFORMANCE
is 20+ times more than the same thing a decade ago.
What are they up to now, 60 cores, 4 or 6 chip
boards ???

(but your SOFTWARE has to be writ to distribute
the workload across all those cores properly :-)

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 20:27:38 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Mon, 20 Mar 2023 20:27 UTC

On 19/03/2023 04:13, Robert Riches wrote:
> On 2023-03-17, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 17/03/2023 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have a certain hatred of Adobe.
>>>
>>
>> There are two things that ought never to have been invented, at least
>> the way they are today.
>>
>> One is PostScript, and the other is X-windows.
>> Both are designed by academics for theoretical perfection and
>> completeness and both are utterly inaccessible without a shelf of
>> manuals and 5 years studying them to actually get working.
>> Remember the Apple Laserwriter that needed a bigger CPU and more RAM
>> than the computer that drove it, just to interpret PostScript?
>> Or X-windows implementations that used up more RAM than most Unix
>> systems had, in order to run? And was dog slow
>>
>> Both work not because of, but *despite* their design.
>>
>> ...
>
> I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about PostScript, but the
> X window system that I used in the latter 1980s on a Sun 386i
> workstation running SunOS version approximately 4.01 or so with
> around 8-12MB (yes, MEGAbytes) of RAM seemed fast enough and
> memory was not a significant issue. It was responsive enough
> that a group of us held a regular 5:01pm multiplayer game of
> xtrek.
>
Whne I first tried out X windows it took more RAM than the entire
machine we bought to run Unix, had on it.
SCO Unix would run 50 desktops over a tty, on 4MB.
Or you MIGHT just get one dire swappy X window session on it.

But windows ran OK on that much RAM

> On the other hand, the system did have a problem when a person on
> an office moving crew slammed the blade of a hand-truck under the
> cubicle partition (from a hallway), striking the (~$13k)
> workstation with enough of a shock that the HDD started making a
> moaning sound until I quickly powered it down. The HDD
> completely died about a week later.
>

They do that.

--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2023 01:49:06 +0000
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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From: 29V.X746@noqb1u.net (29V.X746)
Organization: walnut hyperbolic
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 21:48:36 -0400
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 by: 29V.X746 - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 01:48 UTC

On 3/20/23 4:27 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 19/03/2023 04:13, Robert Riches wrote:
>> On 2023-03-17, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 17/03/2023 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a certain hatred of Adobe.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are two things that ought never to have been invented, at least
>>> the way they are today.
>>>
>>> One is PostScript, and the other is X-windows.
>>> Both are designed by academics for theoretical perfection and
>>> completeness and both are utterly inaccessible without a shelf of
>>> manuals and 5 years studying them to actually get working.
>>> Remember the Apple Laserwriter that needed a bigger CPU and more RAM
>>> than the  computer that drove it, just to interpret PostScript?
>>> Or X-windows implementations that used up more RAM than most Unix
>>> systems had, in order to run? And was dog slow
>>>
>>> Both work not because of, but *despite* their design.
>>>
>>> ...
>>
>> I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about PostScript, but the
>> X window system that I used in the latter 1980s on a Sun 386i
>> workstation running SunOS version approximately 4.01 or so with
>> around 8-12MB (yes, MEGAbytes) of RAM seemed fast enough and
>> memory was not a significant issue.  It was responsive enough
>> that a group of us held a regular 5:01pm multiplayer game of
>> xtrek.
>>
> Whne I first tried out X windows it took more RAM than the entire
> machine we bought to run Unix, had on it.
> SCO Unix would run 50 desktops over a tty, on 4MB.
> Or you MIGHT just get one dire swappy X window session on it.
>
> But windows ran OK on that much RAM

Thru W98se Winders ran in a TINY amount of RAM - 1mb
was enough, 2mb was a tad snappier.

Even W2k didn't need a huge amount of RAM.

But after that ....... *BLOAT* .........

And DOS - it always kinda respected the old 64kb
limit common in so many CP/M-80 boxed. The whole
system was OK with under 32kb, I think even DOS-5
would run, if a bit unhappily, in 16kb.

No Linux/Unix beats that. Tiny or Slitaz, minus
any GUI, as I remember they still want 128kb
minimum and they don't DO much more than DOS-5
plus a network driver could do.

So, for "embedded" work, DOS or one of its clones
may still be a viable, desirable, OS. Does most
of the important stuff but hardly uses any RAM
or EEPROM.

>> On the other hand, the system did have a problem when a person on
>> an office moving crew slammed the blade of a hand-truck under the
>> cubicle partition (from a hallway), striking the (~$13k)
>> workstation with enough of a shock that the HDD started making a
>> moaning sound until I quickly powered it down.  The HDD
>> completely died about a week later.
>>
>
> They do that.

I'm sure that somewhere in the manual it says "Do not
insert a fork-lift blade into the drive" ...

Sounds like the impact physically warped the
drive body JUST a speck ...

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: rogblake@iname.invalid (Roger Blake)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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 by: Roger Blake - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 02:03 UTC

On 2023-03-16, TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> wrote:
> Adobe Reader DC, for use with New York State income tax forms. Nothing
> else, I mean NOTHING, even other Windows pdf readers, will do for them.

Will an earlier version of the Adobe reader work? Adobe Reader 9 will
run natively on Linux. (I have it installed on Mint 21.)

--
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Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: spamtrap42@jacob21819.net (Robert Riches)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: 21 Mar 2023 03:09:59 GMT
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 by: Robert Riches - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 03:09 UTC

On 2023-03-19, 29V.X746 <29V.X746@noqb1u.net> wrote:
> On 3/19/23 12:13 AM, Robert Riches wrote:
>> On 2023-03-17, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 17/03/2023 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a certain hatred of Adobe.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are two things that ought never to have been invented, at least
>>> the way they are today.
>>>
>>> One is PostScript, and the other is X-windows.
>>> Both are designed by academics for theoretical perfection and
>>> completeness and both are utterly inaccessible without a shelf of
>>> manuals and 5 years studying them to actually get working.
>>> Remember the Apple Laserwriter that needed a bigger CPU and more RAM
>>> than the computer that drove it, just to interpret PostScript?
>>> Or X-windows implementations that used up more RAM than most Unix
>>> systems had, in order to run? And was dog slow
>>>
>>> Both work not because of, but *despite* their design.
>>>
>>> ...
>>
>> I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about PostScript, but the
>> X window system that I used in the latter 1980s on a Sun 386i
>> workstation running SunOS version approximately 4.01 or so with
>> around 8-12MB (yes, MEGAbytes) of RAM seemed fast enough and
>> memory was not a significant issue. It was responsive enough
>> that a group of us held a regular 5:01pm multiplayer game of
>> xtrek.
>
>
> I'm gonna agree - it's not THAT horrible and HAS
> improved over the years.
>
> And it IS very well documented, including lots of
> How-To's.
>
> Wayland MAY demonstrate advantages - but it's still
> relatively "new" and does not support as much
> hardware and does not have the volume of docs and
> How-To's.

I don't know the original source, but it's been said that those
who don't understand Unix (or something similar) will be
condemned to re-implement it--poorly. That appears to be the
case with Wayland. IIUC, it's brain-dead in that it follows the
Doze convention that keyboard focus can only transfer by
clicking, not by just moving the mouse--and (worse) a window that
is not the top-most cannot have focus.

There are plenty of cases where it is very important to have
keyboard focus on a window that is not the top-most. The prime
example is I need to see all of one window that occupies the
upper 80% of the screen while typing into the lower edge of a
window that occupies the lower 80% of the screen. With X, it's a
breeze to arrange windows to allow typing into a non-top-most
window. With brain-dead Doze (and IIUC, Wayland), it's entirely
impossible.

(If someone knows that Wayland can keyboard focus on a
non-top-most window and can have focus follow the mouse cursor,
that would be a big relief--being as it appears Wayland will
eventually drive X into the dust bin.)

> Mr. Natural DOES have a point though about things
> that are "over-eggheaded" however. "Conceptually
> perfect" does NOT mean "real-world perfect".
> Somewhere there's a balance - but it gets lost
> in the debates.
>
>
>> On the other hand, the system did have a problem when a person on
>> an office moving crew slammed the blade of a hand-truck under the
>> cubicle partition (from a hallway), striking the (~$13k)
>> workstation with enough of a shock that the HDD started making a
>> moaning sound until I quickly powered it down. The HDD
>> completely died about a week later.
>
> Shhhh !!! The real world NEVER counts ! :-)
>
> Oh, and WHAT did you need a $13k workstation/server for ???
> Whatever it is you can surely do it for a LOT less. Sounds
> like something the pointy-haired bosses wanted because they
> heard about it in Idiot Managers Weekly or something ......
>
> (note - that kind of shit is why I'm gonna retire sooner
> than later ...)

I was on a design team of a large microprocessor that literrally
pushed the limits of die size. (IIUC, that microprocessor still
flies in the avionics package of the F-22.) Each design engineer
had a workstation for schematic entry, logic simulation, and so
forth. At the time of the hand-truck incident, my workstation
was also the build machine for the group-wide RTL model. The
$13k workstation was a bargain relative to what Sparc machines
cost at the time.

--
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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 by: 29V.X746 - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 05:13 UTC

On 3/20/23 10:03 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
> On 2023-03-16, TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> wrote:
>> Adobe Reader DC, for use with New York State income tax forms. Nothing
>> else, I mean NOTHING, even other Windows pdf readers, will do for them.
>
> Will an earlier version of the Adobe reader work? Adobe Reader 9 will
> run natively on Linux. (I have it installed on Mint 21.)

"Reader" really isn't for EDITING though ... just for "looking".

If you have a clever lawyer, a profitable case MIGHT be made
over the Govt requiring an expensive proprietary bit of software
to complete it's vital forms ........

It'd be worth just FILING a suit ... it'd make the State nuts
and really LOOK like bribe-related collusion and class-favoritism
(po' folks can't AFFORD Adobe-DC).

Editable WEB-BASED forms are more "equitable" - but require
the State people to DO something .........

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: mo01@posteo.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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 by: Marco Moock - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 07:27 UTC

Am 07.03.2023 um 16:32:18 Uhr schrieb David W. Hodgins:

> For some systems, the uefi firmware will still boot windows ignoring
> the linux boot loader. For those, in windows it will be necessary to
> use bcedit to alter the boot selection order. See
> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_in_dual_boot_with_Windows8_and_over#Windows_starts_directly

This is just the UEFI boot order.
Normally, the Linux installer sets the order with efibootmgr.
Maybe it is needed to do that manually, either in Windows, (live) Linux
or in the UEFI settings.

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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 by: Marco Moock - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 07:28 UTC

Am 21.03.2023 um 02:03:30 Uhr schrieb Roger Blake:

> On 2023-03-16, TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> wrote:
> > Adobe Reader DC, for use with New York State income tax forms.
> > Nothing else, I mean NOTHING, even other Windows pdf readers, will
> > do for them.
>
> Will an earlier version of the Adobe reader work? Adobe Reader 9 will
> run natively on Linux. (I have it installed on Mint 21.)

Does it still work?
No dependency/library problems?

Filling should be possible, but IIRC older versions don't support all
features from new Acrobat versions.

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