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computers / comp.os.linux.misc / Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

SubjectAuthor
* uefi malware--threat to all?pH
+- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Richard Kettlewell
+* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
|`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?pH
| +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?28B.I874
| +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Bobbie Sellers
| |+- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?28B.I874
| |+* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
| ||`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Bobbie Sellers
| || +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| || `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
| ||  `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Bobbie Sellers
| ||   `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?28B.A864
| ||    `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| ||     `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?TJ
| ||      +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
| ||      |+* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Robert Heller
| ||      ||+* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?29V.X746
| ||      |||`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||      ||| `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| ||      |||  +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Dan Espen
| ||      |||  +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||      |||  |+- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?29V.X746
| ||      |||  |`- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| ||      |||  +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?29V.X746
| ||      |||  `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Robert Riches
| ||      |||   +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?29V.X746
| ||      |||   |+- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||      |||   |+* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Bobbie Sellers
| ||      |||   ||`- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?29V.X746
| ||      |||   |`- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Robert Riches
| ||      |||   `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| ||      |||    `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?29V.X746
| ||      ||+- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| ||      ||`- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?TJ
| ||      |+- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| ||      |`- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?TJ
| ||      +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||      |`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?TJ
| ||      | `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||      +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| ||      `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Roger Blake
| ||       +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?29V.X746
| ||       |+* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Richard Kettlewell
| ||       ||`- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||       |+- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||       |`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?TJ
| ||       | `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Robert Heller
| ||       |  `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?TJ
| ||       |   `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Robert Heller
| ||       |    `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Fritz Wuehler
| ||       |     `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?jeshgrca
| ||       |      `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Fritz Wuehler
| ||       |       `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?27E.G756
| ||       |        `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||       |         +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?27E.G756
| ||       |         |`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||       |         | `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?27E.G756
| ||       |         `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Charlie Gibbs
| ||       |          `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?27E.G756
| ||       +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
| ||       +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?TJ
| ||       |`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||       | `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Charlie Gibbs
| ||       |  `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||       |   `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?27E.G756
| ||       |    `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| ||       |     `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?27E.G756
| ||       |      `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Computer Nerd Kev
| ||       |       `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?22T.R732
| ||       `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?TJ
| |`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| | +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?David W. Hodgins
| | |`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
| | | `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?David W. Hodgins
| | `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
| |  `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?28B.I874
| |   +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?David W. Hodgins
| |   |`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?28B.I874
| |   | `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?David W. Hodgins
| |   |  `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?28C.I874
| |   +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| |   |`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Richard Kettlewell
| |   | `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| |   |  `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Richard Kettlewell
| |   |   +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Robert Heller
| |   |   +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Rich
| |   |   +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| |   |   `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
| |   |    `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
| |   |     `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Robert Heller
| |   `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
| `- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
`* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Andrei Z.
 `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?pH
  +* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?David W. Hodgins
  |`- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock
  +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
  `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Bobbie Sellers
   `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Carlos E.R.
    +- Re: uefi malware--threat to all?The Natural Philosopher
    `* Re: uefi malware--threat to all?Marco Moock

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Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
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From: 28B.I874@noabzba.net (28B.I874)
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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2023 01:29:58 -0500
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 by: 28B.I874 - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 06:29 UTC

On 3/7/23 10:35 PM, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Mar 2023 21:39:38 -0500, 28B.I874 <28B.I874@noabzba.net> wrote:
>>     Note that if it's difficult ENOUGH then Linux/UNIX gets
>>     relegated to a crusty few - of no interest to anyone
>>     else, not used by anyone else either. It becomes a
>>     "hobby" OS only, no relevance in the world. Development
>>     pretty much ends. This is the M$/Apple DREAM - total
>>     uncontested world dominance, all profits for THEM only.
>
> Community based linux distributions don't need to satisfy anyone that
> doesn't
> contribute in one way or another to it's creation and maintenance, and the
> friends and/or family members they want it for. By contribute, I'm
> including
> both those who donate their time, and those who donate money to pay for the
> infrastructure. While those distributions do welcome additional users,
> they don't
> need them for the distribution to survive.

You don't seem to get it ... severe Linux lock-outs by
MB makers means NO LINUX/BSD for any and all effective
purposes.

These systems may be "free" but they are NOT intended to
be "hobby" systems, they are meant to DO WORK, people
volunteer to put in LOTS of effort. If that is removed then
nobody but nobody will bother to contribute anymore.
Why waste the effort ? It'd be like spending lots of
time writing CP/M apps .......

> Market share doesn't matter for the non-commercial distributions.

Yes, it does - indirectly. Contributors DO like to think
their efforts are being USEFUL in the larger sense. If
that ceases their INTEREST ceases as well. It's a
psychological thing.

> For the
> commercial distributions they only need enough companies or people
> willing to
> pay for their support services to keep their shareholders satisfied and the
> bills/staff paid. Anything beyond that is just extra money for the
> shareholders,
> or employees who's pay depends on revenue.

"Commercial" is less of a thing - for the elite few.

Now that IBM has absorbed RHEL, well, RHEL will likely
survive ... but increasingly for JUST the wealthy corps
running Big Iron.

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2023 07:57:56 +0000
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 07:57 UTC

On 08/03/2023 02:39, 28B.I874 wrote:
> On 3/7/23 1:09 PM, Marco Moock wrote:
>> Am 07.03.2023 um 09:07:59 Uhr schrieb Carlos E.R.:
>>
>>> I only heard some histories, long ago, of some vendors, not
>>> Microsoft, selling machines with incorrect firmware that would not
>>> allow different installs.
>>>
>>> Same as there are (were?) motherboards that are designed incompatible
>>> with Linux.
>>
>> Acer and Medion were candidates where GNU/Linux installation with
>> LILO/GRUB was difficult, but still possible.
>
>    Note that if it's difficult ENOUGH then Linux/UNIX gets
>    relegated to a crusty few - of no interest to anyone
>    else, not used by anyone else either. It becomes a
>    "hobby" OS only, no relevance in the world. Development
>    pretty much ends. This is the M$/Apple DREAM - total
>    uncontested world dominance, all profits for THEM only.
>
>    Then they'll boost the OS cost to a few kilobucks up
>    front, and you can't even buy it, just "lease" it.
>    Every update, every hour, more $$$ too. Pay-per-View,
>    kinda back to the old terminals/server model. TELL
>    me the giant push for Online-Only primary apps isn't
>    exactly that.
>
>    M$ owns enough Apple stock, and vice-versa, so it barely
>    even matters which you buy, they both make money.
>
>    Yea, yea, IBM will have it's own Linux/UNIX-ish OS for
>    their big hardware - but YOU ain't gonna be buying those
>    mainframes.

I think the issue is that really the niche that Linux occupies is
dwindling as is Windows and MacOSX.

The era of the desktop/laptop is ending.

Instead consumers have slabs or phones with integrated operating systems
and professional content creators and designers will use large workstations.
No one cares about the OS any more, expet us. They care about the
applications, and they will run on anything they are designed to .IBM
reached this point years ago,The tin and the operating system are not
the value, The business application, is.

There is a 3D CAD program I would like to own. It costs three times as
much as this computer...and runs on windows

--
“But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!”

Mary Wollstonecraft

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: invalid@invalid.invalid (Richard Kettlewell)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2023 08:59:25 +0000
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 by: Richard Kettlewell - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 08:59 UTC

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
> I think the issue is that really the niche that Linux occupies is
> dwindling as is Windows and MacOSX.
>
> The era of the desktop/laptop is ending.

Servers aren’t going away and Linux is huge in that market (which is one
reason why the theories about Linux being locked out of motherboards by
secure boot are nonsense).

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org (David W. Hodgins)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2023 01:48:08 -0500
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 by: David W. Hodgins - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 06:48 UTC

On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 01:29:58 -0500, 28B.I874 <28B.I874@noabzba.net> wrote:
> You don't seem to get it ... severe Linux lock-outs by
> MB makers means NO LINUX/BSD for any and all effective
> purposes.
>
> These systems may be "free" but they are NOT intended to
> be "hobby" systems, they are meant to DO WORK, people
> volunteer to put in LOTS of effort. If that is removed then
> nobody but nobody will bother to contribute anymore.
> Why waste the effort ? It'd be like spending lots of
> time writing CP/M apps .......

Even m$ needs linux now, as their own software is not secure enough for
their servers.

>> Market share doesn't matter for the non-commercial distributions.
>
> Yes, it does - indirectly. Contributors DO like to think
> their efforts are being USEFUL in the larger sense. If
> that ceases their INTEREST ceases as well. It's a
> psychological thing.

That's why I include the friends and family of linux contributors. The
people they care about. Those are the only users who truly matter to the
contributors (as well as themselves of course). I agree people need to
feel their work is appreciated, but it doesn't necessarily have to be by
the general public.

>> For the
>> commercial distributions they only need enough companies or people
>> willing to
>> pay for their support services to keep their shareholders satisfied and the
>> bills/staff paid. Anything beyond that is just extra money for the
>> shareholders,
>> or employees who's pay depends on revenue.
>
> "Commercial" is less of a thing - for the elite few.
>
> Now that IBM has absorbed RHEL, well, RHEL will likely
> survive ... but increasingly for JUST the wealthy corps
> running Big Iron.

They find it useful to have people test the software they produce before
the issue it or updates for it to their staff. That's why Fedora exists.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2023 10:15:52 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 10:15 UTC

On 08/03/2023 08:59, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> I think the issue is that really the niche that Linux occupies is
>> dwindling as is Windows and MacOSX.
>>
>> The era of the desktop/laptop is ending.
>
> Servers aren’t going away and Linux is huge in that market (which is one
> reason why the theories about Linux being locked out of motherboards by
> secure boot are nonsense).
>
Yeah. That's certainly true. What I was thinking - maybe not 100%
accurately - is that home/end users rather than competent admins would
be the ones put off by complex booting.

And that is the market a that is all going essentially embedded/cloud.
And is the market that is increasingly where Apple/Microsoft are
concentrating.

It is pretty much established that if its a server, its running Linux.
In terms of user interface devices, it is Android/IOS unless its a
desktop laptop, where it's overwhelmingly Windows.

My point was, how much is the desktop/laptop market going to continue?

Its lost the home market to mobile devices. Its only in the office that
it still exists.

--
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit
atrocities.”

― Voltaire, Questions sur les Miracles à M. Claparede, Professeur de
Théologie à Genève, par un Proposant: Ou Extrait de Diverses Lettres de
M. de Voltaire

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:00:18 +0100
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 11:00 UTC

On 2023-03-08 06:38, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> On 3/7/23 12:44, pH wrote:
>> On 2023-03-07, Andrei Z. <no-email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> pH wrote:

....

>
>     If you have Windows on the machine make sure Fast Boot is turned
> off and that Windows completely shuts down when you leave it.  No
> Hibernation or Suspend for Windows.
>     If it is not shut down it may retain hooks that will make it
> difficult for Linux.

The converse is also true: if you hibernate Linux, on boot you should
boot Linux automatically, bypassing the boot menu.

If you manage to boot something else, disaster can happen. BTDT. I
hibernated Linux, then booted another Linux. This one opened some of the
partitions that the 1st had mounted; saw them in use, did fsck. Next
time, the 1st Linux booted, assumed (obviously) that the partitions were
still opened and wrote to them assuming the previous state.

Royal corruption issued.

Fortunately, Windows can not open Linux mounts, normally. And Linux
detects the hibernation state of Windows and refuses to touch it.

The only problem is that Windows lies to the user, and instead of
powering off it tries to be clever and hibernates instead.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2023 11:06:48 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 11:06 UTC

On 08/03/2023 11:00, Carlos E.R. wrote:

>
> The only problem is that Windows lies to the user, and instead of
> powering off it tries to be clever and hibernates instead.
>
That is to pretend it is actually a fast booting OS.
My Windows VM can explicitly store its state on shutdown.

But I know that it has.

--
"First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your
oppressors."
- George Orwell

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: mo01@posteo.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:50:28 +0100
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 by: Marco Moock - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 11:50 UTC

Am 08.03.2023 schrieb "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>:

> Fortunately, Windows can not open Linux mounts, normally. And Linux
> detects the hibernation state of Windows and refuses to touch it.

The Windows NTFS partition is in an unstable state when windows is
hibernated, so Linux just refuses to change anything on it. Reading is
still possible.

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:20 UTC

On 2023-03-08 12:50, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 08.03.2023 schrieb "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>:
>
>> Fortunately, Windows can not open Linux mounts, normally. And Linux
>> detects the hibernation state of Windows and refuses to touch it.
>
> The Windows NTFS partition is in an unstable state when windows is
> hibernated, so Linux just refuses to change anything on it. Reading is
> still possible.
>

The same as an ext2/3/4, xfs, reiserfs, btrfs, etc, are in an "unstable"
state when Linux is hibernated.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: invalid@invalid.invalid (Richard Kettlewell)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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 by: Richard Kettlewell - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 15:14 UTC

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

> On 08/03/2023 08:59, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>> I think the issue is that really the niche that Linux occupies is
>>> dwindling as is Windows and MacOSX.
>>>
>>> The era of the desktop/laptop is ending.
>> Servers aren’t going away and Linux is huge in that market (which is
>> one
>> reason why the theories about Linux being locked out of motherboards by
>> secure boot are nonsense).
>>
> Yeah. That's certainly true. What I was thinking - maybe not 100%
> accurately - is that home/end users rather than competent admins
> would be the ones put off by complex booting.
>
> And that is the market a that is all going essentially
> embedded/cloud. And is the market that is increasingly where
> Apple/Microsoft are concentrating.
>
> It is pretty much established that if its a server, its running Linux.
> In terms of user interface devices, it is Android/IOS unless its a
> desktop laptop, where it's overwhelmingly Windows.
>
> My point was, how much is the desktop/laptop market going to continue?
>
> Its lost the home market to mobile devices. Its only in the office
> that it still exists.

There’s a whole chunk of people who have a smartphone and don’t really
need anything else, certainly.

Surviving use cases for desktops & laptops that I’m aware of:

- Many fields of employment, as you say.

- Education (at many levels). Coursework on a smartphone sounds like a
thoroughly unpleasant experience. You could plug your phone into a
screen and keyboard and use SaaS tools, sure, but at that point it’s
easier to carry around a laptop.

- Gaming. A big enough market that it get its own category of gaming
laptop, and there’s no shortage of people prepared to spend serious
money on a gaming desktop.

- Photography. Smartphones have totally captured casual photography but
the people who are still buying DSLRs also want a decent environment
for editing their photos.

- Miscellenous hobbyists. Lots of tiny use cases but they add up.
e.g. you probably can research and organize your family tree with just
a smartphone but it’s not going to be much fun. Ditto any of a
thousand other activities.

There’s some irrationality buried in there, no doubt. Is a few FPS more
in a game really worth dropping a four-figure sum on a new graphics
card? Do you really need a gaming desktop instead of a PS4? But the
market is still there even so.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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 by: Robert Heller - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:06 UTC

At Wed, 08 Mar 2023 15:14:13 +0000 Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>
> > On 08/03/2023 08:59, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> >> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
> >>> I think the issue is that really the niche that Linux occupies is
> >>> dwindling as is Windows and MacOSX.
> >>>
> >>> The era of the desktop/laptop is ending.
> >> Servers aren’t going away and Linux is huge in that market (which is
> >> one
> >> reason why the theories about Linux being locked out of motherboards by
> >> secure boot are nonsense).
> >>
> > Yeah. That's certainly true. What I was thinking - maybe not 100%
> > accurately - is that home/end users rather than competent admins
> > would be the ones put off by complex booting.
> >
> > And that is the market a that is all going essentially
> > embedded/cloud. And is the market that is increasingly where
> > Apple/Microsoft are concentrating.
> >
> > It is pretty much established that if its a server, its running Linux.
> > In terms of user interface devices, it is Android/IOS unless its a
> > desktop laptop, where it's overwhelmingly Windows.
> >
> > My point was, how much is the desktop/laptop market going to continue?
> >
> > Its lost the home market to mobile devices. Its only in the office
> > that it still exists.
>
> There's a whole chunk of people who have a smartphone and don't really
> need anything else, certainly.
>
> Surviving use cases for desktops & laptops that I’m aware of:
>
> - Many fields of employment, as you say.
>
> - Education (at many levels). Coursework on a smartphone sounds like a
> thoroughly unpleasant experience. You could plug your phone into a
> screen and keyboard and use SaaS tools, sure, but at that point it's
> easier to carry around a laptop.
>
> - Gaming. A big enough market that it get its own category of gaming
> laptop, and there's no shortage of people prepared to spend serious
> money on a gaming desktop.
>
> - Photography. Smartphones have totally captured casual photography but
> the people who are still buying DSLRs also want a decent environment
> for editing their photos.

- Video production too.

>
> - Miscellenous hobbyists. Lots of tiny use cases but they add up.
> e.g. you probably can research and organize your family tree with just
> a smartphone but it's not going to be much fun. Ditto any of a
> thousand other activities.

- Software / Hardware development. *Someone* needs to write the software for
those smartphones AND everything running in the "Cloud" (servers). This
*also* includes various sorts of CAD. Also, the whole IoT scene (Arduinos
and such like) needs machines for cross compiling code and/or designing
circuits. (There are lots of hobbyis programmers, etc. And this will
continue.)

>
> There's some irrationality buried in there, no doubt. Is a few FPS more
> in a game really worth dropping a four-figure sum on a new graphics
> card? Do you really need a gaming desktop instead of a PS4? But the
> market is still there even so.
>

--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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 by: Rich - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 16:59 UTC

Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> On 08/03/2023 08:59, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>> My point was, how much is the desktop/laptop market going to
>> continue?
>>
>> Its lost the home market to mobile devices. Its only in the office
>> that it still exists.
>
> There's a whole chunk of people who have a smartphone and don't
> really need anything else, certainly.
>
> Surviving use cases for desktops & laptops that I'm aware of:
>
> - Many fields of employment, as you say.
>
> - Education (at many levels). Coursework on a smartphone sounds like a
> thoroughly unpleasant experience. You could plug your phone into a
> screen and keyboard and use SaaS tools, sure, but at that point it's
> easier to carry around a laptop.
>
> - Gaming. A big enough market that it get its own category of gaming
> laptop, and there's no shortage of people prepared to spend serious
> money on a gaming desktop.
>
> - Photography. Smartphones have totally captured casual photography but
> the people who are still buying DSLRs also want a decent environment
> for editing their photos.
>
> - Miscellenous hobbyists. Lots of tiny use cases but they add up.
> e.g. you probably can research and organize your family tree with just
> a smartphone but it's not going to be much fun. Ditto any of a
> thousand other activities.

The split very roughly slices down the divide between:

primarily consuming content created by others
vs
creating content for consumption by others

With 'gaming' being one where it is primarily a 'consumption'
activity, but with such performance needs that it drives an entire
category of hardware itself.

As well, for a huge majority of "users", 'consumption' is limited to
consuming their facebook feed and/or twitter/mastadon feed.

For the 'majority consumption' user, phones/tablets provide an almost
"it just works" experience for them. All the "dirty details" are taken
care of by the auto-updates by the makers, until the device is "out of
support" -- whereupon that user is encouraged to buy a new one (to
further sales for the maker).

And the population size of "content creators" will always be smaller
than "consumers", so proper full desktop setups will likely continue
to narrow to a smaller slice of the market. Sadly that also likely
means a more expensive market because of the smaller volume leading to
lower economies of scale.

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2023 17:55:30 +0000
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 17:55 UTC

On 08/03/2023 15:14, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> There’s some irrationality buried in there, no doubt. Is a few FPS more
> in a game really worth dropping a four-figure sum on a new graphics
> card?
If you want to wind I guess it is...

--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2023 17:59:51 +0000
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 17:59 UTC

On 08/03/2023 15:14, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 08/03/2023 08:59, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>> I think the issue is that really the niche that Linux occupies is
>>>> dwindling as is Windows and MacOSX.
>>>>
>>>> The era of the desktop/laptop is ending.
>>> Servers aren’t going away and Linux is huge in that market (which is
>>> one
>>> reason why the theories about Linux being locked out of motherboards by
>>> secure boot are nonsense).
>>>
>> Yeah. That's certainly true. What I was thinking - maybe not 100%
>> accurately - is that home/end users rather than competent admins
>> would be the ones put off by complex booting.
>>
>> And that is the market a that is all going essentially
>> embedded/cloud. And is the market that is increasingly where
>> Apple/Microsoft are concentrating.
>>
>> It is pretty much established that if its a server, its running Linux.
>> In terms of user interface devices, it is Android/IOS unless its a
>> desktop laptop, where it's overwhelmingly Windows.
>>
>> My point was, how much is the desktop/laptop market going to continue?
>>
>> Its lost the home market to mobile devices. Its only in the office
>> that it still exists.
>
> There’s a whole chunk of people who have a smartphone and don’t really
> need anything else, certainly.
>
> Surviving use cases for desktops & laptops that I’m aware of:
>
> - Many fields of employment, as you say.
>
> - Education (at many levels). Coursework on a smartphone sounds like a
> thoroughly unpleasant experience. You could plug your phone into a
> screen and keyboard and use SaaS tools, sure, but at that point it’s
> easier to carry around a laptop.
>
> - Gaming. A big enough market that it get its own category of gaming
> laptop, and there’s no shortage of people prepared to spend serious
> money on a gaming desktop.
>
> - Photography. Smartphones have totally captured casual photography but
> the people who are still buying DSLRs also want a decent environment
> for editing their photos.
>
> - Miscellenous hobbyists. Lots of tiny use cases but they add up.
> e.g. you probably can research and organize your family tree with just
> a smartphone but it’s not going to be much fun. Ditto any of a
> thousand other activities.
>
> There’s some irrationality buried in there, no doubt. Is a few FPS more
> in a game really worth dropping a four-figure sum on a new graphics
> card? Do you really need a gaming desktop instead of a PS4? But the
> market is still there even so.
>
Yep. but these are all specialised and professional uses. I think I
said design at one point. I know someone who paints extremely well on an
Ipad. But not as you say a phone
My point is that the desktop is in retreat to niches, and the fondle
slab or phone is infinitely preffered by οι πολλοι...
--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2023 20:33:41 +0100
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 19:33 UTC

On 2023-03-08 18:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 08/03/2023 15:14, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 08/03/2023 08:59, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>> I think the issue is that really the niche that Linux occupies is
>>>>> dwindling as is Windows and MacOSX.
>>>>>
>>>>> The era of the desktop/laptop is ending.
>>>> Servers aren’t going away and Linux is huge in that market (which is
>>>> one
>>>> reason why the theories about Linux being locked out of motherboards by
>>>> secure boot are nonsense).
>>>>
>>> Yeah. That's certainly true. What I was thinking - maybe not 100%
>>> accurately -  is that home/end users rather than competent admins
>>> would be the ones put off by complex booting.
>>>
>>> And that is the market a that is all going essentially
>>> embedded/cloud. And is the market that is increasingly where
>>> Apple/Microsoft are concentrating.
>>>
>>> It is pretty much established that if its a server, its running Linux.
>>> In terms of user interface devices, it is Android/IOS unless its a
>>> desktop laptop, where it's overwhelmingly Windows.
>>>
>>> My point was, how much is the desktop/laptop market going to continue?
>>>
>>> Its lost the home market to mobile devices. Its only in the office
>>> that it still exists.
>>
>> There’s a whole chunk of people who have a smartphone and don’t really
>> need anything else, certainly.
>>
>> Surviving use cases for desktops & laptops that I’m aware of:
>>
>> - Many fields of employment, as you say.
>>
>> - Education (at many levels). Coursework on a smartphone sounds like a
>>    thoroughly unpleasant experience. You could plug your phone into a
>>    screen and keyboard and use SaaS tools, sure, but at that point it’s
>>    easier to carry around a laptop.
>>
>> - Gaming. A big enough market that it get its own category of gaming
>>    laptop, and there’s no shortage of people prepared to spend serious
>>    money on a gaming desktop.
>>
>> - Photography. Smartphones have totally captured casual photography but
>>    the people who are still buying DSLRs also want a decent environment
>>    for editing their photos.
>>
>> - Miscellenous hobbyists. Lots of tiny use cases but they add up.
>>    e.g. you probably can research and organize your family tree with just
>>    a smartphone but it’s not going to be much fun. Ditto any of a
>>    thousand other activities.
>>
>> There’s some irrationality buried in there, no doubt. Is a few FPS more
>> in a game really worth dropping a four-figure sum on a new graphics
>> card? Do you really need a gaming desktop instead of a PS4? But the
>> market is still there even so.
>>
> Yep. but these are all specialised and professional uses.  I think I
> said design at one point. I know someone who paints extremely well on an
> Ipad. But not as you say a phone
> My point is that the desktop is in retreat to niches, and the fondle
> slab or phone is infinitely preffered by οι πολλοι...

Almost anybody doing work needs a computer. You can not type documents
on a phone or tablet, not spreadsheets, databases... Imagine typing a
novel. Replying to hundreds of emails per day.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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 by: Robert Heller - Wed, 8 Mar 2023 22:35 UTC

At Wed, 8 Mar 2023 20:33:41 +0100 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>
> On 2023-03-08 18:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> > On 08/03/2023 15:14, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> >> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
> >>
> >>> On 08/03/2023 08:59, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> >>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
> >>>>> I think the issue is that really the niche that Linux occupies is
> >>>>> dwindling as is Windows and MacOSX.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The era of the desktop/laptop is ending.
> >>>> Servers aren’t going away and Linux is huge in that market (which is
> >>>> one
> >>>> reason why the theories about Linux being locked out of motherboards by
> >>>> secure boot are nonsense).
> >>>>
> >>> Yeah. That's certainly true. What I was thinking - maybe not 100%
> >>> accurately -  is that home/end users rather than competent admins
> >>> would be the ones put off by complex booting.
> >>>
> >>> And that is the market a that is all going essentially
> >>> embedded/cloud. And is the market that is increasingly where
> >>> Apple/Microsoft are concentrating.
> >>>
> >>> It is pretty much established that if its a server, its running Linux.
> >>> In terms of user interface devices, it is Android/IOS unless its a
> >>> desktop laptop, where it's overwhelmingly Windows.
> >>>
> >>> My point was, how much is the desktop/laptop market going to continue?
> >>>
> >>> Its lost the home market to mobile devices. Its only in the office
> >>> that it still exists.
> >>
> >> There’s a whole chunk of people who have a smartphone and don’t really
> >> need anything else, certainly.
> >>
> >> Surviving use cases for desktops & laptops that I’m aware of:
> >>
> >> - Many fields of employment, as you say.
> >>
> >> - Education (at many levels). Coursework on a smartphone sounds like a
> >>    thoroughly unpleasant experience. You could plug your phone into a
> >>    screen and keyboard and use SaaS tools, sure, but at that point it’s
> >>    easier to carry around a laptop.
> >>
> >> - Gaming. A big enough market that it get its own category of gaming
> >>    laptop, and there’s no shortage of people prepared to spend serious
> >>    money on a gaming desktop.
> >>
> >> - Photography. Smartphones have totally captured casual photography but
> >>    the people who are still buying DSLRs also want a decent environment
> >>    for editing their photos.
> >>
> >> - Miscellenous hobbyists. Lots of tiny use cases but they add up.
> >>    e.g. you probably can research and organize your family tree with just
> >>    a smartphone but it’s not going to be much fun. Ditto any of a
> >>    thousand other activities.
> >>
> >> There’s some irrationality buried in there, no doubt. Is a few FPS more
> >> in a game really worth dropping a four-figure sum on a new graphics
> >> card? Do you really need a gaming desktop instead of a PS4? But the
> >> market is still there even so.
> >>
> > Yep. but these are all specialised and professional uses.  I think I
> > said design at one point. I know someone who paints extremely well on an
> > Ipad. But not as you say a phone
> > My point is that the desktop is in retreat to niches, and the fondle
> > slab or phone is infinitely preffered by οι πολλοι...
>
> Almost anybody doing work needs a computer. You can not type documents
> on a phone or tablet, not spreadsheets, databases... Imagine typing a
> novel. Replying to hundreds of emails per day.

Yeah, desktops and laptops won't go away until we get to the "Star Trek" /
"Expanse" level of AI / Voice command (and speech-to-text) / Hologram
projection level of UI. We might be getting close, but we're not quite there
yet...

>

--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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 by: 28C.I874 - Thu, 9 Mar 2023 01:35 UTC

On 3/8/23 1:48 AM, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 01:29:58 -0500, 28B.I874 <28B.I874@noabzba.net> wrote:
>>    You don't seem to get it ... severe Linux lock-outs by
>>    MB makers means NO LINUX/BSD for any and all effective
>>    purposes.
>>
>>    These systems may be "free" but they are NOT intended to
>>    be "hobby" systems, they are meant to DO WORK, people
>>    volunteer to put in LOTS of effort. If that is removed then
>>    nobody but nobody will bother to contribute anymore.
>>    Why waste the effort ? It'd be like spending lots of
>>    time writing CP/M apps .......
>
> Even m$ needs linux now, as their own software is not secure enough for
> their servers.

No ... they'll do (or have done) like Apple and buy some
brand-x Unix and dress it up so it looks & feels like Winders.
THEN they'll crush Linux/Unix ....

Anti-trust ? Forget it ! Gates, like Jobs, learned early
on to GREASE his politicians.

Linus doesn't/can't.

>>> Market share doesn't matter for the non-commercial distributions.
>>
>>    Yes, it does - indirectly. Contributors DO like to think
>>    their efforts are being USEFUL in the larger sense. If
>>    that ceases their INTEREST ceases as well. It's a
>>    psychological thing.
>
> That's why I include the friends and family of linux contributors. The
> people they care about. Those are the only users who truly matter to the
> contributors (as well as themselves of course). I agree people need to
> feel their work is appreciated, but it doesn't necessarily have to be by
> the general public.

Write lots of CP/M apps ? What happened to that "circle of
contributors" ? Something better/easier came along and ...

If efforts are not "appreciated by the public", or at least
mainstream professionals, then efforts will CEASE. This is
how it works. Nobody is trying to impress their friends by
writing a yet-better PacMan for the Radio Shack Color Computer.
The first computer I learned anything on was a PDP-11. There
IS a fairly decent emulator - and a Unix and some apps you
can load on it. I don't.

The idea that you're somehow "contributing to the future"
is a powerful, compelling, thing. Linux as a mere "hobby
system you can only run on 25-year old hardware" just
does not sound like "the future", not something to waste
your time on.

SO - let's figure out how to be pro-active ... ways to
keep Linux and hardware to run it fresh and relevant.

>>> For the
>>> commercial distributions they only need enough companies or people
>>> willing to
>>> pay for their support services to keep their shareholders satisfied
>>> and the
>>> bills/staff paid. Anything beyond that is just extra money for the
>>> shareholders,
>>> or employees who's pay depends on revenue.
>>
>>    "Commercial" is less of a thing - for the elite few.
>>
>>    Now that IBM has absorbed RHEL, well, RHEL will likely
>>    survive ... but increasingly for JUST the wealthy corps
>>    running Big Iron.
>
> They find it useful to have people test the software they produce before
> the issue it or updates for it to their staff. That's why Fedora exists.

The fewer the alternatives, the more you can charge for what
remains. They'll hire professional testers ... or, now, get
an AI to go over it all.

Hate to be such a downer ... but I've seen many flashes
in the proverbial pan. Linux has flashed-up a bit longer
than most, but that doesn't mean it can't die out - esp
when big money players profit by destroying or assimilating
it. See what IBM did with RedHat and take note. Next up
will be Debian ... then the rest.

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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 by: 28B.A864 - Thu, 16 Mar 2023 05:24 UTC

On 3/8/23 12:33 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> On 3/7/23 10:08, Marco Moock wrote:
>> Am 07.03.2023 um 08:01:57 Uhr schrieb Bobbie Sellers:
>>
>>> On 3/6/23 23:42, Marco Moock wrote:
>>>> Am 06.03.2023 schrieb Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com>:
>>>>> When installing Linux to a machine with the Secure Boot
>>>>> enabled most of us disable it.  Some few Linux systems have paid
>>>>> the toll to Microsoft and gotten a key which will satisfy the
>>>>> Secure Boot system. When using Windows and any Linux system on the
>>>>> same hardware you must be aware that Windows without warnings
>>>>> sends new kernels to the system and when that happens the previous
>>>>> boot setting are over-written messing up the Linux boot as well.
>>>>> You will need a Live Linux Distribution to fix the broken boot
>>>>> syste.
>>>>
>>>> This only applies for BIOS boot. With UEFI boot, only the boot order
>>>> changes, so it is possible to change it easily in the UEFI settings.
>>> No it overwrites the Linux EFI information.
>>
>> I haven't experienced that yet.
>>
>>> Having Windows on a Linux machine is equivalent to a Trojan
>>> or worse.  Now-a-days (Oh you moderns) you can run Linux from
>>> a Flash Drive with a persistent partition for your work so
>>> there is no need for an installation.
>>
>> I prefer Linux installed and windows locked in in Virtualbox. :-)
>
>     Sounds good to me.
>
>     bliss - old and tired tonight.

Even better ... NO WINDERS *AT ALL* ! :-)

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
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Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Thu, 16 Mar 2023 09:59 UTC

On 16/03/2023 05:24, 28B.A864 wrote:
> On 3/8/23 12:33 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>> On 3/7/23 10:08, Marco Moock wrote:
>>> Am 07.03.2023 um 08:01:57 Uhr schrieb Bobbie Sellers:
>>>
>>>> On 3/6/23 23:42, Marco Moock wrote:
>>>>> Am 06.03.2023 schrieb Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com>:
>>>>>> When installing Linux to a machine with the Secure Boot
>>>>>> enabled most of us disable it.  Some few Linux systems have paid
>>>>>> the toll to Microsoft and gotten a key which will satisfy the
>>>>>> Secure Boot system. When using Windows and any Linux system on the
>>>>>> same hardware you must be aware that Windows without warnings
>>>>>> sends new kernels to the system and when that happens the previous
>>>>>> boot setting are over-written messing up the Linux boot as well.
>>>>>> You will need a Live Linux Distribution to fix the broken boot
>>>>>> syste.
>>>>>
>>>>> This only applies for BIOS boot. With UEFI boot, only the boot order
>>>>> changes, so it is possible to change it easily in the UEFI settings.
>>>> No it overwrites the Linux EFI information.
>>>
>>> I haven't experienced that yet.
>>>
>>>> Having Windows on a Linux machine is equivalent to a Trojan
>>>> or worse.  Now-a-days (Oh you moderns) you can run Linux from
>>>> a Flash Drive with a persistent partition for your work so
>>>> there is no need for an installation.
>>>
>>> I prefer Linux installed and windows locked in in Virtualbox. :-)
>>
>>      Sounds good to me.
>>
>>      bliss - old and tired tonight.
>
>
>   Even better ... NO WINDERS *AT ALL* !  :-)
Oh that the three programs I use in it were available for Linux at *any*
price
--
“Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,”

– Ludwig von Mises

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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 by: TJ - Thu, 16 Mar 2023 19:18 UTC

On 2023-03-16 05:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>    Even better ... NO WINDERS *AT ALL* !  😄
> Oh that the three programs I use in it were available for Linux at *any*
> price

Agreed.

Adobe Reader DC, for use with New York State income tax forms. Nothing
else, I mean NOTHING, even other Windows pdf readers, will do for them.

HP Color Laserjet CP1215 driver. Linux prints best with the foo2hp
driver, but hp-toolbox can't use it to check for things like toner
levels unless the inferior(for that particular printer) hplip is used.

Solunar Table Calculator, so I can know when the fish are likely to bite
according to the positions of the Sun and Moon.

OK, I wouldn't pay ANY price for that last one, but as long as I need
Windows for the other two...

TJ

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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 by: Marco Moock - Thu, 16 Mar 2023 20:05 UTC

Am 16.03.2023 um 15:18:21 Uhr schrieb TJ:

> Adobe Reader DC, for use with New York State income tax forms.

Are you required to use them?
Is it possible to fill them out manually?

> HP Color Laserjet CP1215 driver. Linux prints best with the foo2hp
> driver, but hp-toolbox can't use it to check for things like toner
> levels unless the inferior(for that particular printer) hplip is used.

At least the software is available for GNU/Linux.

> OK, I wouldn't pay ANY price for that last one, but as long as I need
> Windows for the other two...

I started to reject any task I can only do on windows - I will do that
on paper if they cannot provide a working solution without Windows.
Maybe think about it.

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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 by: Robert Heller - Thu, 16 Mar 2023 21:06 UTC

At Thu, 16 Mar 2023 21:05:42 +0100 Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:

>
> Am 16.03.2023 um 15:18:21 Uhr schrieb TJ:
>
> > Adobe Reader DC, for use with New York State income tax forms.
>
> Are you required to use them?

Evince works with the IRS's fill in forms.

> Is it possible to fill them out manually?
>
> > HP Color Laserjet CP1215 driver. Linux prints best with the foo2hp
> > driver, but hp-toolbox can't use it to check for things like toner
> > levels unless the inferior(for that particular printer) hplip is used.
>
> At least the software is available for GNU/Linux.
>
> > OK, I wouldn't pay ANY price for that last one, but as long as I need
> > Windows for the other two...
>
> I started to reject any task I can only do on windows - I will do that
> on paper if they cannot provide a working solution without Windows.
> Maybe think about it.
>
>
>

--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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 by: Carlos E.R. - Thu, 16 Mar 2023 21:14 UTC

On 2023-03-16 20:18, TJ wrote:
> On 2023-03-16 05:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>    Even better ... NO WINDERS *AT ALL* !  😄
>> Oh that the three programs I use in it were available for Linux at
>> *any* price
>
> Agreed.
>
> Adobe Reader DC, for use with New York State income tax forms. Nothing
> else, I mean NOTHING, even other Windows pdf readers, will do for them.

My national tax agency requires using a certain web page which works on
all oses. Years ago, certain forms had to be filled using Adobe, nothing
else would work, because they contained javascript. I paid someone to do
that, the forms were too complex, anyway. Since that instance, I never
had to do use adobe reader.

(and back then, there was a version of adobe reader for linux that
worked most of the times)

>
> HP Color Laserjet CP1215 driver. Linux prints best with the foo2hp
> driver, but hp-toolbox can't use it to check for things like toner
> levels unless the inferior(for that particular printer) hplip is used.

I have the CP1515n. Works fine.

I see the toner level on the printer own web page.

For driver, I have 3 different drivers. One postscript, one hpijs pcl3,
and the other is pcl3, hpcups.

I don't know how to tell cups to list all printer with drivers info.
Maybe "lpinfo", but can't find the concoction.

>
> Solunar Table Calculator, so I can know when the fish are likely to bite
> according to the positions of the Sun and Moon.
>
> OK, I wouldn't pay ANY price for that last one, but as long as I need
> Windows for the other two...

I also have uses for Windows.

- ADE, adobe digital editions, to download and install some purchased
ebooks with DRM. Most of the time the Kobo Touch does the job over WiFi,
but if I buy outside of the kobo shop, then it is ADE.

- Kobo software some times, specially if there is a problem in the reader.

- TomTom software to do some operations with their hardware. The
current incumbent can do almost everything using the internal WiFi, but
not everything, like setting debug mode.

- Installing firmware in some devices, like some cameras. Or using the
proprietary camera software.

Fortunately, nowdays I can make do with a virtualized Windows, but
sometimes I needed a real one in the past.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
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From: 29V.X746@noqb1u.net (29V.X746)
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2023 22:43:13 -0400
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 by: 29V.X746 - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 02:43 UTC

On 3/16/23 5:06 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
> At Thu, 16 Mar 2023 21:05:42 +0100 Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
>
>>
>> Am 16.03.2023 um 15:18:21 Uhr schrieb TJ:
>>
>>> Adobe Reader DC, for use with New York State income tax forms.
>>
>> Are you required to use them?
>
> Evince works with the IRS's fill in forms.
>
>> Is it possible to fill them out manually?
>>
>>> HP Color Laserjet CP1215 driver. Linux prints best with the foo2hp
>>> driver, but hp-toolbox can't use it to check for things like toner
>>> levels unless the inferior(for that particular printer) hplip is used.
>>
>> At least the software is available for GNU/Linux.
>>
>>> OK, I wouldn't pay ANY price for that last one, but as long as I need
>>> Windows for the other two...
>>
>> I started to reject any task I can only do on windows - I will do that
>> on paper if they cannot provide a working solution without Windows.
>> Maybe think about it.

Note that Adobe offers "cloud" versions of Adobe. The
price is a tad high though.

Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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From: robin_listas@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 11:20:08 +0100
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 10:20 UTC

On 2023-03-17 03:43, 29V.X746 wrote:
> On 3/16/23 5:06 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
>> At Thu, 16 Mar 2023 21:05:42 +0100 Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Am 16.03.2023 um 15:18:21 Uhr schrieb TJ:
>>>
>>>> Adobe Reader DC, for use with New York State income tax forms.
>>>
>>> Are you required to use them?
>>
>> Evince works with the IRS's fill in forms.
>>
>>> Is it possible to fill them out manually?
>>>
>>>> HP Color Laserjet CP1215 driver. Linux prints best with the foo2hp
>>>> driver, but hp-toolbox can't use it to check for things like toner
>>>> levels unless the inferior(for that particular printer) hplip is used.
>>>
>>> At least the software is available for GNU/Linux.
>>>
>>>> OK, I wouldn't pay ANY price for that last one, but as long as I need
>>>> Windows for the other two...
>>>
>>> I started to reject any task I can only do on windows - I will do that
>>> on paper if they cannot provide a working solution without Windows.
>>> Maybe think about it.
>
>
>   Note that Adobe offers "cloud" versions of Adobe. The
>   price is a tad high though.
>

I have a certain hatred of Adobe.

Initially, they provided a Linux version of the Acrobat reader, then
they they stopped.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

computers / comp.os.linux.misc / Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

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