Money in the software business is never an issue for the customer. If
they do what they're supposed to do, and nothing more than that, openly
or subterraneanly, the money paid is well, well, well worth it. So this
"FOSS" thing everybody here is pro or con about, should really be just
"OSS". The issue, always, is the _abuse_ that the user experiences in
using them.

As far as the OS is concerned, Windows OS is an abusive product. It is
not so because you have to pay for it. It is certainly so because it
abuses the users in multiple, different ways. Furthermore, it does so
deliberately. Therefore, this is not just the nuisance involved. Yes,
forced lengthy and time-consuming updates are bothersome, but that's not
the big problem. Problem is that (for instance) they _deliberately_
remove all your modifications and adjustments that you had spent time to
create, each time such updates are made, if any of them prevents them to
subject the user to commercials.

Say, this "Edge" thingy. They force it on you certainly for a reason :)
I have no doubt, the Edge running in the background without even your
knowledge is collecting and selling your behavior to a myriad of
commercial companies.

They're crooks.

Using the users' paid-for equipment to make money by selling user
information without permission, and without sharing the revenue thus
made with them, is simply theft. So it is abuse.

Microsoft owes each user millions of dollars, for ruining their time,
and using their equipments without their permission, to make money.

They're crooks!

So what is this Linux then.

Linux, for me, and perhaps only in my imagination, gives the promise
that if I'm careful with it, it won't abuse me. But I'd be damned if I
trust that :)

Haven't started it yet, but after I seriously begin using Linux, if it
turns out relatively non-abusive, I may even pay a reasonable price for
using it (donation or something). But if it pans out to be abusive to
me, which it might, then there's really no difference between Windows
and Linux.

Who's certain these Linux OS's of yours aren't selling information about
you to commercial companies? They certainly do so for the NSA, this much
is proven. So why not to commercial companies as well?

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 3/11/2024 7:00 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:
>
>
> Money in the software business is never an issue for the customer. If
> they do what they're supposed to do, and nothing more than that, openly
> or subterraneanly, the money paid is well, well, well worth it. So this
> "FOSS" thing everybody here is pro or con about, should really be just
> "OSS". The issue, always, is the _abuse_ that the user experiences in
> using them.
>
> As far as the OS is concerned, Windows OS is an abusive product. It is
> not so because you have to pay for it. It is certainly so because it
> abuses the users in multiple, different ways. Furthermore, it does so
> deliberately. Therefore, this is not just the nuisance involved. Yes,
> forced lengthy and time-consuming updates are bothersome, but that's not
> the big problem. Problem is that (for instance) they _deliberately_
> remove all your modifications and adjustments that you had spent time to
> create, each time such updates are made, if any of them prevents them to
> subject the user to commercials.
>
> Say, this "Edge" thingy. They force it on you certainly for a reason :)
> I have no doubt, the Edge running in the background without even your
> knowledge is collecting and selling your behavior to a myriad of
> commercial companies.
>
> They're crooks.
>
> Using the users' paid-for equipment to make money by selling user
> information without permission, and without sharing the revenue thus
> made with them, is simply theft. So it is abuse.
>
> Microsoft owes each user millions of dollars, for ruining their time,
> and using their equipments without their permission, to make money.
>
> They're crooks!

blah blah blah

Got a shred of evidence MS is selling your personal info without your
knowledge or permission? Of course you don't.

And don't forget you agreed to the End User License Agreement when you
installed Windows or booted your machine the first time.

That EULA for Win11 includes:

"3 Privacy; Consent to Use of Data. Your privacy is important to us.
Some of the software features send or receive information when using
those features. Many of these features can be switched off in the user
interface, or you can choose not to use them. By accepting this
agreement and using the software you agree that Microsoft may collect,
use, and disclose the information as described in the Microsoft Privacy
Statement at https://aka.ms/privacy, and as may be described in the user
interface associated with the software features.

C:\Windows\System32\license.rtf

https://aka.ms/privacy points to
https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement

Got it, Sandy?

> So what is this Linux then.
>
> Linux, for me, and perhaps only in my imagination, gives the promise
> that if I'm careful with it, it won't abuse me. But I'd be damned if I
> trust that :)
>
> Haven't started it yet, but after I seriously begin using Linux, if it
> turns out relatively non-abusive, I may even pay a reasonable price for
> using it (donation or something). But if it pans out to be abusive to
> me, which it might, then there's really no difference between Windows
> and Linux.
>
> Who's certain these Linux OS's of yours aren't selling information about
> you to commercial companies? They certainly do so for the NSA, this much
> is proven. So why not to commercial companies as well?

NSA buys personal info on Linux users? Sez who?

Physfitfreak <Physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:

>Say, this "Edge" thingy. They force it on you certainly for a reason :)
>I have no doubt, the Edge running in the background without even your
>knowledge is collecting and selling your behavior to a myriad of
>commercial companies.

I use Edge as a third browser under Linux, actually, it's not like I
care about M$ software, having some philosophical need to purge it,
it's specifically what is currently Win11, the bloat. But Edge under
Linux is what I view my Hotmail/Outlook email with, and serves as a
third browser with regard to logging in to a site on behalf of someone
who visits me.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 12.03.24 01:00, Physfitfreak wrote:
>
> Who's certain these Linux OS's of yours aren't selling information about
> you to commercial companies? They certainly do so for the NSA, this much
> is proven.

Care to share a link where I could read about Linux OS as a whole or a
Linux distro (which are not the same thing) sharing data with the NSA?

> So why not to commercial companies as well?

You can check it yourself: there are plenty of traffic monitors around.
Run them and see where the traffic goes.

favask wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 12.03.24 01:00, Physfitfreak wrote:
>>
>> Who's certain these Linux OS's of yours aren't selling information about
>> you to commercial companies? They certainly do so for the NSA, this much
>> is proven.
>
> Care to share a link where I could read about Linux OS as a whole or a
> Linux distro (which are not the same thing) sharing data with the NSA?

I'm pretty sure the NSA is quite capable of cracking user information without
the cooperation of open-source coders.

>> So why not to commercial companies as well?
>
> You can check it yourself: there are plenty of traffic monitors around.
> Run them and see where the traffic goes.

SELinux?

--
You're not my type. For that matter, you're not even my species!!!

On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 18:00:37 -0500, Physfitfreak wrote:

> Money in the software business is never an issue for the customer. If
> they do what they're supposed to do, and nothing more than that, openly
> or subterraneanly, the money paid is well, well, well worth it. So this
> "FOSS" thing everybody here is pro or con about, should really be just
> "OSS". The issue, always, is the _abuse_ that the user experiences in
> using them.
>

No. The issue has always been about QUALITY.

With few exceptions, FOSS products are far superior to any commercial
offerings, and of those few exceptions most are available as GNU/Linux
versions.

Anyone who doubts this just does not understand how to effectively
utilize either computers or software.

I have an in-depth knowledge of digital computation and I use FOSS
products exclusively, both for my extensive avocational projects and
for my equally extensive business ($$$$$) purposes (for which I make
BIG BUCKS).

The superior quality of FOSS has been true since the very beginning
in 1998 or thereabouts.

But it is also true that commercial software is a complete racket.
Commercial products do not so much abuse as they gouge the naive
user at every opportunity. The subscription model is an excellent
example of this practice. I've been to companies that pay $100 per
month subscription fees for software that isn't even worth $20 to purchase
outright. There is no doubt. Commercial software is a racket and
it's only going to get worse in the future.

In conclusion:

1) FOSS is far superior to commercial products and anyone who disagrees
is only revealing his total digital stupidity.

2)Commercial software is basically an extortion racket. If the user
cancels his subscription then all his accumulated data will vaporize --
unless of course he purchases a data extraction service for a hefty
fee.

P.S. Since I don't own a smart phone, one of my clients gave me an
Android (i.e. Google) phone to handle 2-factor authentication. Holy
moley! I could not believe the total garbage that is contained therein!
The user has absolutely no control of anything. I always keep it turned
off except for those few minutes that I need it. But once again, the
face of commercialism revels its ugly and exploitive face.

Nuxxie <nuxxie@linux.rocks> wrote:
>On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 18:00:37 -0500, Physfitfreak wrote:
>
>> Money in the software business is never an issue for the customer. If
>> they do what they're supposed to do, and nothing more than that, openly
>> or subterraneanly, the money paid is well, well, well worth it. So this
>> "FOSS" thing everybody here is pro or con about, should really be just
>> "OSS". The issue, always, is the _abuse_ that the user experiences in
>> using them.
>
>No. The issue has always been about QUALITY.
>
>With few exceptions, FOSS products are far superior to any commercial
>offerings, and of those few exceptions most are available as GNU/Linux
>versions.
>
>Anyone who doubts this just does not understand how to effectively
>utilize either computers or software.
>
>I have an in-depth knowledge of digital computation and I use FOSS
>products exclusively, both for my extensive avocational projects and
>for my equally extensive business ($$$$$) purposes (for which I make
>BIG BUCKS).
>
>The superior quality of FOSS has been true since the very beginning
>in 1998 or thereabouts.
>
>But it is also true that commercial software is a complete racket.
>Commercial products do not so much abuse as they gouge the naive
>user at every opportunity. The subscription model is an excellent
>example of this practice. I've been to companies that pay $100 per
>month subscription fees for software that isn't even worth $20 to purchase
>outright. There is no doubt. Commercial software is a racket and
>it's only going to get worse in the future.
>
>In conclusion:
>
>1) FOSS is far superior to commercial products and anyone who disagrees
>is only revealing his total digital stupidity.
>
>2)Commercial software is basically an extortion racket. If the user
>cancels his subscription then all his accumulated data will vaporize --
>unless of course he purchases a data extraction service for a hefty
>fee.
>
>P.S. Since I don't own a smart phone, one of my clients gave me an
>Android (i.e. Google) phone to handle 2-factor authentication. Holy
>moley! I could not believe the total garbage that is contained therein!
>The user has absolutely no control of anything. I always keep it turned
>off except for those few minutes that I need it. But once again, the
>face of commercialism revels its ugly and exploitive face.

Get some real drugs, fairy.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 07:19:57 -0400, Joel wrote:

>
> Get some real drugs, fairy.
>

Stick a cherry bomb up your fuckin' ass and have your ladyboy
light the fuse:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_bomb

That'll be a REAL hot foot.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

Nuxxie <nuxxie@linux.rocks> wrote:

>> Get some real drugs, fairy.
>
>Stick a cherry bomb up your fuckin' ass and have your ladyboy
>light the fuse:
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_bomb
>
>That'll be a REAL hot foot.
>
>Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

My computer use advocates Linux by way of example.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Nuxxie wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 07:19:57 -0400, Joel wrote:
>
>>
>> Get some real drugs, fairy.
>>
>
> Stick a cherry bomb up your fuckin' ass and have your ladyboy
> light the fuse:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_bomb
>
> That'll be a REAL hot foot.
>
> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
>
>
https://postimg.cc/kVvpnGqh

On 3/12/2024 7:12 AM, Lyin' Larry Pietraskiewicz wrote:

> I use FOSS products exclusively,

Still babbling that old lie huh?

"​Today I gots me the very latest Windows 11 Enterprise and Pro Office
2021. I needs this cuz I works for the US Armee and I got to run
Solidworks." - Aug 2022

> both for my extensive avocational projects and
> for my equally extensive business ($$$$$) purposes (for which I make
> BIG BUCKS).

LMFAO! For Linux values of "BIG BUCKS".

On 3/11/24 7:25 PM, Joel wrote:
> Physfitfreak <Physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Say, this "Edge" thingy. They force it on you certainly for a reason :)
>> I have no doubt, the Edge running in the background without even your
>> knowledge is collecting and selling your behavior to a myriad of
>> commercial companies.
>
>
> I use Edge as a third browser under Linux, actually, it's not like I
> care about M$ software, having some philosophical need to purge it,
> it's specifically what is currently Win11, the bloat. But Edge under
> Linux is what I view my Hotmail/Outlook email with, and serves as a
> third browser with regard to logging in to a site on behalf of someone
> who visits me.
>

The funny thing about 'bloat' is that it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

What we've seen with some Linux fanboy braggarts is that one can write
very speedy code if one optimistically assumes that there's no on ever
doing anything malicious to hack into a system, so there's zero overhead
to validate/sandbox the inputs. OTOH, if you do write code which isn't
so trusting, there's then more validation checks to get done, so it is
inherently "bloated" by intentional design.

Fortunately, CPU power now easily exceeds the 80% use case demands, plus
storage has become quite cheap, which means that it isn't anywhere near
as important to have all code be so strongly optimized for performance
through minimized size to have a good (& good enough) UI.

A useful illustration of this is to look within one's current trash to
see how much storage space is being used without any particular concern
for conserving storage media. I'm presently at a very low 3.5MB.

-hh

On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 13:43:52 -0400, -hh wrote:

>
> What we've seen with some Linux fanboy braggarts
>

Why thank you. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

>
> is that one can write
> very speedy code if one optimistically assumes that there's no on ever
> doing anything malicious to hack into a system,
>

I can state, not optimistically but with absolute certainty, that there
is/has/will no one ever doing anything malicious to hack into my system.

Nope. Never has. Never will.

>
> so there's zero overhead
> to validate/sandbox the inputs.
>

It's not just valdating the inputs but a plethora of other things that
the distros enforct that really, truly, and unequivocally degrade the
performance of system.

Distro lackeys, like you, are using deliberately crippled systems.

>
> Fortunately, CPU power now easily exceeds the 80% use case demands,
>

Not MY use case.

But then that's just more excuse mongering from an idiot that is forced
to use a crippled system and is helplessly trapped therein.

On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 13:43:52 -0400, -hh wrote:

>
> What we've seen with some Linux fanboy braggarts ...
>

Oh you're just saying that 'cause it's true.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

Well, we GNU/Linux "fanboy braggarts" have a fuck of a lot
to brag about. We are advocating the greatest OS in the
history of technical man, fer chrissake.

What does your beloved Apphole allow you to brag about?
Huh? What?

Apphole is strongly preferred by most brain-dead females
and sodomites (a.k.a. homosexuals).

Whoa! Better get out the fountain pen and the fancy
stationary 'cause you got a letter to write home.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

GNU/Linux is the BEST for the BEST.

Guess what. That ain't you.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

Nuxxie <nuxxie@linux.rocks> wrote:
>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 13:43:52 -0400, -hh wrote:
>
>> What we've seen with some Linux fanboy braggarts
>
>Distro lackeys, like you, are using deliberately crippled systems.

My system could upgrade to Windows 12, any inefficiency in the
binaries from Mint I install would be negligible, if you weren't
obsessed as fuck.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 3/12/2024 9:15 AM, % wrote:
> Nuxxie wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 07:19:57 -0400, Joel wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Get some real drugs, fairy.
>>>
>>
>> Stick a cherry bomb up your fuckin' ass and have your ladyboy
>> light the fuse:
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_bomb
>>
>> That'll be a REAL hot foot.
>>
>> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
>>
>>
> https://postimg.cc/kVvpnGqh

The role of Photoshop is obvious in this. We don't know how Joel looks.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

-hh wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 3/11/24 7:25 PM, Joel wrote:
>>
>> I use Edge as a third browser under Linux, actually, it's not like I
>> care about M$ software, having some philosophical need to purge it,
>> it's specifically what is currently Win11, the bloat. But Edge under
>> Linux is what I view my Hotmail/Outlook email with, and serves as a
>> third browser with regard to logging in to a site on behalf of someone
>> who visits me.
>
> The funny thing about 'bloat' is that it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Well, there's bloat due to good practise and there's bloat due to bad
practise... Cue Windows.

My gawd, GIMP on Linux is a second or two for the launch. On Windows it
is that time just to know that your click worked.

--
October 12, the Discovery.
It was wonderful to find America, but it would have been more wonderful to miss
it.
-- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar"

On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 13:43:52 -0400, -hh wrote:

> Fortunately, CPU power now easily exceeds the 80% use case demands, plus
> storage has become quite cheap, which means that it isn't anywhere near
> as important to have all code be so strongly optimized for performance
> through minimized size to have a good (& good enough) UI.

I'm having a flashback to the late '90s. I was interested in Java as a
cross platform solution as were many. AWT wasn't the richest widget set
but it tied into the native UI and ran reasonably well. Then came Swing
which turned Java into a bloated, slow, piece of crap. The advice on the
Java forums was 'get a faster machine', not 'we should fix Swing'.

To this day you can always tell a Java app -- click on an icon and nothing
happens for a long, long time.

On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 18:16:53 +0000, Nuxxie wrote:

> I can state, not optimistically but with absolute certainty, that there
> is/has/will no one ever doing anything malicious to hack into my system.
>
> Nope. Never has. Never will.

I fully believe you. That would be like dragging out the angle grinder to
cut the lock cable on a dumpster so you could go diving.

On 3/12/2024 6:12 AM, Nuxxie wrote:
> No. The issue has always been about QUALITY.

Not always. You're younger than me, so haven't seen days that I admired
the Commodore 64 which I'd dumpster-dived to get.

Quality issues were a luxury that came later. We got by with whatever we
had, and none were abusive. The abuse began much later as Americans
turned more and more into Sheep.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 3/12/2024 7:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 18:16:53 +0000, Nuxxie wrote:
>
>> I can state, not optimistically but with absolute certainty, that there
>> is/has/will no one ever doing anything malicious to hack into my system.
>>
>> Nope. Never has. Never will.
>
> I fully believe you. That would be like dragging out the angle grinder to
> cut the lock cable on a dumpster so you could go diving.

Hehe :)

One's noise can be someone else's data.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 22:02:02 -0500, Physfitfreak wrote:

> Quality issues were a luxury that came later. We got by with whatever we
> had, and none were abusive. The abuse began much later as Americans
> turned more and more into Sheep.

Americans always have had some ovine DNA. Or maybe it's German DNA.
Germans like a nice, orderly world without anyone rocking the boat. In
this country they've had a synergistic relationship with the Irish who
enjoy politics.

On 3/12/2024 3:20 PM, Farley Flud wrote:
> Apphole is strongly preferred by most brain-dead females
> and sodomites (a.k.a. homosexuals).

Hahhahahh :-))

I kind of think so too. For 45 fucking years I haven't understood what
it is about it that attracts some people. The higher price of it? Then
you ought to add masochists to your list as well.

I think it works a bit like lipstick for its fans too :)

--
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On 3/12/2024 7:35 PM, rbowman wrote:
> Then came Swing
> which turned Java into a bloated, slow, piece of crap.

So that's why Java lost popularity.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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On 3/11/2024 11:54 PM, favask wrote:
> Care to share a link where I could read about Linux OS as a whole or a
> Linux distro (which are not the same thing) sharing data with the NSA?

You need to ask ChrisV for it.

I had collected three links to information online to prove that, then
the above gentleman asked me for proof of it exactly as if he was my
boss and I owed him a million dollars that he knew I will never pay him
back.

So I told him to dig for it himself.

Not you, and not anyone else here, will ever get those three links from
me. You'd have to go to ChrisV for that.

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