Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Nightfox on Thu Jul 06 2023 12:43:14

>> I've heard some services are able to detect whether you're using a VPN
>> and still deny access based on that.

Ph> They most certainly can. But I would very much suggest anyone to leave an
Ph> ISP that does such things :).

I'm not aware of ISPs that do it... but some services (websites) will block/restrict access. Since VPNs are also used in order to anonymize access for hacking efforts.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Phigan on Thu Jul 06 2023 16:24:00

Ga> In my area, or at least the location of my house, that is not an option,
Ga> assuming one wants broadband/cable internet access. Yes, that's right,
Ga> there are still plenty of monopolies allowed to do business. My ISP (a
Ga> major/nationwide one) is one of them.

If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Jul 08 2023 17:08:36

MR> arent vpns usually much much slower, though?
MR> i wouldnt want to stream movies on a vpn.

A good/paid VPN will not allow a connection as fast as your ISP will... but you don't need 100+mbps to watch a video stream... Most video streams are under 10Mbps.

https://www.vdocipher.com/blog/video-bandwidth-explanation#HD-FHD-UHD

While 4k content will require upwards of 25k for h264, we're at a point where many devices for 4k video will support h265 or AV1 decoding.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
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-=> Tracker1 wrote to Gamgee <=-

Ga> In my area, or at least the location of my house, that is not an option,
Ga> assuming one wants broadband/cable internet access. Yes, that's right,
Ga> there are still plenty of monopolies allowed to do business. My ISP (a
Ga> major/nationwide one) is one of them.

Tr> If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
Tr> alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
Tr> wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.

What?? LOL

So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet
access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?

What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work
then?

Come on man.

.... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
� Synchronet � Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 09 2023 18:33:00

> -=> Tracker1 wrote to Gamgee <=-
> Tr> If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
> Tr> alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
> Tr> wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.
>
> What?? LOL
>
> So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet
> access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
> least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?
>
> What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work
> then?

In some areas both Verizon and T-mobile offer what they call fixed wireless service.
This is a router that has a couple of switch ports and wireless for your inside of your home network on one side and cellular as the wan.
These kinds of connections may or may not allow you to run servers so running your bbs as an inbound server may not be possible with out routing it through some special vpn first.

---
■ Synchronet ■ Cw Shack Bbs telnet kf4yey.com 2330

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 09 2023 06:33 pm

Tr>> If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
Tr>> alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
Tr>> wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.

Ga> What?? LOL

Ga> So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet
Ga> access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
Ga> least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?

Ga> What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work
Ga> then?

Ga> Come on man.

I think there are some home internet services that use a cellular connection..? It's not always a phone using a cellular data connection.

Nightfox

---
■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Khronos to Gamgee on Mon Jul 10 2023 09:48 am

> Re: Re: Which VPN?
> By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 09 2023 18:33:00
>
> > -=> Tracker1 wrote to Gamgee <=-
> > Tr> If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
> > Tr> alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
> > Tr> wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.
> >
> > What?? LOL
> >
> > So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet
> > access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
> > least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?
> >
> > What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work
> > then?
>
> In some areas both Verizon and T-mobile offer what they call fixed wireless
> This is a router that has a couple of switch ports and wireless for your ins
> These kinds of connections may or may not allow you to run servers so runnin
>

Some cell providers are very selective regarding the level of content they
deliver. I've read about people having a great streaming package with their p
hone, however it is tied down to 360p due to it being viewed from a phone. If
you used a cellular gateway, the provider would treat the data differently.

Of course, that discount or special would've been restricted to running off a
mobile device. Even though T-mobile and other providers are offering 5g to
gateway devices, there is probably a "fair access" policy in place to meter
or restrict the same level of usage you can get from fiber or cable.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Nightfox to Gamgee on Mon Jul 10 2023 10:46 am

> Re: Re: Which VPN?
> By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 09 2023 06:33 pm
>
> Tr>> If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
> Tr>> alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
> Tr>> wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.
>
> Ga> What?? LOL
>
> Ga> So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet
> Ga> access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
> Ga> least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?
>
> Ga> What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work
> Ga> then?
>
> Ga> Come on man.
>
> I think there are some home internet services that use a cellular connection
>
> Nightfox
>

Yes. There are gateways or routers that have a sim card socket

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

-=> Khronos wrote to Gamgee <=-

> -=> Tracker1 wrote to Gamgee <=-
> Tr> If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
> Tr> alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
> Tr> wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.

> What?? LOL
>
> So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet
> access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
> least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?
>
> What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work
> then?

Kh> In some areas both Verizon and T-mobile offer what they call
Kh> fixed wireless service. This is a router that has a couple of
Kh> switch ports and wireless for your inside of your home network on
Kh> one side and cellular as the wan. These kinds of connections may
Kh> or may not allow you to run servers so running your bbs as an
Kh> inbound server may not be possible with out routing it through
Kh> some special vpn first.

Ahhh, OK. Didn't know about that. Sounds like a significant cost, for
likely crappy performance, and not being able to use the custom router
that I'm using now. Not even a remote chance of such a thing happening.

.... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
� Synchronet � Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

-=> Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-

Tr>> If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
Tr>> alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
Tr>> wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.

Ga> What?? LOL

Ga> So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet
Ga> access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
Ga> least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?

Ga> What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work
Ga> then?

Ga> Come on man.

Ni> I think there are some home internet services that use a cellular
Ni> connection..? It's not always a phone using a cellular data
Ni> connection.

OK, didn't know about that being a thing. Honestly doesn't seem like a
workable situation, unless maybe you really had ZERO other options.
Thanks for the info.

.... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
� Synchronet � Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Khronos on Mon Jul 10 2023 08:22 pm
> Ahhh, OK. Didn't know about that. Sounds like a significant cost, for
> likely crappy performance, and not being able to use the custom router
> that I'm using now. Not even a remote chance of such a thing happening.

You'd be surprised about the performance, actually. In a place where cable
internet was available, and the cable company was just down the street, we were
still getting really shitty internet service with vastly different speeds
throughout the day and many periods of downtime. Technically, TMobile home
internet is not available in this place, but I ordered it to a place that is
and now I get a solid 50-75mbit all day long there. Now, it's the Tmo network
so it is NATed, no incoming connectiongs, and outgoing connections that are idl
longer than 5 minutes get killed. So if you want to do fun networking stuff on
it, you have to get creative with reverse proxies and have access to other
stuff out on the internet. But, if you just want to stream TV and check your
email and whatever out in some little town, it works fine. My "uncle-in-law"
(is that a thing?) had a bunch of issues with his DSL so I got him the TMo home
internet up there, too, where they keep teasing that it's "coming soon". He
loves it.

Oh yeah, I just use my normal dd-wrt'd router behind TMo's for some double
(triple?) NAT goodness. Works fine. It's just easier to manage devices with the
custom router.
The TMo one's wifi and everything is disabled.

---
■ Synchronet ■ TIRED of waiting 2 hours for a taco? GO TO TACOPRONTO.bbs.io

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 09 2023 18:33:00

Tr>> If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
Tr>> alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
Tr>> wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.

Ga> What?? LOL

Ga> So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet
Ga> access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
Ga> least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?

Ga> What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work
Ga> then?

No, they have dedicated cellular modem/routers that are meant for home use. They also have plans for these devices that cost much less than equivalent data usage on a cell phone plan.

Ga> Come on man.

Really?!?


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Khronos on Mon Jul 10 2023 20:22:00

Ga> Ahhh, OK. Didn't know about that. Sounds like a significant cost, for
Ga> likely crappy performance, and not being able to use the custom router
Ga> that I'm using now. Not even a remote chance of such a thing happening.

A friend is getting a pretty consistent 80-100mbps down and 10-15 up on his, which is significantly better than the alternative (DSL) for his area. As I mentioned will really depend on the coverage to your home.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Jul 08 2023 05:08 pm

> arent vpns usually much much slower, though?
> i wouldnt want to stream movies on a vpn.

I don t know about full VPN solutions. Setting an http/https proxy on a server
in a remote datacenter certainly seems to do the trick*

* you have to ensure your proxy is not adding headers to your connection that
give away your real IP, though.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 09 2023 06:33 pm

> -=> Tracker1 wrote to Gamgee <=-
>
> Ga> In my area, or at least the location of my house, that is not an option > Ga> assuming one wants broadband/cable internet access. Yes, that's right,
> Ga> there are still plenty of monopolies allowed to do business. My ISP (a
> Ga> major/nationwide one) is one of them.
>
> Tr> If you have good cellular signal, that can be a decent
> Tr> alternative... slightly higher pings and lower throughput than
> Tr> wired options, but still relatively decent and well-priced.
>
> What?? LOL
>
> So....... I should use my phone as a "hot spot" to provide internet
> access for watching TV / streaming NetFlix / internet access for at
> least a dozen devices in the house, including my BBS?
>
> What if I'm not home (and my cellphone is with me). How do things work
> then?
>
> Come on man.
>
>
>
> ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
> --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52

Many ISP will give you a router with 4G capability. You just connect all your
home stuff to it as if it were a regular ADSL or fibre subscription.

It sucks because, being a cellular network, the quality of the connection won tbe steady and you are likely to be subjected to datacaps. Still, it is an
option for some people.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Gamgee to Khronos on Mon Jul 10 2023 08:22 pm

> Ahhh, OK. Didn't know about that. Sounds like a significant cost, for
> likely crappy performance, and not being able to use the custom router
> that I'm using now. Not even a remote chance of such a thing happening.
>

People who use this things usually do for one of the following reasons:

* They live in an isolated area where no ISP will ever bring cabling.
* They want a router they can carry arround so they can build a mini LAN aroundit without having to call the ISP every time they travel in order to get a
cable.

People like me are the primary audience for the first type. I am lucky because
there is a Wimax provider. Wimax subscriptions are much slower but their
quality of service is very steady.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Arelor to Gamgee on Thu Jul 13 2023 01:07 pm

> Re: Re: Which VPN?
> By: Gamgee to Khronos on Mon Jul 10 2023 08:22 pm
>
> > Ahhh, OK. Didn't know about that. Sounds like a significant cost, for
> > likely crappy performance, and not being able to use the custom router
> > that I'm using now. Not even a remote chance of such a thing happening.
> >
>
> People who use this things usually do for one of the following reasons:
>
> * They live in an isolated area where no ISP will ever bring cabling.
> * They want a router they can carry arround so they can build a mini LAN aro
> cable.
>
> People like me are the primary audience for the first type. I am lucky becau
> there is a Wimax provider. Wimax subscriptions are much slower but their
> quality of service is very steady.
>
> --
> gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
>

I live in a rural area, and broadband is non-existant. Comcast will not run c
able in places where there are less than 20 houses per mile. There are 5
houses on the 1 mile section of road I'm on. Cell reception is crap because
the carriers won't put up towers in the middle of nowhere. I have to use
satellite, and the area is rolling hills so line of sight WISP is
non-existant. In the township north of me they gt grany money and Midwest Ene
rgy ran fiber all over the township. I'm a half mile on the wrong side of
the township border. I'm hoping my township follows through and applies for
the grant money to run fiber. My neighbor down the road tried out a T-mobile
5g gateway, and they couldn't get a solid enough signal.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Moondog to Arelor on Thu Jul 13 2023 10:01 pm

> of
> the township border. I'm hoping my township follows through and applies for
> the grant money to run fiber. My neighbor down the road tried out a T-mobile
> 5g gateway, and they couldn't get a solid enough signal.

are you sure they gave him a 5g gateway? they would only let me try out a 4g gateway which was useless to me

that's too bad you live out there, you hve to pray for the tesla blimps.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Ph> IMO, here are good/valid reasons for using a VPN:
Ph>
Ph> - Using geo-locked services, meaning sites or services that check what
Ph> country you're in.
Ph> - Using torrents or similar file-sharing type services on a network that
Ph> blocks them (public hotspots sometimes) or simply from a network other

Thanks for the explanation. I thought a VPN would hide my IP by changing it and would also encrypt my connection therefore prying eyes could not steal my passwords and user names. I've tried windscribe and it slows down my connection speed. ProtonVPN does the same.

.... GeoWorks while Win dozes

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: HusTler to Phigan on Tue Jul 04 2023 04:43 am

> Thanks for the explanation. I thought a VPN would hide my IP by changing
> it and would also encrypt my connection therefore prying eyes could not
> steal my passwords and user names.

You get most of that by just using TLS (e.g. HTTPS). But yeah, VPNs can help to hide your IP address or have you masquerade as an IP host from another network/location.

> I've tried windscribe and it slows down
> my connection speed. ProtonVPN does the same.

You don't normally use a VPN all the time for all traffic: Just when you need it and only for the apps or systems that need it (not your entire LAN).
--
digital man (rob)

Sling Blade quote #24:
Karl: Kaiser blade. I hit my mother upside the head with it. Mmm... Killed her.
Norco, CA WX: 85.5°F, 37.0% humidity, 13 mph SSE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
---
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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: HusTler to Phigan on Tue Jul 04 2023 04:43 am

> Ph> - Using geo-locked services, meaning sites or services that check what
> Ph> country you're in.
>
> Thanks for the explanation. I thought a VPN would hide my IP by changing
> it and would also encrypt my connection therefore prying eyes could not

Exactly what I'm talking about above. Geo-locked services check your originating IP, and if it isn't on a network in a certain country, that service doesn't allow you access. When you use a VPN, the destination host (the service), thinks your originating IP is the VPN's endpoint. So, yes, that means the service you're connecting to doesn't see what your real IP is, but that doesn't mean nobody else does. The VPN service certainly knows your real originating IP, at the very least. Say you were _actually_ worried about keeping some government agency from knowing where you were connecting to.. if the agency knows every endpoint of a VPN service (which they do), they can monitor them at the router level and even without packet inspection make very well educated guesses as to which outbound connection matches which inbound connection.

As for encrypting your connection, like DM said, your traffic to most websites is already encrypted. If you are, say, on McDonald's (public) wifi, and you wanted to connect to a telnet BBS from there, a VPN might keep others on the McDonald's network from seeing your BBS password, but it wouldn't keep others on the VPN's network from seeing it. In cases like that, I just SSH to my home network and tunnel through there, making my house the VPN.

---
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Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to HusTler on Wed Jul 05 2023 01:46 pm

Ph> Exactly what I'm talking about above. Geo-locked services check your
Ph> originating IP, and if it isn't on a network in a certain country, that
Ph> service doesn't allow you access. When you use a VPN, the destination host
Ph> (the service), thinks your originating IP is the VPN's endpoint. So, yes,
Ph> that means the service you're connecting to doesn't see what your real IP
Ph> is, but that doesn't mean nobody else does. The VPN service certainly

I've heard some services are able to detect whether you're using a VPN and still deny access based on that.

Nightfox

---
■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Nightfox to Phigan on Thu Jul 06 2023 09:09 am

> I've heard some services are able to detect whether you're using a VPN and
> still deny access based on that.

They most certainly can. But I would very much suggest anyone to leave an ISP that does such things :).

---
■ Synchronet ■ TIRED of waiting 2 hours for a taco? GO TO TACOPRONTO.bbs.io

Re: Re: Which VPN?
By: Phigan to Nightfox on Thu Jul 06 2023 12:43 pm

>> I've heard some services are able to detect whether you're using a VPN
>> and still deny access based on that.

Ph> They most certainly can. But I would very much suggest anyone to leave an
Ph> ISP that does such things :).

It's not just an ISP, but I've heard streaming services such as Netflix are starting to do this to prevent customers from using a VPN to access content that's normally not available in their country.

Nightfox

---
■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

-=> Phigan wrote to Nightfox <=-

> I've heard some services are able to detect whether you're using a VPN and
> still deny access based on that.

Ph> They most certainly can. But I would very much suggest anyone to
Ph> leave an ISP that does such things :).

In my area, or at least the location of my house, that is not an option,
assuming one wants broadband/cable internet access. Yes, that's right,
there are still plenty of monopolies allowed to do business. My ISP (a
major/nationwide one) is one of them.

.... If it weren't for Edison we'd be using computers by candlelight
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
� Synchronet � Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL