Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Kaelon to Ogg on Sun May 01 2022 10:08 pm

> Re: Halt and Catch Fire
> By: Ogg to Kaelon on Sun May 01 2022 08:27 pm
>
> > YES, seen it several years ago. I thought it was pretty good
> > too. I really liked the part where they are trying to recover
> > the lost data on the hard drives.
>
> Yes! I especially like how they built a work-around to break the IBM PC-DOS
> of breaking IBM's apparent monopoly. Extremely entertaining!
> _____
> -=: Kaelon :=-
>
I read about a computer that was used mainly in classrooms in Russia, and
it's name was the Russian word for Apple. Collectors have confirmed they
were pirated Apple clones with Wozniak's notations left in the BIOS.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to Kaelon on Mon May 02 2022 09:42 pm

> I read about a computer that was used mainly in classrooms in Russia, and
> it's name was the Russian word for Apple. Collectors have confirmed they
> were pirated Apple clones with Wozniak's notations left in the BIOS.

That's hilarious! I had no clue about this.
_____
-=: Kaelon :=-

---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

-=> Moondog wrote to Kaelon <=-

Mo> I read about a computer that was used mainly in classrooms in Russia,
Mo> and it's name was the Russian word for Apple. Collectors have
Mo> confirmed they were pirated Apple clones with Wozniak's notations left
Mo> in the BIOS.

Compaq reverse engineered the PC BIOS much in the way they described in
HACF, although with some theatrical license on the show. I always thought
that Cardiff was supposed to be Compaq, seeing as they were both in Texas
and both battling IBM in the marketplace.

Compaq didn't come from a mainframe background, though.

.... "The swift blade penetrates the salad."
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
� Synchronet � .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Kaelon to Moondog on Tue May 03 2022 06:47 am

> Re: Halt and Catch Fire
> By: Moondog to Kaelon on Mon May 02 2022 09:42 pm
>
> > I read about a computer that was used mainly in classrooms in Russia, and
> > it's name was the Russian word for Apple. Collectors have confirmed they
> > were pirated Apple clones with Wozniak's notations left in the BIOS.
>
> That's hilarious! I had no clue about this.
> _____
> -=: Kaelon :=-
>
This is one o fthe reasons I've always been skeptical to all those urban
myths about people having a 1965 Buick getting 65mpg until it wass recalled,
then got 12mpg like every other land yacht. The story is usually a
conspiracy by the oil companies buying up and burying fuel efficiency
technology to keep companies from producing it. The problem is you can only
buy out people in a capitalistic system. If Cold War era Soviets or China
heard there was someoone building a 65mpg carburator or cheap, easy to service
enrgy cells, they'd send in spies or an extraction team to steal that
technology. The Soviets and Red China cannot be paid off from using a
technology that would put them ahead of every country in the free world.
They were not afraid to freely steal intellectual property.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 01:36 pm

> technology. The Soviets and Red China cannot be paid off from using a
> technology that would put them ahead of every country in the free world.
> They were not afraid to freely steal intellectual property.

I would generally agree, but one 'conspiracy theory' that is hard to shake is the proven story of how General Motors killed the first Electric Vehicle, despite its proven technical success. Perhaps gasoline was too cheap, and the entire supply manufacturing line was U.S.-controlled, but there is enough industry insider disclosure about this that it is generally accepted as fact.
_____
-=: Kaelon :=-

---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Tue May 03 2022 08:25 am

> -=> Moondog wrote to Kaelon <=-
>
> Mo> I read about a computer that was used mainly in classrooms in Russia,
> Mo> and it's name was the Russian word for Apple. Collectors have
> Mo> confirmed they were pirated Apple clones with Wozniak's notations left
> Mo> in the BIOS.
>
> Compaq reverse engineered the PC BIOS much in the way they described in
> HACF, although with some theatrical license on the show. I always thought
> that Cardiff was supposed to be Compaq, seeing as they were both in Texas
> and both battling IBM in the marketplace.
>
> Compaq didn't come from a mainframe background, though.
>
>
> ... "The swift blade penetrates the salad."

I used to work for Zenith Data Systems from 1990-1996. Zenith Electronics Cor
p bought the comp[uter division of Heathkit around 1979 and named them ZDS.
Heathkit was a company that produced educational materials and DIY kits.
In the early days you could buy an airplane kit, a go kart , or motor bike,
buit later on they centered the business on consumer electrnics DIY kits.
You could buy a stereo receiver or a TV set, ham radio, for examples, and
even sold test equipment and diagnostic tools either assembled or in a kit.

In the 70's they branched kits teaching about micro controllers and cpus.
You could buy a kit with a keypad and led display, and enter in code line
perline and execute it. Abreadboard on the trainer allowed you to interface
the trainer with self made circuits. They produced a system called the H8 which
was a competitor for the Altair and IMSAI S-100 bus systems. Intead of rows
of led's and toggle swtiches, they opted for using an octal keypad and 8
segment numeric led displays. This eveolved into the H89, which was an H19
terminal integrated with the H8. IIRC Hacf used Zenith 89's (the re-branded
H89) to fill the role of H19 terminals because the prop house had enough.

Anyways, they also shared similar beginnings as Cardiff. Cardiff also had a
bit of Texas Instruments in their DNA.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Kaelon to Moondog on Tue May 03 2022 02:43 pm

> Re: Halt and Catch Fire
> By: Moondog to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 01:36 pm
>
> > technology. The Soviets and Red China cannot be paid off from using a
> > technology that would put them ahead of every country in the free world.
> > They were not afraid to freely steal intellectual property.
>
> I would generally agree, but one 'conspiracy theory' that is hard to shake i
> ring line was U.S.-controlled, but there is enough industry insider disclosu
> _____
> -=: Kaelon :=-
>
A company killing off their own development is different than external
investors suppressing technology. Xerox is a good example of a company
killing a good idea because of cost due to the technology available. In 1973
they create the Palo Alto Research Center to research the possibilies of a
paperless office. They developed not only the workstation, but also the
servers, the network, and laser printing and email system to make it work.
Part of what killed it was the price of a workstation being $10,000 usd in a
time when a Buick LeSabre cost $3000. The upper managment was short sighted
and seen it as an exercise in spending money. After all, they were a copier/
imagin company. Why interfere with their paper driven businesses?

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

> Compaq reverse engineered the PC BIOS much in the way they described in
> HACF, although with some theatrical license on the show. I always thought
> that Cardiff was supposed to be Compaq, seeing as they were both in Texas
> and both battling IBM in the marketplace.

> Compaq didn't come from a mainframe background, though.

IIRC, Compaq also didn't used to sell radio kits, either, but part of it
could have been based off of what they did.

* SLMR 2.1a * She cried away her life since she fell off the cradle!!

---
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

> I would generally agree, but one 'conspiracy theory' that is hard to shake is
> e proven story of how General Motors killed the first Electric Vehicle, despit
> its proven technical success. Perhaps gasoline was too cheap, and the entire
> pply manufacturing line was U.S.-controlled, but there is enough industry insi
> r disclosure about this that it is generally accepted as fact.

General Motors did not exist when the first electric vehicles were built
well over 100 years ago.

* SLMR 2.1a * "Stamp Collection?? Ha-Ha!" - Nelson

---
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

-=> Dumas Walker wrote to KAELON <=-

DW> General Motors did not exist when the first electric vehicles were
DW> built well over 100 years ago.

While GM itself didn't exist, the companies that went into GM did exist and
some did produce electric cars for a time.

The best examples of electric cars still run at the Henry Ford Museum in
Dearborn, MI. The date I remember is 1812 for those (but don't quote me on
that). The museum even has a hybrid car from 1898.

But people need to remember that, at that time, the only paved roads were
within the city limits, greatly limiting the area where one could drive an
electic car - since they didn't have the power to go through things like deep
mud.

.... Compatible: Blows up a little later than Incompatible
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
� Synchronet � Final Zone BBS - finalzone.ddns.net - www.xadara.com

-=> Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Mo> Anyways, they also shared similar beginnings as Cardiff. Cardiff also
Mo> had a bit of Texas Instruments in their DNA.

Interesting, since the Clarks worked there and left to start their
first project. If memory serves, one of their daughters had a Speak
and Spell that they fixed, and they were involved in the design.

.... Towards the insignificant
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
� Synchronet � .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

-=> Moondog wrote to Kaelon <=-

Mo> A company killing off their own development is different than external
Mo> investors suppressing technology. Xerox is a good example of a company
Mo> killing a good idea because of cost due to the technology available.
Mo> In 1973 they create the Palo Alto Research Center to research the
Mo> possibilies of a paperless office.

Maybe they let their project fail because their business model
revolved around TRILLIONS OF PIECES OF PAPER?

Mo> The upper managment was short sighted and seen it as an
Mo> exercise in spending money. After all, they were a copier/ imagin
Mo> company. Why interfere with their paper driven businesses?

:)

I think of the stories of Steve Wozniak approaching his employer
(Hewlett Packard) to notify them that he'd created the Apple while
under a work product agreement and HP had first right to his IP. They
passed on it.

.... Go outside. Shut the door.
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
� Synchronet � .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

-=> Dumas Walker wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

> Compaq didn't come from a mainframe background, though.

DW> IIRC, Compaq also didn't used to sell radio kits, either, but part of
DW> it could have been based off of what they did.

Yep, many of the elements of the show appear to be amalgams.

.... Discover your formulas and abandon them
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
� Synchronet � .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Wed May 04 2022 07:10 am

PF> I think of the stories of Steve Wozniak approaching his employer
PF> (Hewlett Packard) to notify them that he'd created the Apple while
PF> under a work product agreement and HP had first right to his IP. They
PF> passed on it.

I remember the scene in "Pirates of Silicon Valley" showing Steve Wozniak bringing their early Apple computer to his manager at HP, and the reasoning for HP passing on it was along the lines of "what would people at home want with a computer?"

Nightfox

---
■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

> But people need to remember that, at that time, the only paved roads were
> within the city limits, greatly limiting the area where one could drive an
> electic car - since they didn't have the power to go through things like deep
> mud.

A lot of places outside of cities also didn't have electricity.

* SLMR 2.1a * "Excellent...excellent..." - Mr. Burns

---
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

> Mo> Anyways, they also shared similar beginnings as Cardiff. Cardiff also
> Mo> had a bit of Texas Instruments in their DNA.

> Interesting, since the Clarks worked there and left to start their
> first project. If memory serves, one of their daughters had a Speak
> and Spell that they fixed, and they were involved in the design.

I don't think Clark's wife worked at Cardiff... or are you saying that they
both worked at TI at one point (she did for sure)?

* SLMR 2.1a * "We use language??" - Beavis

---
� Synchronet � CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Dumas Walker to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Wed May 04 2022 04:04 pm

> > Compaq reverse engineered the PC BIOS much in the way they described in
> > HACF, although with some theatrical license on the show. I always thought
> > that Cardiff was supposed to be Compaq, seeing as they were both in Texas
> > and both battling IBM in the marketplace.
>
> > Compaq didn't come from a mainframe background, though.
>
> IIRC, Compaq also didn't used to sell radio kits, either, but part of it
> could have been based off of what they did.
>
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * She cried away her life since she fell off the cradle!!
>
Columbia Data Products was the first company to use the clean room technique
to create an IBM compatible BIOS, and they were already producing Z-80
systems that ran CP/M. Compaq was the second company to clean room a BIOS in a
way IBM couldn't defeat. Cardiff is an alagam of several companies trying to
exploit the IBM compatible loophole. Some of the Cardiff Giant's
technologies and enhacements were based on several smaller companies designs
from that period. Mutiny was inspired by Playnet, and player avatar section
was inspired by Quantumlink and Lucasfilm's Caribe with slight changes.

That is what made the show interesting. The show is full of honorable
mentions and several red herrings regarding the direction the show was moving
in. There was also the Dell inspired path which took a strange turn

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Dumas Walker to KAELON on Wed May 04 2022 04:04 pm

> > I would generally agree, but one 'conspiracy theory' that is hard to shake
> > e proven story of how General Motors killed the first Electric Vehicle, de
> > its proven technical success. Perhaps gasoline was too cheap, and the ent
> > pply manufacturing line was U.S.-controlled, but there is enough industry
> > r disclosure about this that it is generally accepted as fact.
>
> General Motors did not exist when the first electric vehicles were built
> well over 100 years ago.
>
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * "Stamp Collection?? Ha-Ha!" - Nelson
>

True, but GM had brought the idea back and were very interested in seeing an
electric car as being more than a glorified golf cart. Ford was one of many
that produced a battery powered car in the early 1900's. One company built
what looked like a covered wagon with an electric motor targetted towards
rich women who wanted to drive but not mess with turning a crank. It had a
range of two or three miles, which was enough range to get downtown and back.
Fords cars were part of a sales pitch to help his buddy Edison to sell
electricity. Ford also produced cars that were made of hemp fibers and ran
off hemp oil. He also made cars that ran of ethanol to promote farming. I
can't imagine Ford was that serious in making an electric car when he
realized the technology to make high capacity batteries was in it's infancy.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Wed May 04 2022 06:59 am

> -=> Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
>
> Mo> Anyways, they also shared similar beginnings as Cardiff. Cardiff also
> Mo> had a bit of Texas Instruments in their DNA.
>
> Interesting, since the Clarks worked there and left to start their
> first project. If memory serves, one of their daughters had a Speak
> and Spell that they fixed, and they were involved in the design.
>
>
>
>
> ... Towards the insignificant

Name dropping and Easter eggs help build their world and make it valid.
Famicon/ Nintendo also makes an appearance. Gordon's name is derived from
Gordon Moore, a co-founder of Intel.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Wed May 04 2022 07:10 am

> -=> Moondog wrote to Kaelon <=-
>
> Mo> A company killing off their own development is different than external
> Mo> investors suppressing technology. Xerox is a good example of a company
> Mo> killing a good idea because of cost due to the technology available.
> Mo> In 1973 they create the Palo Alto Research Center to research the
> Mo> possibilies of a paperless office.
>
> Maybe they let their project fail because their business model
> revolved around TRILLIONS OF PIECES OF PAPER?
>
> Mo> The upper managment was short sighted and seen it as an
> Mo> exercise in spending money. After all, they were a copier/ imagin
> Mo> company. Why interfere with their paper driven businesses?
>
> :)
>
> I think of the stories of Steve Wozniak approaching his employer
> (Hewlett Packard) to notify them that he'd created the Apple while
> under a work product agreement and HP had first right to his IP. They
> passed on it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ... Go outside. Shut the door.

Xerox passed on several technologies that came from Xerox PARC. hard to
imagine several of the eveyday technologies we enjoy were solid concepts 50
years ago.

Check out Doug Engelbart's Mother of all Demos on Youtube from
1968. The live demonstration featured the introduction of a complete
computer hardware and software system called the oN-Line System or, more
commonly, NLS. The 90-minute presentation demonstrated for the first time
many of the fundamental elements of modern personal computing: windows,
hypertext, graphics, efficient navigation and command input, video
conferencing, the computer mouse, word processing, dynamic file linking,
revision control, and a collaborative real-time editor. Engelbart's
presentation was the first to publicly demonstrate all of these elements in a
single system.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 05 2022 09:26 am

> Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
> By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Wed May 04 2022 07:10 am
>
> PF> I think of the stories of Steve Wozniak approaching his employer
> PF> (Hewlett Packard) to notify them that he'd created the Apple while
> PF> under a work product agreement and HP had first right to his IP. They
> PF> passed on it.
>
> I remember the scene in "Pirates of Silicon Valley" showing Steve Wozniak br
>
> Nightfox
>
Wehn I worked in nuclear power generation, my boss had been there since the
plant went online in 1978. Computer Science and Services was a subset from
the Instrumentation and Controls department. His boss bought 3 desktops and
upper management freaked out. They were considered less useful than a
terminal because they couldn't connect to anything, and wereway less powerful
than a mainframe. It took several years before minds were changed. 15 years
ago they replaced most of their computers with a thin client environment,
then recently went back to desktops due to downfalls in having a terminal
server being a critical point of failure

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Dumas Walker to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Thu May 05 2022 04:57 pm

> > Mo> Anyways, they also shared similar beginnings as Cardiff. Cardiff als
> > Mo> had a bit of Texas Instruments in their DNA.
>
> > Interesting, since the Clarks worked there and left to start their
> > first project. If memory serves, one of their daughters had a Speak
> > and Spell that they fixed, and they were involved in the design.
>
>
> I don't think Clark's wife worked at Cardiff... or are you saying that they
> both worked at TI at one point (she did for sure)?
>
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * "We use language??" - Beavis
>
Clark and Donna met in college, like the creators of Cisco. Clark worked for
Cardiff, Donna worked for TI.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Fri May 06 2022 11:32 am

Mo> Wehn I worked in nuclear power generation, my boss had been there since
Mo> the plant went online in 1978. Computer Science and Services was a subset
Mo> from the Instrumentation and Controls department. His boss bought 3
Mo> desktops and upper management freaked out. They were considered less
Mo> useful than a terminal because they couldn't connect to anything, and
Mo> wereway less powerful than a mainframe. It took several years before minds
Mo> were changed. 15 years ago they replaced most of their computers with a
Mo> thin client environment, then recently went back to desktops due to
Mo> downfalls in having a terminal server being a critical point of failure

With the online and cloud apps being developed these days, I think it's a little weird that we've gone from using dumb terminals connected to mainframes years ago, to having our own powerful desktop computers, to now many people using simple devices using online software again.

Nightfox

---
■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com

-=> Dumas Walker wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

> Interesting, since the Clarks worked there and left to start their
> first project. If memory serves, one of their daughters had a Speak
> and Spell that they fixed, and they were involved in the design.

DW> I don't think Clark's wife worked at Cardiff... or are you saying that
DW> they both worked at TI at one point (she did for sure)?

I thought they both did at one time. I'm sure there's a HACF wiki
out there I can check...

.... A journey of a thousand sandwiches begins with a single cut.
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
� Synchronet � .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Fri May 06 2022 02:41 pm

> Re: Re: Halt and Catch Fire
> By: Moondog to Nightfox on Fri May 06 2022 11:32 am
>
> Mo> Wehn I worked in nuclear power generation, my boss had been there since
> Mo> the plant went online in 1978. Computer Science and Services was a subs
> Mo> from the Instrumentation and Controls department. His boss bought 3
> Mo> desktops and upper management freaked out. They were considered less
> Mo> useful than a terminal because they couldn't connect to anything, and
> Mo> wereway less powerful than a mainframe. It took several years before mi
> Mo> were changed. 15 years ago they replaced most of their computers with a
> Mo> thin client environment, then recently went back to desktops due to
> Mo> downfalls in having a terminal server being a critical point of failure
>
> With the online and cloud apps being developed these days, I think it's a li
> g online software again.
>
> Nightfox
>
Unless you are doing something hardware intensive such as gaming, video
editing or 3d modeling or cad. Served apps are the way to go. No worries
about software patches at the server end. That was one of the nice things
about thin and zero clients. We had a few very intelligent, yet sometime
clueless engineers that would not read who emails are from or weigh in their
minds if an emal seemed odd, and would click on aatachments they think are
pdf or other documents, then suddenly get a notice their session is infected.
Luckily with thin sessions, you can close that session and the virus is
gone.

Downsides are bandwidth and enough memory and cpu utilization set aside to
run everything

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net