El> The Internet ruined everything. :-( J/K

Nah .. self check out did though.

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Re: Re: Internet
By: JaXson to Elf on Fri Dec 08 2023 07:58 pm

El>> The Internet ruined everything. :-( J/K

Ja> Nah .. self check out did though.

One thing I've wondered about - People complain because they don't like self-checkouts at the store, yet people like to pump their own gas for their car and often don't like needing a gas station attendant. Seems a bit contradictory.

I live in a state where self-service gas stations were against the law (only recently did my state start allowing self-service gas), and I've often seen people from out of state complain when they come here and find out they couldn't pump their own gas. But they don't like checking their own groceries?

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Internet
By: Nightfox to JaXson on Sat Dec 16 2023 06:07 pm

> One thing I've wondered about - People complain because they don't like
> self-checkouts at the store, yet people like to pump their own gas for their
> car and often don't like needing a gas station attendant. Seems a bit
> contradictory.

Yeh, I haven't seen anyone complain about someone else pumping their gas,
unless they were being charged more to do it. Then again, I don't live in
Oregon :). Been there once, though! Didn't mind letting someone else fill 'er
up. Back in the day, we had a full service option in my state. That went away,
though, because who wants to pay more for gas? People with those jobs here
weren't that careful anyway, I don't think.

Personally, I don't use self-checkout because I'm not a fan of machines
replacing our workforce... or having ME replace the workforce! I'll let another
person check me out. That's one more job for them and possibly one more
available job elsewhere for someone like me.

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Re: Re: Internet
By: JaXson to Elf on Fri Dec 08 2023 07:58 pm

> El> The Internet ruined everything. :-( J/K
>
> Nah .. self check out did though.
>

i love self check out. now they dont have enough self checkout lines open.
i just think we should get a discount for using it.
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Re: Re: Internet
By: Nightfox to JaXson on Sat Dec 16 2023 06:07 pm

> I live in a state where self-service gas stations were against the law (only
> recently did my state start allowing self-service gas), and I've often seen
> people from out of state complain when they come here and find out they
> couldn't pump their own gas. But they don't like checking their own
> groceries?

i love doing self checkout and packing my own groceries. twice this year when
i had to use a regular checkout they forgot to put the items in my cart.
this is with a checkout person bagging AND a bagger. i had to go back inside
for my booze. then another bag just got left behind in the turnstyle bagger thing. i work nights so i zone out when they do it because i've probably been up 18 hrs. Am i required to supervise?

and in my state we do self pump but there's some places that have the service
also. you have to pay more. the only benefit is you dont get the gas smell on your hand but i haven't had a pump do that to me in a while.

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Re: Re: Internet
By: MRO to JaXson on Sun Dec 17 2023 06:17 am

> i love self check out. now they dont have enough self checkout lines open.
> i just think we should get a discount for using it.

Seriously, self check is great. Go up, scan shit, pay, get the fuck out. Don't have to (usually) talk to anyone, and I'm far faster than the doesn't-get-paid-enough-for-this-bullshit cashier.
_____
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Hello Nightfox!

** On Saturday 16.12.23 - 18:07, Nightfox wrote to JaXson:

El>>> The Internet ruined everything. :-( J/K

Ja>> Nah .. self check out did though.

N> One thing I've wondered about - People complain because
N> they don't like self-checkouts at the store, yet people
N> like to pump their own gas for their car and often don't
N> like needing a gas station attendant. Seems a bit
N> contradictory.

Pumping gas is a one-product thing. Requires a few steps.

Whereas, checking out cartful of things is multi-step and takes
more fiddling around - such as identifying the locations of the
barcodes or entering them manually, etc..

N> often seen people from out of state complain when they come
N> here and find out they couldn't pump their own gas. But
N> they don't like checking their own groceries?

See above.

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Re: Re: Internet
By: Phigan to Nightfox on Sat Dec 16 2023 11:42 pm

>> self-checkouts at the store, yet people like to pump their own gas for

Ph> Yeh, I haven't seen anyone complain about someone else pumping their gas,
Ph> unless they were being charged more to do it. Then again, I don't live in
Ph> Oregon :). Been there once, though! Didn't mind letting someone else fill
Ph> 'er up. Back in the day, we had a full service option in my state. That
Ph> went away, though, because who wants to pay more for gas? People with
Ph> those jobs here weren't that careful anyway, I don't think.

With gas prices varying so widely (even between 2 gas stations down the street from each other), I think it's hard to even determine if you're really paying more for that. I live within driving distance from Washington State (which is all self-service for gas), and their gas prices are pretty much on par with Oregon gas prices.

I've heard New Jersey also doesn't allow self-service gas (and is now the only US state that doesn't, now that Oregon allows it).

Ph> Personally, I don't use self-checkout because I'm not a fan of machines
Ph> replacing our workforce... or having ME replace the workforce! I'll let
Ph> another person check me out. That's one more job for them and possibly one
Ph> more available job elsewhere for someone like me.

I'm not a big fan of replacing the workforce either. And that's one argument people here have had about gas station attendants - They're jobs people have where they're earning money, and allowing self-service gas would mean elimination of jobs.

Nightfox

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Re: Internet
By: Ogg to Nightfox on Sun Dec 17 2023 09:16 am

>
> Whereas, checking out cartful of things is multi-step and takes
> more fiddling around - such as identifying the locations of the
> barcodes or entering them manually, etc..
>

are you saying that scanning barcodes is hard? because i'm literally better at checking out my own stuff than someone that's done it in a grocery store
for years.

I haven't seen anybody have to type in a barcode manually for like 25 years, i'm not even sure if it's possible anymore with the register software they use.
they just choose a generic item usually.
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-=> Nightfox wrote to JaXson <=-

Ni> One thing I've wondered about - People complain because they don't like
Ni> self-checkouts at the store, yet people like to pump their own gas for
Ni> their car and often don't like needing a gas station attendant. Seems
Ni> a bit contradictory.

Full serve used to cost around 10 cents a gallon more in states that
offered both. If self-checkout gives me a discount, sure, I'll do your
job for you!

There was a gas station near one town over when I grew up. Full-service
was fading as it was not much more than someone putting the nozzle in
your car.

This place had guys wearing coveralls with their names on them, they
would check your tires, your oil, top off your radiator and washer
fluid, and wash *all* of your windows with towels and a spray bottle
instead of a squeegee. We'd go there before taking a girl out on a
date...

.... Feed the recording back out of the medium
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-=> Phigan wrote to Nightfox <=-

Ph> Personally, I don't use self-checkout because I'm not a fan of machines
Ph> replacing our workforce... or having ME replace the workforce! I'll let
Ph> another person check me out. That's one more job for them and possibly
Ph> one more available job elsewhere for someone like me.

I was in Italy this summer. At the little corner stores, they'd scan
your items, but then leave them at the bottom of the conveyor and look
at you strangely when you asked for a bag. They'd sort of pull off one
of those thin plastic bags that most US states have banned, and have
you bag away.

My italian wasn't great, I may have been asking for something else and
not known.

.... Find a safe part and use it as an anchor
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-=> Ogg wrote to Nightfox <=-

Og> Pumping gas is a one-product thing. Requires a few steps.

Og> Whereas, checking out cartful of things is multi-step and takes
Og> more fiddling around - such as identifying the locations of the
Og> barcodes or entering them manually, etc..

And, then, having a "loss control specialist" look through your items
and possibly detain you for shoplifting, justified or otherwise.

.... The oceans of Aquaria are burning.
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-=> Nightfox wrote to Phigan <=-

Ni> I'm not a big fan of replacing the workforce either. And that's one
Ni> argument people here have had about gas station attendants - They're
Ni> jobs people have where they're earning money, and allowing self-service
Ni> gas would mean elimination of jobs.

Yeah, in self-service states, Big Oil has lobbied for restrictions
around ADA requirements. Gas stations used to be required to pump gas
for people with handicapped placards on request. Now, I notice many of
the stations with a sign saying that because of staffing limitations,
the ADA requirement doesn't apply, with some link to the exemption for
single-employee stations.

Anything to save a buck.

.... Emphasize the flaws
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Re: Re: Internet
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Phigan on Sun Dec 17 2023 07:41 am

> at you strangely when you asked for a bag. They'd sort of pull off one
> of those thin plastic bags that most US states have banned, and have
> you bag away.
>

US states banned plastic bags at grocery stores? that's news to me.
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-=> poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Phigan <=-

Ph> Personally, I don't use self-checkout because I'm not a fan of machines
Ph> replacing our workforce... or having ME replace the workforce! I'll let
Ph> another person check me out. That's one more job for them and possibly
Ph> one more available job elsewhere for someone like me.

pF> I was in Italy this summer. At the little corner stores, they'd
pF> scan your items, but then leave them at the bottom of the conveyor
pF> and look at you strangely when you asked for a bag. They'd sort of pull
pF> off one of those thin plastic bags that most US states have banned, and
pF> have you bag away.

I was in Italy a couple of months ago, and had the same experience. I
guess they expect you to just gather all the items up and carry them
loosely, which doesn't work if it's 8-10 items. Eventually I got them
to understand that I wanted a bag, and they were happy to *sell* me a
couple of plastic bags. The bags were quite sturdy and cheap, but kind
of a strange process. A reminder that there are other ways than what we
know and are used to.

.... I was on a roll till I slipped on the butter.
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Re: Re: Internet
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Sun Dec 17 2023 07:39 am

Ni>> One thing I've wondered about - People complain because they don't like
Ni>> self-checkouts at the store, yet people like to pump their own gas for
Ni>> their car and often don't like needing a gas station attendant. Seems a
Ni>> bit contradictory.

PF> Full serve used to cost around 10 cents a gallon more in states that
PF> offered both. If self-checkout gives me a discount, sure, I'll do your job
PF> for you!

That's a good point - I don't know why there isn't a discount for using self-checkout at grocery stores.

Also, for gas stations, most of the gas statiosn here have attendants but it isn't full-service. They usually just pump your gas for you and that's it. They used to often clean your windshield with a squeegee, but most don't even do that anymore.

Also, gas prices vary so much, that it's hard to tell how much extra they'd charge for having attendants. I live not too far from the border of Washington State (where gas is self-service), and when I've driven into Vancouver WA, the gas prices there seem about the same as in Oregon.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Internet
By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Dec 18 2023 10:25 am

>> at you strangely when you asked for a bag. They'd sort of pull off one of
>> those thin plastic bags that most US states have banned, and have you bag
>> away.

MR> US states banned plastic bags at grocery stores? that's news to me.

You hadn't heard about that? It was big in the news several years ago. I think California did, and then Oregon did about 3 or 4 years ago. They're not totally banned though, it's just that now, stores are mandated by law to charge you 10 cents per bag at checkout (even for paper bags), to encourage people to buy & use re-usable grocery bags.

And it's only for grocery bags at checkout. Stores still have plastic bags for vegetables in the produce section and for items in other sections, and those are still free. I'm not sure how it makes sense.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Internet
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Phigan on Sun Dec 17 2023 07:41 am

> I was in Italy this summer. At the little corner stores, they'd scan
> your items, but then leave them at the bottom of the conveyor and look
> at you strangely when you asked for a bag. They'd sort of pull off one
> of those thin plastic bags that most US states have banned, and have
> you bag away.

"This is the way"...across much of Europe, cashier scans the products and you
bag as they do; preferably in to a bag you've brought with you. Depending on
which country you're in there may be a tax on plastic bags this means you
usually pay a small amount for the ones you use from the store or you buy a
more durable bag at the checkout for a bit more. The advantage of the more
durable bag is when it falls apart you can take it back to the store where they
will exchange it for another new bag and recycle old one.

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Re: Re: Internet
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Ogg on Mon Dec 18 2023 08:02 am

> -=> Ogg wrote to Nightfox <=-
>
> Og> Pumping gas is a one-product thing. Requires a few steps.
>
> Og> Whereas, checking out cartful of things is multi-step and takes
> Og> more fiddling around - such as identifying the locations of the
> Og> barcodes or entering them manually, etc..
>
> And, then, having a "loss control specialist" look through your items
> and possibly detain you for shoplifting, justified or otherwise.
>
>

at the machines i use the machine takes a photo and they review it.
they dont give you a shakedown.
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Re: Re: Internet
By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Dec 18 2023 11:53 am

> MR> US states banned plastic bags at grocery stores? that's news to me.
>
> You hadn't heard about that? It was big in the news several years ago. I
> think California did, and then Oregon did about 3 or 4 years ago. They're
> not totally banned though, it's just that now, stores are mandated by law to
> charge you 10 cents per bag at checkout (even for paper bags), to encourage
> people to buy & use re-usable grocery bags.

i heard something about it but i didn't know they followed through.
i used to travel across the usa every year and i never experienced the no plastic bags during my stops.

i'm not surprised california and oregon did something.
> And it's only for grocery bags at checkout. Stores still have plastic bags
> for vegetables in the produce section and for items in other sections, and
> those are still free. I'm not sure how it makes sense.
>

absolutely does not make sense.
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-=> Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-

MR> US states banned plastic bags at grocery stores? that's news to me.

Ni> You hadn't heard about that? It was big in the news several
Ni> years ago. I think California did, and then Oregon did about 3
Ni> or 4 years ago. They're not totally banned though, it's just
Ni> that now, stores are mandated by law to charge you 10 cents per
Ni> bag at checkout (even for paper bags), to encourage people to buy
Ni> & use re-usable grocery bags.

It's news to me as well, and is definitely NOT the case here in Florida.
Plastic is still the norm, and free.

Might be a red-state / blue-state thing, I suspect.

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Re: Re: Internet
By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Dec 18 2023 05:50 pm

MR> i heard something about it but i didn't know they followed through. i used
MR> to travel across the usa every year and i never experienced the no plastic
MR> bags during my stops.

MR> i'm not surprised california and oregon did something.

In the end, they didn't totally ban the plastic bags; they just charge for them now. Also, they've been offering more sturdy plastic bags that you could probably use multiple times.

I'm pretty sure stores even charge for paper bags. They just want you to bring your own re-usable bags.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Internet
By: Nightfox to MRO on Mon Dec 18 2023 05:58 pm

> Re: Re: Internet
> By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Dec 18 2023 05:50 pm
>
> MR> i heard something about it but i didn't know they followed through. i
> MR> used to travel across the usa every year and i never experienced the no
> MR> plastic bags during my stops.
>
> MR> i'm not surprised california and oregon did something.
>
> In the end, they didn't totally ban the plastic bags; they just charge for
> them now. Also, they've been offering more sturdy plastic bags that you
> could probably use multiple times.
>
> I'm pretty sure stores even charge for paper bags. They just want you to
> bring your own re-usable bags.
>
> Nightfox

are they being 'environmental' or are they just finding a new way
to get money from you.

these walmart, etc style bags fall apart totally after a few years. they are designed this way for environmental reasons. where does the money they charge you go to? goes it go towards cleaning the ocean? i bet not but it should be.
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>I haven't seen anybody have to type in a barcode manually for like 25 years, i'
> not even sure if it's possible anymore with the register software they use.
>they just choose a generic item usually.

I've seen them do it. It has to be done by the person watching the
self-check area (or another cashier) as they have to go into some screens
that the customer won't have access to. They usually have to scan their
badge to get those screens to come up.

I have not seen it often, but they can do it.

* SLMR 2.1a * A crucifix? Oy vey, have you got the wrong vampire!

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> This place had guys wearing coveralls with their names on them, they
> would check your tires, your oil, top off your radiator and washer
> fluid, and wash *all* of your windows with towels and a spray bottle
> instead of a squeegee. We'd go there before taking a girl out on a
> date...

In my area, most of that had faded out by the time I was old enough to
drive. When I was younger, and a passenger in my parent's cars (1970's and
early 80's) I can still remember that the "name brand" places like Chevron,
Exxon, etc., still did that. The convenience stores had not yet put those
places out of business.

* SLMR 2.1a * ...Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, Mickey, Goofey...

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