"Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'" wrote:

> Why have we forgotten basic (n)etiquetteon on Social Media? Maybe Penny
> Arcade's G.I.F.T. is the reason... :-/

Because the Internet is in Eternal September.

> I guess it is time to sign up for AtariAge or some other service ...

I hear you, but I truly hope people can promote CSA2. I've been on CSA2 since 2016, I think. I have received code soulutions via this forum that I honestly am not sure people would be willing to post to the "big www". I don't think, for example, that the new ProDOS conversions will likely be announced on http. I guess I could be wrong about that.

"Steve Nickolas" wrote:

> That is, if Nutari doesn't decide they're going to rejig it into a
> specific to tooting their own horn and get rid of all the non-Atari
> stuff. (I'm fully expecting that to happen *eventually*)...

I'm with you on that one.

May I ask what system you used to post? Here on my IIgs your post included a bunch of stuff about MIME conversions, and it made me curious about how others might be connecting.

Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Dec 2023, Kent Dickey wrote:
>
>> In article <mmphosis-1702663523@macgui.com>,
>> mmphosis <mmphosis@macgui.com> wrote:
>>> I will continue to post on USENET.
>>>
>>> https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=302149" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=302149
>>>
>>> and elsewhere ...
>>
>> I'm just pointing out clearly that macgui.com lets anyone read
>> comp.sys.apple2 (and some other groups) using a web-browser at:
>> https://macgui.com/usenet/ and it says by creating an account
>> there, you can post as well (I've not done this though). This might
>> be a reasonable fit for apple 2 folks using google groups.
>>
>> Kent
>>
>
> It's my Plan B for when Eternal September hacks up a hairball.
>
> -uso.

You'll need a Plan C in that event, because Mac GUI uses Eternal-September
for NNTP access.

:-0

On Sun, 17 Dec 2023, TRS-90 wrote:

> "Steve Nickolas" wrote:
>
>> That is, if Nutari doesn't decide they're going to rejig it into a
>> specific to tooting their own horn and get rid of all the non-Atari
>> stuff. (I'm fully expecting that to happen *eventually*)...
>
> I'm with you on that one.
>
> May I ask what system you used to post? Here on my IIgs your post
> included a bunch of stuff about MIME conversions, and it made me curious
> about how others might be connecting.
>
Debian, with Alpine. (And not exactly the most up-to-date Debian, since
I've set up the machine and pretty much left it to its own devices.)

-uso.

On Mon, 18 Dec 2023, D Finnigan wrote:

> Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Dec 2023, Kent Dickey wrote:
>>
>>> In article <mmphosis-1702663523@macgui.com>,
>>> mmphosis <mmphosis@macgui.com> wrote:
>>>> I will continue to post on USENET.
>>>>
>>>> https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=302149" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=302149
>>>>
>>>> and elsewhere ...
>>>
>>> I'm just pointing out clearly that macgui.com lets anyone read
>>> comp.sys.apple2 (and some other groups) using a web-browser at:
>>> https://macgui.com/usenet/ and it says by creating an account
>>> there, you can post as well (I've not done this though). This might
>>> be a reasonable fit for apple 2 folks using google groups.
>>>
>>> Kent
>>>
>>
>> It's my Plan B for when Eternal September hacks up a hairball.
>>
>> -uso.
>
> You'll need a Plan C in that event, because Mac GUI uses Eternal-September
> for NNTP access.
>
> :-0
>

Yeah, but it'll have downloaded new messages already.

-uso.

In article <ulgg33$1onmo$1@dont-email.me>,
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>On 2023-12-15 00:41:31 +0000, TRS-90 said:
>>>
>>> That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.
>>
>> That's a polite way of putting it.
>>
>> I think this could kill the csa2 groups. This sucks. For me at least,
>> Google Groups was how I found CSA2 in the first place, and I imagine
>> that is the same for many. So now new-commers won't even be able to
>> find it?
>
>Google Groups has always been an extremely crap way to read Usenet, as
>well as a source of tons of tolling morons. Anyone with sense gets a
>Usenet provider service (there are free ones) and a proper newsreader
>app.

....not to mention the recent crapflood of spam arriving via Google Groups.
It's gotten bad enough that I'm considering switching back to trn from tin
(got tin working under a really old Debian version in a Docker container,
since it won't easily compile on current systems) so that I can use this
incantation in ~/News/KILL:

/Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com/h:j

It slows down newsgroup loading, but it's effective at killing the
crapflood.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

In article <uln975$317mc$1@dont-email.me>,
Jeff Blakeney <CUTjeffrey_blakeney@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>I would probably be okay with web based message boards if they could
>write them to work like earlier systems like usenet and BBS boards.
>Having unread messages clearly marked and easily accessed. "Offline"
>reading would also be wonderful. Being able to grab all new messages at
>once and read and reply at my leisure and then upload the replies either
>immediately or in a bunch at once.

If RSS feeds are available on a given site, you can use those in a feed
reader to track topics with new posts.

I use a feed reader to follow a bunch of websites, but haven't tried using
it with any of the forums with Apple II content. On a whim, I tried looking
up the AtariAge RSS feeds and found that if you replace the trailing slash
in a section (?) URL with ".xml", you'll get a feed. For instance, this is
the Apple II section:

https://forums.atariage.com/forum/158-apple-ii-computers/

and this is the feed:

https://forums.atariage.com/forum/158-apple-ii-computers.xml

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

In article <uln975$317mc$1@dont-email.me>,
Jeff Blakeney <CUTjeffrey_blakeney@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>I would probably be okay with web based message boards if they could
>write them to work like earlier systems like usenet and BBS boards.
>Having unread messages clearly marked and easily accessed. "Offline"
>reading would also be wonderful. Being able to grab all new messages at
>once and read and reply at my leisure and then upload the replies either
>immediately or in a bunch at once.

If RSS feeds are available on a given site, you can use those in a feed
reader to track topics with new posts.

I use a feed reader to follow a bunch of websites, but haven't tried using
it with any of the forums with Apple II content. On a whim, I tried looking
up the AtariAge RSS feeds and found that if you replace the trailing slash
in a section (?) URL with ".xml", you'll get a feed. For instance, this is
the Apple II section:

https://forums.atariage.com/forum/158-apple-ii-computers/

and this is the feed:

https://forums.atariage.com/forum/158-apple-ii-computers.xml

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

On 2023-12-18 3:21 p.m., Scott Alfter wrote:
> If RSS feeds are available on a given site, you can use those in a feed
> reader to track topics with new posts.

I vaguely remember trying RSS feeds when they first came into being but
I know I didn't continue using them. Probably because they didn't work
the way I would like. However, things may have changed since then so I
might have to give them another look. That might make it easier to read
stuff but I would probably still have to manually connect to post replies.

I'm pretty sure the Facebook groups, which were quite active when I was
using them, will not have RSS feeds.

mmphosis <mmphosis@macgui.com> wrote:
> I will continue to post on USENET.
>
> https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=302149
>
> and elsewhere ...
>
> Forums
> https://forums.atariage.com/forum/158-apple-ii-computers/ * thanks to "I am
> Rob"
> https://www.applefritter.com/forum/84
> https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?forums/apple-i-lisa.27/
> https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?forums/early-apple-i-etc.32/
> https://old.reddit.com/r/apple2/
>
> In Print!
> https://juiced.gs/
>
> Podcasts
> https://rcrpodcast.com/
> https://www.open-apple.net/
> https://monsterfeet.com/1mhz/
>
> Community
> https://joinmastodon.org/servers * for example:
> https://techtoots.com/tags/appleii
> https://apple2.gs/communities.php
> https://a2central.com/resources/community/
>
> Other
> https://www.kansasfest.org/
> http://www.textfiles.com/apple/
> http://www.textfiles.com/apple/THELAMP/
> https://www.apl2bits.net/
> https://apple2online.com/
> http://www.woz.org/
>
> Any others?

Good list. Reminds me that there are other pockets that I don’t frequent.

There’s two major ones missing though.

There are lots of groups on Facebook but if you’re not there already I
certainly don’t suggest that it is something to start just for Apple Ii
content. The best should be found elsewhere and the rest you won’t miss.

I do however highly recommend the A2 Infinitum Slack space
http://apple2.gs/slack

There are channels to follow and chronological content and searching and
threads (which don’t get used enough) - but it is possible to keep up and
catch up.
There’s a bestof channel which in theory gets cross posts into interesting
threads so if you wanted to see what you’ve missed up until now you could
start there.

I personally baulk at contributing apple 2 information to a site with Atari
in the domain name. That just seems misplaced.

Regards
Andrew

> fadden wrote:
> "Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google
Groups (at groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups,
subscribe to Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can
continue to view and search for historical Usenet content posted
before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."
>
> That might put a damper on the viability of
csa2/cea2/csa2p.

Many of use prefer to use web based front ends
instead of newsreader/nntp server access. Fortunately there are
still a few that carry the group. If yours doesn't, I'm sure they
will add it - just ask.

This is a response to the post seen at:
http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=657373884#657373884

> fadden wrote:
> "Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google
Groups (at groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups,
subscribe to Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can
continue to view and search for historical Usenet content posted
before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."
>
> That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.

Did a little digging and found the culprit of the mass spamming on
Google Groups is using some service called "DeepLeo" to do
their spamming and automated article writing. Found a DeepLeo on
Github and seems to be some sort of interface with ChatGPT

It was only a matter of time before that resource was utilized for
that type of bad activity.

This is a response to the post seen at:
http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=657373884#657373884

On 12/19/2023 10:43 AM, Andrew Roughan wrote:
> I personally baulk at contributing apple 2 information to a site with Atari
> in the domain name. That just seems misplaced.

There's a musical tour right now with Def Leppard, Journey, and Steve
Miller Band. It's unlikely these would have been touring together back
in the day. If you wait long enough it all gets rolled together. :-)

In article <ulscpj$3et2$1@dont-email.me>,
Jeff Blakeney <CUTjeffrey_blakeney@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>On 2023-12-18 3:21 p.m., Scott Alfter wrote:
>> If RSS feeds are available on a given site, you can use those in a feed
>> reader to track topics with new posts.
>
>I vaguely remember trying RSS feeds when they first came into being but
>I know I didn't continue using them. Probably because they didn't work
>the way I would like.

Some sites return the entire article at a link, while others only return a
summary. I knocked together a script that somewhat helps with the latter,
but malformed HTML can confuse it, leading to parts of the article not being
included.

>I'm pretty sure the Facebook groups, which were quite active when I was
>using them, will not have RSS feeds.

Definitely not. They'd prefer you never ventured outside their walled
garden.

--
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Andrew Roughan <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> mmphosis <mmphosis@macgui.com> wrote:
>
> I do however highly recommend the A2 Infinitum Slack space
> http://apple2.gs/slack
>
> There are channels to follow and chronological content and searching and
> threads (which don’t get used enough) - but it is possible to keep up and
> catch up.
> There’s a bestof channel which in theory gets cross posts into interesting
> threads so if you wanted to see what you’ve missed up until now you could
> start there.

I thought that this may stir some interest in the Slack space, but it does
not appear to have enticed anyone. Which is perplexing when I tried to give
it a great wrap.

Regards
Andrew

On 2023-12-26 8:00 p.m., Andrew Roughan wrote:
> Andrew Roughan <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> mmphosis <mmphosis@macgui.com> wrote:
>>
>> I do however highly recommend the A2 Infinitum Slack space
>> http://apple2.gs/slack
>>
>> There are channels to follow and chronological content and
>> searching and threads (which don’t get used enough) - but it is
>> possible to keep up and catch up. There’s a bestof channel which in
>> theory gets cross posts into interesting threads so if you wanted
>> to see what you’ve missed up until now you could start there.
>
> I thought that this may stir some interest in the Slack space, but it
> does not appear to have enticed anyone. Which is perplexing when I
> tried to give it a great wrap.

I'm pretty sure I looked into Slack when people first started using it
for Apple II content but wasn't impressed. I just clicked the link in
the post but I can't even see what it is like without giving them an
e-mail address. I do have some junk addresses but as I really haven't
liked any web based system I've seen so far, I'm not sure it is worth
the bother.

> I'm pretty sure I looked into Slack when people first started using it
> for Apple II content but wasn't impressed.

I personally feel that an Apple II forum should be reachable via an Apple II. I'm not sure if that makes me a "purist" or more likely an "idiot". I've tried Slack, and yes, I know things like that have very good interaction. 8-Bit Guy very politely clued me in to some of the web-based forums and my questions certainly did get answered by very knowledgable persons (in my case Nox Archaist in A2Desktop questions).

But I'm still an aging idiot, and prefer non-web anything when it comes to Apple II stuff. Yes, I need the IIgs for Usenet, but on IIe the Telnet sites are really good ( I admit that the time limitations are annoying).

I just think that Usenet and Telnet are very viable still.

Thanks for reading,

Matt

Jeff Blakeney wrote:
>
> but as I really haven't
> liked any web based system I've seen so far, I'm not sure it is worth
> the bother.
>

Which is unfortunate, because as I discovered just a few years ago, it's
where most all the Apple II discussion activity has gone from csa2.

There's a lot of useful stuff going on in this Slack group, but it's like an
IRC where you have to scroll back a lot to read older messages if you want
to catch up.

--
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

Andrew Roughan <no_email@invalid.invalid> writes:

> Andrew Roughan <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> mmphosis <mmphosis@macgui.com> wrote:
>>
>> I do however highly recommend the A2 Infinitum Slack space
>> http://apple2.gs/slack
>>
>> There are channels to follow and chronological content and searching and
>> threads (which don’t get used enough) - but it is possible to keep up and
>> catch up.
>> There’s a bestof channel which in theory gets cross posts into interesting
>> threads so if you wanted to see what you’ve missed up until now you could
>> start there.
>
> I thought that this may stir some interest in the Slack space, but it does
> not appear to have enticed anyone. Which is perplexing when I tried to give
> it a great wrap.

I went to the site. No HTTPS certificate, for one thing. Tried to sign
up and got an error: "Error:Error: certificate has expired". Sounds
like the same problem in two forms.

I'd give it a try if I could get in.

--
Jerry jerry+a2 at jpen.ca

Hi,

> Which is unfortunate, because as I discovered just a few years ago, it's
> where most all the Apple II discussion activity has gone from csa2.

That's THE point. It doesn't matter if I personally like of dislike Slack.
It's where "it" happens today.

Regards,
Oliver

In article <yubv88hlbhl.fsf@jpen.ca>, Jerry Penner <jerry+a2@jpen.ca> wrote:
>Andrew Roughan <no_email@invalid.invalid> writes:
>
>> Andrew Roughan <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> mmphosis <mmphosis@macgui.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I do however highly recommend the A2 Infinitum Slack space
>>> http://apple2.gs/slack
>>>
>>> There are channels to follow and chronological content and searching and
>>> threads (which don’t get used enough) - but it is possible to keep up and
>>> catch up.
>>> There’s a bestof channel which in theory gets cross posts into
>interesting
>>> threads so if you wanted to see what you’ve missed up until now you could
>>> start there.
>>
>> I thought that this may stir some interest in the Slack space, but it does
>> not appear to have enticed anyone. Which is perplexing when I tried to give
>> it a great wrap.
>
>I went to the site. No HTTPS certificate, for one thing. Tried to sign
>up and got an error: "Error:Error: certificate has expired". Sounds
>like the same problem in two forms.

No certificate errors here (must've been upgraded), but demanding an email
address right off the bat is a turn-off.

--
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

On Dec 29, 2023 at 12:13:54 PM EST, "Scott Alfter" <Scott Alfter> wrote:

> In article <yubv88hlbhl.fsf@jpen.ca>, Jerry Penner <jerry+a2@jpen.ca> wrote:
>> Andrew Roughan <no_email@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> Andrew Roughan <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> mmphosis <mmphosis@macgui.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I do however highly recommend the A2 Infinitum Slack space
>>>> http://apple2.gs/slack
>>>>
>>>> There are channels to follow and chronological content and searching and
>>>> threads (which don’t get used enough) - but it is possible to keep up and
>>>> catch up.
>>>> There’s a bestof channel which in theory gets cross posts into
>> interesting
>>>> threads so if you wanted to see what you’ve missed up until now you could
>>>> start there.
>>>
>>> I thought that this may stir some interest in the Slack space, but it does
>>> not appear to have enticed anyone. Which is perplexing when I tried to give
>>> it a great wrap.
>>
>> I went to the site. No HTTPS certificate, for one thing. Tried to sign
>> up and got an error: "Error:Error: certificate has expired". Sounds
>> like the same problem in two forms.
>
> No certificate errors here (must've been upgraded), but demanding an email
> address right off the bat is a turn-off.

I get the same error message trying with 4 different browsers. I've been
trying to access slack for over a month.

In article <umft04$3li8f$1@dont-email.me>,
Andrew Roughan <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>Andrew Roughan <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> mmphosis <mmphosis@macgui.com> wrote:
>>
>> I do however highly recommend the A2 Infinitum Slack space
>> http://apple2.gs/slack
>>
>> There are channels to follow and chronological content and searching and
>> threads (which don’t get used enough) - but it is possible to keep up and
>> catch up.
>> There’s a bestof channel which in theory gets cross posts into interesting
>> threads so if you wanted to see what you’ve missed up until now you could
>> start there.
>
>I thought that this may stir some interest in the Slack space, but it does
>not appear to have enticed anyone. Which is perplexing when I tried to give
>it a great wrap.
>
>Regards
>Andrew

I can confirm what others are saying and that http://apple2.gs/slack is
not working. It asks for an email address, and then goes to an error page
saying "Error:Error: certificate has expired" at apple2.gs:3000/invite.

Web stuff interfacing to Slack is a lot of work, and it breaks easily,
so we need to be patient while this is resolved. This apple2.gs/slack site
I think is meant to be a way to get to a "Slack Invite page", which I think
can be accomplished with a longer invite that looks like:
https://join.slack.com/t/apple2infinitum/..../. Inviting people to slack
using Slack's methods invites one person at a time manually. This apple2.gs
site is trying to make this invite process simpler, so you can enter your
own email address and receive a Slack invite. It is not where the
Apple2infinitum is hosted. This apple2.gs/slack page is a plain page
asking for your email address--since that's all it's trying to do.

The Apple2infinitum slack gets 20+ posts per day or so, of generally very
high quality, divided over about 30 channels (or topics). If you have
any interest in Apple II topics, you should join. I view it using the
Slack browser interface, so any modern web browser is fine.

For anyone: If you email me, I can send you an invite, since anyone already
on apple2infinitum can invite others. I do not run the site, I'm just a
user (reasonably happy, but I will never "love" Slack).

Kent

On Fri, 29 Dec 2023 17:35:03 -0000 (UTC)
You're Kidding <yk@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >> I went to the site. No HTTPS certificate, for one thing. Tried
> >> to sign up and got an error: "Error:Error: certificate has
> >> expired". Sounds like the same problem in two forms.
> >
> > No certificate errors here (must've been upgraded), but demanding
> > an email address right off the bat is a turn-off.
>
> I get the same error message trying with 4 different browsers. I've
> been trying to access slack for over a month.

At http://apple2.gs:3000/invite I get:

Error:Error: certificate has expired

The the first error is an error, so I'm not sure what the real error
is. Haha

In article <20231230122350.1f7ee9cc@smilodon-gracilis>,
Bill Chatfield <bill_chatfield@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 29 Dec 2023 17:35:03 -0000 (UTC)
>You're Kidding <yk@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> >> I went to the site. No HTTPS certificate, for one thing. Tried
>> >> to sign up and got an error: "Error:Error: certificate has
>> >> expired". Sounds like the same problem in two forms.
>> >
>> > No certificate errors here (must've been upgraded), but demanding
>> > an email address right off the bat is a turn-off.
>>
>> I get the same error message trying with 4 different browsers. I've
>> been trying to access slack for over a month.
>
>At http://apple2.gs:3000/invite I get:
>
> Error:Error: certificate has expired
>
>The the first error is an error, so I'm not sure what the real error
>is. Haha

The http://apple2.gs/slack site has now been fixed by Dagen Brock. Try
to join again.

Kent