"Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups (at groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups, subscribe to Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can continue to view and search for historical Usenet content posted before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."

That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.

> That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.

That's a polite way of putting it.

I think this could kill the csa2 groups. This sucks. For me at least, Google Groups was how I found CSA2 in the first place, and I imagine that is the same for many. So now new-commers won't even be able to find it?

> "Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups (at groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups, subscribe to Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can continue to view and search for historical Usenet content posted before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."
>
> That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.

Then I would like to invite everyone to meet me over on Atariage. It is a way better forum anyways that allows one to post files, pictures and videos..
And a way better editor for entering posts. No checking off that you are not a bot. And the best of all, NO SPAM.

https://forums.atariage.com/forum/158-apple-ii-computers

On 2023-12-15 00:41:31 +0000, TRS-90 said:
>>
>> That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.
>
> That's a polite way of putting it.
>
> I think this could kill the csa2 groups. This sucks. For me at least,
> Google Groups was how I found CSA2 in the first place, and I imagine
> that is the same for many. So now new-commers won't even be able to
> find it?

Google Groups has always been an extremely crap way to read Usenet, as
well as a source of tons of tolling morons. Anyone with sense gets a
Usenet provider service (there are free ones) and a proper newsreader
app.

On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 7:10:32 PM UTC-8, Your Name wrote:
> Google Groups has always been an extremely crap way to read Usenet, as
> well as a source of tons of tolling morons. Anyone with sense gets a
> Usenet provider service (there are free ones) and a proper newsreader
> app.

The problem isn't that people who want to read comp.sys.apple2 won't be able to. The problem is that people who have no idea what comp.sys.apple2 is will no longer have a zero-barrier way to access it. They need to find an app and a feed provider, which creates a barrier to access that many people won't cross simply because it's inconvenient.

Google Groups made it possible to post a simple URL and say, "comp.sys.apple2 is here, you can read and post easily". I agree that it's not a great way to access Usenet, but it's really convenient.

In article <b5b17e7c-d7e0-42a7-a94b-d427ea7b104bn@googlegroups.com>,
fadden <thefadden@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups (at
> groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups, subscribe to Usenet
> groups, or view new Usenet content. You can continue to view and search for
> historical Usenet content posted before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."
>
> That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.

That's so typical Google - killing services at a whim.

Maybe it's a chance. Let the (nerdy) world know that csa2 exists and how
to connect to it. (from either old or new devices)

I will continue to post on USENET.

https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=302149

and elsewhere ...

Forums
https://forums.atariage.com/forum/158-apple-ii-computers/ * thanks to "I am
Rob"
https://www.applefritter.com/forum/84
https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?forums/apple-i-lisa.27/
https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?forums/early-apple-i-etc.32/
https://old.reddit.com/r/apple2/

In Print!
https://juiced.gs/

Podcasts
https://rcrpodcast.com/
https://www.open-apple.net/
https://monsterfeet.com/1mhz/

Community
https://joinmastodon.org/servers * for example:
https://techtoots.com/tags/appleii
https://apple2.gs/communities.php
https://a2central.com/resources/community/

Other
https://www.kansasfest.org/
http://www.textfiles.com/apple/
http://www.textfiles.com/apple/THELAMP/
https://www.apl2bits.net/
https://apple2online.com/
http://www.woz.org/

Any others?

On 2023-12-15 06:05:33 +0000, fadden said:
> On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 7:10:32 PM UTC-8, Your Name wrote:
>>
>> Google Groups has always been an extremely crap way to read Usenet, as>
>> well as a source of tons of tolling morons. Anyone with sense gets a>
>> Usenet provider service (there are free ones) and a proper newsreader>
>> app.
>
> The problem isn't that people who want to read comp.sys.apple2 won't be
> able to. The problem is that people who have no idea what
> comp.sys.apple2 is will no longer have a zero-barrier way to access it.
> They need to find an app and a feed provider, which creates a barrier
> to access that many people won't cross simply because it's inconvenient.
>
> Google Groups made it possible to post a simple URL and say,
> "comp.sys.apple2 is here, you can read and post easily". I agree that
> it's not a great way to access Usenet, but it's really convenient.

Convenient to access, but disgustingly bad to actually use, which puts
sane people off.

For those who want web brwoser based Usent, there are other ways.
Easynews being one, although it is not free (there is a free trial and
you can get 80% off the price via NewsgroupReviews.com,
<https://www.newsgroupreviews.com/easynews-review.html>

On 2023-12-15 17:02:32 +0000, Sebastian P. said:
> In article <b5b17e7c-d7e0-42a7-a94b-d427ea7b104bn@googlegroups.com>,
> fadden <thefadden@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups (at
>> groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups, subscribe to Usenet
>> groups, or view new Usenet content. You can continue to view and search for
>> historical Usenet content posted before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."
>>
>> That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.
>
> That's so typical Google - killing services at a whim.

Most Internet Service Providers killed off their free Usenet access
years ago on a whim (as well as free email and website space), and yet
continue to charge more and more money for less and less services. :-(

> Maybe it's a chance. Let the (nerdy) world know that csa2 exists and how
> to connect to it. (from either old or new devices)

> That's so typical Google - killing services at a whim.

I read Google's statement on why, and I do understand. Usenet is absolutely full of spam, and the binaries are all basically illegal copies of content. Legitimate content certainly does struggle against the tidal waves of garbage.

> Maybe it's a chance. Let the (nerdy) world know that csa2 exists and how
> to connect to it. (from either old or new devices)

I was thinking that too. Has anyone who uses the other online Apple II sites ever written about "Check out csa2 on Usenet"? I don't believe I've ever seen such a mention. It could be mentioned that EternalSeptember is free, and there are some free clients out there. On my Windows machine I have GrabIt, which is free and works pretty good. Maybe an artice on some popular forum "All About comp.sys.apple2 and How to Participate for Free"

On 12/15/2023 3:31 PM, TRS-90 wrote:
> Maybe an artice on some popular forum "All About comp.sys.apple2 and How to Participate for Free"

Well, let's see if this works.

I signed up for a free account at Eternal September
(https://www.eternal-september.org/), downloaded the free Mozilla
Thunderbird (https://www.thunderbird.net/), and configured it to talk to
ES. It took a bit of poking around to get Thunderbird to ask for a
login and password, but I got there.

(Hit "alt" to make the menu bar visible, then Tools -> Account Settings
-> Server Settings and check "Always request authentication when
connecting to this server". Then restart the app and hit "refresh" in
the newsgroup subscription window, which you get to by right-clicking on
the server entry and selecting "Subscribe...".)

If all goes well, this message will be posted on comp.sys.apple2.

> Well, let's see if this works.
>
> I signed up for a free account at Eternal September
> (https://www.eternal-september.org/), downloaded the free Mozilla
> Thunderbird (https://www.thunderbird.net/), and configured it to talk to
> ES. It took a bit of poking around to get Thunderbird to ask for a
> login and password, but I got there.
>
> (Hit "alt" to make the menu bar visible, then Tools -> Account Settings
> -> Server Settings and check "Always request authentication when
> connecting to this server". Then restart the app and hit "refresh" in
> the newsgroup subscription window, which you get to by right-clicking on
> the server entry and selecting "Subscribe...".)
>
> If all goes well, this message will be posted on comp.sys.apple2.

It is still viewable on Google. :O). They haven't shut the doors yet.

I kind of like FireFox. Any negative attributes about FireFox?

In article <mmphosis-1702663523@macgui.com>,
mmphosis <mmphosis@macgui.com> wrote:
>I will continue to post on USENET.
>
>https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=302149
>
>and elsewhere ...

I'm just pointing out clearly that macgui.com lets anyone read
comp.sys.apple2 (and some other groups) using a web-browser at:
https://macgui.com/usenet/ and it says by creating an account
there, you can post as well (I've not done this though). This might
be a reasonable fit for apple 2 folks using google groups.

Kent

Kent Dickey wrote:
> In article <mmphosis-1702663523@macgui.com>,
> mmphosis <mmphosis@macgui.com> wrote:
>>I will continue to post on USENET.
>>
>>https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=302149" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=302149
>>
>>and elsewhere ...
>
> I'm just pointing out clearly that macgui.com lets anyone read
> comp.sys.apple2 (and some other groups) using a web-browser at:
> https://macgui.com/usenet/ and it says by creating an account
> there, you can post as well (I've not done this though). This might
> be a reasonable fit for apple 2 folks using google groups.
>
> Kent
>

It’s how I read and post to Usenet. :-)
The system works well enough for me, but if others use it and see
opportunities for improvement, my ears are open.

--
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

> I'm just pointing out clearly that macgui.com lets anyone read
> comp.sys.apple2 (and some other groups) using a web-browser at:
> https://macgui.com/usenet/ and it says by creating an account
> there, you can post as well (I've not done this though). This might
> be a reasonable fit for apple 2 folks using google groups.

Yes, could be. I'm just wondering if the people of CSA2 care enough about preserving and continuing the very good place that it is... Honestly, I think it might be one of the last places on Usenet still viable. I know the C64 pages are all spam. I would be willing to spend the time to learn and write about how to make CSA2 accessible to the newly interested, but really what is the audience size? Are there twenty of us users here? Frankly, I don't imagine that new audiences will take the time to do (for example) what I have done and build a IIgs machine to get here. I think the ease of reddit and others via web browser is the new form of communication. I don't like it, but that is what it seems to be. The ending of access from Google Groups is likely the death bell unless someone or someones basically start advertising CSA2 and how to join. And that is very unfortunate, because both CSA2 groups really have a lot to offer that isn't on the www.

fadden <fadden@fadden.com> writes:

> On 12/15/2023 3:31 PM, TRS-90 wrote:
>> Maybe an artice on some popular forum "All About comp.sys.apple2 and How to Participate for Free"
>
> Well, let's see if this works.
>
> I signed up for a free account at Eternal September (https://www.eternal-september.org/),
> downloaded the free Mozilla Thunderbird (https://www.thunderbird.net/), and configured it
> to talk to ES. It took a bit of poking around to get Thunderbird to ask for a
> login and password, but I got there.
>
> (Hit "alt" to make the menu bar visible, then Tools -> Account Settings -> Server Settings
> and check "Always request authentication when connecting to this server". Then restart
> the app and hit "refresh" in the newsgroup subscription window, which you get to by
> right-clicking on the server entry and selecting "Subscribe...".)
>
> If all goes well, this message will be posted on comp.sys.apple2.

It worked.

I've been using eternal september for years, with emacs Gnus.

As has been mentioned, the important thing for comp.sys.apple2 and
related groups to continue to see traffic is to encourage/invite folks
from other online forums to visit. Your description of how you managed
to connect is helpful. NNTP isn't well-known anymore, and there isn't a
protocol guru "across the lab" to ask, like there was back in the days
when I discovered it.

While I know about applefritter and atariage and few other places where
Apple II computing is discussed, I'm sure there are a lot of places I
don't know about. It would be good to know what those are...

--
--
Jerry jerry+a2 at jpen.ca

On Sat, 16 Dec 2023, Kent Dickey wrote:

> In article <mmphosis-1702663523@macgui.com>,
> mmphosis <mmphosis@macgui.com> wrote:
>> I will continue to post on USENET.
>>
>> https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=302149" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=302149
>>
>> and elsewhere ...
>
> I'm just pointing out clearly that macgui.com lets anyone read
> comp.sys.apple2 (and some other groups) using a web-browser at:
> https://macgui.com/usenet/ and it says by creating an account
> there, you can post as well (I've not done this though). This might
> be a reasonable fit for apple 2 folks using google groups.
>
> Kent
>

It's my Plan B for when Eternal September hacks up a hairball.

-uso.

On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 7:06:53 PM UTC-5, fadden wrote:
> "Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups (at groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups, subscribe to Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can continue to view and search for historical Usenet content posted before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."
>
> That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.

Certainly seems like the end of an era doesn't it? Like when all the roundtables and discussion groups closed down on the various online services. I'll admit that I've been tired of wading through all the spam to see new messages lately, so I'm not surprised that Google is finally killing the newsgroups. Hopefully AtariAge will pick up the slack and be a centralized location for Apple II discussion, but I might be a bit biased there. :)

On 2023-12-16 11:49 p.m., TRS-90 wrote:
>> I'm just pointing out clearly that macgui.com lets anyone read
>> comp.sys.apple2 (and some other groups) using a web-browser at:
>> https://macgui.com/usenet/ and it says by creating an account
>> there, you can post as well (I've not done this though). This might
>> be a reasonable fit for apple 2 folks using google groups.
>
> Yes, could be. I'm just wondering if the people of CSA2 care enough
> about preserving and continuing the very good place that it is...
> Honestly, I think it might be one of the last places on Usenet still
> viable. I know the C64 pages are all spam. I would be willing to
> spend the time to learn and write about how to make CSA2 accessible
> to the newly interested, but really what is the audience size? Are
> there twenty of us users here? Frankly, I don't imagine that new
> audiences will take the time to do (for example) what I have done and
> build a IIgs machine to get here. I think the ease of reddit and
> others via web browser is the new form of communication. I don't like
> it, but that is what it seems to be. The ending of access from Google
> Groups is likely the death bell unless someone or someones basically
> start advertising CSA2 and how to join. And that is very unfortunate,
> because both CSA2 groups really have a lot to offer that isn't on the
> www.
I'm of an opposite mind with regard to web based message boards. I
can't stand them (especially reddit; what a horribly designed site). I
was keeping up on the Facebook groups for a while until a few years ago
when Facebook changed their site and made it even harder for me to find
unread posts or replies.

I would probably be okay with web based message boards if they could
write them to work like earlier systems like usenet and BBS boards.
Having unread messages clearly marked and easily accessed. "Offline"
reading would also be wonderful. Being able to grab all new messages at
once and read and reply at my leisure and then upload the replies either
immediately or in a bunch at once.

Unfortunately a lot of the web based message boards include banner ads
so they want people on their sites for as long as possible and loading
page after page. These sites have no motivation to make it easier for
the users.

I could read the messages here using my real or emulated IIgs but I've
been using Thunderbird for a very long time so I just use it with
Eternal September for reading messages here whenever I check my e-mail.

Oh, and just a note, there are five Apple II newsgroups (at least on
Eternal September): comp.emulators.apple2, comp.sys.apple2,
comp.sys.apple2.marketplace, comp.sys.apple2.programmer and
comp.sys.apple2.usergroups.

On Friday, December 15, 2023 at 12:40:39 PM UTC-8, I am Rob wrote:
> Facebook "Apple II enthusiasts" and "Apple IIGS enthusiasts" both have a pretty big following.

I will never use FarceBook (sic.) as long as they disrespect people by profiting off other people's data. (Not saying Google is any better.)

m.

"Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'" wrote:

> I will never use FarceBook (sic.) as long as they disrespect people by
> profiting off other people's data. (Not saying Google is any better.)
>
> m.

Farcebook. That's a pretty good one. I'm actually happy to learn that I'm not the only one who feels that Farcebook is absolute crap.

On 2023-12-17 17:54:32 +0000, TRS-90 said:
> "Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'" wrote:
>>
>> I will never use FarceBook (sic.) as long as they disrespect people by
>> profiting off other people's data. (Not saying Google is any better.)
>>
>> m.
>
> Farcebook. That's a pretty good one. I'm actually happy to learn that
> I'm not the only one who feels that Farcebook is absolute crap.

Farcebook, Twithead (now Ex), Instagrunt, Pinuninterest, DickToc,
YouBoob, etc. ... *all* Social Media is complete garbage. They're badly
designed by greedy companies solely to make money from fools with
massive egos who think other people want to know what inane thing
they're doing now. :-\

"Just say 'No'." :-)

On Sunday, December 17, 2023 at 9:53:49 AM UTC-8, TRS-90 wrote:
> "Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'" wrote:
>
> Farcebook. That's a pretty good one. I'm actually happy to learn that I'm not the only one who feels that Farcebook is absolute crap.

Normally I use the name FecesBook for all the dumb shit people post on it but I was being polite. =P

Another name is FakeBook -- because people's lives are so devoid of any _actual_ meaning they have to get fake sentiments by posting dumb selfies crap to boost their insecurity.

At least it isn't Shitter I mean Twitter -- some people are CONSTANTLY arguing over dumb shit that no one gives a fuck about on _that_ cesspool.

God forbid you ASK an _honest question_ on Reddit before you get down-voted into oblivion by the echo chamber redditards. Seems like the GOOD subs are far and few between.

Why have we forgotten basic (n)etiquetteon on Social Media? Maybe Penny Arcade's G.I.F.T. is the reason... :-/

I guess it is time to sign up for AtariAge or some other service ... Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

m.

On Sun, 17 Dec 2023, TRS-90 wrote:

> "Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'" wrote:
>
>> I will never use FarceBook (sic.) as long as they disrespect people by
>> profiting off other people's data. (Not saying Google is any better.)
>>
>> m.
>
> Farcebook. That's a pretty good one. I'm actually happy to learn that
> I'm not the only one who feels that Farcebook is absolute crap.
>
My jab of choice is Failbook.

-uso.

On Sun, 17 Dec 2023, Tempest wrote:

> On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 7:06:53 PM UTC-5, fadden wrote:
>> "Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups (at
>> groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups, subscribe to
>> Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can continue to view and
>> search for historical Usenet content posted before February 22, 2024 on
>> Google Groups."
>>
>> That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.
>
> Certainly seems like the end of an era doesn't it? Like when all the
> roundtables and discussion groups closed down on the various online
> services. I'll admit that I've been tired of wading through all the
> spam to see new messages lately, so I'm not surprised that Google is
> finally killing the newsgroups. Hopefully AtariAge will pick up the
> slack and be a centralized location for Apple II discussion, but I might
> be a bit biased there. :)
>
That is, if Nutari doesn't decide they're going to rejig it into a forum
specific to tooting their own horn and get rid of all the non-Atari stuff.
(I'm fully expecting that to happen *eventually*, just not making a
prediction on how eventually eventually is, but the second I found out
about that, I dropped the forum like a bad habit.)

-uso.