In article <n2oYI.58230$Kv2.54308@fx47.iad>, RabidHussar
<rabid@huss.ar> wrote:

> > It can be true in one case but cannot be extrapolated to all cases. For
> > Ivermectin the fact is it is not the case. Studies have not found it to
> > be ineffective and using horse wormer or cattle *pour on* is definitely
> > harmful.
>
> Two people who thought your statement was bullshit are Milo Yiannopoulos
> and Joe Rogan, both of which decided to use Ivermectin to treat their
> COVID infections and found success in doing so.

joe rogan did several things, including monoclonal antibodies, which is
one of the most effective treatments if given early enough.

everything else he didn't matter. the ivermectin he supposedly took did
nothing, except make him shit a lot.

> Yiannopoulos said "The
> medication I have to thank is IVERMECTIN. The moment I started taking
> it, recovery was dramatic and immediate. Studies worldwide show that it
> reduces viral load very effectively."

no, they don't show that. see below.

> I trust first-hand experience a lot more than what the media tells us in
> an effort to force us to buy more expensive and less effective medicine.
> If you prefer to get a vaccine, a second jab and then another every five
> months, feel free to do so. However, Ivermectin has been proven to work,
> costs nothing and:

it hasn't been proven to do that, and in fact, has been shown to be
ineffective at best and often making things worse.

it's far better to get vaccinated and not get sick in the first place
than roll the dice and hope for a good outcome.

> Ivermectin: an award-winning drug with expected antiviral activity
> against COVID-19
>
> <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7539925/>

that is about a year old and doesn't say what you think it does.

Despite this promise, the antiviral activity of ivermectin has not
been consistently proven in vivo. While ivermectin's activity against
SARS-CoV-2 is currently under investigation in patients, insufficient
emphasis has been placed on formulation challenges.
....
Despite the challenges faced in developing these drug delivery
carriers, and uncertainty with regard to the efficacy of ivermectin,
it indeed presents promising potential.

'promising potential' is *not* 'we found a cure'.

since then, numerous studies have shown that ivermectin is anywhere
from useless to making things worse.

<https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12879-021-0634
8-5>
Conclusion
Ivermectin had no significant effect on preventing hospitalization of
patients with COVID-19. Patients who received ivermectin required
invasive MVS earlier in their treatment. No significant differences
were observed in any of the other secondary outcomes.

invasive mvs earlier in their treatment was 5 days versus 10 days.
that's not good.

<https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34181716/>
Background: We systematically assessed benefits and harms of the
use of ivermectin (IVM) in COVID-19 patients.
....
Conclusions: In comparison to SOC or placebo, IVM did not reduce
all-cause mortality, length of stay or viral clearance in RCTs in
COVID-19 patients with mostly mild disease. IVM did not have an
effect on AEs or severe AEs. IVM is not a viable option to treat
COVID-19 patients.

<https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/03/ivermectin-doesnt-s
peed-recovery-mild-covid-19-study-shows>
Early administration of the antiparasitic drug ivermectin didn't
significantly shorten time to clinical improvement in 400 adults
mildly ill with COVID-19, a clinical trial today in JAMA finds.

> Hint: the media is lying to you again.

it isn't.

but even if you think it is, you can skip the media and read the actual
clinical studies.

that is, unless you think that all doctors and researchers are also in
on some sort of conspiracy to lie.

On 03/09/2021 13:39, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>
> RabidHussar wrote:
>>
>> On 2021-09-02 7:24 p.m., Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>>
>>> It can be true in one case but cannot be extrapolated to all cases. For
>>> Ivermectin the fact is it is not the case. Studies have not found it to
>>> be ineffective and using horse wormer or cattle *pour on* is definitely
>>> harmful.
>>
>> Two people who thought your statement was bullshit are Milo Yiannopoulos
>> and Joe Rogan, both of which decided to use Ivermectin to treat their
>> COVID infections and found success in doing so. Yiannopoulos said "The
>> medication I have to thank is IVERMECTIN. The moment I started taking
>> it, recovery was dramatic and immediate. Studies worldwide show that it
>> reduces viral load very effectively."

This is completely unscientific, little better, if at all, than hearsay
or pub talk. See below ...

> Right...two giants in the fields of epidemiology and virology. I'm going
> to get my medical advice from them...

LOL!

>> I trust first-hand experience a lot more than what the media tells us in
>> an effort to force us to buy more expensive and less effective medicine.
>> If you prefer to get a vaccine, a second jab and then another every five
>> months, feel free to do so.

However, others' so-called first-hand experience is not your own first
hand experience, and can be warped by all sorts of factors in both the
experiencing and in the later telling. For myself, I wouldn't trust the
above story *AT ALL*, especially as this particular subject is already
befuddled with so much fake news, and the area of medication generally
and self-medication in particular is also befuddled by the placebo effect.

The only way you can find things out and therefore make recommendations
safely for others to follow is through the tried and tested procedures
of randomised control trials (RCTs) with large enough sample sizes, and
that is what is happening at Oxford, whose sample size has now reached
6,183, which is already way bigger than most of the so-called trials
that have been linked to on dodgy websites in this thread, and hopefully
will grow bigger still as time evolves. Whatever they eventually come
to say about Ivermectin will be believable.

>> However, Ivermectin has been proven to work,
>> costs nothing and:
>>
>> Ivermectin: an award-winning drug with expected antiviral activity
>> against COVID-19
>>
>> <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7539925/>

The trouble is that the NIH have changed their advice on many issues
surrounding covid-19, and thus different statements from different times
on their websites are nearly or actually self-contradictory. I've
already linked to contrary advice there.

>> Hint: the media is lying to you again.

No, for the most part, main stream media are not lying. You are when
you claim that.

> Okay, first what works in mice does not always translate to working in
> humans...often not. Next they are doing studies but paper admits that
> the studies are in the early stages and are not conclusive at all.There
> are other recent papers that show Ivermectin is ineffective in human for
> Covid on the NIH site. Meanwhile what IS MOST EFFECTIVE RIGHT NOW is the
> vaccines which aside of immediate availability has two benefits: 1)
> Prevents the majority of infection, hospitalization, transmission and
> death of people, and 2) by preventing the replication of the virus
> prevents the virus from evolving into something even more deadly than it
> already is.
>
> $25 shot is also more cost effective that $$$$$$ in treatment, medicine,
> hospitalization, and possible mortuary costs. That is ignoring the the
> other toll of suffering, lost, and *harm to others* the unvaccinated
> cause. **the worst selfish aspect of all this.

+1 to all that.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 03/09/2021 14:40, RabidHussar wrote:
>
> For my own life, I would much rather use Ivermectin than use a vaccine.
> Of course, it should be noted that long-term use of the drug will cause
> damage to a person's kidneys.

Then you are a fool.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 03/09/2021 04:50, Eric Stevens wrote:
>
> If you put Invermectin in your system it does what it does. If you
> have worms it gets rid of the worms. If you have COVID and have taken
> several other medications you ameliiorate or even get rid of Covid. Of
> course, in all cases, the use of the correct dosage is paramount.

Unproven, however much fake news you have read about it.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 9/3/2021 4:54 AM, RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-02 7:24 p.m., Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>> Scott Alfter wrote:
>>> In article <sgqf7k$11n$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> Jonathan N. Little <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> A Voice in the Wilderness? wrote:
>>>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>>> Ivermectin is an ANIMAL drug used to tread parasitic worms.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's been used in HUMANS for DECADES, and is safer than aspirin.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes true, for the treatment of WORMS. If you have guinea worms then yes,
>>>> if you have Covid virus then no.
>>>
>>> Do you assert that drugs that are developed with one purpose in mind never
>>> find other suitable uses? If so, you would be gravely mistaken. Consider
>>> Viagra as an example:
>>>
>>> https://qz.com/1070732/viagras-famously-surprising-origin-story-is-actually-a-pretty-common-way-to-find-new-drugs/
>>
>> It can be true in one case but cannot be extrapolated to all cases. For
>> Ivermectin the fact is it is not the case. Studies have not found it to
>> be ineffective and using horse wormer or cattle *pour on* is definitely
>> harmful.
>
> Two people who thought your statement was bullshit are Milo Yiannopoulos
> and Joe Rogan, both of which decided to use Ivermectin to treat their
> COVID infections and found success in doing so.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc is not the same as success in doing so.

--
Ken

On 2021-09-03 8:39 a.m., Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> RabidHussar wrote:
>> On 2021-09-02 7:24 p.m., Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>> Scott Alfter wrote:
>>>> In article <sgqf7k$11n$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Jonathan N. Little <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> A Voice in the Wilderness? wrote:
>>>>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ivermectin is an ANIMAL drug used to tread parasitic worms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's been used in HUMANS for DECADES, and is safer than aspirin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes true, for the treatment of WORMS. If you have guinea worms then
>>>>> yes,
>>>>> if you have Covid virus then no.
>>>>
>>>> Do you assert that drugs that are developed with one purpose in mind
>>>> never
>>>> find other suitable uses?  If so, you would be gravely mistaken.
>>>> Consider
>>>> Viagra as an example:
>>>>
>>>> https://qz.com/1070732/viagras-famously-surprising-origin-story-is-actually-a-pretty-common-way-to-find-new-drugs/
>>>>
>>>
>>> It can be true in one case but cannot be extrapolated to all cases. For
>>> Ivermectin the fact is it is not the case. Studies have not found it to
>>> be ineffective and using horse wormer or cattle *pour on* is definitely
>>> harmful.
>>
>> Two people who thought your statement was bullshit are Milo Yiannopoulos
>> and Joe Rogan, both of which decided to use Ivermectin to treat their
>> COVID infections and found success in doing so. Yiannopoulos said "The
>> medication I have to thank is IVERMECTIN. The moment I started taking
>> it, recovery was dramatic and immediate. Studies worldwide show that it
>> reduces viral load very effectively."
>
> Right...two giants in the fields of epidemiology and virology. I'm going
> to get my medical advice from them...

Completely irrelevant. If people take a treatment despite "expert"
advice and confirm that it has been successful, their experience is just
as valid as the opinion of said "expert" since these experiences are
usually the BASIS for the "expert" opinion.

Besides, the CDC itself recommends Ivermectin for refugees entering the
United States.
<https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html>

>> I trust first-hand experience a lot more than what the media tells us in
>> an effort to force us to buy more expensive and less effective medicine.
>> If you prefer to get a vaccine, a second jab and then another every five
>> months, feel free to do so. However, Ivermectin has been proven to work,
>> costs nothing and:
>>
>> Ivermectin: an award-winning drug with expected antiviral activity
>> against COVID-19
>>
>> <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7539925/>
>>
>> Hint: the media is lying to you again.
>>
>
> Okay, first what works in mice does not always translate to working in
> humans...often not. Next they are doing studies but paper admits that
> the studies are in the early stages and are not conclusive at all.There
> are other recent papers that show Ivermectin is ineffective in human for
> Covid on the NIH site. Meanwhile what IS MOST EFFECTIVE RIGHT NOW is the
> vaccines which aside of immediate availability has two benefits: 1)
> Prevents the majority of infection, hospitalization, transmission and
> death of people, and 2) by preventing the replication of the virus
> prevents the virus from evolving into something even more deadly than it
> already is.

Except that the vaccines _don't_ do what you say that they do. Even the
mainstream media and politicians are admitted that 1) it _doesn't_
prevent infection and 2) _doesn't_ prevent replication. Otherwise,
high-vaccination Israel wouldn't be dealing with record numbers of
COVID-19 at the moment.

> $25 shot is also more cost effective that $$$$$$ in treatment, medicine,
> hospitalization, and possible mortuary costs. That is ignoring the the
> other toll of suffering, lost, and *harm to others* the unvaccinated
> cause. **the worst selfish aspect of all this.

Except that _you_ are the one ignoring data and basing yourself on lies
from people who are financially benefiting from the continued sale of
vaccines. Also, there is nothing "selfish" about people deciding not to
get vaccinating. Since a vaccinated person does NOT prevent themselves
from either getting or transmitting the virus, there is no reason to
feel confident about them.

--
@RabidHussar

On 2021-09-03 6:40 a.m., RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-03 12:11 a.m., Eric Stevens wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 19:24:33 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
>> <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Scott Alfter wrote:
>>>> In article <sgqf7k$11n$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Jonathan N. Little <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> A Voice in the Wilderness? wrote:
>>>>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ivermectin is an ANIMAL drug used to tread parasitic worms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's been used in HUMANS for DECADES, and is safer than aspirin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes true, for the treatment of WORMS. If you have guinea worms then
>>>>> yes,
>>>>> if you have Covid virus then no.
>>>>
>>>> Do you assert that drugs that are developed with one purpose in mind
>>>> never
>>>> find other suitable uses?  If so, you would be gravely mistaken.
>>>> Consider
>>>> Viagra as an example:
>>>>
>>>> https://qz.com/1070732/viagras-famously-surprising-origin-story-is-actually-a-pretty-common-way-to-find-new-drugs/
>>>>
>>>
>>> It can be true in one case but cannot be extrapolated to all cases. For
>>> Ivermectin the fact is it is not the case. Studies have not found it to
>>> be ineffective and using horse wormer or cattle *pour on* is definitely
>>> harmful.
>>
>> And yet:
>> https://rclutz.com/2021/08/19/greenlight-for-ivermectin-in-japan/
>>
>> https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indias-ivermectin-blackout---part-iii-the-lesson-of-kerala/article_ccecb97e-044e-11ec-9112-2b31ae87887a.html
>>
>> or https://tinyurl.com/3u937bsr
>>
>> https://gumshoenews.com/2021/08/22/ivermectin-wins-in-india/
>>
>> https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2021/06/india-could-sentence-who-chief-scientist-to-death-for-misleading-over-ivermectin-and-killing-indians.html
>>
>> or https://tinyurl.com/ymwzw4wr
>
> For my own life, I would much rather use Ivermectin than use a vaccine.
> Of course, it should be noted that long-term use of the drug will cause
> damage to a person's kidneys.
>
>

Then you are an idiot.

Vaccines have been widely tested and actually work.

On 03/09/2021 16:26, RabidHussar wrote:
>
> On 2021-09-03 8:39 a.m., Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>
>> RabidHussar wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2021-09-02 7:24 p.m., Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It can be true in one case but cannot be extrapolated to all cases. For
>>>> Ivermectin the fact is it is not the case. Studies have not found it to
>>>> be ineffective and using horse wormer or cattle *pour on* is definitely
>>>> harmful.
>>>
>>> Two people who thought your statement was bullshit are Milo Yiannopoulos
>>> and Joe Rogan, both of which decided to use Ivermectin to treat their
>>> COVID infections and found success in doing so. Yiannopoulos said "The
>>> medication I have to thank is IVERMECTIN. The moment I started taking
>>> it, recovery was dramatic and immediate. Studies worldwide show that it
>>> reduces viral load very effectively."
>>
>> Right...two giants in the fields of epidemiology and virology. I'm going
>> to get my medical advice from them...
>
> Completely irrelevant. If people take a treatment despite "expert"
> advice and confirm that it has been successful, their experience is just
> as valid as the opinion of said "expert" since these experiences are
> usually the BASIS for the "expert" opinion.

Nonsense, the basis for expert opinion is Randomised Controlled Trials
(RCTs), anything else is little better, if at all, than hearsay. The
above is hearsay.

> Besides, the CDC itself recommends Ivermectin for refugees entering the
> United States.
> <https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html>

Doesn't mention 'for covid-19', in fact covid-19 doesn't appear anywhere
on the page, so presumably that is recommending ivermectin for it's
usual use, against worms.

>> Okay, first what works in mice does not always translate to working in
>> humans...often not. Next they are doing studies but paper admits that
>> the studies are in the early stages and are not conclusive at all.There
>> are other recent papers that show Ivermectin is ineffective in human for
>> Covid on the NIH site. Meanwhile what IS MOST EFFECTIVE RIGHT NOW is the
>> vaccines which aside of immediate availability has two benefits: 1)
>> Prevents the majority of infection, hospitalization, transmission and
>> death of people, and 2) by preventing the replication of the virus
>> prevents the virus from evolving into something even more deadly than it
>> already is.
>
> Except that the vaccines _don't_ do what you say that they do. Even the
> mainstream media and politicians are admitted that 1) it _doesn't_
> prevent infection and 2) _doesn't_ prevent replication. Otherwise,
> high-vaccination Israel wouldn't be dealing with record numbers of
> COVID-19 at the moment.

Yes, it's true that the vaccines only offer protection against severe
illness, but that is still well worth doing for its own sake, both in
terms of cost to you and cost to wider society. AFAIAA, no known
preventative medication offers protection against actually catching the
virus, only appropriately changing your behaviour according to your
government's guidelines, which will probably include:
Avoid as far as possible crowded public spaces;
Wear a mask in crowded public spaces especially indoors;
Respect others personal space and avoid getting too close;
Wash your hands regularly;
Etc, etc.

>> $25 shot is also more cost effective that $$$$$$ in treatment, medicine,
>> hospitalization, and possible mortuary costs. That is ignoring the the
>> other toll of suffering, lost, and *harm to others* the unvaccinated
>> cause.  **the worst selfish aspect of all this.
>
> Except that _you_ are the one ignoring data and basing yourself on lies
> from people who are financially benefiting from the continued sale of
> vaccines.

Whereas apparently it's alright to allow and encourage those selling you
junk medicines to prosper???!!! What strangely warped minds people
develop from reading shit online!!!

> Also, there is nothing "selfish" about people deciding not to
> get vaccinating. Since a vaccinated person does NOT prevent themselves
> from either getting or transmitting the virus, there is no reason to
> feel confident about them.

Vaccines help prevent people suffering more severely, so they reduce
your treatment costs both in terms of actual cost and money lost from
not being able to work, and consequently they speed up recovery from the
disease, thus minimising the amount of time you are infectious and
thereby minimising the risk of you passing it on to others, and thereby
in turn helping to make the disease somewhat easier to control. You
should get yourself vaccinated primarily for your own sake and that of
those close to you, but also because of the wider benefits to society as
a whole.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 2021-09-03 11:49 a.m., Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-09-03 6:40 a.m., RabidHussar wrote:
>> On 2021-09-03 12:11 a.m., Eric Stevens wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 19:24:33 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
>>> <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott Alfter wrote:
>>>>> In article <sgqf7k$11n$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> Jonathan N. Little <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> A Voice in the Wilderness? wrote:
>>>>>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ivermectin is an ANIMAL drug used to tread parasitic worms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's been used in HUMANS for DECADES, and is safer than aspirin.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes true, for the treatment of WORMS. If you have guinea worms
>>>>>> then yes,
>>>>>> if you have Covid virus then no.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you assert that drugs that are developed with one purpose in
>>>>> mind never
>>>>> find other suitable uses?  If so, you would be gravely mistaken.
>>>>> Consider
>>>>> Viagra as an example:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://qz.com/1070732/viagras-famously-surprising-origin-story-is-actually-a-pretty-common-way-to-find-new-drugs/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It can be true in one case but cannot be extrapolated to all cases. For
>>>> Ivermectin the fact is it is not the case. Studies have not found it to
>>>> be ineffective and using horse wormer or cattle *pour on* is definitely
>>>> harmful.
>>>
>>> And yet:
>>> https://rclutz.com/2021/08/19/greenlight-for-ivermectin-in-japan/
>>>
>>> https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indias-ivermectin-blackout---part-iii-the-lesson-of-kerala/article_ccecb97e-044e-11ec-9112-2b31ae87887a.html
>>>
>>> or https://tinyurl.com/3u937bsr
>>>
>>> https://gumshoenews.com/2021/08/22/ivermectin-wins-in-india/
>>>
>>> https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2021/06/india-could-sentence-who-chief-scientist-to-death-for-misleading-over-ivermectin-and-killing-indians.html
>>>
>>> or https://tinyurl.com/ymwzw4wr
>>
>> For my own life, I would much rather use Ivermectin than use a
>> vaccine. Of course, it should be noted that long-term use of the drug
>> will cause damage to a person's kidneys.
>>
>>
>
> Then you are an idiot.
>
> Vaccines have been widely tested and actually work.

They work so well, in fact, that fully-vaccinated people and countries
continue to get infected and in record numbers.

--
@RabidHussar

On 2021-09-03 8:55 a.m., RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-03 11:49 a.m., Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-09-03 6:40 a.m., RabidHussar wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-03 12:11 a.m., Eric Stevens wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 19:24:33 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
>>>> <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Scott Alfter wrote:
>>>>>> In article <sgqf7k$11n$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>> Jonathan N. Little <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> A Voice in the Wilderness? wrote:
>>>>>>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ivermectin is an ANIMAL drug used to tread parasitic worms.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's been used in HUMANS for DECADES, and is safer than aspirin.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes true, for the treatment of WORMS. If you have guinea worms
>>>>>>> then yes,
>>>>>>> if you have Covid virus then no.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you assert that drugs that are developed with one purpose in
>>>>>> mind never
>>>>>> find other suitable uses?  If so, you would be gravely mistaken.
>>>>>> Consider
>>>>>> Viagra as an example:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://qz.com/1070732/viagras-famously-surprising-origin-story-is-actually-a-pretty-common-way-to-find-new-drugs/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It can be true in one case but cannot be extrapolated to all cases.
>>>>> For
>>>>> Ivermectin the fact is it is not the case. Studies have not found
>>>>> it to
>>>>> be ineffective and using horse wormer or cattle *pour on* is
>>>>> definitely
>>>>> harmful.
>>>>
>>>> And yet:
>>>> https://rclutz.com/2021/08/19/greenlight-for-ivermectin-in-japan/
>>>>
>>>> https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indias-ivermectin-blackout---part-iii-the-lesson-of-kerala/article_ccecb97e-044e-11ec-9112-2b31ae87887a.html
>>>>
>>>> or https://tinyurl.com/3u937bsr
>>>>
>>>> https://gumshoenews.com/2021/08/22/ivermectin-wins-in-india/
>>>>
>>>> https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2021/06/india-could-sentence-who-chief-scientist-to-death-for-misleading-over-ivermectin-and-killing-indians.html
>>>>
>>>> or https://tinyurl.com/ymwzw4wr
>>>
>>> For my own life, I would much rather use Ivermectin than use a
>>> vaccine. Of course, it should be noted that long-term use of the drug
>>> will cause damage to a person's kidneys.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Then you are an idiot.
>>
>> Vaccines have been widely tested and actually work.
>
> They work so well, in fact, that fully-vaccinated people and countries
> continue to get infected and in record numbers.
>

Yet you don't look at the success rate of invermectin.

Got it.

On 03/09/2021 16:55, RabidHussar wrote:
>
> On 2021-09-03 11:49 a.m., Alan Baker wrote:
>>
>> Then you are an idiot.
>>
>> Vaccines have been widely tested and actually work.
>
> They work so well, in fact, that fully-vaccinated people and countries
> continue to get infected and in record numbers.

But fewer people who have been vaccinated end up in hospital and DIE, so
vaccines represent a net reduction of risk, which is why it is highly
recommended that you have them. Do you walk down a busy road on the
sidewalk rather than in the road amongst all the traffic? Of course you
do! If you walked down the middle of the road, drivers *may* see and
manage to avoid you, but sooner or later one will not. Equally if you
walk on the sidewalk rather than the road, it is possible that a badly
driven car might come on to the sidewalk and kill you there, but it's
much less likely, so everyone walks on the sidewalk. Similarly,
everyone should get themselves vaccinated to reduce the personal risk
both to themselves and others.

But by all means go through life in this reckless manner, you will die
probably sooner rather than later, probably sooner than most, thus your
removing your genes from humanity's gene pool, thereby improving it.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

In article <19rYI.44418$QzOf.30114@fx17.iad>, RabidHussar
<rabid@huss.ar> wrote:

> >> Two people who thought your statement was bullshit are Milo Yiannopoulos
> >> and Joe Rogan, both of which decided to use Ivermectin to treat their
> >> COVID infections and found success in doing so. Yiannopoulos said "The
> >> medication I have to thank is IVERMECTIN. The moment I started taking
> >> it, recovery was dramatic and immediate. Studies worldwide show that it
> >> reduces viral load very effectively."
> >
> > Right...two giants in the fields of epidemiology and virology. I'm going
> > to get my medical advice from them...
>
> Completely irrelevant. If people take a treatment despite "expert"
> advice and confirm that it has been successful, their experience is just
> as valid as the opinion of said "expert" since these experiences are
> usually the BASIS for the "expert" opinion.

anecdotal.

>
> Except that the vaccines _don't_ do what you say that they do. Even the
> mainstream media and politicians are admitted that 1) it _doesn't_
> prevent infection and 2) _doesn't_ prevent replication.

not quite.

what they've said is that vaccines significantly lower the risk of
infection, symptoms, hospitalization and death. viral replication is
also significantly lower.

there is always the chance of a breakthrough infection, or that someone
is immunocompromised and the vaccine was less effective than in a
healthy person.

nothing is 100%, so they aren't going to say it prevents it.

seatbelts do not prevent injuries, but they reduce the severity.
helmets do not prevent injuries, but they reduce the severity.

both of those can turn what would have been a critical injury or death
into something survivable, possibly even minor.

> Otherwise,
> high-vaccination Israel wouldn't be dealing with record numbers of
> COVID-19 at the moment.

actually, israel shows that the vaccines work quite well.

a lot of people do not understand the numbers, perhaps deliberately so,
and twist them to further an agenda.

> > $25 shot is also more cost effective that $$$$$$ in treatment, medicine,
> > hospitalization, and possible mortuary costs. That is ignoring the the
> > other toll of suffering, lost, and *harm to others* the unvaccinated
> > cause. **the worst selfish aspect of all this.
>
> Except that _you_ are the one ignoring data and basing yourself on lies
> from people who are financially benefiting from the continued sale of
> vaccines. Also, there is nothing "selfish" about people deciding not to
> get vaccinating.

there is.

> Since a vaccinated person does NOT prevent themselves
> from either getting or transmitting the virus, there is no reason to
> feel confident about them.

it *greatly* lowers the risk of infection and contagion.

In article <QzrYI.20419$F26.2499@fx44.iad>, RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar>
wrote:

> >
> > Vaccines have been widely tested and actually work.
>
> They work so well, in fact, that fully-vaccinated people and countries
> continue to get infected and in record numbers.

far, far less than the unvaccinated.

nothing is perfect in this world.

In message <6o63jg11cdpki3em9d71rvabm1q32mo6mc@4ax.com> Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 08:14:42 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
> <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:

>>A Voice in the Wilderness? wrote:
>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>> Ivermectin is an ANIMAL drug used to tread parasitic worms.
>>>
>>> It's been used in HUMANS for DECADES, and is safer than aspirin.
>>>
>>
>>Yes true, for the treatment of WORMS. If you have guinea worms then yes,
>>if you have Covid virus then no.

> If you put Invermectin in your system it does what it does. If you
> have worms it gets rid of the worms. If you have COVID and have taken
> several other medications you ameliiorate or even get rid of Covid. Of
> course, in all cases, the use of the correct dosage is paramount.

Stop spreading dangerous and completely false health information. Or
take plenty o invermectin and the problem will solve it self with you
death by suicide. Either way, posting this bullshit will harm or kill
people, so stop it.

--
'Never build a dungeon you wouldn't be happy to spend the night in
yourself,' said the Patrician (...). 'The world would be a
happier place if more people remembered that.' --Guards! Guards!

In message <DBpYI.5340$3p3.2252@fx16.iad> RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote:
> For my own life, I would much rather use Ivermectin than use a vaccine.

Then you are a fucking idiot.

--
Over 3,500 gay marriages and, what, no hellfire? I was promise
hellfire. And riots. What gives? -- Mark Morford

In message <n2oYI.58230$Kv2.54308@fx47.iad> RabidHussar <rabid@huss.ar> wrote:
> Two people who thought your statement was bullshit are Milo Yiannopoulos

Further proof your are a fucking idiot. Why don't you go away and
fellate Trumps micropenis as you so desperately want to?

Until then, fuck off.

--
Oh and I could be a genius if I just put my mind to it And I, I could
do anything if only I could get 'round to it.

On 2021-09-03 12:01 p.m., Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-09-03 8:55 a.m., RabidHussar wrote:
>> On 2021-09-03 11:49 a.m., Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-03 6:40 a.m., RabidHussar wrote:
>>>> On 2021-09-03 12:11 a.m., Eric Stevens wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 19:24:33 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
>>>>> <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott Alfter wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <sgqf7k$11n$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>> Jonathan N. Little <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> A Voice in the Wilderness? wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ivermectin is an ANIMAL drug used to tread parasitic worms.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's been used in HUMANS for DECADES, and is safer than aspirin.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes true, for the treatment of WORMS. If you have guinea worms
>>>>>>>> then yes,
>>>>>>>> if you have Covid virus then no.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you assert that drugs that are developed with one purpose in
>>>>>>> mind never
>>>>>>> find other suitable uses?  If so, you would be gravely mistaken.
>>>>>>> Consider
>>>>>>> Viagra as an example:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://qz.com/1070732/viagras-famously-surprising-origin-story-is-actually-a-pretty-common-way-to-find-new-drugs/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It can be true in one case but cannot be extrapolated to all
>>>>>> cases. For
>>>>>> Ivermectin the fact is it is not the case. Studies have not found
>>>>>> it to
>>>>>> be ineffective and using horse wormer or cattle *pour on* is
>>>>>> definitely
>>>>>> harmful.
>>>>>
>>>>> And yet:
>>>>> https://rclutz.com/2021/08/19/greenlight-for-ivermectin-in-japan/
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indias-ivermectin-blackout---part-iii-the-lesson-of-kerala/article_ccecb97e-044e-11ec-9112-2b31ae87887a.html
>>>>>
>>>>> or https://tinyurl.com/3u937bsr
>>>>>
>>>>> https://gumshoenews.com/2021/08/22/ivermectin-wins-in-india/
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2021/06/india-could-sentence-who-chief-scientist-to-death-for-misleading-over-ivermectin-and-killing-indians.html
>>>>>
>>>>> or https://tinyurl.com/ymwzw4wr
>>>>
>>>> For my own life, I would much rather use Ivermectin than use a
>>>> vaccine. Of course, it should be noted that long-term use of the
>>>> drug will cause damage to a person's kidneys.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Then you are an idiot.
>>>
>>> Vaccines have been widely tested and actually work.
>>
>> They work so well, in fact, that fully-vaccinated people and countries
>> continue to get infected and in record numbers.
>>
>
> Yet you don't look at the success rate of invermectin.
>
> Got it.

Strawman, got it.

--
@RabidHussar

On 2021-09-03 9:24 a.m., RabidHussar wrote:
> On 2021-09-03 12:01 p.m., Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-09-03 8:55 a.m., RabidHussar wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-03 11:49 a.m., Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-09-03 6:40 a.m., RabidHussar wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-09-03 12:11 a.m., Eric Stevens wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 19:24:33 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
>>>>>> <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scott Alfter wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article <sgqf7k$11n$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>>> Jonathan N. Little <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> A Voice in the Wilderness? wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ivermectin is an ANIMAL drug used to tread parasitic worms.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's been used in HUMANS for DECADES, and is safer than aspirin.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes true, for the treatment of WORMS. If you have guinea worms
>>>>>>>>> then yes,
>>>>>>>>> if you have Covid virus then no.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you assert that drugs that are developed with one purpose in
>>>>>>>> mind never
>>>>>>>> find other suitable uses?  If so, you would be gravely mistaken.
>>>>>>>> Consider
>>>>>>>> Viagra as an example:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://qz.com/1070732/viagras-famously-surprising-origin-story-is-actually-a-pretty-common-way-to-find-new-drugs/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It can be true in one case but cannot be extrapolated to all
>>>>>>> cases. For
>>>>>>> Ivermectin the fact is it is not the case. Studies have not found
>>>>>>> it to
>>>>>>> be ineffective and using horse wormer or cattle *pour on* is
>>>>>>> definitely
>>>>>>> harmful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And yet:
>>>>>> https://rclutz.com/2021/08/19/greenlight-for-ivermectin-in-japan/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indias-ivermectin-blackout---part-iii-the-lesson-of-kerala/article_ccecb97e-044e-11ec-9112-2b31ae87887a.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> or https://tinyurl.com/3u937bsr
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://gumshoenews.com/2021/08/22/ivermectin-wins-in-india/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2021/06/india-could-sentence-who-chief-scientist-to-death-for-misleading-over-ivermectin-and-killing-indians.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> or https://tinyurl.com/ymwzw4wr
>>>>>
>>>>> For my own life, I would much rather use Ivermectin than use a
>>>>> vaccine. Of course, it should be noted that long-term use of the
>>>>> drug will cause damage to a person's kidneys.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then you are an idiot.
>>>>
>>>> Vaccines have been widely tested and actually work.
>>>
>>> They work so well, in fact, that fully-vaccinated people and
>>> countries continue to get infected and in record numbers.
>>>
>>
>> Yet you don't look at the success rate of invermectin.
>>
>> Got it.
>
> Strawman, got it.
>

Nope.

You've stated that the anecdotal evidence of two supposedly successful
cases of treatment with invermectin is enough for you to accept it's
usefulness.

In article <sgtia0$msq$1@dont-email.me>, Alan Baker
<notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

> >>>>
> >>>> Vaccines have been widely tested and actually work.
> >>>
> >>> They work so well, in fact, that fully-vaccinated people and
> >>> countries continue to get infected and in record numbers.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yet you don't look at the success rate of invermectin.
> >>
> >> Got it.
> >
> > Strawman, got it.
> >
>
> Nope.
>
> You've stated that the anecdotal evidence of two supposedly successful
> cases of treatment with invermectin is enough for you to accept it's
> usefulness.

while ignoring multiple clinical trials that show that ivermectin can
make things worse.

also, vaccinated people getting infected in record numbers doesn't tell
the full story.

the unvaccinated are *also* getting infected in record numbers.

unfortunately for the unvaccinated, they are getting *very* sick, some
of whom are dead.

those who are vaccinated usually have a mild case, but if they do need
to go to the hospital, it's unlikely they'll be in intensive care and
even less likely to die.

<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-UamtDVQAoNw4_?format=jpg>
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-UadWuVQBQEq2Q?format=jpg>

RabidHussar wrote:
>
> Besides, the CDC itself recommends Ivermectin for refugees entering
> the United States.
>
> <https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html>

Yes, for "Combined Regimen for overseas presumptive treatment of
*PARASITES* and malaria" not Covid and other viruses!

*emphasis mine*

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2021-09-03 9:24 a.m., RabidHussar wrote:
>> On 2021-09-03 12:01 p.m., Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-03 8:55 a.m., RabidHussar wrote:
>>>> On 2021-09-03 11:49 a.m., Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-09-03 6:40 a.m., RabidHussar wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-09-03 12:11 a.m., Eric Stevens wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 19:24:33 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
>>>>>>> <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Scott Alfter wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article <sgqf7k$11n$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>>>> Jonathan N. Little <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> A Voice in the Wilderness? wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ivermectin is an ANIMAL drug used to tread parasitic worms.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's been used in HUMANS for DECADES, and is safer than aspirin.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes true, for the treatment of WORMS. If you have guinea worms
>>>>>>>>>> then yes,
>>>>>>>>>> if you have Covid virus then no.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do you assert that drugs that are developed with one purpose in
>>>>>>>>> mind never
>>>>>>>>> find other suitable uses?  If so, you would be gravely
>>>>>>>>> mistaken. Consider
>>>>>>>>> Viagra as an example:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://qz.com/1070732/viagras-famously-surprising-origin-story-is-actually-a-pretty-common-way-to-find-new-drugs/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It can be true in one case but cannot be extrapolated to all
>>>>>>>> cases. For
>>>>>>>> Ivermectin the fact is it is not the case. Studies have not
>>>>>>>> found it to
>>>>>>>> be ineffective and using horse wormer or cattle *pour on* is
>>>>>>>> definitely
>>>>>>>> harmful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And yet:
>>>>>>> https://rclutz.com/2021/08/19/greenlight-for-ivermectin-in-japan/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indias-ivermectin-blackout---part-iii-the-lesson-of-kerala/article_ccecb97e-044e-11ec-9112-2b31ae87887a.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or https://tinyurl.com/3u937bsr
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://gumshoenews.com/2021/08/22/ivermectin-wins-in-india/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2021/06/india-could-sentence-who-chief-scientist-to-death-for-misleading-over-ivermectin-and-killing-indians.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or https://tinyurl.com/ymwzw4wr
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For my own life, I would much rather use Ivermectin than use a
>>>>>> vaccine. Of course, it should be noted that long-term use of the
>>>>>> drug will cause damage to a person's kidneys.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then you are an idiot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Vaccines have been widely tested and actually work.
>>>>
>>>> They work so well, in fact, that fully-vaccinated people and
>>>> countries continue to get infected and in record numbers.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yet you don't look at the success rate of invermectin.
>>>
>>> Got it.
>>
>> Strawman, got it.
>>
>
> Nope.
>
> You've stated that the anecdotal evidence of two supposedly successful
> cases of treatment with invermectin is enough for you to accept it's
> usefulness.

One stat that is associated with Invermectin is a dramatic increase in
calls to poison control in red states where horse wormer if flying off
the shelf.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

In article <sgtode$69t$1@dont-email.me>, Jonathan N. Little
<lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:

> One stat that is associated with Invermectin is a dramatic increase in
> calls to poison control in red states where horse wormer if flying off
> the shelf.

<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9_7bxLVIAEjzka?format=jpg>

nospam wrote:
> In article <sgtode$69t$1@dont-email.me>, Jonathan N. Little
> <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> One stat that is associated with Invermectin is a dramatic increase in
>> calls to poison control in red states where horse wormer if flying off
>> the shelf.
>
> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9_7bxLVIAEjzka?format=jpg>
>

But being a horse's ass does not count!

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 16:18:44 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>In message <6o63jg11cdpki3em9d71rvabm1q32mo6mc@4ax.com> Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2021 08:14:42 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
>> <lws4art@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>A Voice in the Wilderness? wrote:
>>>> Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>>> Ivermectin is an ANIMAL drug used to tread parasitic worms.
>>>>
>>>> It's been used in HUMANS for DECADES, and is safer than aspirin.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Yes true, for the treatment of WORMS. If you have guinea worms then yes,
>>>if you have Covid virus then no.
>
>> If you put Invermectin in your system it does what it does. If you
>> have worms it gets rid of the worms. If you have COVID and have taken
>> several other medications you ameliiorate or even get rid of Covid. Of
>> course, in all cases, the use of the correct dosage is paramount.
>
>Stop spreading dangerous and completely false health information. Or
>take plenty o invermectin and the problem will solve it self with you
>death by suicide. Either way, posting this bullshit will harm or kill
>people, so stop it.

"Bullshit"? oh ye of closed mind?

Try https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33592050/

Bullshit bedammed! It works, and not just in a tiny study published
in Pub Med.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Conclusions: In comparison to SOC or placebo, IVM did not reduce
> all-cause mortality, length of stay or viral clearance in RCTs in
> COVID-19 patients with mostly mild disease. IVM did not have an
> effect on AEs or severe AEs. IVM is not a viable option to treat
> COVID-19 patients.

I think a lot of these people promoting craziness like ivermectin,
chloramphenicol and chloroquine as antivirals might find haloperidol
or fluphenazine to be more effective for their particular problems.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."