https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/retro-computing-museum-in-ukraine-destroyed-by-russian-bomb/
Commodores, Amigas, and others destroyed. Fortunately, no one was hurt.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan
June 25-26 Commodore Los Angeles Super Show 2022 - http://www.portcommodore.com/class

On 2022-03-27, Robert Bernardo <rbernardo@iglou.com> wrote:
> https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/retro-computing-museum-in-ukraine-destroyed-by-russian-bomb/
>
> Commodores, Amigas, and others destroyed. Fortunately, no one was hurt.
>
> Truly,
> Robert Bernardo
> Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
> Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan
> June 25-26 Commodore Los Angeles Super Show 2022 - http://www.portcommodore.com/class

My God! Is nothing safe?

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

Robert Bernardo <rbernardo@iglou.com> wrote:
> https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/retro-computing-museum-in-ukraine-destroyed-by-russian-bomb/
>
> Commodores, Amigas, and others destroyed. Fortunately, no one was hurt.
>
> Truly,
> Robert Bernardo
> Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
> Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan
> June 25-26 Commodore Los Angeles Super Show 2022 - http://www.portcommodore.com/class
>

:-(

--
Pete

maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> On 2022-03-27, Robert Bernardo <rbernardo@iglou.com> wrote:
>> https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/retro-computing-museum-in-ukraine-destroyed-by-russian-bomb/
>>
>> Commodores, Amigas, and others destroyed. Fortunately, no one was hurt.
>>
>> Truly,
>> Robert Bernardo
>> Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
>> Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan
>> June 25-26 Commodore Los Angeles Super Show 2022 - http://www.portcommodore.com/class
>
> My God! Is nothing safe?
>

I suppose, compared to all the people these idiots are killing, this is
small potatoes, but sad nonetheless.

--
Pete

On Saturday, March 26, 2022 at 6:57:18 PM UTC-7, Robert Bernardo wrote:
> https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/retro-computing-museum-in-ukraine-destroyed-by-russian-bomb/
>
> Commodores, Amigas, and others destroyed. Fortunately, no one was hurt.
>
> Truly,
> Robert Bernardo
> Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
> Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan
> June 25-26 Commodore Los Angeles Super Show 2022 - http://www.portcommodore.com/class

President Biden wants the Russian butcher Putin to be gone. So be it.
Leave Putin to Mentifex. Mentifex will get rid of Putin.

98004 42278 13935 96409 49097 88134 66187 34961
02750 62677 85021 91735 69568 63394 23804 67947
34322 30350 08918 08967 37613 98589 13452 81487
94136 01892 64829 39659 10745 58729 53448 53972

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 18:57:16 -0700 (PDT), Robert Bernardo
<rbernardo@iglou.com> wrote:

>https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/retro-computing-museum-in-ukraine-destroyed-by-russian-bomb/
>
> Commodores, Amigas, and others destroyed. Fortunately, no one was hurt.

That is no good at all.
--
Jim

:МИР МИРУ ("Peace to the World") has been achieved so completely by Vladimir Putin that the Nobel Committee gushes with Schadenfreude in the awarding of the most prestigious Nobel Peace Prize ever to the 69-year-old President-for-Life-and-Death of Russia, Vladimir Satanovich Putin. Aided and abetted by the Patriarch Kirill of the Russian Orthodeath Church,
Vlad the Impaler has removed and terminated the noisy children of Ukraine and the loud drunken carousing of 16,000 young Russian soldiers now peacefully dead in fruitless battle. Imagine the joy and rapture of the surviving parents whom Putin has forever freed from the crying of babies and from the loud behavior of boisterous young Russian men. Peace and stillness at last, thanks to Putin! Quiet and deathly silence at last, Putin be praised! No more waking up in the middle of the night to tend to noisy babies, silenced now forever by the bombshells and missiles of the greatest Russian leader Putin. No more setting out precious food and drink for the rowdy Russian sons of 16 thousand Russian mothers, now granted the serene privilege of burying their hushed sons in peaceful cemeteries all across Russia. The grateful dead thank Putin for bringing peace and silence to sixteen thousand once-noisy Russian families. Moscow does not believe in tears, but 16K Russian mothers may shed tears of joy in the thanks-be-to-Putin knowledge that noisy grandchildren will never disturb the childless quiet and the kid-free tranquillity of their twilight years. Putin the Invincible, Putin the Baby-Slayer, has valiantly earned his Nobel Peace Prize by making all quiet on the western front, leaving peaceful Rubble for Rubles in the Ukrainian towns and soundless Graveyards for Grandsons in the heroic Russian cemeteries.

Instructions for taking his just reward to Putin:

58187 48967 21331 44763 71818 90089 71452 59260
25360 44699 14176 59827 18234 41769 20017 35312
63735 64243 19746 40628 13172 35566 28085 84321
65020 10808 87999 98632 46241 52744 97485 19950

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 10:27:05 PM UTC-6, A.T. Murray wrote:
> :МИР МИРУ ("Peace to the World")

I just recently learned that it's only because of the Soviets that this confusion
exists in the Russian language. Under the old orthography, МИР was still the word
for "peace", but МІР was the word for "world".

John Savard

On Saturday, April 2, 2022 at 5:09:05 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 10:27:05 PM UTC-6, A.T. Murray wrote:

> > :МИР МИРУ ("Peace to the World")

> I just recently learned that it's only because of the Soviets that this confusion
> exists in the Russian language. Under the old orthography, МИР was still the word
> for "peace", but МІР was the word for "world".

Oh, that should have been МИРЪ and МІРЪ of course, reflecting the _one_
characteristic of the old orthography that it made sense to remove.

John Savard

On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 04:09:04 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:
>I just recently learned that it's only because of the Soviets that this confusion
>exists in the Russian language. Under the old orthography, ??? was still the word
>for "peace", but ??? was the word for "world".
>
>John Savard

Pooty is uncultured.
--
Jim

On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 15:44:10 -0500, D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 04:09:04 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>wrote:
>>I just recently learned that it's only because of the Soviets that this confusion
>>exists in the Russian language. Under the old orthography, ??? was still the word
>>for "peace", but ??? was the word for "world".
>>
>>John Savard
>
>Pooty is uncultured.

I am told that "nekulturny" is one of the direst insults in the
Russian language. And it certainly applies to him.

On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 18:25:39 -0400
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am told that "nekulturny" is one of the direst insults in the
> Russian language. And it certainly applies to him.

One of his victims (she was trying to get out of the country and
didn't make it) had a phrase that applies to him he is a "nekulturny
fuckwit".

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 18:25:39 -0400
>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am told that "nekulturny" is one of the direst insults in the
>> Russian language. And it certainly applies to him.

Sounds like Clarke has been reading too much Clancy.

>
> One of his victims (she was trying to get out of the country and
>didn't make it) had a phrase that applies to him he is a "nekulturny
>fuckwit".

Originally Answered: What does it mean for a Russian to
accuse someone of being "nekulturny"?
Do people say that anymore or is that a relic of Soviet times?

'Nekulturny' is 'uncultured'. No more.
It is a polite way to rebuke someone. Stronger word would be 'gruby' - 'rude'.
So the Urban Dictionary translation that you have is wrong in definition:
we'd never use 'bastard' with 'nekulturny'. Bastard is much more offensive.

'Nekulturny' can be used by mother, explaining to her kid why,
say, a drunk man is yelling. She'd say, 'that is a nekulturny
man, do not be like him'.

"No, it is not a relic of the Soviet times. When we say
that someone is uncultured, we mean that they are not interested
in culture per se - they don\u2019t read books, they cannot
speak or write properly and their outlook is narrow. They
cannot put two words together without an oath - these are
the people whom we call \u201cnekulturny\u201d.

https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-mean-for-a-Russian-to-accuse-someone-of-being-nekulturny-Do-people-say-that-anymore-or-is-that-a-relic-of-Soviet-times

On 2022-04-03, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>
>> On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 18:25:39 -0400
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I am told that "nekulturny" is one of the direst insults in the
>>> Russian language. And it certainly applies to him.
>
> Sounds like Clarke has been reading too much Clancy.

Or Heinlein, who mentions the term in his essay on visiting the
Soviet Union which is included in _Expanded Universe_.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 18:25:39 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 15:44:10 -0500, D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 04:09:04 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>>wrote:
>>>I just recently learned that it's only because of the Soviets that this confusion
>>>exists in the Russian language. Under the old orthography, ??? was still the word
>>>for "peace", but ??? was the word for "world".
>>>
>>>John Savard
>>
>>Pooty is uncultured.
>
> I am told that "nekulturny" is one of the direst insults in the
> Russian language. And it certainly applies to him.

I seem to hear that in Russian dash cam videos quite often. I hope the
sanctions or retalliations (i.e. taking Youtube away from Russians) won't
dry them out.
--
Andreas

On 2022-04-03, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 18:25:39 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 15:44:10 -0500, D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 04:09:04 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
>>>wrote:
>>>>I just recently learned that it's only because of the Soviets that this confusion
>>>>exists in the Russian language. Under the old orthography, ??? was still the word
>>>>for "peace", but ??? was the word for "world".
>>>>
>>>>John Savard
>>>
>>>Pooty is uncultured.
>>
>> I am told that "nekulturny" is one of the direst insults in the
>> Russian language. And it certainly applies to him.
>
> I seem to hear that in Russian dash cam videos quite often.

Do What?. AFAIK, dashcams are used in Russia to record the frequent
carcrashes, for insurance claims.

> I hope the
> sanctions or retalliations (i.e. taking Youtube away from Russians) won't
> dry them out.

Oh no banning youtube! Its too cruel. :)

--
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

On 3 Apr 2022 19:24:23 GMT, maus wrote:
>
> On 2022-04-03, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>> I seem to hear that in Russian dash cam videos quite often.
>
> Do What?.

Something missing in my sentence... I probably meant "I watch Russian dash
cam videos quite often".

> AFAIK, dashcams are used in Russia to record the frequent
> carcrashes, for insurance claims.

That and other things. Like the meteor event in 2013. Also road rage and
other car related things. Like in
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt1Bsm7-jRQ>.

>> I hope the
>> sanctions or retalliations (i.e. taking Youtube away from Russians) won't
>> dry them out.
>
> Oh no banning youtube! Its too cruel. :)

Russians also go Netflix removed.

Rumors say Russia starts an own streaming service called Njetflix. -)
--
Andreas

On Sun, 03 Apr 2022 16:01:29 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
<cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

>On 2022-04-03, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>>
>>> On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 18:25:39 -0400
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am told that "nekulturny" is one of the direst insults in the
>>>> Russian language. And it certainly applies to him.
>>
>> Sounds like Clarke has been reading too much Clancy.
>
>Or Heinlein, who mentions the term in his essay on visiting the
>Soviet Union which is included in _Expanded Universe_.

If we ever get back to working in the office I'll have to go across
the hall and ask the model governance guys about this. They're native
speakers of Russian.

On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 9:02:54 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> If we ever get back to working in the office I'll have to go across
> the hall and ask the model governance guys about this. They're native
> speakers of Russian.

From what I've read about the matter, the use of this term tells
us something about Russian culture; if someone is openly
racist, he would be called "nekulturny", meaning that he is
ignorant - rather than something which, to us, would seem a
stronger criticism, based on racism being _morally wrong_.

This reflects what many Westerners would view as a defective
model of the world - viewing things through the superficial
prism of what is considered to be modern and sophisticated,
instead of putting the basic distinction between Right and
Wrong always front and center.

John Savard

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 01:19:45 -0700 (PDT)
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 9:02:54 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> > If we ever get back to working in the office I'll have to go across
> > the hall and ask the model governance guys about this. They're native
> > speakers of Russian.
>
> From what I've read about the matter, the use of this term tells
> us something about Russian culture; if someone is openly
> racist, he would be called "nekulturny", meaning that he is
> ignorant - rather than something which, to us, would seem a

Stronger than ignorant AIUI there's a real implication of "decent
people don't do that" about it. It comes over as an attempt at education
and behaviour correction by peer pressure which seems to me to be a very
appropriate response.

> stronger criticism, based on racism being _morally wrong_.

Therefore punishable if not corrected ?

> This reflects what many Westerners would view as a defective
> model of the world - viewing things through the superficial

Many consider the Western view of the world defective - they're not
wrong IMHO it would be incredibly arrogant and stupid to think it perfect.

> prism of what is considered to be modern and sophisticated,

There is another viewpoint though. The only thing that stops us
fighting openly over things, taking what we want and so on is the culture of
mutual respect and tolerance built up slowly over thousands of years. The
definitions of morally right and wrong shift like quicksand over the
centuries and across cultures but one thing has remained constant - if
you're not following the norms of the culture around you then you are
likely to have trouble.

> instead of putting the basic distinction between Right and
> Wrong always front and center.

The trouble with that is that right and wrong are moving targets.
For most of history holding slaves was normal and therefore considered
right by most people - including many of the slaves by all accounts! Up
until some time in the early twentieth century eugenics was considered by
many (famous and widely respected among them) people to be sound and correct
science and the only real hope for the future of mankind. Putting capitals
on them and holding them up as fixed points is false to fact and often seen
as an attempt to impose a particular flavour of morality on people who
disagree with some aspects of it.

The current preoccupation with political correctness raised to the
level of moral imperative does sometimes make it difficult to discuss real
differences of racial origin because somewhere there's this deep seated
idea that if two things are not the same one must be better than the other.
That is cultural and starts in early education with "What's your favourite
colour" and less formally with "Who do you support".

It is important that we recognise right and wrong as cultural
artefacts subject to change because it is by changing the widespread
understanding of these concepts that real social development happens. Not
too long ago a successful duelist was a celebrated character acting fully
within their rights, now they'd be despised as a multiple murderer. In 1553
in the UK homosexual acts were so wrong that they became punishable by
death, four hundred and fourteen years later they became legal for some,
a little too late to prevent Alan Turing's ill treatment at the hands ofthe
law and consequent suicide. The torturers of the Spanish Inquisition
believed they were doing Right and staked their immortal souls on that
belief by doing terrible things in the cause of Right.

There are no demonstrably correct definitions of right and wrong,
but there are far too many strong opinions and too little tolerance of
differences but there seems to be what looks to me like steady improvement
over long periods.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On Di 19 Apr 2022 at 11:48, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 01:19:45 -0700 (PDT)
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, April 3, 2022 at 9:02:54 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> > If we ever get back to working in the office I'll have to go across
>> > the hall and ask the model governance guys about this. They're native
>> > speakers of Russian.
>>
>> From what I've read about the matter, the use of this term tells
>> us something about Russian culture; if someone is openly
>> racist, he would be called "nekulturny", meaning that he is
>> ignorant - rather than something which, to us, would seem a
>
> Stronger than ignorant AIUI there's a real implication of "decent
> people don't do that" about it. It comes over as an attempt at education
> and behaviour correction by peer pressure which seems to me to be a very
> appropriate response.
>
>> stronger criticism, based on racism being _morally wrong_.
>
> Therefore punishable if not corrected ?
>
>> This reflects what many Westerners would view as a defective
>> model of the world - viewing things through the superficial
>
> Many consider the Western view of the world defective - they're not
> wrong IMHO it would be incredibly arrogant and stupid to think it perfect.
>
>> prism of what is considered to be modern and sophisticated,
>
> There is another viewpoint though. The only thing that stops us
> fighting openly over things, taking what we want and so on is the culture of
> mutual respect and tolerance built up slowly over thousands of years. The
> definitions of morally right and wrong shift like quicksand over the
> centuries and across cultures but one thing has remained constant - if
> you're not following the norms of the culture around you then you are
> likely to have trouble.
>
>> instead of putting the basic distinction between Right and
>> Wrong always front and center.
>
> The trouble with that is that right and wrong are moving targets.
> For most of history holding slaves was normal and therefore considered
> right by most people - including many of the slaves by all accounts! Up
> until some time in the early twentieth century eugenics was considered by
> many (famous and widely respected among them) people to be sound and correct
> science and the only real hope for the future of mankind. Putting capitals
> on them and holding them up as fixed points is false to fact and often seen
> as an attempt to impose a particular flavour of morality on people who
> disagree with some aspects of it.
>
> The current preoccupation with political correctness raised to the
> level of moral imperative does sometimes make it difficult to discuss real
> differences of racial origin because somewhere there's this deep seated
> idea that if two things are not the same one must be better than the other.
> That is cultural and starts in early education with "What's your favourite
> colour" and less formally with "Who do you support".
>
> It is important that we recognise right and wrong as cultural
> artefacts subject to change because it is by changing the widespread
> understanding of these concepts that real social development happens. Not
> too long ago a successful duelist was a celebrated character acting fully
> within their rights, now they'd be despised as a multiple murderer. In 1553
> in the UK homosexual acts were so wrong that they became punishable by
> death, four hundred and fourteen years later they became legal for some,
> a little too late to prevent Alan Turing's ill treatment at the hands ofthe
> law and consequent suicide. The torturers of the Spanish Inquisition
> believed they were doing Right and staked their immortal souls on that
> belief by doing terrible things in the cause of Right.
>
> There are no demonstrably correct definitions of right and wrong,
> but there are far too many strong opinions and too little tolerance of
> differences but there seems to be what looks to me like steady improvement
> over long periods.

Very well put! I totally agree.
+1

'Andreas

On 19/04/2022 11:48, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> The trouble with that is that right and wrong are moving targets.
> For most of history holding slaves was normal and therefore considered
> right by most people - including many of the slaves by all accounts! Up
> until some time in the early twentieth century eugenics was considered by
> many (famous and widely respected among them) people to be sound and correct
> science and the only real hope for the future of mankind. Putting capitals
> on them and holding them up as fixed points is false to fact and often seen
> as an attempt to impose a particular flavour of morality on people who
> disagree with some aspects of it.

The time in the 20th century that eugenics became unacceptable was when
Hitler used the term.

I think it may be the future of mankind. But I don't know how to stop
another Hitler.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons

Andy

On 2022-04-19, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 19/04/2022 11:48, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
>> The trouble with that is that right and wrong are moving targets.
>> For most of history holding slaves was normal and therefore considered
>> right by most people - including many of the slaves by all accounts! Up
>> until some time in the early twentieth century eugenics was considered by
>> many (famous and widely respected among them) people to be sound and correct
>> science and the only real hope for the future of mankind. Putting capitals
>> on them and holding them up as fixed points is false to fact and often seen
>> as an attempt to impose a particular flavour of morality on people who
>> disagree with some aspects of it.
>
> The time in the 20th century that eugenics became unacceptable was when
> Hitler used the term.
>
> I think it may be the future of mankind. But I don't know how to stop
> another Hitler.

a.k.a Putin, Kim, Trump...

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons

Wonderful book. I think of it when I hear terms like "de-skilling".

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 21:51:48 +0100
Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> The time in the 20th century that eugenics became unacceptable was when
> Hitler used the term.
>
> I think it may be the future of mankind. But I don't know how to stop
> another Hitler.

Nobody does, but use of eugenics would probably have prevented
Stephen Hawking.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 06:45:51 +0100
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 21:51:48 +0100
> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> > The time in the 20th century that eugenics became unacceptable was when
> > Hitler used the term.
> >
> > I think it may be the future of mankind. But I don't know how to stop
> > another Hitler.
>
> Nobody does, but use of eugenics would probably have prevented
> Stephen Hawking.
>
Prevented his degeneration do you mean? Or is gene therapy different?

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.