Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
> O 31/08/23 ás 16:38, Adam H. Kerman escribiu:
> > Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
> >> O 30/08/23 as 17:03, Adam H. Kerman escribiu:
> >
> > You managed to create an attribution line with a non-ASCII character in
> > it. Brilliant move, there.
>
> Yes? That's a key on my keyboard, it's not hard at all.

Well, *my* 'stone-age' newsreader can set the attribution line based
on the newsgroup (or a regular expression of newsgroups). I.e. it can
show 'On','at' and 'wrote' instead of you local language (Galician?)
equivalents. Why can't your 'modern' newsreader do that?

> >>> Again, there are plenty of people using newsreaders that do no
> >>> properly translate UTF-8 characters (or the character set they didn't
> >>> set in the newsreader).
> >
> >> Which means those newsreaders are broken. Their authors should fix them
> >> or their users should find better working implementations.
> >
> > This is a well-known issue. Use of these
> > newsreaders long predates UTF-8's use on Usenet. In some cases, these
> > newsreaders predate character set declaration. The newsreaders tend to
> > be abandoned by their authors and certain platforms don't have other
> > choices in newsreaders that users find acceptable.
>
> Software rots. What else's new.

Software doesn't 'rot'. It just keeps working like before. (FWIW, as
I said before, *I* don't object to UTF-8, when it's called for.)

> >>> For better or worse, Usenet works best on laptop and desktop
> >>> computers. An 80x24 display is very difficult to produce on a smart
> >>> phone screen
> >
> >> Usenet is plain text. Line size doesn't matter, it can be easily wrapped.
> >
> > line wrapping does not solve the long line problem. Long lines
> > tend to break awkwardly.
>
> On the contrary, your short lines puts a limit on how much I can reduce
> my screen, because the line breaks leave dangling words.

As I said before, unwrapping 'short' lines is easy. If you want that
feature, but your newsreader can't do it, then get your newsreader fixed
or get another newsreader. Don't blame the standard.

> > Again, this is a well-known problem. Format=Flowed
> > standard was developed for the Blackberry, if I recall correctly, but
> > it's a poorly implemented standard. Most clients that claim to implement
> > it choke on reflowing quoted text. Very few output line length at 78
> > characters or less so it displays properly where flowed text isn't
> > implemented.
>
> Right, so they *are* broken.

No, the design of Format=Flowed is so that one can display (non-F=F)
short lines correctly and can unwrap them if desired.

But, as Adam explained, most Format=Flowed *implementations* don't
properly reflow quoted text. Again: Don't blame other newsreaders for
your broken one.

> > Anyone who has been on Usenet for more than a few minutes has
> > encountered everything I've mentioned. Knock off the trolling here.
>
> I don't. My client works well enough. Also, stop the namecalling.

Apparently your client does *not* "work well enough", otherwise you
wouldn't be complaining about issues resulting from *its* limitations.

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.culture.usenet.]
On 2023-08-29, Paul W. Schleck <pschleck@panix.com> wrote:
>
> It may or may not be useful to also press the "I have the same question"
> button.
>
> https://support.google.com/groups/thread/231067143/how-can-we-prevent-the-relentless-spam-targeting-usenet-groups?hl=en
>

Use killfiles in your usenet client. For instance, with SLRN
under Linux/BSD you can set it up in a near "graphical" way
by pressing "k" and making choices in text menues.

O 01/09/23 ás 20:41, Frank Slootweg escribiu:
> Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
>> O 31/08/23 ás 16:38, Adam H. Kerman escribiu:
>>> Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
>>>> O 30/08/23 as 17:03, Adam H. Kerman escribiu:
>>>
>>> You managed to create an attribution line with a non-ASCII character in
>>> it. Brilliant move, there.
>>
>> Yes? That's a key on my keyboard, it's not hard at all.
>
> Well, *my* 'stone-age' newsreader can set the attribution line based
> on the newsgroup (or a regular expression of newsgroups). I.e. it can
> show 'On','at' and 'wrote' instead of you local language (Galician?)
> equivalents. Why can't your 'modern' newsreader do that?

Because I don't care, like I also don't care what your newsreader can do.

>>>>> Again, there are plenty of people using newsreaders that do no
>>>>> properly translate UTF-8 characters (or the character set they didn't
>>>>> set in the newsreader).
>>>
>>>> Which means those newsreaders are broken. Their authors should fix them
>>>> or their users should find better working implementations.
>>>
>>> This is a well-known issue. Use of these
>>> newsreaders long predates UTF-8's use on Usenet. In some cases, these
>>> newsreaders predate character set declaration. The newsreaders tend to
>>> be abandoned by their authors and certain platforms don't have other
>>> choices in newsreaders that users find acceptable.
>>
>> Software rots. What else's new.
>
> Software doesn't 'rot'. It just keeps working like before. (FWIW, as
> I said before, *I* don't object to UTF-8, when it's called for.)

Software rots because the world keeps changing under it. An accounting
DOS program might have been feature-complete, but that doesn't matter if
I can't use it after the 2000.

>>>>> For better or worse, Usenet works best on laptop and desktop
>>>>> computers. An 80x24 display is very difficult to produce on a smart
>>>>> phone screen
>>>
>>>> Usenet is plain text. Line size doesn't matter, it can be easily wrapped.
>>>
>>> line wrapping does not solve the long line problem. Long lines
>>> tend to break awkwardly.
>>
>> On the contrary, your short lines puts a limit on how much I can reduce
>> my screen, because the line breaks leave dangling words.
>
> As I said before, unwrapping 'short' lines is easy. If you want that
> feature, but your newsreader can't do it, then get your newsreader fixed
> or get another newsreader. Don't blame the standard.

I didn't. And wrapping long lines is a lot easier than unwrapping short
lines. If vi can do it, why can't you?

>>> Again, this is a well-known problem. Format=Flowed
>>> standard was developed for the Blackberry, if I recall correctly, but
>>> it's a poorly implemented standard. Most clients that claim to implement
>>> it choke on reflowing quoted text. Very few output line length at 78
>>> characters or less so it displays properly where flowed text isn't
>>> implemented.
>>
>> Right, so they *are* broken.
>
> No, the design of Format=Flowed is so that one can display (non-F=F)
> short lines correctly and can unwrap them if desired.
>
> But, as Adam explained, most Format=Flowed *implementations* don't
> properly reflow quoted text.

If «most Format=Flowed *implementations*» don't do what they are
supposed to do, then they are broken. Thanks for agreeing.

> Again: Don't blame other newsreaders for your broken one.

You've got that backwards. MY newsreader properly reflows text. It's
just that YOUR newsreader doesn't enable format=flowed. If you don't
tell it to reflow, then it doesn't. Working as expected.

And again, I'm not blaming anyone.

>>> Anyone who has been on Usenet for more than a few minutes has
>>> encountered everything I've mentioned. Knock off the trolling here.
>>
>> I don't. My client works well enough. Also, stop the namecalling.
>
> Apparently your client does *not* "work well enough", otherwise you
> wouldn't be complaining about issues resulting from *its* limitations.

I never said it didn't work. And the only thing I'm complaining about is
that you want to keep using Usenet like it's still the 80s, when
encodings were a pain to use and the only screens available were CRT.

Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
> O 01/09/23 ás 20:41, Frank Slootweg escribiu:
> > Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
> >> O 31/08/23 ás 16:38, Adam H. Kerman escribiu:
> >>> Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
> >>>> O 30/08/23 as 17:03, Adam H. Kerman escribiu:
[...]
> >>>>> Again, there are plenty of people using newsreaders that do no
> >>>>> properly translate UTF-8 characters (or the character set they didn't
> >>>>> set in the newsreader).
> >>>
> >>>> Which means those newsreaders are broken. Their authors should fix them
> >>>> or their users should find better working implementations.
> >>>
> >>> This is a well-known issue. Use of these
> >>> newsreaders long predates UTF-8's use on Usenet. In some cases, these
> >>> newsreaders predate character set declaration. The newsreaders tend to
> >>> be abandoned by their authors and certain platforms don't have other
> >>> choices in newsreaders that users find acceptable.
> >>
> >> Software rots. What else's new.
> >
> > Software doesn't 'rot'. It just keeps working like before. (FWIW, as
> > I said before, *I* don't object to UTF-8, when it's called for.)
>
> Software rots because the world keeps changing under it. An accounting
> DOS program might have been feature-complete, but that doesn't matter if
> I can't use it after the 2000.

But that's the whole point. Yes, the world is changing, but that
doesn't mean 'old' clients can not be used anymore, especially in
English-language groups, which these groups 'happen' to be.

> >>>>> For better or worse, Usenet works best on laptop and desktop
> >>>>> computers. An 80x24 display is very difficult to produce on a smart
> >>>>> phone screen
> >>>
> >>>> Usenet is plain text. Line size doesn't matter, it can be easily wrapped.
> >>>
> >>> line wrapping does not solve the long line problem. Long lines
> >>> tend to break awkwardly.
> >>
> >> On the contrary, your short lines puts a limit on how much I can reduce
> >> my screen, because the line breaks leave dangling words.
> >
> > As I said before, unwrapping 'short' lines is easy. If you want that
> > feature, but your newsreader can't do it, then get your newsreader fixed
> > or get another newsreader. Don't blame the standard.
>
> I didn't. And wrapping long lines is a lot easier than unwrapping short
> lines. If vi can do it, why can't you?

Bingo! vi can not only wrap long lines, but it can also unwrap short
lines. So there's no reason that your - or anybody else's - newsreader
can't do it.

> >>> Again, this is a well-known problem. Format=Flowed
> >>> standard was developed for the Blackberry, if I recall correctly, but
> >>> it's a poorly implemented standard. Most clients that claim to implement
> >>> it choke on reflowing quoted text. Very few output line length at 78
> >>> characters or less so it displays properly where flowed text isn't
> >>> implemented.
> >>
> >> Right, so they *are* broken.
> >
> > No, the design of Format=Flowed is so that one can display (non-F=F)
> > short lines correctly and can unwrap them if desired.
> >
> > But, as Adam explained, most Format=Flowed *implementations* don't
> > properly reflow quoted text.
>
> If «most Format=Flowed *implementations*» don't do what they are
> supposed to do, then they are broken. Thanks for agreeing.

Sadly, "what they are supposed to do" is in the eye of the beholder. I
(and probably Adam and you (?)) think that they should be able to handle
(multiple levels of) quoted lines. But some (most?) of the
*implementers* think differently or/and can't be bothered. Good luck,
changing that.

> > Again: Don't blame other newsreaders for your broken one.
>
> You've got that backwards. MY newsreader properly reflows text. It's
> just that YOUR newsreader doesn't enable format=flowed. If you don't
> tell it to reflow, then it doesn't. Working as expected.

So yours works and my one works and neither one has a problem with the
other? Great, glad we sorted that one out.

> And again, I'm not blaming anyone.

Well, you seem to be blaming users of 'old' clients or/and users who
want other users to stick to established standards (unless there's a
very good reason not to).

> >>> Anyone who has been on Usenet for more than a few minutes has
> >>> encountered everything I've mentioned. Knock off the trolling here.
> >>
> >> I don't. My client works well enough. Also, stop the namecalling.
> >
> > Apparently your client does *not* "work well enough", otherwise you
> > wouldn't be complaining about issues resulting from *its* limitations.
>
> I never said it didn't work. And the only thing I'm complaining about is
> that you want to keep using Usenet like it's still the 80s, when
> encodings were a pain to use and the only screens available were CRT.

Nope. I already explained my stance on the use of non-ASCII character
sets and while *I* wish to see/read short lines (Clue-by-four: Why do
you think newspapers, etc. use short lines?), other users can do what
*they* want, as long as they don't violate established standards.

But, I've think we've covered everthing backwards and forwards.
Probably no point in continuing. So, AFAIC, EOD. Have a nice day.

Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
>01/09/23 20:41, Frank Slootweg escribiu:
>>Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
>>>31/08/23 16:38, Adam H. Kerman escribiu:
>>>>Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
>>>>>O 30/08/23 17:03, Adam H. Kerman escribiu:

>>>>You managed to create an attribution line with a non-ASCII character in
>>>>it. Brilliant move, there.

>>>Yes? That's a key on my keyboard, it's not hard at all.

>> Well, *my* 'stone-age' newsreader can set the attribution line based
>>on the newsgroup (or a regular expression of newsgroups). I.e. it can
>>show 'On','at' and 'wrote' instead of you local language (Galician?)
>>equivalents. Why can't your 'modern' newsreader do that?

>Because I don't care, like I also don't care what your newsreader can do.

I know you don't give a shit. You made that clear from the beginning
when you created that attribution line to deliberately cause things to
break for other Usenet users.

It's not about how it looks on your screen but how it looks on everybody
else's. You're communicating on a network with other people. You aren't
posting to your own blog on a Web page, publishing on your own server in
which you control how it's laid out.

On text Usenet, we post in plain text, and when writing in English, we
use ASCII. Why? ASCII is universal. ASCII is never mistranslated by
anybody's newsreader.

We don't write an article entirely in English that requires no ASCII
characters in it at all, then create an attribution line that has a
single non-ASCII character in it in order to force the issue of
declaring the use of a non-ASCII character set that won't be correctly
quoted in followup when using certain newsreaders.

That's trolling.

When called out on bad behavior, we don't argue the point in followup
after followup, denying reality. You're just seeking attention.

You're a troll.

>>>>>>. . .

>Software rots because the world keeps changing under it. An accounting
>DOS program might have been feature-complete, but that doesn't matter if
>I can't use it after the 2000.

Nope. You don't get to redefine words with well-known definitions like
"rot", then declare that you've won the argument. It doesn't work like
that.

>>. . .

>I didn't. And wrapping long lines is a lot easier than unwrapping short
>lines. If vi can do it, why can't you?

I didn't send short lines. I never do. Line length between 72 and 79
characters (or 78 characters when using Format=Flowed) is the expected
line length. Longer than that is a long line; shorter than 72 is a short
line.

I'm using vim which doesn't typically end the line within the paragraph
with the trailing space required for Format=Flowed. Because
Format=Flowed is broken on too many implementations, I don't bother.
Even if I were to quote Format=Flowed, the lines are received in poor
condition and don't allow text already quoted from a precursor article
to flow. To get it to work right requires reformatting all the quoted
text, which is extra work I'm not going to bother doing.

>>>>Again, this is a well-known problem. Format=Flowed
>>>>standard was developed for the Blackberry, if I recall correctly, but
>>>>it's a poorly implemented standard. Most clients that claim to implement
>>>>it choke on reflowing quoted text. Very few output line length at 78
>>>>characters or less so it displays properly where flowed text isn't
>>>>implemented.

>>>Right, so they *are* broken.

>> No, the design of Format=Flowed is so that one can display (non-F=F)
>>short lines correctly and can unwrap them if desired.

>> But, as Adam explained, most Format=Flowed *implementations* don't
>>properly reflow quoted text.

>If most Format=Flowed implementations don't do what they are
>supposed to do, then they are broken. Thanks for agreeing.

You didn't make that point. I did. That's why I generally don't bother
outputting Format=Flowed.

>>Again: Don't blame other newsreaders for your broken one.

>You've got that backwards. MY newsreader properly reflows text. It's
>just that YOUR newsreader doesn't enable format=flowed. If you don't
>tell it to reflow, then it doesn't. Working as expected.

You have no evidence that Frank's newsreader failed to correctly
implement Format=Flowed. You're just running your mouth.

>And again, I'm not blaming anyone.

You're blaming everybody else, actually.

>>>>Anyone who has been on Usenet for more than a few minutes has
>>>>encountered everything I've mentioned. Knock off the trolling here.

>>>I don't. My client works well enough. Also, stop the namecalling.

>> Apparently your client does *not* "work well enough", otherwise you
>>wouldn't be complaining about issues resulting from *its* limitations.

>I never said it didn't work. And the only thing I'm complaining about is
>that you want to keep using Usenet like it's still the 80s, when
>encodings were a pain to use and the only screens available were CRT.

You're blaming everybody else, actually. Quite a few CRTs were well
designed and their well-liked features influenced implementations that
came later.

You're just running your mouth.

O 02/09/23 ás 16:47, Adam H. Kerman escribiu:
> Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
>> 01/09/23 20:41, Frank Slootweg escribiu:
>>> Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
>>>> 31/08/23 16:38, Adam H. Kerman escribiu:
>>>>> Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
>>>>>> O 30/08/23 17:03, Adam H. Kerman escribiu:
>
>>>>> You managed to create an attribution line with a non-ASCII character in
>>>>> it. Brilliant move, there.
>
>>>> Yes? That's a key on my keyboard, it's not hard at all.
>
>>> Well, *my* 'stone-age' newsreader can set the attribution line based
>>> on the newsgroup (or a regular expression of newsgroups). I.e. it can
>>> show 'On','at' and 'wrote' instead of you local language (Galician?)
>>> equivalents. Why can't your 'modern' newsreader do that?
>
>> Because I don't care, like I also don't care what your newsreader can do.
>
> I know you don't give a shit. You made that clear from the beginning
> when you created that attribution line to deliberately cause things to
> break for other Usenet users.

I didn't. My attribution line is the same everywhere. And if some
software breaks for multibyte characters, they should file a bug report.

I still haven't read any responses by anyone who's newsreaders are being
broken by my attribution line. You and Frak obviously don't count, since
you are able to followup to my message. Seems like you're the only one
who cares.

> On text Usenet, we post in plain text, and when writing in English, we
> use ASCII. Why? ASCII is universal. ASCII is never mistranslated by
> anybody's newsreader.

UTF-8 is also universal, and it's backwards compatible with ASCII.

> We don't write an article entirely in English that requires no ASCII
> characters in it at all, then create an attribution line that has a
> single non-ASCII character in it in order to force the issue of
> declaring the use of a non-ASCII character set that won't be correctly
> quoted in followup when using certain newsreaders.

Never knew that attribution lines were so important that a single
character merited five paragraphs.

> When called out on bad behavior, we don't argue the point in followup
> after followup, denying reality. You're just seeking attention.

«bad behavior»? Sorry, Mr. Usenet Police. I didn't know you aren't
supposed to debate in a forum.

>> Software rots because the world keeps changing under it. An accounting
>> DOS program might have been feature-complete, but that doesn't matter if
>> I can't use it after the 2000.
>
> Nope. You don't get to redefine words with well-known definitions like
> "rot", then declare that you've won the argument. It doesn't work like
> that.

Show your definition then:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_rot#Environment_change>.

And this is not a race, there are no winners or losers.

>>> Again: Don't blame other newsreaders for your broken one.
>
>> You've got that backwards. MY newsreader properly reflows text. It's
>> just that YOUR newsreader doesn't enable format=flowed. If you don't
>> tell it to reflow, then it doesn't. Working as expected.
>
> You have no evidence that Frank's newsreader failed to correctly
> implement Format=Flowed.

Not implement, include. His Content-Type doesn't include format=flowed,
like mine does.

>> And again, I'm not blaming anyone.
>
> You're blaming everybody else, actually.

I'm not blaming. I'm arguing that in this day and age you can use
Unicode in text posts, and that lines can be more than 72 chars wide.

>>>>> Anyone who has been on Usenet for more than a few minutes has
>>>>> encountered everything I've mentioned. Knock off the trolling here.
>
>>>> I don't. My client works well enough. Also, stop the namecalling.
>
>>> Apparently your client does *not* "work well enough", otherwise you
>>> wouldn't be complaining about issues resulting from *its* limitations.
>
>> I never said it didn't work. And the only thing I'm complaining about is
>> that you want to keep using Usenet like it's still the 80s, when
>> encodings were a pain to use and the only screens available were CRT.
>
> You're blaming everybody else, actually.

What am I blaming them (who?) of, then?

> You're just running your mouth.

Pot calling the kettle black.

John <john@building-m.simplistic-anti-spam-measure.net> wrote:
>An unofficial UDP against Google Groups is almost as good. Drop the
>messages and tell your peers you're dropping them. Note it on your
>peering page. If it becomes known that a high percentage of servers are
>dropping GG messages, the best-case scenario is that *good* posters find
>new servers and the *bad* posters continue to use GG (and get ignored).

This has been going on for years. Plenty of Usenet sites and probably
most Usenet users drop Google Groups postings. It has helped a lot, but
not enough, and a plateau was reached long ago.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
>
>I'm not blaming. I'm arguing that in this day and age you can use
>Unicode in text posts, and that lines can be more than 72 chars wide.

If you want the rules changed, start a new RFC and get them changed.

In the meantime, if people use high bit characters or long lines or
base64 encoding, their posts are not likely to be read. If you want to
do these things, there's nothing I can do to stop you, but if your goal
is for people to read what you post, it is likely a good idea to follow
the rules.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
>02/09/23 16:47, Adam H. Kerman escribiu:
>>Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
>>>01/09/23 20:41, Frank Slootweg escribiu:
>>>>Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
>>>>>31/08/23 16:38, Adam H. Kerman escribiu:
>>>>>>Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>30/08/23 17:03, Adam H. Kerman escribiu:

>>>>>>You managed to create an attribution line with a non-ASCII character in
>>>>>>it. Brilliant move, there.

>>>>>Yes? That's a key on my keyboard, it's not hard at all.

>>>> Well, *my* 'stone-age' newsreader can set the attribution line based
>>>>on the newsgroup (or a regular expression of newsgroups). I.e. it can
>>>>show 'On','at' and 'wrote' instead of you local language (Galician?)
>>>>equivalents. Why can't your 'modern' newsreader do that?

>>>Because I don't care, like I also don't care what your newsreader can do.

>>I know you don't give a shit. You made that clear from the beginning
>>when you created that attribution line to deliberately cause things to
>>break for other Usenet users.

>I didn't. . . .

You did. You're gaslighting now, so not reading the rest of your
misrepresentations.

Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:
> O 02/09/23 ás 16:47, Adam H. Kerman escribiu:
> > Parodper <parodper@disroot.org> wrote:

[Most deleted. Only (re-)addressing one point, which is - again - a
misrepresentation - or at least a severe misunderstanding - of the
actual situation/facts.]

> >> And again, I'm not blaming anyone.
> >
> > You're blaming everybody else, actually.
>
> I'm not blaming. I'm arguing that in this day and age you can use
> Unicode in text posts, and that lines can be more than 72 chars wide.

Yes, you *can* use non-ASCII characters when *needed*. But often,
people - including you in your local-language attribution line - use
non-ASCII characters for no reason (and in your case, it actually makes
things *worse* - i.e. using local-language words in an English-language
group - instead of better).

And yes, lines *can* be more than 72 characters wide, but again, *if*
that adds value for the poster *and* does not adversely affect other
users. That's why Format=Flowed uses (read: should use) long *logical*
lines, consisting of 'short' *physical* lines ending in an invisible
soft break, followed by a hard break (spaceCRLF).

Trust us, smart people have figured this all out a long, long time
ago and designed the RFCs in a way to make the above requirements
possible.

That's all we (now three) are saying: Be a good Netizen and make sure
that your posts can be read and read easily by the audience you're
addressing.

If you don't want to be a good Netizen, then just say so, but don't
hide behind bogus arguments that other people's newsreaders are at fault
and they should get with the program.

Mister Slootweg, You are becoming FASTIDIOUS, and I am not very patient with people who DO NOT WANT to understand.

And as for me, I do not understand what You mean by "stripping again the other original groups", because Your words seem to assume that I know something, but I have no idea of what that 'something' may be. Write more complete explanations, AS I DO. Do not leave the reader wondering what You may have meant.

It is OBVIOUS that I have not the machines on which I experimented Minix, BSD and Linux. If I had any of those machines until today, there would be no need of using Apple IPad. Then I could access NNTP 'in the proper way'. But currently I cannot, as far as I know it is only possible to me via Google Groups or, perhaps, via one of the two Linux emulators for IPad, which are ISH and A-Shell, both already installed in my IPad.

Of course I have read a considerable part of the documentation of A-Shell and of ISH. Maybe not every detail, but my procedure is ALWAYS to begin by reading the available documentation of the software that I install. I have experience of YEARS with computers, I am not an ignorant born yesterday.

The only interface between World Wide Web and Usenet of which I am aware is Google Groups. Deja News does not exist anymore, and I have no idea of which may be the other interfaces suggested by Mister Scott Dorsey, if indeed any other interfaces exist.

In stead of formulating useless questions without providing any valid information, Mister Slootweg, You could do much more service to every one by INFORMING of which are those Web to Usenet interfaces, or by providing other solutions for accessing Usenet 'in the proper way' from Apple IPad.

Google is NOT the only search engine for the World Wide Web, there are better options available. One is Duck Duck Go, and there are others.

Do not ask again a battery of unnecessary questions. Put Yourself in the place of an experienced person whose only devices are, at present, an Apple IPad tablet and a Galaxy mobile telephone running Android Linux.

[Stripped newsgroups restored, again.]

CSS Dixieland <cssdixieland@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mister Slootweg, You are becoming FASTIDIOUS, and I am not very
> patient with people who DO NOT WANT to understand.

Step away from that mirror, *NOW!* :-(

> And as for me, I do not understand what You mean by "stripping again
> the other original groups", because Your words seem to assume that I
> know something, but I have no idea of what that 'something' may be.
> Write more complete explanations, AS I DO. Do not leave the reader
> wondering what You may have meant.

Sigh! The original posting was posted to:

> Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.fan.usenet,alt.culture.usenet

But *your* responses were only posted to alt.fan.usenet. So the
question was/is, who/what stripped the other newsgroups, you or Google
Groups?

To add insult to injury, this time you even managed to respond to the
wrong article. Your response references (References: header) one of my
responses to *Parodper*, instead of to you. Even GG should be able to
show/perform the correct threading.

[...]

> Of course I have read a considerable part of the documentation of
> A-Shell and of ISH. Maybe not every detail, but my procedure is ALWAYS
> to begin by reading the available documentation of the software that I
> install. I have experience of YEARS with computers, I am not an
> ignorant born yesterday.

But, even with all that experience, you can't be bothered saying what
went wrong, what errors you got, etc.. Got it!

> The only interface between World Wide Web and Usenet of which I am
> aware is Google Groups. Deja News does not exist anymore, and I have
> no idea of which may be the other interfaces suggested by Mister Scott
> Dorsey, if indeed any other interfaces exist.
>
> In stead of formulating useless questions without providing any valid
> information, Mister Slootweg, You could do much more service to every
> one by INFORMING of which are those Web to Usenet interfaces, or by
> providing other solutions for accessing Usenet 'in the proper way'
> from Apple IPad.

Sigh! *If* I had specific information about other (than GG) web
interfaces to Usenet, I would of course have given that. Because I don't
- because I have no need for them -, I pointed to Scott. So if you have
questions, ask Scott, that's how these things work on Usenet.

> Google is NOT the only search engine for the World Wide Web, there are
> better options available. One is Duck Duck Go, and there are others.

You don't say!

> Do not ask again a battery of unnecessary questions. Put Yourself in
> the place of an experienced person whose only devices are, at present,
> an Apple IPad tablet and a Galaxy mobile telephone running Android
> Linux.

Ah, more info popping up, even without me asking "unnecessary
questions"!

As to "an experienced person", you still have show evidence to back up
that claim.

QED. HTH. EOD. HAND. NC.

On Sunday 3 September 2023 at 09:57:23 UTC, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> [Stripped newsgroups restored, again.]
> CSS Dixieland wrote:
> > Mister Slootweg, You are becoming FASTIDIOUS, and I am not very
> > patient with people who DO NOT WANT to understand.
> Step away from that mirror, *NOW!* :-(
> > And as for me, I do not understand what You mean by "stripping again
> > the other original groups", because Your words seem to assume that I
> > know something, but I have no idea of what that 'something' may be.
> > Write more complete explanations, AS I DO. Do not leave the reader
> > wondering what You may have meant.
> Sigh! The original posting was posted to:
>
> > Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.fan.usenet,alt.culture.usenet
>
> But *your* responses were only posted to alt.fan.usenet. So the
> question was/is, who/what stripped the other newsgroups, you or Google
> Groups?
>
> To add insult to injury, this time you even managed to respond to the
> wrong article. Your response references (References: header) one of my
> responses to *Parodper*, instead of to you. Even GG should be able to
> show/perform the correct threading.
>
> [...]
> > Of course I have read a considerable part of the documentation of
> > A-Shell and of ISH. Maybe not every detail, but my procedure is ALWAYS
> > to begin by reading the available documentation of the software that I
> > install. I have experience of YEARS with computers, I am not an
> > ignorant born yesterday.
> But, even with all that experience, you can't be bothered saying what
> went wrong, what errors you got, etc.. Got it!
> > The only interface between World Wide Web and Usenet of which I am
> > aware is Google Groups. Deja News does not exist anymore, and I have
> > no idea of which may be the other interfaces suggested by Mister Scott
> > Dorsey, if indeed any other interfaces exist.
> >
> > In stead of formulating useless questions without providing any valid
> > information, Mister Slootweg, You could do much more service to every
> > one by INFORMING of which are those Web to Usenet interfaces, or by
> > providing other solutions for accessing Usenet 'in the proper way'
> > from Apple IPad.
> Sigh! *If* I had specific information about other (than GG) web
> interfaces to Usenet, I would of course have given that. Because I don't
> - because I have no need for them -, I pointed to Scott. So if you have
> questions, ask Scott, that's how these things work on Usenet.
> > Google is NOT the only search engine for the World Wide Web, there are
> > better options available. One is Duck Duck Go, and there are others.
> You don't say!
> > Do not ask again a battery of unnecessary questions. Put Yourself in
> > the place of an experienced person whose only devices are, at present,
> > an Apple IPad tablet and a Galaxy mobile telephone running Android
> > Linux.
> Ah, more info popping up, even without me asking "unnecessary
> questions"!
>
> As to "an experienced person", you still have show evidence to back up
> that claim.
>
> QED. HTH. EOD. HAND. NC.

Slootweg, keeping now all the headers so that my reply could reach thy repugnant eyes:

Thou art a SON OF A BITCH !!!

I try to do my best, but I have no patience with HATEFUL SONS OF BITCH like thee.

If thou wert not a MISERABLE COWARD hiding behind a computer, I should SMASH THY ODIOUS FACE, and throw thy dead body to the pigs.

I am not going to ask Mister Scott or anyone, if they had that information, they should already have posted it.

I am simply abandoning this group FOR EVER, meaning that all Members simply lose the knowledge that in many other aspects of Computing I could have provided to them.

And meaning that thou canst rant as much as thou wantest. Thy STUPIDITIES WILT NEVER reach me. Thou rather seemest a kike or a kaffer, and I DEEPLY HATE kikes and kaffers.

Dixieland for ever !!!

CSS Dixieland

Last transmission. Signing off...

On Sat, 2 Sep 2023 14:47:24 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
wrote in <ucvhtr$esg2$1@dont-email.me>:

> On text Usenet, we post in plain text, and when writing in English, we use
> ASCII. Why? ASCII is universal. ASCII is never mistranslated by anybody's
> newsreader.

("TINW". ;) (But this post is only 7-bit.)

I'm not sure, but there might be an RFC expanding on that
definition to include usage of UTF-8...and indeed,
one GNKSAI newsreader (pan) includes the
ability to insert an emoji in its editor.

Wrote about this back in March in alt.fan.usenet:

Message-ID: <pan$c9574$eaa8c0ab$897a78a7$8b3cb66@vallor.earth>

One can also use emojis on an xfce4-terminal. I think most modern terminals
will render them. The Linux tool "gnome characters" is helpful for
copying emojis to the clipboard, if your newsreader is older.

--
-v

vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:
>Sat, 2 Sep 2023 14:47:24 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:

>>On text Usenet, we post in plain text, and when writing in English, we use
>>ASCII. Why? ASCII is universal. ASCII is never mistranslated by anybody's
>>newsreader.

>("TINW". ;) (But this post is only 7-bit.)

>I'm not sure, but there might be an RFC expanding on that
>definition to include usage of UTF-8...and indeed,
>one GNKSAI newsreader (pan) includes the
>ability to insert an emoji in its editor.

Even you are admitting that use of emojis isn't universal because those
with other newsreaders aren't set up to insert or display them.

>Wrote about this back in March in alt.fan.usenet:

>Message-ID: <pan$c9574$eaa8c0ab$897a78a7$8b3cb66@vallor.earth>

>One can also use emojis on an xfce4-terminal. I think most modern terminals
>will render them. The Linux tool "gnome characters" is helpful for
>copying emojis to the clipboard, if your newsreader is older.

Why would I want to do that if other people cannot receive it for
display?

Way to completely miss the point.

On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 14:47:05 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
wrote in <ud7f19$20qo6$1@dont-email.me>:

> vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:
>>Sat, 2 Sep 2023 14:47:24 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
>
>>>On text Usenet, we post in plain text, and when writing in English, we
>>>use ASCII. Why? ASCII is universal. ASCII is never mistranslated by
>>>anybody's newsreader.
>
>>("TINW". ;) (But this post is only 7-bit.)
>
>>I'm not sure, but there might be an RFC expanding on that definition to
>>include usage of UTF-8...and indeed,
>>one GNKSAI newsreader (pan) includes the ability to insert an emoji in
>>its editor.
>
> Even you are admitting that use of emojis isn't universal because those
> with other newsreaders aren't set up to insert or display them.
>
>>Wrote about this back in March in alt.fan.usenet:
>
>>Message-ID: <pan$c9574$eaa8c0ab$897a78a7$8b3cb66@vallor.earth>
>
>>One can also use emojis on an xfce4-terminal. I think most modern
>>terminals will render them. The Linux tool "gnome characters" is
>>helpful for copying emojis to the clipboard, if your newsreader is
>>older.
>
> Why would I want to do that if other people cannot receive it for
> display?

_Which_ "other people" are you speaking for?

Hey, this doesn't have to be complicated. Some people like plain
ASCII. Some people enjoy emojis, and can view them with their
newsreader.

Some people like listening to the radio, some people
like watching TV.

>
> Way to completely miss the point.

If you say so.

--
-v

vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:
>Tue, 5 Sep 2023 14:47:05 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:
>>>Sat, 2 Sep 2023 14:47:24 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:

>>>>On text Usenet, we post in plain text, and when writing in English, we
>>>>use ASCII. Why? ASCII is universal. ASCII is never mistranslated by
>>>>anybody's newsreader.

>>>("TINW". ;) (But this post is only 7-bit.)

>>>I'm not sure, but there might be an RFC expanding on that definition to
>>>include usage of UTF-8...and indeed,
>>>one GNKSAI newsreader (pan) includes the ability to insert an emoji in
>>>its editor.

>>Even you are admitting that use of emojis isn't universal because those
>>with other newsreaders aren't set up to insert or display them.

>>>Wrote about this back in March in alt.fan.usenet:

>>>Message-ID: <pan$c9574$eaa8c0ab$897a78a7$8b3cb66@vallor.earth>

>>>One can also use emojis on an xfce4-terminal. I think most modern
>>>terminals will render them. The Linux tool "gnome characters" is
>>>helpful for copying emojis to the clipboard, if your newsreader is
>>>older.
>>Why would I want to do that if other people cannot receive it for
>>display?

>_Which_ "other people" are you speaking for?

That would be people who are other than me, who aren't using a character
set including emojis (regardless of whether it's displayable in their
terminal emulation) and who just want to receive plain text characters.

>Hey, this doesn't have to be complicated. Some people like plain
>ASCII. Some people enjoy emojis, and can view them with their
>newsreader.

No one not using a character set that includes emojis wants to receive
emojis. Furthermore, if they quote characters they cannot display, the
followup is messed up. Emojis are not plain text. It's not complicated
to understand.

>Some people like listening to the radio, some people
>like watching TV.

You're acting like someone whose has a radio can receive a television
broadcast.
>>Way to completely miss the point.

>If you say so.

You've convinced me. You didn't miss the point. You are being obtuse,
willfully.

On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 16:11:38 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
wrote in <ud7jvq$21q0c$1@dont-email.me>:

> vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:
>>Tue, 5 Sep 2023 14:47:05 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>>vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:
>>>>Sat, 2 Sep 2023 14:47:24 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
>
>>>>>On text Usenet, we post in plain text, and when writing in English,
>>>>>we use ASCII. Why? ASCII is universal. ASCII is never mistranslated
>>>>>by anybody's newsreader.
>
>>>>("TINW". ;) (But this post is only 7-bit.)
>
>>>>I'm not sure, but there might be an RFC expanding on that definition
>>>>to include usage of UTF-8...and indeed,
>>>>one GNKSAI newsreader (pan) includes the ability to insert an emoji in
>>>>its editor.
>
>>>Even you are admitting that use of emojis isn't universal because those
>>>with other newsreaders aren't set up to insert or display them.
>
>>>>Wrote about this back in March in alt.fan.usenet:
>
>>>>Message-ID: <pan$c9574$eaa8c0ab$897a78a7$8b3cb66@vallor.earth>
>
>>>>One can also use emojis on an xfce4-terminal. I think most modern
>>>>terminals will render them. The Linux tool "gnome characters" is
>>>>helpful for copying emojis to the clipboard, if your newsreader is
>>>>older.
>
>>>Why would I want to do that if other people cannot receive it for
>>>display?
>
>>_Which_ "other people" are you speaking for?
>
> That would be people who are other than me, who aren't using a character
> set including emojis (regardless of whether it's displayable in their
> terminal emulation) and who just want to receive plain text characters.

I was pointing out "TINW". But yes, there are some newsgroups where
UTF-8 isn't welcome. I'm not suggesting posting them
to (say) comp.lang.c. (Or news.groups, where I'm studiously remaining
with ASCII emoticons. :) )

>
>>Hey, this doesn't have to be complicated. Some people like plain ASCII.
>> Some people enjoy emojis, and can view them with their newsreader.
>
> No one not using a character set that includes emojis wants to receive
> emojis. Furthermore, if they quote characters they cannot display, the
> followup is messed up. Emojis are not plain text. It's not complicated
> to understand.

I do see your point, that is a problem. In some groups,
they aren't appropriate. As more and more newsreaders modernize,
this will be less of a problem, I dare say.

(Last commit for pan was August 27th.)

>
>>Some people like listening to the radio, some people like watching TV.
>
> You're acting like someone whose has a radio can receive a television
> broadcast.

Or someone is acting like we should stick with radio, and never have
television on any of the spectrum. :/

Or we should stick with analog TV, instead of HDTV.

>>>Way to completely miss the point.
>
>>If you say so.
>
> You've convinced me. You didn't miss the point. You are being obtuse,
> willfully.

No, I just don't share your views. And I don't think I've been
rude to you, that wouldn't be called-for -- I just disagree.

BTW, if it matters: my first newsreader was rn
on HP/UX 8. That was 1991. A lot has changed
since then: it's a new millenium.

--
-v

vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:
>Tue, 5 Sep 2023 16:11:38 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:
>>>Tue, 5 Sep 2023 14:47:05 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:

>>>Hey, this doesn't have to be complicated. Some people like plain ASCII.
>>>Some people enjoy emojis, and can view them with their newsreader.

>>No one not using a character set that includes emojis wants to receive
>>emojis. Furthermore, if they quote characters they cannot display, the
>>followup is messed up. Emojis are not plain text. It's not complicated
>>to understand.

>I do see your point, that is a problem. In some groups,
>they aren't appropriate. As more and more newsreaders modernize,
>this will be less of a problem, I dare say.

>(Last commit for pan was August 27th.)

It's not really about a newsreader modernizing. It's about whether one
is communicating in plain text. If one requires an emoji to communicate,
that's not plain text communication.
>>>Some people like listening to the radio, some people like watching TV.

>>You're acting like someone whose has a radio can receive a television
>>broadcast.

>Or someone is acting like we should stick with radio, and never have
>television on any of the spectrum. :/

>Or we should stick with analog TV, instead of HDTV.

Radio and television are two entirely different media of communication.
I listen to radio comedies and dramas from decades ago because it was
entertaining. I watch television because it can be entertaining
(although all too rarely these days). I listen to modern radio
broadcasts. It's not either/or.

>>>>Way to completely miss the point.

>>>If you say so.

>>You've convinced me. You didn't miss the point. You are being obtuse,
>>willfully.

>No, I just don't share your views. And I don't think I've been
>rude to you, that wouldn't be called-for -- I just disagree.

Change doesn't require anybody to change well-known definitions nor to
throw out existing media of communications just because other people
communicate differently.

>BTW, if it matters: my first newsreader was rn
>on HP/UX 8. That was 1991. A lot has changed
>since then: it's a new millenium.

Of course the world has changed. That doesn't require me to stop
listening to radio or stop watching tv. You're clearly around my age, as
you ignore that kids today DO NOT watch tv. Everything they watch is on
the smart phone screen. They don't even use laptop computers and have no
idea what a desktop computer is, let alone a work station or (gasp) a
minicomputer or a mainframe. But because they use smart phone screens
doesn't require you to dispose of your tv sets.

Plain text is its own medium of communication. It uses words to
communicate. It doesn't rely on specific fonts nor enhancements like bold
and italic and underline. Emojis are something else entirely. So many
are created so quickly that it eludes me how anybody uses them to
communicate.

On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 19:15:37 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
wrote in <ud7uop$23kbh$1@dont-email.me>:

> vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:
>>Tue, 5 Sep 2023 16:11:38 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>>vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:
>>>>Tue, 5 Sep 2023 14:47:05 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
>
>>>>Hey, this doesn't have to be complicated. Some people like plain
>>>>ASCII.
>>>>Some people enjoy emojis, and can view them with their newsreader.
>
>>>No one not using a character set that includes emojis wants to receive
>>>emojis. Furthermore, if they quote characters they cannot display, the
>>>followup is messed up. Emojis are not plain text. It's not complicated
>>>to understand.
>
>>I do see your point, that is a problem. In some groups,
>>they aren't appropriate. As more and more newsreaders modernize, this
>>will be less of a problem, I dare say.
>
>>(Last commit for pan was August 27th.)
>
> It's not really about a newsreader modernizing. It's about whether one
> is communicating in plain text. If one requires an emoji to communicate,
> that's not plain text communication.

This is my second draft of this article, the first being lost in a tragic
pan accident.

I've set Followup-To: news.software.readers , since this discussion should
go there. (See RFC citations below.)

>
> Plain text is its own medium of communication. It uses words to
> communicate. It doesn't rely on specific fonts nor enhancements like
> bold and italic and underline. Emojis are something else entirely. So
> many are created so quickly that it eludes me how anybody uses them to
> communicate.

Executive summary: Standards for netnews user agents changed in 2009.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5536 [...]
2.3. MIME Conformance

User agents MUST meet the definition of MIME conformance in [RFC2049]
and MUST also support [RFC2231]. This level of MIME conformance
provides support for internationalization and multimedia in message
bodies [RFC2045], [RFC2046], and [RFC2231], and support for
internationalization of header fields [RFC2047] and [RFC2231]. Note
that [Errata] currently exist for [RFC2045], [RFC2046], [RFC2047] and
[RFC2231].
[...snip...]
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
And RFC 2049 section on MIME conformance:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2049#section-2 It's long; I won't
quote it, except for this part:

-- Recognize other character sets at least to the
extent of being able to inform the user about what character
set the message uses.

[ As an aside: if it's going to inform the user, it might as well ask if
it should run some helper program to display the RFC-compliant message
that the news agent can't handle. ]

Anyway, I wonder: what is the ratio of compliant to non-compliant
user agents on Usenet?

And we're talking about an RFC dtd 2009 -- how much longer
will the sage gentlepersons of Usenet yore be
demanding "ASCII only"...another 14 years? ;)

Followup-To: news.software.readers

--
-v

vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:
>Tue, 5 Sep 2023 19:15:37 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:
>>>Tue, 5 Sep 2023 16:11:38 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>>>vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:
>>>>>Tue, 5 Sep 2023 14:47:05 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:

>I've set Followup-To: news.software.readers , since this discussion should
>go there. (See RFC citations below.)

I have no interest in having any further discussion with people who play
Followup-To games. You crossposted, dude. If you thought the discussion
was off topic, then don't crosspost yourself. Control your own behavior.
Do not attempt to control anybody else's.

You can write all the RFCs you like. It doesn't force the user to change
newsreaders. This is a well-known issue that you simply refuse to
discuss. Your call.

There's nothing to read here. Adding emojis to UTF just because there's
"unlimited" room to encode new characters was entirely irrelevant to
internationalization, even if the way internationalization was done in
RFCs was actually desireable as was done.

You don't want to discuss what we're discussing. Your call.

vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> writes:

>Hey, this doesn't have to be complicated. Some people like plain
>ASCII. Some people enjoy emojis, and can view them with their
>newsreader.

>Some people like listening to the radio, some people
>like watching TV.

And other people like Fakebook and TicTack.
I'll stick to 7 bits, myself...

--
A host is a host from coast to coast...............wb8foz@panix.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 23:53:19 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
wrote in <ud8f1f$25rsc$1@dont-email.me>:

> vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:
>>Tue, 5 Sep 2023 19:15:37 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>>vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:
>>>>Tue, 5 Sep 2023 16:11:38 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>>>>vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:
>>>>>>Tue, 5 Sep 2023 14:47:05 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman
>>>>>><ahk@chinet.com>:
>
>>I've set Followup-To: news.software.readers , since this discussion
>>should go there. (See RFC citations below.)
>
> I have no interest in having any further discussion with people who play
> Followup-To games.

By continuing to crosspost, Adam tacitly indemnifies
that it belongs in the groups. So if you don't think this belongs
in news.groups -- blame Adam.

Further, he has expressed his displeasure with an
advisory header about where discussion about non-compliant
newsreaders would be on-topic. Rookie maneuver.

> You can write all the RFCs you like.

Adam is apparently confused: they aren't "my" RFCs,
they are _our_ RFCs. They are _the_ RFCs,
standards without which we wouldn't have a Usenet.

Since Adam snipped the portion about
his newsreader being obsolete, there's no
further discussion to be had with him: he
is not communicating in good faith. What
a shame.

--
-v

It is ASCII ! usenet originally is TEXT ASCII CHR

On Tue, 05 Sep 2023 12:58:09 GMT, vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> wrote:

>On Sat, 2 Sep 2023 14:47:24 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
>wrote in <ucvhtr$esg2$1@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On text Usenet, we post in plain text, and when writing in English, we use
>> ASCII. Why? ASCII is universal. ASCII is never mistranslated by anybody's
>> newsreader.
>
>("TINW". ;) (But this post is only 7-bit.)
>
>I'm not sure, but there might be an RFC expanding on that
>definition to include usage of UTF-8...and indeed,
>one GNKSAI newsreader (pan) includes the
>ability to insert an emoji in its editor.
>
>Wrote about this back in March in alt.fan.usenet:
>
>Message-ID: <pan$c9574$eaa8c0ab$897a78a7$8b3cb66@vallor.earth>
>
>One can also use emojis on an xfce4-terminal. I think most modern terminals
>will render them. The Linux tool "gnome characters" is helpful for
>copying emojis to the clipboard, if your newsreader is older.

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