Hello!

I just want to express why I switched my main desktop machine to Debian
yesterday.

I started using Ubuntu 14.04 the first time in sept 2015 on a ZBook 15
laptop. I was 14 at that time and I had enough from Windows.

In 2017 switched from my shuttle SK22G2 with Vista to an HP Compaq
DC7100. It had an Intel i915G chipset and it wasn't supported by
Windows 7, so I installed Lubuntu.

I replaced that machine and currently it is a Ryzen.

I had Ubuntu on it, but with a different desktop environment. First
LXDE, then mwm.
In 2018 I got a Dell Latitude D600 with Pentium M. Ubuntu discontinued
i686 support, so I switched to Debian in 2019. That was the first
Debian installation.
I got a Thinkpad X40 in 2022, I also use Debian on it. In 2022 I
switched from a laptop to a desktop at work and installed Debian.

Yesterday X11 was broken. This was the situation where I installed
Debian on my Ryzen machine.

Now the remaining Ubuntu systems are on Raspberry Pi and one desktop
computer (the DC7100 is now in use again).

Why did I replaced Ubuntu?
They discontinued i686 support, so I had to switch some machines.

The main reason is that I don't like the changes Canonical did in the
past years.

Things like snap are annoying, especially if they try to enforce users
to use it (e.g. for Firefox and Chromium). I am aware that I can use
3rd party repos, but I see no reason for staying on Ubuntu.

Another advantage of Debian is that there exists sid as a
rolling-release, although it might be a bit unstable.

On 12/24/22 22:03, Marco Moock wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I just want to express why I switched my main desktop machine to Debian
> yesterday.

Wow. Great! Good for you.
You're free to use whatever you want. No reason to whine.

Am 24.12.2022 um 22:09:32 Uhr schrieb stepore:

> On 12/24/22 22:03, Marco Moock wrote:
> > Hello!
> >
> > I just want to express why I switched my main desktop machine to
> > Debian yesterday.
>
> Wow. Great! Good for you.
> You're free to use whatever you want. No reason to whine.

I think it is good to point out why I moved away. I usually don't
change things without a reason.

On Sun, 25 Dec 2022 07:14:56 +0100, Marco Moock wrote:

> Am 24.12.2022 um 22:09:32 Uhr schrieb stepore:
>
>> On 12/24/22 22:03, Marco Moock wrote:
>>> Hello!
>>>
>>> I just want to express why I switched my main desktop machine
>>> to Debian yesterday.
>>
>> Wow. Great! Good for you.
>> You're free to use whatever you want. No reason to whine.
>
> I think it is good to point out why I moved away. I usually don't
> change things without a reason.

Yes, we appreciate these heart-warming tales on Christmas morning!

Season's greetings to all!

On 12/25/22 01:03, Marco Moock wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I just want to express why I switched my main desktop machine to Debian
> yesterday.
>
> I started using Ubuntu 14.04 the first time in sept 2015 on a ZBook 15
> laptop. I was 14 at that time and I had enough from Windows.
>
> In 2017 switched from my shuttle SK22G2 with Vista to an HP Compaq
> DC7100. It had an Intel i915G chipset and it wasn't supported by
> Windows 7, so I installed Lubuntu.
>
> I replaced that machine and currently it is a Ryzen.
>
> I had Ubuntu on it, but with a different desktop environment. First
> LXDE, then mwm.
> In 2018 I got a Dell Latitude D600 with Pentium M. Ubuntu discontinued
> i686 support, so I switched to Debian in 2019. That was the first
> Debian installation.
> I got a Thinkpad X40 in 2022, I also use Debian on it. In 2022 I
> switched from a laptop to a desktop at work and installed Debian.
>
> Yesterday X11 was broken. This was the situation where I installed
> Debian on my Ryzen machine.
>
> Now the remaining Ubuntu systems are on Raspberry Pi and one desktop
> computer (the DC7100 is now in use again).
>
> Why did I replaced Ubuntu?
> They discontinued i686 support, so I had to switch some machines.
>
> The main reason is that I don't like the changes Canonical did in the
> past years.
>
> Things like snap are annoying, especially if they try to enforce users
> to use it (e.g. for Firefox and Chromium). I am aware that I can use
> 3rd party repos, but I see no reason for staying on Ubuntu.
>
> Another advantage of Debian is that there exists sid as a
> rolling-release, although it might be a bit unstable.

My UbuntuStudio install is on death-row also, one of
the reasons being mandatory snaps, the other reason is
that any distro that does not let me log in as (or su to)
root is no longer one that I want to be associated with.
This isn't meant to knock Ubuntu, I'm sure it suits many
other users' needs, good for them. Afterwards I'm going
to shed and replace those that insist on hiding the
goings-on with an insulting and equally mandatory login
gui or DM, then anything with a mandatory systemd as well.
Note that the key word in all of these is 'mandatory',
Artix lets me use any one of I don't know, seems like
half a dozen, different init programs. I only need one
but the idea is monopoly interdiction.

https://i.imgur.com/iPAKNN5.png

On 12/25/22 10:17, bad sector wrote:
> My UbuntuStudio install is on death-row also, one of
> the reasons being mandatory snaps, the other reason is

I hate snaps as much as the next guy, but snaps are _not_ mandatory.
Hell, you can even remove the entire snap underpinnings.

> that any distro that does not let me log in as (or su to)
> root is no longer one that I want to be associated with.

<sigh>

And this too... nobody is stopping you to su to root either. Hell you
can even log in as root if you're so inclined.

On Sun, 25 Dec 2022 21:59:13 -0800, stepore wrote:

> On 12/25/22 10:17, bad sector wrote:
>> My UbuntuStudio install is on death-row also, one of the reasons being
>> mandatory snaps, the other reason is
>
> I hate snaps as much as the next guy, but snaps are _not_ mandatory.
> Hell, you can even remove the entire snap underpinnings.
>
>> that any distro that does not let me log in as (or su to)
>> root is no longer one that I want to be associated with.
>
> <sigh>
>
> And this too... nobody is stopping you to su to root either. Hell you
> can even log in as root if you're so inclined.

I'm not interested in being able to enter a song-and-dance
workaropund for what I want to se as the default. When the
distro system announces and prompts to click for updates
that have just become available then I want the snaps customer
to have to bend over backwards to get what s/he wants. When
there are NO such distros left THEN I will consider bending
the remaining fare to my liking.

Am 25.12.2022 um 13:17:39 Uhr schrieb bad sector:

> My UbuntuStudio install is on death-row also, one of
> the reasons being mandatory snaps, the other reason is
> that any distro that does not let me log in as (or su to)
> root is no longer one that I want to be associated with.

You can log in as root, you only need to set a password for it.

--
Gruß
Marco
PS: aioe is blocked at my side

Am 25.12.2022 um 21:59:13 Uhr schrieb stepore:

> On 12/25/22 10:17, bad sector wrote:
> > My UbuntuStudio install is on death-row also, one of
> > the reasons being mandatory snaps, the other reason is
>
> I hate snaps as much as the next guy, but snaps are _not_ mandatory.
> Hell, you can even remove the entire snap underpinnings.

True, but packages like chromium or firefox aren't available via apt
anymore and there is no real reason for that.
I assume Canonical wants to make users use snap.

Marco Moock wrote:
> schrieb stepore:
>
>> I hate snaps as much as the next guy, but snaps are _not_ mandatory.
>> Hell, you can even remove the entire snap underpinnings.
>
> True, but packages like chromium or firefox aren't available via apt
> anymore and there is no real reason for that.
> I assume Canonical wants to make users use snap.
>
Also anti-snap here...

I think Canonical's 'view' is that:
- Canonical uses its own repo/s 'derived' from Deb's, but not Deb's
- they think Snaps 'solves' the burdensome problems of maintaining
canonical packages for 'all kinds' of canonical stuff, and even that in
some ways snaps are 'better'
- Canonical has been guilty before of mistaking what is better and
what isn't, maybe Unity comes to mind; sorta better but not really,
depending on one's POV
- Mint does a good/excellent job of both following in Ub's/Canonical's
'footsteps' and in Deb's while still marching to their own drummers

So, while I'm sympathetic to the Canonical view, I reject it in favor of
the Mint view.

--
Mike Easter

Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 25.12.2022 um 21:59:13 Uhr schrieb stepore:
>
>> On 12/25/22 10:17, bad sector wrote:
>>> My UbuntuStudio install is on death-row also, one of
>>> the reasons being mandatory snaps, the other reason is
>>
>> I hate snaps as much as the next guy, but snaps are _not_ mandatory.
>> Hell, you can even remove the entire snap underpinnings.
>
> True, but packages like chromium or firefox aren't available via apt
> anymore and there is no real reason for that.
> I assume Canonical wants to make users use snap.
>

We that this not technically true. Running 22.04 with deb version for
firefox. I also uninstalled snapd and snap-store. If you do not want to
modify then there is always another distro to suit.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On 26/12/2022 23:52, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> Marco Moock wrote:
>> Am 25.12.2022 um 21:59:13 Uhr schrieb stepore:
>>
>>> On 12/25/22 10:17, bad sector wrote:
>>>> My UbuntuStudio install is on death-row also, one of
>>>> the reasons being mandatory snaps, the other reason is
>>>
>>> I hate snaps as much as the next guy, but snaps are _not_ mandatory.
>>> Hell, you can even remove the entire snap underpinnings.
>>
>> True, but packages like chromium or firefox aren't available via apt
>> anymore and there is no real reason for that.
>> I assume Canonical wants to make users use snap.
>>
>
> We that this not technically true. Running 22.04 with deb version for90.0.4430.212
> firefox. I also uninstalled snapd and snap-store. If you do not want to
> modify then there is always another distro to suit.
>

On my main-use, desktop, running Ubuntu 20.04 without snaps, but with both Firefox (v108.0.1) and Chromium
(v90.0.4430.212) installed by apt. Google/Duckduck/whatever are your friends.
So it is possible, and not difficult. Unfortunately still forces me to keep systemd.
OTOH on my stand-by PC and on my laptop, switched to MX linux: No systemd, no snap, and a really useful backup image
creator (memories of Remastersys)

--
No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.

Am 26.12.2022 um 16:52:16 Uhr schrieb Jonathan N. Little:

> We that this not technically true. Running 22.04 with deb version for
> firefox. I also uninstalled snapd and snap-store. If you do not want
> to modify then there is always another distro to suit.

True, it is possible to use a repo for FF and Chromium, but it is just
annoyance by Canonical. Other distros still provide deb packages for
FF/Chromium.

Am 27.12.2022 um 07:09:33 Uhr schrieb Henry Crun:

> On my main-use, desktop, running Ubuntu 20.04 without snaps, but with
> both Firefox (v108.0.1) and Chromium (v90.0.4430.212) installed by
> apt. Google/Duckduck/whatever are your friends.

In 22.04 3rd party repos are needed to install FF/Chromium via apt
because Canonical removed these packages from their apt repo.

On 2022-12-26 12:08, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 25.12.2022 um 13:17:39 Uhr schrieb bad sector:
>
>> My UbuntuStudio install is on death-row also, one of
>> the reasons being mandatory snaps, the other reason is
>> that any distro that does not let me log in as (or su to)
>> root is no longer one that I want to be associated with.
>
> You can log in as root, you only need to set a password for it.

how do I do that beginning with sudo? If I try I
get a prompt to change my user pwd, not root.

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>:
> I just want to express why I switched my main desktop machine to Debian
> yesterday.

Isn't Linux Mint the better Ubuntu?
;-)

Yrrah
(ducking)

On Tue, 27 Dec 2022 14:14:22 +0100
Yrrah <Yrrah-aolu@aolu.invalid> wrote:

> Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>:
>
> > I just want to express why I switched my main desktop machine to
> > Debian yesterday.
>
> Isn't Linux Mint the better Ubuntu?
> ;-)
>
> Yrrah
> (ducking)
>

In my opinion LMDE not. Here it works fine :)

Klaus

On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 18:09:10 +0100, Marco Moock wrote:

> True, but packages like chromium or firefox aren't available via
> apt anymore and there is no real reason for that. I assume
> Canonical wants to make users use snap.

You say that like it's a bad thing - why?

On 2022-12-27, bad sector <forgetski@invalid.net> wrote:
> On 2022-12-26 12:08, Marco Moock wrote:
>> Am 25.12.2022 um 13:17:39 Uhr schrieb bad sector:
>>
>>> My UbuntuStudio install is on death-row also, one of
>>> the reasons being mandatory snaps, the other reason is
>>> that any distro that does not let me log in as (or su to)
>>> root is no longer one that I want to be associated with.
>>
>> You can log in as root, you only need to set a password for it.
>
> how do I do that beginning with sudo? If I try I
> get a prompt to change my user pwd, not root.
>
>

In a term/console if you run
sudo -i
are you now at a root prompt?(In Ubuntu)
What happens when you run
passwd root
??

mechanic wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 18:09:10 +0100, Marco Moock wrote:
>
>> True, but packages like chromium or firefox aren't available via
>> apt anymore and there is no real reason for that. I assume
>> Canonical wants to make users use snap.
>
> You say that like it's a bad thing - why?
>

Because snap versions tend to launch very very slowly. They have been
improving this though, but still not as fast as the native.
--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

Yrrah wrote:
> Isn't Linux Mint the better Ubuntu?
> ;-)

And a pretty nice Cinnamon Deb :-)

--
Mike Easter

On 27 Dec 2022 14:02:49 GMT, Kirk_Rockstein wrote:

> On 2022-12-27, bad sector <forgetski@invalid.net> wrote:
>> On 2022-12-26 12:08, Marco Moock wrote:
>>> Am 25.12.2022 um 13:17:39 Uhr schrieb bad sector:
>>>
>>>> My UbuntuStudio install is on death-row also, one of the reasons
>>>> being mandatory snaps, the other reason is that any distro that does
>>>> not let me log in as (or su to)
>>>> root is no longer one that I want to be associated with.
>>>
>>> You can log in as root, you only need to set a password for it.
>>
>> how do I do that beginning with sudo? If I try I get a prompt to
>> change my user pwd, not root.
>>
> In a term/console if you run sudo -i are you now at a root prompt?(In
> Ubuntu)

I get a prompt for UserMe's password and THEN
the root prompt

> What happens when you run
> passwd root
> ??

that worked, thanks

I've never done this roundabout way before

Now I just need to do su and then root password,
same as on all (or almost all) my other distros

Another thing I miss a lot on all but the Suse
systems is the file-manager in root mode, it makes
a lot of footwork unnecessary. But this is not
an ubuntu issue, ONLY suse does it right.

bad sector wrote:
> On 2022-12-26 12:08, Marco Moock wrote:
>> Am 25.12.2022 um 13:17:39 Uhr schrieb bad sector:
>>
>>> My UbuntuStudio install is on death-row also, one of
>>> the reasons being mandatory snaps, the other reason is
>>> that any distro that does not let me log in as (or su to)
>>> root is no longer one that I want to be associated with.
>>
>> You can log in as root, you only need to set a password for it.
>
> how do I do that beginning with sudo?  If I try I
> get a prompt to change my user pwd, not root.
>
>
sudo su root

Am 27.12.2022 um 13:59:16 Uhr schrieb mechanic:

> On Mon, 26 Dec 2022 18:09:10 +0100, Marco Moock wrote:
>
> > True, but packages like chromium or firefox aren't available via
> > apt anymore and there is no real reason for that. I assume
> > Canonical wants to make users use snap.
>
> You say that like it's a bad thing - why?

Because snaps need more resources and are container-like (that can be
an advantage and a disadvantage).
For me it is more annoying than helpful.

Am 27.12.2022 um 08:06:58 Uhr schrieb bad sector:

> how do I do that beginning with sudo? If I try I
> get a prompt to change my user pwd, not root.

Try sudo passwd root, set the pw.

Then try to log in as root.