Adam H. Kerman wrote:

> Andy, your line boundaries are LF in lieu of CR LF, again.

Unfortunately seems out of my control, TB switches to base64 encoding
when I reply to [some?] messages containing utf-8 ...

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman wrote:

>>Andy, your line boundaries are LF in lieu of CR LF, again.

>Unfortunately seems out of my control, TB switches to base64 encoding
>when I reply to [some?] messages containing utf-8 ...

I hadn't looked for the base64 encoding, but yes I see it now. The two
issues seem to be connected for you but not for other people posting in
base64.

This is literally nonstandard. You'd think the Thunderbird programmers
would care.

Andy Burns wrote:

> Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>
>> Andy, your line boundaries are LF in lieu of CR LF, again.
>
> Unfortunately seems out of my control, TB switches to base64 encoding
> when I reply to [some?] messages containing utf-8 ...

The LF issue doesn't seem related to base64, all my posts here and
elsewhere have no CRs.

On 2024-02-14 16:41, Andy Burns wrote:
> Big Al wrote:
>
>> Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
>>
>>> -- Blue-Maned_Hawk│shortens to
>>> Hawk│/ blu.mɛin.dÊ°ak/
>>> │he/him/his/himself/Mr. blue-maned_hawk.srht.site
>>> Expensive and impractical!
>>
>> I hope someone can make sense from this.
>
> Mr Hawk knows that whatever characters he uses in his .sig don't play
> nice with the encoding declared in his headers, but continues to use
> them anyway ...

User-Agent: Pan/0.154 (Izium; 517acf4)

It would be the fault of that software for not recognizing the charset
of the signature and adapting.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>
>>>> HenHanna <HenHanna@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> GG https://groups.google.com doesn't seem to have this NG
>>>>> (alt.comp.software.thunderbird)
>>>>>
>>>>> WHY is that?
>>>>>
>>>>> if it did, it'd be at:
>>>>> groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.software.thunderbird
>>>>
>>>> They also don't carry:
>>>>
>>>> alt.comp.software.firefox alt.comp.os.windows-10
>>>> alt.comp.os.windows-11 alt.windows7.general
>>>>
>>>> GG doesn't carry all newsgroups available in Usenet. Won't matter in
>>>> another 15 days, anyway.
>>>
>>> That doesn't answer the question.
>>
>> Only because the answer isn't what you wanted. Those newsgroups are NOT
>> carried by Google Groups whether to agree or not with Google's choice.
>
> Even so, that is not an explanation of _why_.

Why do you think any of us know why?

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>On 2024-02-14 16:41, Andy Burns wrote:

>>>. . .

>>Mr Hawk knows that whatever characters he uses in his .sig don't play
>>nice with the encoding declared in his headers, but continues to use
>>them anyway ...

>User-Agent: Pan/0.154 (Izium; 517acf4)

>It would be the fault of that software for not recognizing the charset
>of the signature and adapting.

Bullshat, as the sockpuppet loves to say. Newsreaders don't necessarily
have adequate parsers. A .sigfile is created outside the composer. Maybe
the proto article in the composer gets parsed to see if the character set
declaration is correct. The .sigfiles gets appended after and isn't
parsed.

When it's been pointed out to you that what you are producing garbage,
it doesn't matter any longer that the parser built into the newsreader
is inadequate. You stop including tons of symbols in a .sigfile. When
you refuse to stop doing the bad things that you are doing, it's no
longer the fault of the newsreader.

The sockpuppet's .sigfile is filled with non-text. It's symbols. That's
another problem. In any event, it's not parsed. If it were, it would
fail if the parser were looking for text.

It's a problem. It's a well known problem. It's been explained to the
sockpuppet. But the problematic .sigfile is well known. At this point,
it's part of his trolling.

Carl Kaufmann wrote:

> Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> HenHanna <HenHanna@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> GG https://groups.google.com doesn't seem to have this NG
>>>>>> (alt.comp.software.thunderbird)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WHY is that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if it did, it'd be at:
>>>>>> groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.software.thunderbird
>>>>>
>>>>> They also don't carry:
>>>>>
>>>>> alt.comp.software.firefox alt.comp.os.windows-10
>>>>> alt.comp.os.windows-11 alt.windows7.general
>>>>>
>>>>> GG doesn't carry all newsgroups available in Usenet. Won't matter
>>>>> in another 15 days, anyway.
>>>>
>>>> That doesn't answer the question.
>>>
>>> Only because the answer isn't what you wanted. Those newsgroups are
>>> NOT carried by Google Groups whether to agree or not with Google's
>>> choice.
>>
>> Even so, that is not an explanation of _why_.
>
> Why do you think any of us know why?

I was not insinuating that anyone did—only asserting what the original
question was.

--
Blue-Maned_Hawk│shortens to
Hawk│/
blu.mɛin.dÊ°ak/
│he/him/his/himself/Mr.
blue-maned_hawk.srht.site
There's a thin line between landing and impact!

Yep, i can confirm that this diägnosis is correct.

--
Blue-Maned_Hawk│shortens to
Hawk│/
blu.mɛin.dÊ°ak/
│he/him/his/himself/Mr.
blue-maned_hawk.srht.site

On 2024-02-14 22:41, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
> Yep, i can confirm that this diägnosis is correct.
>
>

Still, it is your job to juggle with the signature file till it works
and we can read it.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Adam H. Kerman wrote:

> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>On 2024-02-14 16:41, Andy Burns wrote:
>
>>>>. . .
>
>>>Mr Hawk knows that whatever characters he uses in his .sig don't play
>>>nice with the encoding declared in his headers, but continues to use
>>>them anyway ...
>
>>User-Agent: Pan/0.154 (Izium; 517acf4)
>
>>It would be the fault of that software for not recognizing the charset
>>of the signature and adapting.
>
> Bullshat, as the sockpuppet loves to say. Newsreaders don't necessarily
> have adequate parsers. A .sigfile is created outside the composer. Maybe
> the proto article in the composer gets parsed to see if the character
> set declaration is correct. The .sigfiles gets appended after and isn't
> parsed.
>
> When it's been pointed out to you that what you are producing garbage,
> it doesn't matter any longer that the parser built into the newsreader
> is inadequate. You stop including tons of symbols in a .sigfile. When
> you refuse to stop doing the bad things that you are doing, it's no
> longer the fault of the newsreader.
>
> The sockpuppet's .sigfile is filled with non-text. It's symbols. That's
> another problem. In any event, it's not parsed. If it were, it would
> fail if the parser were looking for text.
>
> It's a problem. It's a well known problem. It's been explained to the
> sockpuppet. But the problematic .sigfile is well known. At this point,
> it's part of his trolling.

‘Sockpuppet’? You keep using that word, but i do not think it means what
you think it means. I've experienced that people use the term
‘sockpuppetry’ to refer to when multiple personæ are dont by a person,
with each one claiming they are not any of the others, and all but the
only one the persons owns that they are beïng termt as ‘sockpuppets’.

It seems like you've only recently started to use this word. It would
line up with a behavior i've seen in young teenagers where discovery of
something new, such as a new word, leads to them latching onto that word
and using it as frequently as possible to exercise it, even going so far
as to put it into situations where it doesn't really fit simply to have
another opportunity to use it, until eventually it's subsumed into their
regular speech as something as uninteresting as all of the rest of their
dialect.

You seem to me to be rather absolute about things, always wishing to
control things and make sure that things follow the rules you want them
to. You so frequently focus on the these things that you often ignore the
content of the posts in favor of that which is more superficial.

Maybe you do this because it's easy—after all, it can feel satisfying to
feel like you're in the right about something. But it's not rational,
because in the long term it is ultimately close to meaningless, and it is
ultimately an inefficient use of time and space. And in the long term, i
think it will ultimately lead to _less_ satisfaction overall.

It is the responsibility of any thing to behave as it claims it will. If
a person uses an object with the intent of doïng one thing and it does
some other thing, it is the fault of the object, not the fault of the user
of that thing. It is reasonable to expect something to behave correctly.

If you demojibake my sig, you'll see that it only uses a few
nonhumanlinguistic characters, a stark minority relative to all of the
humanlinguistic characters. Were it not for all the mojibaking, it would
be perfectly processible.

--
Blue-Maned_Hawk│shortens to
Hawk│/
blu.mɛin.dÊ°ak/
│he/him/his/himself/Mr.
blue-maned_hawk.srht.site
‘Bullshat’ is a verb anyway—‘to have bullshat’ is the pastẗense of ‘to
bullshit’.

Big Al <alan@invalid.com> wrote:

> Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
>
>> -- Blue-Maned_Hawk│shortens to Hawk│/
>> blu.mɛin.dÊ°ak/ │he/him/his/himself/Mr.
>> blue-maned_hawk.srht.site Expensive and impractical!
> I hope someone can make sense from this. Other than the last line and srht might be shirt.

He uses the X-Face header which he also UTF-8 encodes. Cutsy is for
children.

Pretends to participate here, but really wants to spam his site hence
his posts are spam.

He uses UTF-8 to encode control characters into his signature, like:
U+0082 for Break-Permitted-Here
U+0083 for No-Break-Here
U+0089 for Character-Tabulation-with-Justification (HTJ)
U+0094 for Cancel-Character
U+000D for Carriage-Return
U+000A for End-of-Line
U+002E for Full-Stop

Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>
>>>> HenHanna <HenHanna@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> GG https://groups.google.com doesn't seem to have this NG
>>>>> (alt.comp.software.thunderbird)
>>>>>
>>>>> WHY is that?
>>>>>
>>>>> if it did, it'd be at:
>>>>> groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.software.thunderbird
>>>>
>>>> They also don't carry:
>>>>
>>>> alt.comp.software.firefox alt.comp.os.windows-10
>>>> alt.comp.os.windows-11 alt.windows7.general
>>>>
>>>> GG doesn't carry all newsgroups available in Usenet. Won't matter in
>>>> another 15 days, anyway.
>>>
>>> That doesn't answer the question.
>>
>> Only because the answer isn't what you wanted. Those newsgroups are NOT
>> carried by Google Groups whether to agree or not with Google's choice.
>
> Even so, that is not an explanation of _why_.

Google reps doesn't visit Usenet. Go ask Google.

Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Carl Kaufmann wrote:
>
>> Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>
>>>> Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> HenHanna <HenHanna@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> GG https://groups.google.com doesn't seem to have this NG
>>>>>>> (alt.comp.software.thunderbird)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> WHY is that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> if it did, it'd be at:
>>>>>>> groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.software.thunderbird
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They also don't carry:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> alt.comp.software.firefox alt.comp.os.windows-10
>>>>>> alt.comp.os.windows-11 alt.windows7.general
>>>>>>
>>>>>> GG doesn't carry all newsgroups available in Usenet. Won't matter
>>>>>> in another 15 days, anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> That doesn't answer the question.
>>>>
>>>> Only because the answer isn't what you wanted. Those newsgroups are
>>>> NOT carried by Google Groups whether to agree or not with Google's
>>>> choice.
>>>
>>> Even so, that is not an explanation of _why_.
>>
>> Why do you think any of us know why?
>
> I was not insinuating that anyone did—only asserting what the original
> question was.

You didn't address the OP's "why", either. I figured out an additional
comment on my filter: obstreperous.

On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 17:19:28 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> HenHanna <HenHanna@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> GG https://groups.google.com doesn't seem to have this NG
>>>>>> (alt.comp.software.thunderbird)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WHY is that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if it did, it'd be at:
>>>>>> groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.software.thunderbird
>>>>>
>>>>> They also don't carry:
>>>>>
>>>>> alt.comp.software.firefox alt.comp.os.windows-10
>>>>> alt.comp.os.windows-11 alt.windows7.general
>>>>>
>>>>> GG doesn't carry all newsgroups available in Usenet. Won't matter in
>>>>> another 15 days, anyway.
>>>>
>>>> That doesn't answer the question.
>>>
>>> Only because the answer isn't what you wanted. Those newsgroups are NOT
>>> carried by Google Groups whether to agree or not with Google's choice.
>>
>> Even so, that is not an explanation of _why_.
>
>Google reps doesn't visit Usenet.

The org. has only one?

> Go ask Google.

Andy Burns wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>
>>> Andy, your line boundaries are LF in lieu of CR LF, again.
>>
>> Unfortunately seems out of my control, TB switches to base64 encoding
>> when I reply to [some?] messages containing utf-8 ...
>
> The LF issue doesn't seem related to base64, all my posts here and
> elsewhere have no CRs.

Not just mine, other TB users too, and emails as well as usenet, back to
at least v102 from a year ago, so it's not just a v115 thing.

How come nobody's noticed until recently?

On 2/15/2024 3:00 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Andy, your line boundaries are LF in lieu of CR LF, again.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately seems out of my control, TB switches to base64 encoding when I reply to [some?] messages containing utf-8 ...
>>
>> The LF issue doesn't seem related to base64, all my posts here and elsewhere have no CRs.
>
> Not just mine, other TB users too, and emails as well as usenet, back to at least v102 from a year ago, so it's not just a v115 thing.
>
> How come nobody's noticed until recently?
>

If you have the VMs for it, try changing OS and retest.

Isn't 115ESR supposed to run on Win7 ? Maybe you
could re-test there, and see if it behaves like that.

Thunderbird seems to have some "wash and rinse" behavior that
was added, but that's on incoming. I don't know if it alternates
between plaintext handling and HTML handing, when all you asked
for was plaintext handling when preparing a USENET posting.

Paul

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>Andy Burns wrote:
>>Andy Burns wrote:
>>>Adam H. Kerman wrote:

>>>>Andy, your line boundaries are LF in lieu of CR LF, again.

>>>Unfortunately seems out of my control, TB switches to base64 encoding
>>>when I reply to [some?] messages containing utf-8 ...
>>The LF issue doesn't seem related to base64, all my posts here and
>>elsewhere have no CRs.

>Not just mine, other TB users too, and emails as well as usenet, back to
>at least v102 from a year ago, so it's not just a v115 thing.

>How come nobody's noticed until recently?

It's the "advantage" of using an ancient newsreader. It decodes the
article body, but the "v" command -- used to display all headers --
prevents decoding from taking place. This lets me see raw text without
using a text editor.

As far as LF in lieu of CR LF, it doesn't know what to with a
nonstandard line boundary. I see ^M highlighted. It's quite noticeable.

And I deliberately misset the character set translation in the terminal
emulation if I want to make the invisible non-ASCII characters visible.

Who else but me would make all the nonstandard and unconventional
nonsense visible? It's easy to miss if you're not looking for it.

Paul wrote:

> I don't know if it alternates between plaintext handling and HTML
> handing, when all you asked for was plaintext handling when preparing
> a USENET posting.

You set the preferred plain or html format per account, then can trigger
the opposite format by holding shift when you start composing a message,
after that it's too late to change format.

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>On 2/15/2024 3:00 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>
>>>> Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Andy, your line boundaries are LF in lieu of CR LF, again.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately seems out of my control, TB switches to base64
>encoding when I reply to [some?] messages containing utf-8 ...
>>>
>>> The LF issue doesn't seem related to base64, all my posts here and
>elsewhere have no CRs.
>>
>> Not just mine, other TB users too, and emails as well as usenet, back
>to at least v102 from a year ago, so it's not just a v115 thing.
>>
>> How come nobody's noticed until recently?
>>
>
>If you have the VMs for it, try changing OS and retest.
>
>Isn't 115ESR supposed to run on Win7 ? Maybe you
>could re-test there, and see if it behaves like that.
>
>Thunderbird seems to have some "wash and rinse" behavior that
>was added, but that's on incoming. I don't know if it alternates
>between plaintext handling and HTML handing, when all you asked
>for was plaintext handling when preparing a USENET posting.

It's not an HTML thing. It's a UTF-8 thing triggering encoding, and then
the encoding process changing line boundaries to nonstandard.

On 2024-02-15 09:36, Andy Burns wrote:
>
> Paul wrote:
>
>> I don't know if it alternates between plaintext handling and HTML
>> handing, when all you asked for was plaintext handling when preparing
>> a USENET posting.
>
> You set the preferred plain or html format per account, then can trigger
> the opposite format by holding shift when you start composing a message,
> after that it's too late to change format.

WOW! I love that feature, thanks for telling. :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> You set the preferred plain or html format per account, then can
>> trigger the opposite format by holding shift when you start composing
>> a message, after that it's too late to change format.
>
> WOW! I love that feature, thanks for telling. :-)

I though everyone knew that one, just to be clear it works when
forwarding/replying as well as writing a new message.

VanguardLH wrote:

> Big Al <alan@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
>>
>>> -- Blue-Maned_Hawk│shortens to
>>> Hawk│/
blu.mɛin.dÊ°ak/
>>> │he/him/his/himself/Mr.
>>> blue-maned_hawk.srht.site Expensive and impractical!
>> I hope someone can make sense from this. Other than the last line and
>> srht might be shirt.
>
> He uses the X-Face header which he also UTF-8 encodes. Cutsy is for
> children.

This is also the fault of my newsreader, not myself.

> Pretends to participate here, but really wants to spam his site hence
> his posts are spam.

I do my best to make meaningful contributions; i do not seek to spam. The
link to my site is a single line in my signature, which i do not think can
reasonably be considered spam (since at least my newsreader marks the
signature right!).

--
Blue-Maned_Hawk│shortens to
Hawk│/
blu.mɛin.dÊ°ak/
│he/him/his/himself/Mr.
blue-maned_hawk.srht.site