On 13 Dec 2023 15:26:40 +0100 Jörg Knobloch wrote:
>On 13 Dec 2023 15:01, Dave Royal wrote:
>> And this: Firefox On the Brink?
>> <https://m.slashdot.org/story/422219>
>
>Ouch! Close to 2% in the US, that hurts. I had 6% in the back of my
>mind. It's certainly higher in some place in Europe, like Germany.
>
>Yes, I'm noticing sites where FF doesn't work, mostly banks or
>government where some access protocols they implemented (certificates,
>scripts, that stuff) don't work. So far it's not a problem to use Chrome
>or Edge on those sites.
>
>The other thing I've been wondering: I see more and more Instagram
>videos showing people how to save money by installing Chrome add-ons
>that will do price comparisons, like on Amazon show the price history of
>an item, or on Booking.com compare the price to the price on the hotel's
>own website. If those add-ons don't exist for FF, it's not exactly
>increasing FF's marketshare.

A big reason for decline in Fx market share is, I believe, due to the rise
of mobile, on on which Chrome and Safari are dominant. But neither runs
addons, which is the main advantage of Fx. I wonder if this is behind the
recent, belated, move to enable non-approved addons on Fx for Android?
That it might encourage the authors of those addons you mentioned to port
their addons to Fx.

--
(Remove numerics from email address)

Jörg Knobloch <jorgk@jorgk.com> wrote:

> Dave Royal wrote:
>
>> And this: Firefox On the Brink?
>> <https://m.slashdot.org/story/422219>
>
> Ouch! Close to 2% in the US, that hurts. I had 6% in the back of my
> mind. It's certainly higher in some place in Europe, like Germany.

Market share of web browsers:

USA
https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/all/united-states-of-america
FF: about 3.5%.

Europe
https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/all/europe
FF: about 5.2%

China
FF: about 1.5%

While Chrome is shown in all graphs as having the major market share,
also consider on which platforms. Smartphones surpassed desktop PC for
generating web traffic many years ago. Well, which web browsers come
pre-installed on smartphones which the vast majority of users will use
rather than install something else? On iOS, it's Apple's Safari. On
Android, it's Google's Chrome. Mobile platforms do most of the web
surfing since 2016.

https://gs.statcounter.com/platform-market-share/desktop-mobile-tablet/worldwide/#monthly-201601-202311

Safari is low compared to Chrome, because Android has more market share
than iOS.

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share#monthly-201601-202311

Ignore the blue line for Windows since it hasn't produced the majority
of web traffic since 2017. Look at how low is Edge's market share even
after Microsoft dropped EdgeHTML and Javascript and went to Chromium's
Blink rendering engine and V8 script interpreter which Chrome uses (Edge
became a Chrome variant with a different chrome and better security
settings).

It takes me about 6 add-ons to Chrome to get features of Firefox, but
without all the behavior and security settings afforded by about:config
in Firefox. Add-ons that purge locally cached data for Chrome cannot
execute on exit, so the cleanup is performed when Chrome is loaded.
Users, in most part, will use what is already bundled on their platform,
so Android users use Chrome, Apple users use Safari, and Windows users
use Edge. Firefox isn't bundled on any platform (well, not sure about
Linux for desktop PCs). Not sure Mozilla will ever convince mobile
device makers to pre-bundle FF on those platforms, or get Microsoft to
pre-bundle FF on Windows. Monopolizing a platform works very well to
effect hefty market share, so other web browsers get a pittance due to
ignorant or lazy users just using what they were given pre-bundled.
Most users don't job their own builds, either. They buy pre-builts.

On 12/13/23 04:46 PM, this is what VanguardLH wrote:
> Jörg Knobloch <jorgk@jorgk.com> wrote:
>
>> Dave Royal wrote:
>>
>>> And this: Firefox On the Brink?
>>> <https://m.slashdot.org/story/422219>
>>
>> Ouch! Close to 2% in the US, that hurts. I had 6% in the back of my
>> mind. It's certainly higher in some place in Europe, like Germany.
>
> Market share of web browsers:
>
> USA
> https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/all/united-states-of-america
> FF: about 3.5%.
>
> Europe
> https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/all/europe
> FF: about 5.2%
>
> China
> FF: about 1.5%
>
> While Chrome is shown in all graphs as having the major market share,
> also consider on which platforms. Smartphones surpassed desktop PC for
> generating web traffic many years ago. Well, which web browsers come
> pre-installed on smartphones which the vast majority of users will use
> rather than install something else? On iOS, it's Apple's Safari. On
> Android, it's Google's Chrome. Mobile platforms do most of the web
> surfing since 2016.
>
> https://gs.statcounter.com/platform-market-share/desktop-mobile-tablet/worldwide/#monthly-201601-202311
>
> Safari is low compared to Chrome, because Android has more market share
> than iOS.
>
> https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share#monthly-201601-202311
>
> Ignore the blue line for Windows since it hasn't produced the majority
> of web traffic since 2017. Look at how low is Edge's market share even
> after Microsoft dropped EdgeHTML and Javascript and went to Chromium's
> Blink rendering engine and V8 script interpreter which Chrome uses (Edge
> became a Chrome variant with a different chrome and better security
> settings).
>
> It takes me about 6 add-ons to Chrome to get features of Firefox, but
> without all the behavior and security settings afforded by about:config
> in Firefox. Add-ons that purge locally cached data for Chrome cannot
> execute on exit, so the cleanup is performed when Chrome is loaded.
> Users, in most part, will use what is already bundled on their platform,
> so Android users use Chrome, Apple users use Safari, and Windows users
> use Edge. Firefox isn't bundled on any platform (well, not sure about
> Linux for desktop PCs). Not sure Mozilla will ever convince mobile
> device makers to pre-bundle FF on those platforms, or get Microsoft to
> pre-bundle FF on Windows. Monopolizing a platform works very well to
> effect hefty market share, so other web browsers get a pittance due to
> ignorant or lazy users just using what they were given pre-bundled.
> Most users don't job their own builds, either. They buy pre-builts.
Firefox is the bundled browser on Linux, along with Thunderbird.

You can load Chrome, Edge, Safari, Opera, Seamonkey, and Vivaldi.
Evolution, Claws, Geary, Kmail, Bluemail and a few others for email.

--
Linux Mint 21.2 Cinnamon
Al

VanguardLH wrote:
[..snip..]
> Users, in most part, will use what is already bundled on their platform,
> so Android users use Chrome, Apple users use Safari, and Windows users
> use Edge. Firefox isn't bundled on any platform (well, not sure about
> Linux for desktop PCs).

They majority of popular Linux distributions include Firefox as their default
Internet browser. Because of open source, freedom, security, and so on.
(You get what i mean.)
But given the tiny market share of Linux overall, this won't change anything
for Firefox or Mozilla in general.

On 13/12/2023 at 14:41, Big Al wrote:
> On 12/13/23 05:34 AM, this is what Wilf wrote:
>> On 12/12/2023 at 22:37, Wilf wrote:
>>> On 12/12/2023 at 13:48, AllanH wrote:
>>>> Home Page
>>>> https://www.betterbird.eu/
>>>>
>>>> Release Notes
>>>> https://www.betterbird.eu/releasenotes/index.html
>>>
>>> Why would I want to move to Betterbird?  I'm happy with TB which has a
>>> large number of contributors I believe, whereas I think BB is very much
>>> driven by a single person.  That seems to me to be a potential problem
>>> for BB downstream.   Views, please?
>>
>> Thank you for the helpful replies.
>>
> I'm sure there is some feature diff, well almost sure.
> I duped my profile folder, changed as many path names in a few files (like prefs.js) from A to B and then tried it in a
> really quick test.
> I saw no difference between them. Of course this is it's purpose right?

That's interesting, thanks. Maybe any differences are rather esoteric.

Now if BB used the Gmail API to access Gmail accounts, as opposed to
IMAP, and was therefore able to display the Gmail labels attached to
each email, that would really encourage me to change. em Client does
this and it's a great feature, but there are reasons why I haven't taken
em Client onboard.
--
Wilf

On 13 Dec 2023 23:54, Wilf wrote:
>> I saw no difference between them.  Of course this is it's purpose right?
>
> That's interesting, thanks.  Maybe any differences are rather esoteric.

Hmm, well, if these are no differences, then I don't know what you want
or need:

https://www.betterbird.eu/#featuretable

Anyway, all the people who are happy with TB should absolutely stay with TB.

--
Viele Grüße, Jörg
Sent with Betterbird. Simply better. www.betterbird.eu
Es ist immer wieder erstaunlich: Kaum macht man's richtig, schon
funktioniert's!

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 00:28:23 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

>Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 17:03:04 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>
>>>Jörg Knobloch <jorgk@jorgk.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> AllanH wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Home Page
>>>>> https://www.betterbird.eu/
>>>>>
>>>>> Release Notes
>>>>> https://www.betterbird.eu/releasenotes/index.html
>>>>
>>>> A few new features this time:
>>>> Account colours (part 1), more layouts, attachment list on top during
>>>> compose, make tab restore optional.
>>>>
>>>> This version will ask for a donation once (per profile) only.
>>>
>>>Ah, I wasn't aware Betterbird (never used it, just interested in it) was
>>>donationware.
>>>
>>>https://www.betterbird.eu/donate/index.html
>>>
>>>Just *who* is Betterbird again?
>>
>>>What I've found is:
>>>
>>>https://www.betterbird.eu/faq/former.html
>>>
>>>Perhaps Jörg here is the Jörg mentioned there.
>>
>> Please pay attention! <g> That's been established in other OT TB
>> threads.
>
>I don't compile bios on anyone in Usenet. No one here is that important
>to me to waste that time and effort. If you think the topic has been
>discussed elswhere, and definitely proven, provide the MIDs for those
>articles instead of making vacuous claims. I visit this newsgroup. I
>don't live here.
>
>>> Hopefully, as you state, the donate nag appears just once, but might
>>> it reappear with each new version update.
>>
>> Even TB has begun pleading since SuperNova was released should a user
>> uninstall olde/download new/install new.
>>
>> Given Firefox doesn't, and Mozilla ain't exactly poor, I see no reason
>> for the nag.
>
>Well, as I recall, if you disable Firefox from doing its own update
>checks, you get nagged every time you load Firefox.

I fink you lost the thread. And you obfuscate with a (mostly needless
as usual) time-consuming nit-picking reply.

My comment wuz about *nag for money*: never for Firefox, now appearing
for Thunderbird.

FFox and TB are spread by the same foundation...

If you don't *use* them, relent on *advice*...

On 14/12/2023 at 01:03, Jörg Knobloch wrote:
> On 13 Dec 2023 23:54, Wilf wrote:
>>> I saw no difference between them.  Of course this is it's purpose right?
>>
>> That's interesting, thanks.  Maybe any differences are rather esoteric.
>
> Hmm, well, if these are no differences, then I don't know what you want
> or need:
>
> https://www.betterbird.eu/#featuretable
>
> Anyway, all the people who are happy with TB should absolutely stay with TB.
>

Thank you, That's very helpful.

--
Wilf

Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 00:28:23 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>
>>Nobody <jock@soccer.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 17:03:04 -0600, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Jörg Knobloch <jorgk@jorgk.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> AllanH wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Home Page
>>>>>> https://www.betterbird.eu/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Release Notes
>>>>>> https://www.betterbird.eu/releasenotes/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>> A few new features this time:
>>>>> Account colours (part 1), more layouts, attachment list on top during
>>>>> compose, make tab restore optional.
>>>>>
>>>>> This version will ask for a donation once (per profile) only.
>>>>
>>>>Ah, I wasn't aware Betterbird (never used it, just interested in it) was
>>>>donationware.
>>>>
>>>>https://www.betterbird.eu/donate/index.html
>>>>
>>>>Just *who* is Betterbird again?
>>>
>>>>What I've found is:
>>>>
>>>>https://www.betterbird.eu/faq/former.html
>>>>
>>>>Perhaps Jörg here is the Jörg mentioned there.
>>>
>>> Please pay attention! <g> That's been established in other OT TB
>>> threads.
>>
>>I don't compile bios on anyone in Usenet. No one here is that important
>>to me to waste that time and effort. If you think the topic has been
>>discussed elswhere, and definitely proven, provide the MIDs for those
>>articles instead of making vacuous claims. I visit this newsgroup. I
>>don't live here.
>>
>>>> Hopefully, as you state, the donate nag appears just once, but might
>>>> it reappear with each new version update.
>>>
>>> Even TB has begun pleading since SuperNova was released should a user
>>> uninstall olde/download new/install new.
>>>
>>> Given Firefox doesn't, and Mozilla ain't exactly poor, I see no reason
>>> for the nag.
>>
>>Well, as I recall, if you disable Firefox from doing its own update
>>checks, you get nagged every time you load Firefox.
>
> I fink you lost the thread. And you obfuscate with a (mostly needless
> as usual) time-consuming nit-picking reply.
>
> My comment wuz about *nag for money*: never for Firefox, now appearing
> for Thunderbird.
>
> FFox and TB are spread by the same foundation...
>
> If you don't *use* them, relent on *advice*...

FF and Tbird are *not* distributed by the same corporate entity. Both
are under the Mozilla Foundation, but separate corporations were
established: one for FF (Mozilla Corp) and one for Tbird (MZLA).

If you can't bother to determine who is distributing what, relent on
your *advice* ...

Big Al <Bears@invalid.com> wrote:

> On 12/13/23 04:46 PM, this is what VanguardLH wrote:
>> Jörg Knobloch <jorgk@jorgk.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dave Royal wrote:
>>>
>>>> And this: Firefox On the Brink?
>>>> <https://m.slashdot.org/story/422219>
>>>
>>> Ouch! Close to 2% in the US, that hurts. I had 6% in the back of my
>>> mind. It's certainly higher in some place in Europe, like Germany.
>>
>> Market share of web browsers:
>>
>> USA
>> https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/all/united-states-of-america
>> FF: about 3.5%.
>>
>> Europe
>> https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/all/europe
>> FF: about 5.2%
>>
>> China
>> FF: about 1.5%
>>
>> While Chrome is shown in all graphs as having the major market share,
>> also consider on which platforms. Smartphones surpassed desktop PC for
>> generating web traffic many years ago. Well, which web browsers come
>> pre-installed on smartphones which the vast majority of users will use
>> rather than install something else? On iOS, it's Apple's Safari. On
>> Android, it's Google's Chrome. Mobile platforms do most of the web
>> surfing since 2016.
>>
>> https://gs.statcounter.com/platform-market-share/desktop-mobile-tablet/worldwide/#monthly-201601-202311
>>
>> Safari is low compared to Chrome, because Android has more market share
>> than iOS.
>>
>> https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share#monthly-201601-202311
>>
>> Ignore the blue line for Windows since it hasn't produced the majority
>> of web traffic since 2017. Look at how low is Edge's market share even
>> after Microsoft dropped EdgeHTML and Javascript and went to Chromium's
>> Blink rendering engine and V8 script interpreter which Chrome uses (Edge
>> became a Chrome variant with a different chrome and better security
>> settings).
>>
>> It takes me about 6 add-ons to Chrome to get features of Firefox, but
>> without all the behavior and security settings afforded by about:config
>> in Firefox. Add-ons that purge locally cached data for Chrome cannot
>> execute on exit, so the cleanup is performed when Chrome is loaded.
>> Users, in most part, will use what is already bundled on their platform,
>> so Android users use Chrome, Apple users use Safari, and Windows users
>> use Edge. Firefox isn't bundled on any platform (well, not sure about
>> Linux for desktop PCs). Not sure Mozilla will ever convince mobile
>> device makers to pre-bundle FF on those platforms, or get Microsoft to
>> pre-bundle FF on Windows. Monopolizing a platform works very well to
>> effect hefty market share, so other web browsers get a pittance due to
>> ignorant or lazy users just using what they were given pre-bundled.
>> Most users don't job their own builds, either. They buy pre-builts.
> Firefox is the bundled browser on Linux, along with Thunderbird.
>
> You can load Chrome, Edge, Safari, Opera, Seamonkey, and Vivaldi.
> Evolution, Claws, Geary, Kmail, Bluemail and a few others for email.

Linux: 1.4% market share. An even worse platform when considering how
much Web traffic is produced by which web browsers. Linux is not where
Mozilla Corp needs to focus on FF market share, or MZLA should focus on
Tbird market share. If Mozilla Foundation wants to survive, they need
to target the *biggest* OSes.

The "FF on the brink" article mentions worldwide market share of various
web browsers, with FF at 2.2% which is perilously close to the 2% gov't
cutoff. What happens with Linux won't generate sufficient Web traffic
to effect FF's market share. Mozilla needs to stop focusing on Linux,
and start pushing their presence in the OSes with the largest market
share. Pretty sad when FF can't even edge out Edge.

On 12/14/2023 4:55 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Big Al <Bears@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> On 12/13/23 04:46 PM, this is what VanguardLH wrote:
>>> Jörg Knobloch <jorgk@jorgk.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dave Royal wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And this: Firefox On the Brink?
>>>>> <https://m.slashdot.org/story/422219>
>>>>
>>>> Ouch! Close to 2% in the US, that hurts. I had 6% in the back of my
>>>> mind. It's certainly higher in some place in Europe, like Germany.
>>>
>>> Market share of web browsers:
>>>
>>> USA
>>> https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/all/united-states-of-america
>>> FF: about 3.5%.
>>>
>>> Europe
>>> https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/all/europe
>>> FF: about 5.2%
>>>
>>> China
>>> FF: about 1.5%
>>>
>>> While Chrome is shown in all graphs as having the major market share,
>>> also consider on which platforms. Smartphones surpassed desktop PC for
>>> generating web traffic many years ago. Well, which web browsers come
>>> pre-installed on smartphones which the vast majority of users will use
>>> rather than install something else? On iOS, it's Apple's Safari. On
>>> Android, it's Google's Chrome. Mobile platforms do most of the web
>>> surfing since 2016.
>>>
>>> https://gs.statcounter.com/platform-market-share/desktop-mobile-tablet/worldwide/#monthly-201601-202311
>>>
>>> Safari is low compared to Chrome, because Android has more market share
>>> than iOS.
>>>
>>> https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share#monthly-201601-202311
>>>
>>> Ignore the blue line for Windows since it hasn't produced the majority
>>> of web traffic since 2017. Look at how low is Edge's market share even
>>> after Microsoft dropped EdgeHTML and Javascript and went to Chromium's
>>> Blink rendering engine and V8 script interpreter which Chrome uses (Edge
>>> became a Chrome variant with a different chrome and better security
>>> settings).
>>>
>>> It takes me about 6 add-ons to Chrome to get features of Firefox, but
>>> without all the behavior and security settings afforded by about:config
>>> in Firefox. Add-ons that purge locally cached data for Chrome cannot
>>> execute on exit, so the cleanup is performed when Chrome is loaded.
>>> Users, in most part, will use what is already bundled on their platform,
>>> so Android users use Chrome, Apple users use Safari, and Windows users
>>> use Edge. Firefox isn't bundled on any platform (well, not sure about
>>> Linux for desktop PCs). Not sure Mozilla will ever convince mobile
>>> device makers to pre-bundle FF on those platforms, or get Microsoft to
>>> pre-bundle FF on Windows. Monopolizing a platform works very well to
>>> effect hefty market share, so other web browsers get a pittance due to
>>> ignorant or lazy users just using what they were given pre-bundled.
>>> Most users don't job their own builds, either. They buy pre-builts.
>> Firefox is the bundled browser on Linux, along with Thunderbird.
>>
>> You can load Chrome, Edge, Safari, Opera, Seamonkey, and Vivaldi.
>> Evolution, Claws, Geary, Kmail, Bluemail and a few others for email.
>
> Linux: 1.4% market share. An even worse platform when considering how
> much Web traffic is produced by which web browsers. Linux is not where
> Mozilla Corp needs to focus on FF market share, or MZLA should focus on
> Tbird market share. If Mozilla Foundation wants to survive, they need
> to target the *biggest* OSes.
>
> The "FF on the brink" article mentions worldwide market share of various
> web browsers, with FF at 2.2% which is perilously close to the 2% gov't
> cutoff. What happens with Linux won't generate sufficient Web traffic
> to effect FF's market share. Mozilla needs to stop focusing on Linux,
> and start pushing their presence in the OSes with the largest market
> share. Pretty sad when FF can't even edge out Edge.

I don't think they focus.

They're cross-platform.

For example, with a few exceptions, a lot of platforms
have as an option, OpenGL for graphics. DirectX3D isn't supported
in FOSS programs (Firefox, LibreOffice, likely Chromium as well).
They design to a common denominator. And you'll notice both Chromium
and Firefox "bring their own toolkits with them". Their own certificates,
their own video decoders. And the reason for that is again, cross
platform, and compensating for the poorly-equipped environments.

I don't think there is anything to be gained, technically,
from say, making a DirectX3D browser. That would not be a
positive attribute in any case. Neither would sitting
on your ass and depending on SChannel, be a smooth move.
When the OS moves on and SChannel is no longer maintained,
a browser that brings toys with it, continues to run.
Which is exactly why Firefox LTS is now the "last man standing"
on the desktop of Windows 7 users (until end of support some
time in 2024).

Numerically, they need to be on Phones. Desktops are a joke
compared to the phone market. Desktops are yesterdays solution,
according to the people who run things. That's why I'm having
trouble playing the "Apple iTunes movie format" on *two* of
my competing news websites. It's passing strange that
both of them switched to some strange format, on practically
the same day... as if someone paid them to do it :-/

Paul

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 02:03:32 +0100, Jörg Knobloch wrote:
> Hmm, well, if these are no differences, then I don't know what you want
> or need:
>
> https://www.betterbird.eu/#featuretable

Wow! That's really quite impressive, and after standing on the
sidelines I guess I'm going to have to try out BB.

Just a note of two typos: in the Betterbird column, the third and
fourth lines from the end, "Or course" should be "Of course".

Yes, I had a proofreading job while in college, and it scarred me for
life. :-) I can't help noticing these things, in anyone's writing
except my own.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 02:03:32 +0100, Jörg Knobloch wrote:
> Hmm, well, if these are no differences, then I don't know what you want
> or need:
>
> https://www.betterbird.eu/#featuretable

Quoted from the web page under the pop-up feature list:

"One very disconcerting trend is becoming clear: More and more
functionality that existed for decades is being removed from
Thunderbird."

That is one of my pet peeves with Thunderbird and Firefox. It's
caused me to do most of my Web surfing on Chrome, and it looks like
driving me to replace TB with BB.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 09:06:55 -0800, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 02:03:32 +0100, Jörg Knobloch wrote:
> > Hmm, well, if these are no differences, then I don't know what you want
> > or need:
> >
> > https://www.betterbird.eu/#featuretable
>
> Wow! That's really quite impressive, and after standing on the
> sidelines I guess I'm going to have to try out BB.

Well, I did try it, and I have to say I'm disappointed on first
impression.

1. Copied my TB profile to a new location, and edited the
profiles.ini file to include the new profile. (I downloaded BB 115,
but my TB is on an earlier version. Presumably BB contains TB's code
to update profiles for a later program version.)

2. Added "-p" and the new profile name (from profiles.ini) to the
shortcut the installer created on my desktop.

3. Launched BB via that shortcut. About half my folders were missing.
I typically have Favorites view for my folders, and when I tried All
they were all there, thank goodness. Laboriously right-clicked on
each of a dozen or so folders and ticked the Favorite line. Then
switched back to Favorites view.

4. I have all folders set to sort by date, descending, threaded. BB
did use the sort-by-date and descending, but nothing was threaded. I
set that in one folder, right-clicked in a column header, and used
"Apply Current View to ..." to fix that. That worked, but I shouldn't
have had to do it.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On 14 Dec 2023 18:06, Stan Brown wrote:
> Just a note of two typos: in the Betterbird column, the third and
> fourth lines from the end, "Or course" should be "Of course".

Thanks, fixed.
Please can send us information about more typos via e-mail.

--
Viele Grüße, Jörg
Sent with Betterbird. Simply better. www.betterbird.eu
Es ist immer wieder erstaunlich: Kaum macht man's richtig, schon
funktioniert's!

On 14 Dec 2023 19:18, Stan Brown wrote:
> Well, I did try it, and I have to say I'm disappointed on first
> impression.

.... about the migration experience.

We suggest doing no migration and instead running BB on the TB profile.
That's published clearly on the website.

Why you lost your favourite folders is unclear. The favourite bit is
stored in the folder database (.msf) file and should have come
across[1]. It's also possible that something went wrong in the update
from the earlier TB version (which equally would have happened when
upgrading to TB 115).

[1]
https://searchfox.org/comm-central/rev/07edfb3aed9b73133c658e66df7490e9af6a1a83/mailnews/base/public/nsMsgFolderFlags.idl#111

--
Viele Grüße, Jörg
Sent with Betterbird. Simply better. www.betterbird.eu
Es ist immer wieder erstaunlich: Kaum macht man's richtig, schon
funktioniert's!

Am 14.12.23 um 22:14 schrieb Jörg Knobloch:
> On 14 Dec 2023 19:18, Stan Brown wrote:
>> Well, I did try it, and I have to say I'm disappointed on first
>> impression.
>
> ... about the migration experience.
>
> We suggest doing no migration and instead running BB on the TB profile.
> That's published clearly on the website.

I did that a couple of times on Macs and on Linux. Works perfectly.

> Why you lost your favourite folders is unclear. The favourite bit is
> stored in the folder database (.msf) file and should have come
> across[1]. It's also possible that something went wrong in the update
> from the earlier TB version (which equally would have happened when
> upgrading to TB 115).

Easiest would be to copy the whole TB-profile-folder, rename it and run
BB on it. Is facilitated by the profilemanager.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:18:42 -0800, Stan Brown wrote:
>
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 09:06:55 -0800, Stan Brown wrote:
> > On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 02:03:32 +0100, Jörg Knobloch wrote:
> > > Hmm, well, if these are no differences, then I don't know what you want
> > > or need:
> > >
> > > https://www.betterbird.eu/#featuretable
> >
> > Wow! That's really quite impressive, and after standing on the
> > sidelines I guess I'm going to have to try out BB.
>
> Well, I did try it, and I have to say I'm disappointed on first
> impression.

As I think Jörg observed in a different article, my disappointments
were with transitional stuff, not continuing stuff. (A bunch of
folders also lost the check mark on "When getting new messages for
this account, always check this folder." I think they're the same
ones that lost their Favorite status, but I'm not sure. It was a
nuisance opening the Properties dialog for every single folder and
re-ticking the boxes that had been unticked, but it's Thunderbird's
design so I don't blame Betterbird for that.)

Things I've noticed so far that I like:

* "Clear cache on exit" has been restored to Settings.

* Circled numbers next to folders show number of new messages.

* BB remembers that I collapsed all threads, and reopens folders in
that same status. That is a _big_ improvement; TB seemed to use
random numbers to decide whether each thread was collapsed when I
opened the folder.

* A few weeks ago, TB started showing one new message in Trash
folder in the folder list, even if there were only read messages, or
after I emptied it. BB doesn't do that, thankfully.

* The very minimal spacing between lines in the message list and the
folder list was jarring at first, but I'm growing to like it because
it saves a lot of space. (Reminder: I'm comparing BB 115 to TB 102.
If I remember right, TB 115 changed line heights so maybe its default
is "Compact" also.)

Aside from the gitches on first use, I haven't seen anything that I
don't like.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Sun, 17 Dec 2023 09:32:50 -0800, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:18:42 -0800, Stan Brown wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 09:06:55 -0800, Stan Brown wrote:
>> > On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 02:03:32 +0100, Jörg Knobloch wrote:
>> > > Hmm, well, if these are no differences, then I don't know what you want
>> > > or need:
>> > >
>> > > https://www.betterbird.eu/#featuretable
>> >
>> > Wow! That's really quite impressive, and after standing on the
>> > sidelines I guess I'm going to have to try out BB.
>>
>> Well, I did try it, and I have to say I'm disappointed on first
>> impression.

<snip>

>Things I've noticed so far that I like:

>* Circled numbers next to folders show number of new messages.

Huh? TB 115.5.2 on Win 11 shows those... and both the folder name(s)
and numbers are *bold*.

On Sun, 17 Dec 2023 10:27:19 -0800, Nobody wrote:
>
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2023 09:32:50 -0800, Stan Brown
> <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> <snip>

And part of what you snipped was:
"Reminder: I'm comparing BB 115 to TB 102."
Granted, it was buried in the last of my bullets.

>
> >Things I've noticed so far that I like:
>
> >* Circled numbers next to folders show number of new messages.
>
> Huh? TB 115.5.2 on Win 11 shows those... and both the folder name(s)
> and numbers are *bold*.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Sun, 17 Dec 2023 11:50:13 -0800, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Dec 2023 10:27:19 -0800, Nobody wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2023 09:32:50 -0800, Stan Brown
>> <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>
>And part of what you snipped was:
>"Reminder: I'm comparing BB 115 to TB 102."

'zactly.

So, had you saved your precious 102-based profile... allowed TB to
update to TB 115?

>Granted, it was buried in the last of my bullets.
>
>>
>> >Things I've noticed so far that I like:

You would have seen...

>>
>> >* Circled numbers next to folders show number of new messages.

The latest TB works... sends mail... gets mail... follows news
groups... allows posting to news groups.