On 2021-06-26 4:55 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
> On 6/26/2021 2:37 PM, Joel wrote:
>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> However I hate the Dell desktop keyboards, not because of problems
>>> with them, but because of their design. I don't know why Dell makes
>>> non-standard keyboards.
>>
>>
>> That's a good example of why I prefer to self-assemble a computer, I
>> don't want to be handheld by an OEM, with their peripherals with the
>> corporate name all over the parts.  Not to say that's the *only*
>> reason, by a long shot, but it illustrates the overall point.
>
>
>
> I used to self-assemble computer, but I no longer do, primarily for two
> reasons:
>
> 1. At my age, I am now close to all thumbs.
>
> 2. If something doesn't work, I want somebody else to troubleshoot it.
>
> But I don't buy brand-name computers. I pick the components and have
> somebody else assemble them.
>
>

I am still able to build them, Built 2 last fall for my son and I, My
fingers still work OK but my eyesight is really bad, makes it kind of
hard, but I persevere, that will probably be my last 2 builds,But What
can you expect at 87 years old. :-)

Rene

In alt.windows7.general Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> wrote:
....
> I am still able to build them, Built 2 last fall for my son and I, My
> fingers still work OK but my eyesight is really bad, makes it kind of
> hard, but I persevere, that will probably be my last 2 builds,But What
> can you expect at 87 years old. :-)

That's impressive. Did it take long to build them?
--
The last baby bird left its nest as of 6/25/2021 at 10:13 AM PDT! :O Go L.A. Clippers! Beat those hot Suns! :P
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
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/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

On 26/06/2021 22:55, Ken Blake wrote:
>
>
>
> I used to self-assemble computer, but I no longer do, primarily for
> two reasons:
>
> 1. At my age, I am now close to all thumbs.
>
> 2. If something doesn't work, I want somebody else to troubleshoot it.
>
> But I don't buy brand-name computers. I pick the components and have
> somebody else assemble them.

Is this what you need to build a computer?

Case
CPU
Memory modules
Main board
HD Cables
Power unit
Hard disk
Thermal paste
Additional internal fans - optional

Is there anything missing from the list?

Sruti formulated the question :
> On 26/06/2021 22:55, Ken Blake wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I used to self-assemble computer, but I no longer do, primarily for two
>> reasons:
>>
>> 1. At my age, I am now close to all thumbs.
>>
>> 2. If something doesn't work, I want somebody else to troubleshoot it.
>>
>> But I don't buy brand-name computers. I pick the components and have
>> somebody else assemble them.
>
> Is this what you need to build a computer?
>
> Case
> CPU
> Memory modules
> Main board
> HD Cables
> Power unit
> Hard disk
> Thermal paste
> Additional internal fans - optional
>
> Is there anything missing from the list?

Neon lights?

Seriously though, audio board, graphics board - a lot depends upon what
usage it will have.

On 2021-06-26 5:54 p.m., FromTheRafters wrote:
> Sruti formulated the question :
>> On 26/06/2021 22:55, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I used to self-assemble computer, but I no longer do, primarily for
>>> two reasons:
>>>
>>> 1. At my age, I am now close to all thumbs.
>>>
>>> 2. If something doesn't work, I want somebody else to troubleshoot it.
>>>
>>> But I don't buy brand-name computers. I pick the components and have
>>> somebody else assemble them.
>>
>> Is this what you need to build a computer?
>>
>> Case
>> CPU
>> Memory modules
>> Main board
>> HD Cables
>> Power unit
>> Hard disk
>> Thermal paste
>> Additional internal fans - optional
>>
>> Is there anything missing from the list?
>
> Neon lights?
>
> Seriously though, audio board, graphics board - a lot depends upon what
> usage it will have.

CPU cooler is a must
NVMe or SSD for C; drive
CPU graphics are good unless for heavy gaming, then video card
No need for sound card, onboard sound is good

Accessories, Keyboard, Mouse Speakers and a good monitor
If you have some good parts on hand use them to cut cost.

Rene

On 2021-06-26 5:09 p.m., Ant wrote:
> In alt.windows7.general Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> wrote:
> ...
>> I am still able to build them, Built 2 last fall for my son and I, My
>> fingers still work OK but my eyesight is really bad, makes it kind of
>> hard, but I persevere, that will probably be my last 2 builds,But What
>> can you expect at 87 years old. :-)
>
> That's impressive. Did it take long to build them?
>

About 4 hrs each, then an hour or to to install and tune Windows 10.
This does not include reading the Motherboard manual end to end,
Which is done as step 1 the day before and which I consider a must do.

Rene

On 6/26/2021 3:05 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2021-06-26 4:55 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 6/26/2021 2:37 PM, Joel wrote:
>>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> However I hate the Dell desktop keyboards, not because of problems
>>>> with them, but because of their design. I don't know why Dell makes
>>>> non-standard keyboards.
>>>
>>>
>>> That's a good example of why I prefer to self-assemble a computer, I
>>> don't want to be handheld by an OEM, with their peripherals with the
>>> corporate name all over the parts.  Not to say that's the *only*
>>> reason, by a long shot, but it illustrates the overall point.
>>
>>
>>
>> I used to self-assemble computer, but I no longer do, primarily for two
>> reasons:
>>
>> 1. At my age, I am now close to all thumbs.
>>
>> 2. If something doesn't work, I want somebody else to troubleshoot it.
>>
>> But I don't buy brand-name computers. I pick the components and have
>> somebody else assemble them.
>>
>>
>
> I am still able to build them, Built 2 last fall for my son and I, My
> fingers still work OK but my eyesight is really bad, makes it kind of
> hard, but I persevere, that will probably be my last 2 builds,

I *might* still be able to build them. But I don't want to run the risk
of screwing things up.

My fingers still work OK playing classical guitar, but that's different
from building computers.

> But What
> can you expect at 87 years old. :-)

I think you're the only person here older than me.

--
Ken

On 6/26/2021 3:20 PM, Sruti wrote:
> On 26/06/2021 22:55, Ken Blake wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I used to self-assemble computer, but I no longer do, primarily for
>> two reasons:
>>
>> 1. At my age, I am now close to all thumbs.
>>
>> 2. If something doesn't work, I want somebody else to troubleshoot it.
>>
>> But I don't buy brand-name computers. I pick the components and have
>> somebody else assemble them.
>
> Is this what you need to build a computer?
>
> Case
> CPU
> Memory modules
> Main board
> HD Cables
> Power unit
> Hard disk
> Thermal paste
> Additional internal fans - optional
>
> Is there anything missing from the list?

CPU fan (or water cooler)
CD/DVD drive (optional, but I want one)
SSD or NvME drive(s)
Graphics Card (optional)

--
Ken

On 6/26/2021 4:18 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2021-06-26 5:54 p.m., FromTheRafters wrote:
>> Sruti formulated the question :
>>> On 26/06/2021 22:55, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I used to self-assemble computer, but I no longer do, primarily for
>>>> two reasons:
>>>>
>>>> 1. At my age, I am now close to all thumbs.
>>>>
>>>> 2. If something doesn't work, I want somebody else to troubleshoot it.
>>>>
>>>> But I don't buy brand-name computers. I pick the components and have
>>>> somebody else assemble them.
>>>
>>> Is this what you need to build a computer?
>>>
>>> Case
>>> CPU
>>> Memory modules
>>> Main board
>>> HD Cables
>>> Power unit
>>> Hard disk
>>> Thermal paste
>>> Additional internal fans - optional
>>>
>>> Is there anything missing from the list?
>>
>> Neon lights?
>>
>> Seriously though, audio board, graphics board - a lot depends upon what
>> usage it will have.

Yes.

> CPU cooler is a must

Yes.

> NVMe or SSD for C; drive

Yes. Not a must, but very desirable. Especially NVMe. I don't think I'd
buy a SSD anymore.

> CPU graphics are good unless for heavy gaming, then video card

Yes, I probably won't get a video card, unless I can find something very
good at a very attractive price.

> No need for sound card, onboard sound is good

Yes, it's fine here.

> Accessories, Keyboard, Mouse Speakers and a good monitor
> If you have some good parts on hand use them to cut cost.

I have all those in your last paragraph. The only things I'd like to
replace are my two 24"monitors. I'd like one or two much bigger ones,
but it's unlikely that I would spend the money for it/them. I'll stick
with what I have.

Unless more information to the contrary comes out between now and then,
I'll probably try upgrading to 11 before I upgrade the hardware.

--
Ken

On 2021-06-26 6:28 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
> On 6/26/2021 3:05 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>> On 2021-06-26 4:55 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On 6/26/2021 2:37 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> However I hate the Dell desktop keyboards, not because of problems
>>>>> with them, but because of their design. I don't know why Dell makes
>>>>> non-standard keyboards.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's a good example of why I prefer to self-assemble a computer, I
>>>> don't want to be handheld by an OEM, with their peripherals with the
>>>> corporate name all over the parts.  Not to say that's the *only*
>>>> reason, by a long shot, but it illustrates the overall point.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I used to self-assemble computer, but I no longer do, primarily for
>>> two reasons:
>>>
>>> 1. At my age, I am now close to all thumbs.
>>>
>>> 2. If something doesn't work, I want somebody else to troubleshoot it.
>>>
>>> But I don't buy brand-name computers. I pick the components and have
>>> somebody else assemble them.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I am still able to build them, Built 2 last fall for my son and I, My
>> fingers still work OK but my eyesight is really bad, makes it kind of
>> hard, but I persevere, that will probably be my last 2 builds,
>
>
> I *might* still be able to build them. But I don't want to run the risk
> of screwing things up.
>
> My fingers still work OK playing classical guitar, but that's different
> from building computers.
>
>
>
> > But What
> > can you expect at 87 years old. :-)
>
>
> I think you're the only person here older than me.
>
>

Congratulation on the guitar playing, Something I tried to learn yet
could never do, the other thing is typing, Much as I tried I just could
not coordinate my fingers to those 2 tasks.
Yet I can build anything from Astronomical telescopes to engines
,circuit boards Arc welders any electronic gear or whatever crosses my
mind.

Rene

On 2021-06-26, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
> Yes. Not a must, but very desirable. Especially NVMe. I don't think I'd
> buy a SSD anymore.

None of my PCs are new enough to support NVMe. I'm too cheap to buy/build a new
computer since my old ones do everything I need and SSD is plenty fast for my
purposes. (I would go NVMe though if I needed to buy something new unless it
was a lot more expensive.)

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

18 Reasons I won't be vaccinated -- https://tinyurl.com/ebty2dx3
Covid vaccines: experimental biology -- https://tinyurl.com/57mncfm5
The fraud of "Climate Change" -- https://RealClimateScience.com
Don't talk to cops! -- https://DontTalkToCops.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ken Blake wrote:
> On 6/26/2021 4:18 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:

>> CPU graphics are good unless for heavy gaming, then video card
>
>
> Yes, I probably won't get a video card, unless I can find something very
> good at a very attractive price.

The Intel graphics don't come with driver updates
for as long as an NVidia or AMD card might. The latter
two are six years. Which means you want to catch cards
being released as brand new silicon, to get the best support.
It doesn't matter that it's a gamer card - what matters is
you're getting driver support.

My Optiplex refurb, yes, Windows Update does install an Intel
driver when you install Windows 10. But there's no
control panel to position Monitor 1 next to Monitor 2.
And the driver is old as the hills and probably eight
versions of WDDM too old.

Support is getting so shabby, these might as well
be SmartPhones.

Intel could sell you a standalone video card... but
what is their support policy on those ? Have they
even figured out their support policy yet ?

The NVidia and AMD cards, even the lowest end ones,
are two-slot cards and porkers. The era of "2D desktop cards"
seems to be gone now. You can't buy anything to directly
compete with Intel HD graphics, which has reasonable
dimensions and some capabilities. In fact, some ancient
pieces of silicon have started shipping again (GT730?)
in an attempt to "give the market something to buy".
Pretty pathetic. I can't see how driver support works
for that, as they're EOL. It's like buying a lump of coal.

Paul

On 2021-06-26 7:01 p.m., Roger Blake wrote:
> On 2021-06-26, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>> Yes. Not a must, but very desirable. Especially NVMe. I don't think I'd
>> buy a SSD anymore.
>
> None of my PCs are new enough to support NVMe. I'm too cheap to buy/build a new
> computer since my old ones do everything I need and SSD is plenty fast for my
> purposes. (I would go NVMe though if I needed to buy something new unless it
> was a lot more expensive.)
>

Both of my last builds have NVMe's my sons has a 256 GB and mine has 2
256 GB
plus each has a 256 GB SSD and a 1 TB spinning drive, most new M/Bs now
come with 2 NVMe sockets, and the price of these tiny drives is fairly
reasonable.

Rene

Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> wrote:
>On 2021-06-26 7:01 p.m., Roger Blake wrote:
>>
>> None of my PCs are new enough to support NVMe. I'm too cheap to buy/build a new
>> computer since my old ones do everything I need and SSD is plenty fast for my
>> purposes. (I would go NVMe though if I needed to buy something new unless it
>> was a lot more expensive.)
>
>Both of my last builds have NVMe's my sons has a 256 GB and mine has 2
>256 GB
>plus each has a 256 GB SSD and a 1 TB spinning drive, most new M/Bs now
>come with 2 NVMe sockets, and the price of these tiny drives is fairly
>reasonable.

I put a 1 TB NVMe SSD in my new box, no other storage drive, no
optical drive. The SSD was $110 from Newegg. I bought my first 1 TB
hard drive in 2009, and never needed anything larger.

--
Joel Crump

On 6/26/2021 4:46 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
> On 2021-06-26 6:28 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 6/26/2021 3:05 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>> On 2021-06-26 4:55 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> On 6/26/2021 2:37 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> However I hate the Dell desktop keyboards, not because of problems
>>>>>> with them, but because of their design. I don't know why Dell makes
>>>>>> non-standard keyboards.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a good example of why I prefer to self-assemble a computer, I
>>>>> don't want to be handheld by an OEM, with their peripherals with the
>>>>> corporate name all over the parts.  Not to say that's the *only*
>>>>> reason, by a long shot, but it illustrates the overall point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I used to self-assemble computer, but I no longer do, primarily for
>>>> two reasons:
>>>>
>>>> 1. At my age, I am now close to all thumbs.
>>>>
>>>> 2. If something doesn't work, I want somebody else to troubleshoot it.
>>>>
>>>> But I don't buy brand-name computers. I pick the components and have
>>>> somebody else assemble them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I am still able to build them, Built 2 last fall for my son and I, My
>>> fingers still work OK but my eyesight is really bad, makes it kind of
>>> hard, but I persevere, that will probably be my last 2 builds,
>>
>>
>> I *might* still be able to build them. But I don't want to run the risk
>> of screwing things up.
>>
>> My fingers still work OK playing classical guitar, but that's different
>> from building computers.
>>
>>
>>
>> > But What
>> > can you expect at 87 years old. :-)
>>
>>
>> I think you're the only person here older than me.
>>
>>
>
> Congratulation on the guitar playing,

Thanks.

> Something I tried to learn yet
> could never do,

I'm still taking lessons weekly. I'm a long way from being professional,
but I'm a pretty advanced amateur. I can play several pretty difficult
pieces, including my favorite, the Tàrrega "Capricho Arabe."

> the other thing is typing, Much as I tried I just could
> not coordinate my fingers to those 2 tasks.

30 or so years ago I tried to learn to type using Mavis Beacon software.
I was doing OK, but I got tired of practicing, finally decided it wasn't
worth the trouble for me, and gave it up.

I type in a very unstandard manner, using just a few fingers. I'm pretty
fast, but I have to look at the keyboard. Typing without looking at the
keyboard is necessary for secretaries who have to look at what their
boss wrote, but not for me.

> Yet I can build anything from Astronomical telescopes

It was about 60 years ago that I started to grind a 6" mirror, but I
never finished. It was a very boring process.

> to engines
> ,circuit boards Arc welders any electronic gear or whatever crosses my
> mind.

I did build a harpsichord, though, also about 60 years ago. It was from
a Zuckerman kit, and when finished it looked almost exactly like this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/164888404452?hash=item26641d61e4:g:0V8AAOSwVThgsXWF

Later I built a treble viol and an Appalachian Dulcimer.

And back in my early teenage years, I wanted to be a radio amateur, and
built several devices, including a transmitter and a receiver.

I later built my own stereo amplifiers and tuner from kits.

I gave up wanting to be a radio amateur when I decided I wanted to be
World Chess Champion and devoted all my time and effort to that. I never
got to be anywhere near strong enough, but I became a pretty good
amateur. I knew, played against, and sometimes drew with or beat some of
the best players (including Bobby Fischer). 15 or 20 years ago, I taught
chess in a couple of local schools for a few years, but I almost never
play anymore. I think my last tournament was around 55 years ago, and
even my last offhand game was about 15 years ago.

--
Ken

On 6/26/2021 9:45 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 11:21:45 -0400, Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
>
>> I haven’t bought a Dell for personal use for over 20 years. I convinced the
>> company to not buy Dells by stacking up a few of the many hard drives killed
>> by heat in two generations of Dell ‘business’ systems. After accounting
>> saw just how many dead drives we’d accumulated, Dell was off the approved
>> purchasing lisy, thank you, Jesus. Those who had to deal with Optiplex towers
>> and minitowers a decade ago will know exactly what I’m talking about.
>>
>> Certain members of my family have looked at the nice low price and bought
>> Dells, against my advice; only one is still operational, a laptop purchased
>> in 2018 and whose battery is at 81% of design capacity, and whose hard drive
>> was replaced by a SSD. And, yes, the dead drive died due to heat. Dell kills
>> drives by overheating them, laptop, desktop, whatever.
>>
>> I hate Dell.
>
> I know this is a "I hate Dell" thread, but my personal/primary laptop is a
> Dell Inspiron 15R SE 7520, bought in early 2013. I've had absolutely no
> issues with it and would gladly buy another Dell laptop. I've never used a
> Dell desktop, so I don't know about that.
>
> My other laptop is an HP dv7-6185, bought in mid-2009. On that one, the
> speakers and the WiFi module died a couple years ago. Since then, we use
> external speakers, which is fine because the laptop rarely moves, and a USB
> WiFi dongle. The WiFi dongle is an upgrade, since it covers both the 2.4
> and the 5GHz bands, whereas the internal WiFi only covered 2.4GHz.
>

I bought a Dell Inspiron 660 in 2013. It still works great.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Beyond Meat and other such vegetarian meat substitutes
represent the ultimate in ultra-processed foods. Real
meat is natural. Beyond Meat is definitely not.

On 2021-06-26 7:27 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
> On 6/26/2021 4:46 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>> On 2021-06-26 6:28 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On 6/26/2021 3:05 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
>>>> On 2021-06-26 4:55 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>>>>> On 6/26/2021 2:37 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>>>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However I hate the Dell desktop keyboards, not because of
>>>>>>> problems with them, but because of their design. I don't know why
>>>>>>> Dell makes non-standard keyboards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's a good example of why I prefer to self-assemble a computer, I
>>>>>> don't want to be handheld by an OEM, with their peripherals with the
>>>>>> corporate name all over the parts.  Not to say that's the *only*
>>>>>> reason, by a long shot, but it illustrates the overall point.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I used to self-assemble computer, but I no longer do, primarily for
>>>>> two reasons:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. At my age, I am now close to all thumbs.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. If something doesn't work, I want somebody else to troubleshoot it.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I don't buy brand-name computers. I pick the components and
>>>>> have somebody else assemble them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am still able to build them, Built 2 last fall for my son and I, My
>>>> fingers still work OK but my eyesight is really bad, makes it kind of
>>>> hard, but I persevere, that will probably be my last 2 builds,
>>>
>>>
>>> I *might* still be able to build them. But I don't want to run the
>>> risk of screwing things up.
>>>
>>> My fingers still work OK playing classical guitar, but that's
>>> different from building computers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  > But What
>>>  > can you expect at 87 years old. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> I think you're the only person here older than me.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Congratulation on the guitar playing,
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>> Something I tried to learn yet
>> could never do,
>
>
> I'm still taking lessons weekly. I'm a long way from being professional,
> but I'm a pretty advanced amateur. I can play several pretty difficult
> pieces, including my favorite, the Tàrrega "Capricho Arabe."
>
>
>> the other thing is typing, Much as I tried I just could
>> not coordinate my fingers to those 2 tasks.
>
>
> 30 or so years ago I tried to learn to type using Mavis Beacon software.
> I was doing OK, but I got tired of practicing, finally decided it wasn't
> worth the trouble for me, and gave it up.
>
> I type in a very unstandard manner, using just a few fingers. I'm pretty
> fast, but I have to look at the keyboard. Typing without looking at the
> keyboard is necessary for secretaries who have to look at what their
> boss wrote, but not for me.
>
>
>> Yet I can build anything from Astronomical telescopes
>
>
> It was about 60 years ago that I started to grind a 6"  mirror, but I
> never finished. It was a very boring process.
>
>
>> to engines
>> ,circuit boards Arc welders  any electronic gear or whatever crosses my
>> mind.
>
>
> I did build a harpsichord, though, also about 60 years ago. It was from
> a Zuckerman kit, and when finished it looked almost exactly like this one:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/164888404452?hash=item26641d61e4:g:0V8AAOSwVThgsXWF
>
>
> Later I built a treble viol and an Appalachian Dulcimer.
>
> And back in my early teenage years, I wanted to be a radio amateur, and
> built several devices, including a transmitter and a receiver.
>
> I later built my own stereo amplifiers and tuner from kits.
>
> I gave up wanting to be a radio amateur when I decided I wanted to be
> World Chess Champion and devoted all my time and effort to that. I never
> got to be anywhere near strong enough, but I became a pretty good
> amateur. I knew, played against, and sometimes drew with or beat some of
> the best players (including Bobby Fischer). 15 or 20 years ago, I taught
> chess in a couple of local schools for a few years, but I almost never
> play anymore. I think my last tournament was around 55 years ago, and
> even my last offhand game was about 15 years ago.
>
>

You too have had an interesting life The old saying goes, Variety is the
spice of life.
I wanted to be an electronics technician, took home study courses, Built
dozens of Heathkit and EICO kits including color TVs.

Ground polished and aluminized telescope mirrors and lens from 4 1/4
to 12 1/2 inches.
Ended up being a Power Engineer Third class.

Rene

Rene

On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 14:54:56 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

<...>

>That's why I do all my computing with the Celeron 300 and 440BX
>chipset. Because all it did, was be a computer. It had no
>pretenses to being an Internet Poker Machine.

I had a Celeron 300 and a 44BX mobo from Abit, probably 25 years ago. The
first thing I did was bump the Celeron to 450. I can't imagine trying to
use that hardware today.

Ken Blake graced us with on 6/26/2021 2:27 PM:
> On 6/26/2021 2:20 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> Johnny graced us with on 6/26/2021 10:04 AM:
>>> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 12:51:30 -0400
>>> Big Al <Big_Al@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/26/2021 12:45 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 11:21:45 -0400, Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I haven’t bought a Dell for personal use for over 20 years. I
>>>>>> convinced the company to not buy Dells by stacking up a few of the
>>>>>> many hard drives killed by heat in two generations of Dell
>>>>>> ‘business’ systems. After accounting saw just how many dead drives
>>>>>> we’d accumulated, Dell was off the approved purchasing lisy, thank
>>>>>> you, Jesus. Those who had to deal with Optiplex towers and
>>>>>> minitowers a decade ago will know exactly what I’m talking about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Certain members of my family have looked at the nice low price and
>>>>>> bought Dells, against my advice; only one is still operational, a
>>>>>> laptop purchased in 2018 and whose battery is at 81% of design
>>>>>> capacity, and whose hard drive was replaced by a SSD. And, yes,
>>>>>> the dead drive died due to heat. Dell kills drives by overheating
>>>>>> them, laptop, desktop, whatever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hate Dell.
>>>>> I know this is a "I hate Dell" thread, but my personal/primary
>>>>> laptop is a Dell Inspiron 15R SE 7520, bought in early 2013. I've
>>>>> had absolutely no issues with it and would gladly buy another Dell
>>>>> laptop. I've never used a Dell desktop, so I don't know about that.
>>>>>
>>>>> My other laptop is an HP dv7-6185, bought in mid-2009. On that one,
>>>>> the speakers and the WiFi module died a couple years ago. Since
>>>>> then, we use external speakers, which is fine because the laptop
>>>>> rarely moves, and a USB WiFi dongle. The WiFi dongle is an upgrade,
>>>>> since it covers both the 2.4 and the 5GHz bands, whereas the
>>>>> internal WiFi only covered 2.4GHz.
>>>> I've had a few Dell laptops and I drove one in the ground it lasted
>>>> so long, and the 2nd one died when I poured a drink into the keyboard
>>>> & fried the MB.
>>>>
>>>> The current Dell I'm on is about 18mo old and runs like a champ.
>>>> Running Linux & Windows 10.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have a Dell Optiplex 7050 16 GB of RAM and a Samsung SSD. I think
>>> it's the best computer I have ever had. I don't see how over heating
>>> could ever be a problem, and the UEFI settings are very easy to navigate
>>> compared to the HP UEFI settings. Of course I'm using Linux Mint.
>>>
>> Ditto, my XPS 8900 has been rock solid; although, I have experienced
>> problems with their laptop keyboards in the past.
>
> I have a Dell laptop in a closet somewhere, but I can't remember
> anything about its keyboard.
>
> However I hate the Dell desktop keyboards, not because of problems with
> them, but because of their design. I don't know why Dell makes
> non-standard keyboards.
>
My system came with non-illuminated keys so I never really used it
except as a temporary backup. I now use backlit keyboards. My current
one is a Logitech K800 which has a great feel to it, at least for my liking.

--
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On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 20:03:55 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>The Intel graphics don't come with driver updates
>for as long as an NVidia or AMD card might. The latter
>two are six years. Which means you want to catch cards
>being released as brand new silicon, to get the best support.
>It doesn't matter that it's a gamer card - what matters is
>you're getting driver support.

What kind of computer user needs (frequent) video card driver updates?
Gamers, I suppose, but who else? I've never needed a video driver update,
AFAICR, and I don't care about support. I still have a GT8600 installed in
a system here, although I tend to use RDP 99.9% of the time so it doesn't
get used much. It still works fine, though, and hasn't had a driver update
in a decade or so.

>My Optiplex refurb, yes, Windows Update does install an Intel
>driver when you install Windows 10. But there's no
>control panel to position Monitor 1 next to Monitor 2.

Doesn't every version of Windows since at least XP offer that functionality
out of the box? It's on the screen where you ask Windows to put a giant "1"
and "2" on the screens and if you don't like the layout, you just drag the
left one right or the right one left to switch them.

On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:17:26 -0500, Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>On 2021-06-26 7:01 p.m., Roger Blake wrote:
>> On 2021-06-26, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>> Yes. Not a must, but very desirable. Especially NVMe. I don't think I'd
>>> buy a SSD anymore.
>>
>> None of my PCs are new enough to support NVMe. I'm too cheap to buy/build a new
>> computer since my old ones do everything I need and SSD is plenty fast for my
>> purposes. (I would go NVMe though if I needed to buy something new unless it
>> was a lot more expensive.)
>>
>
>Both of my last builds have NVMe's my sons has a 256 GB and mine has 2
>256 GB
>plus each has a 256 GB SSD and a 1 TB spinning drive, most new M/Bs now
>come with 2 NVMe sockets, and the price of these tiny drives is fairly
>reasonable.

+1
My latest build has 3 NVMe slots, but you have to check the fine print. I
think one steals bandwidth from a PCIe slot, one disables a SATA port, and
the other disables something else. I'm not using that particular PCIe slot,
so I chose that option.

Ken Blake graced us with on 6/26/2021 2:55 PM:
> On 6/26/2021 2:37 PM, Joel wrote:
>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> However I hate the Dell desktop keyboards, not because of problems
>>> with them, but because of their design. I don't know why Dell makes
>>> non-standard keyboards.
>>
>> That's a good example of why I prefer to self-assemble a computer, I
>> don't want to be handheld by an OEM, with their peripherals with the
>> corporate name all over the parts. Not to say that's the *only*
>> reason, by a long shot, but it illustrates the overall point.
>
> I used to self-assemble computer, but I no longer do, primarily for two
> reasons:
>
> 1. At my age, I am now close to all thumbs.
>
> 2. If something doesn't work, I want somebody else to troubleshoot it.
>
> But I don't buy brand-name computers. I pick the components and have
> somebody else assemble them.
>
Like you, I used to buy barebones and build it myself but fat fingers
and blinky eyesight stopped me.

I split the purchase with my system, going with an on-sale Dell box and
then added a 600W power supply, a graphics card plus dual 2TB
harddrives, which I've since upgraded to 4TB. It was cheaper at the time
but since bitcoin mining took hold (now possibily letting up?)
purchasing a decent gaming card is ridiculously over-priced.

--
Sailfish
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Rene Lamontagne graced us with on 6/26/2021 3:05 PM:
> On 2021-06-26 4:55 p.m., Ken Blake wrote:
>> On 6/26/2021 2:37 PM, Joel wrote:
>>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> However I hate the Dell desktop keyboards, not because of problems
>>>> with them, but because of their design. I don't know why Dell makes
>>>> non-standard keyboards.
>>>
>>>
>>> That's a good example of why I prefer to self-assemble a computer, I
>>> don't want to be handheld by an OEM, with their peripherals with the
>>> corporate name all over the parts. Not to say that's the *only*
>>> reason, by a long shot, but it illustrates the overall point.
>>
>>
>>
>> I used to self-assemble computer, but I no longer do, primarily for
>> two reasons:
>>
>> 1. At my age, I am now close to all thumbs.
>>
>> 2. If something doesn't work, I want somebody else to troubleshoot it.
>>
>> But I don't buy brand-name computers. I pick the components and have
>> somebody else assemble them.
>>
>>
>
> I am still able to build them, Built 2 last fall for my son and I, My
> fingers still work OK but my eyesight is really bad, makes it kind of
> hard, but I persevere, that will probably be my last 2 builds,But What
> can you expect at 87 years old. :-)
>
You put this 72 yr old youngster to shame.

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

Ken Blake wrote:
> On 6/26/2021 2:37 PM, Joel wrote:
>> Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> However I hate the Dell desktop keyboards, not because of problems with
>>> them, but because of their design. I don't know why Dell makes
>>> non-standard keyboards.
>>
>>
>> That's a good example of why I prefer to self-assemble a computer, I
>> don't want to be handheld by an OEM, with their peripherals with the
>> corporate name all over the parts.  Not to say that's the *only*
>> reason, by a long shot, but it illustrates the overall point.
>
>
>
> I used to self-assemble computer, but I no longer do, primarily for two
> reasons:
>
> 1. At my age, I am now close to all thumbs.
>
> 2. If something doesn't work, I want somebody else to troubleshoot it.
>
> But I don't buy brand-name computers. I pick the components and have
> somebody else assemble them.
>
>
For desktops, I've been happy with both 'build your own, have someone build.
For the latter I've always choose a company with a long term history.
Too many mom and pop shops are skewed towards troubleshooting user created
problems than building systems properly, burning in and testing prior to
delivery and short term employee retention. My favorite builder, but
pricey, is Puget Systems(Lifetime tech support)- have had three systems
from them and not a single problem.

For laptops and tablets.
- Laptop...only two choices Lenovo or Acer
- Tablets - Surface or Yoga

--
....w¡ñ§±¤n

On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 14:27:57 -0700, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote:

>However I hate the Dell desktop keyboards, not because of problems with
>them, but because of their design. I don't know why Dell makes
>non-standard keyboards.

Yes, but, is there anything easier to change than a keyboard? :-)