On 2024-04-25 19:57, Hank Rogers wrote:
> Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-04-25 19:46, Hank Rogers wrote:

>>> You just proved my point.
>>
>> ... er, no.  Just gave you incentive for another stream of
>> conscienceless ....
>>
>
> Patriotism is when love of Apple comes first; And hate for Android comes
> second.

I never wrote that. Hank Rogers, who appears to have serious mental
issues, wrote that and falsely attributed it to me.

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

On 2024-04-26 18:45, Oscar Mayer wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 22:11:04 -0000 (UTC), paul@paulglover.net.invalid
> wrote:
>
>>> The apple walled garden works fairly well for us. We are not trying
>>> to destroy apple. We do not care about the minutia of apple's
>>> imarket, istock prices, isales statistics ... nor any other ibullshit.
>>
>> Exactly. Nothing I choose to do with a tablet or phone is limited by
>> being within a walled garden. For those, I just want them to work
>> reasonably well when they need to.
>
> The pre-Galilean Pope decreed that the sun revolves around the earth.
>
> There is nothing wrong with you thinking that the sun revolves around the
> earth as long as it works for you, just as you seeming to be saying that
> the infamous walled garden doesn't hinder your efforts with a tablet or
> phone isn't wrong - as long as it works for you.
> But the fact you said it means you don't actually do anything with that
> tablet or phone that Apple hasn't scripted for you because the walled
> garden very much is debilitating if you did.

Except there isn't a walled garden. It's more of a gated community.
Can do all we want - and more. Nothing debilitating.

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

On 4/27/2024 9:51 AM, Alan Browne wrote:

>> Patriotism is when love of Apple comes first; And hate for Android comes
>> second.�
>
> I never wrote that. Hank Rogers, who appears to have serious mental
> issues, wrote that and falsely attributed it to me.

Hank was playing on what you wrote but even so, Hank is correct that you
embody the sense of what he wrote given your fanaticism to the Apple Koran.

On 4/27/2024 9:49 AM, Alan Browne wrote:

>> I think I've got it now. Thanks.
>
> You don't think. You certainly don't "got it".

I think Hank did get it. Hank pegged you perfectly.

You are a fanatic defending your fundamentalist Apple Koran by slitting the
throats of all unbelievers - even as you have no understanding nor any
inkling of knowledge of your Apple Koran (such as your absurd claim that
the infamous Apple walled garden doesn't exist).

On 4/27/2024 9:56 AM, Alan Browne wrote:

> Except there isn't a walled garden. It's more of a gated community.
> Can do all we want - and more. Nothing debilitating.

I wonder if you realize you fomenting the absurd claim there is no walled
garden is exactly like those Trumpists who claim he's being persecuted.

When you make such infantile claims, it makes you look rather stupid.

The reason you make such obviously ridiculous claims is no different than
what the religious fundamentalists do when they defend their beloved Koran.

On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 11:07:16 +1200, Your Name wrote:

> Despite Apple's attempts to claim otherwise, the iPad is not and cannot
> be a computer replacement for many reasons. The main one being that fat
> fingers are a hopelessly inaccurate input device. The Pencil or similar
> stylus (that Steve Jobs abhored when the iPad first launched) make is a
> bit better, but your hands are still in the way of the display so it is
> still nowhere near as good as a mouse, trackpad, or separate graphics
> tablet.

All what you said is true, but some of what you said can be overcome by
mirroring the iPad over onto the Windows computer using a tool such as
https://www.vysor.io/download/

When casting that iPad to the PC's monitor, you have full use of the
keyboard, mouse and clipboard of the PC (and any attached pencils).

On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 12:43:04 -0000 (UTC), paul@paulglover.net.invalid
wrote:

>> There is nothing wrong with you thinking that the sun revolves around the
>> earth as long as it works for you, just as you seeming to be saying that
>> the infamous walled garden doesn't hinder your efforts with a tablet or
>> phone isn't wrong - as long as it works for you.
>
> And yet, you're choosing an analogy in which one of the options is
> very demonstrably wrong. The earth orbits the sun. Period. Anyone
> who says otherwise is obviously crazy. Ergo, anyone who disagrees with
> you must be crazy. Right? ;-)

There are those on this very newsgroup who claim there is no walled garden,
which is akin to claiming that the sun revolves around the earth, is it
not?

> Whereas in reality, what one person needs their tablet to do is very
> different to another. Neither is actually wrong, unless they stubbornly
> refuse to accept that a particular device has limits which make it
> unsuitable for *their* needs.

As I said, if you don't do much with your iOS device, then if it works fine
for you - then all the power to you for the happiness that it provides you.

But nobody sensible would equate the debilitatingly limited iOS platform to
that of a far more open platform such as Android when it comes to getting
useful things done in the real world (which includes more than only Apple).

> Where they get very sideways indeed is when they INSIST that everyone
> else should be upset because a device can't do something that only they
> care about. Your experience is not theirs, and vice-versa. Most people
> have quite limited use cases for a tablet device, and so never come
> close to hitting the limits. They just don't care about the things you
> care about.

The number of useful things iOS can't do compared to all other platforms
numbers in the thousands, such that even the most common of the simplest of
basic things people do on all other platforms is impossible to do on iOS.

>> But the fact you said it means you don't actually do anything with that
>> tablet or phone that Apple hasn't scripted for you because the walled
>> garden very much is debilitating if you did.
>
> To be fair, you do have a point here. If I stubbornly insisted on trying
> to use my iPad for things it isn't able or lacks the software tools to
> do, it would be debilitating.

What if you simply wanted to use the web on iOS with the privacy of the Tor
Browser? You can't. Even the Guardian web site says you can't get that kind
of privacy on iOS. Why not? WebKit.

> But I do not, because it's really about using the right tool for the
> job and I have plenty of other tools that are suitable.

While I don't disagree the right tool for the job is what you use, what do
you do for the thousands of things you want to do that iOS can't do?

For example, what if you had wanted to, oh, say, use a YouTube app (not a
browser web page, but an app) for free without any advertisements and with
the concurrent ability to strip & download & anonymously subscribe, etc.?

It's trivial on Android. Impossible on iOS.

> The thing you ignored here is that I was actually surprised at what I
> *could* do with an iPad. As for the things I could not? Those mostly
> came down to lack of storage space and lack of specific software tools,
> not any apparent Apple imposed limits.

I didn't ignore that you feel everything you want to do you can do on the
iPad, but what if you wanted to do something as simple as hook it to a
random PC (say at a friend's house) and copy files back and forth over USB.

You can't. Android can. That's all I'm saying.

In addition to the lack of thousands of apps which makes iOS debilitating,
is the requirement of the unique AppleID which no other platform has.

Only iOS has that debilitating requirement hindering open file transfers.

> As far as I can tell, Apple wasn't stopping anyone from writing a
> digital asset management tool for the iPad.

Why do you think that Apple expressly doesn't allow a mock location app to
be installed on the iPad and yet every other platform easily allows you to?

> The only limit I did run into that was related directly to Apple policy
> was emulating old computers (no emulation allowed). Didn't they just
> remove that limit?

If that's the only limit you've run into, then all you're really saying is
you use the iPad as a mere slinky, or a Frisbee, or whatever toy analogy
you care to come up with. As a toy, the iPad is fun to play with. I agree.

But as a mobile device, the debilitating limitations of the iPad are so
onerous as to mark the device as merely a plaything for people who play
games.

For example, how do you graphically check all the Wi-Fi signals in your
home when you're setting up or debugging Wi-Fi? You can't.

Every other platform easily does that.
Just not iOS.

>> It's like someone who thinks the earth revolves around the moon isn't
>> actually ever going to get a spaceship to the moon thinking that way.
>
> Not entirely sure what your point is here.

If someone says the earth revolves around the moon, they're ignorant.
Same as anyone who claims the iPad can do what every other platform does.

There are thousands of things that the iPad can't do because Apple limits
what iOS can do. It's called the walled garden.

For example, how do you copy any file from your iPad onto someone else's
iPad with a different AppleID over USB like every other platform does?

You can't.

> I suppose the real world version of that analogy is that, lacking an
> iPad native digital asset management system written by someone else, I
> should have just gone ahead and written my own so I could have used the
> iPad for everything? Which I could not have done using just an iPad, so
> I'd have been stuck, because this is all taking place in some fever
> dream where I have nothing but an iPad and iPhone available?

The Apple mobile devices running iOS are so debilitating you can't even
choose your own default messaging app for sms/mms and yet Android has no
problem choosing any of hundreds of useful messaging apps as the default.

> No thanks. Someone else can take care of that sort of moonshot.

What you're saying, rather clearly, is that you use the iPad as a slinky.
And that's fine. For you.

In fact, you said only one thing you couldn't do, which means you actually
use the iPad mostly as a Frisbee to play games. And for that, it works
fine.

But try to set up a system-wide no-root firewall on the damn thing, which
is something every other operating system easily does, and you'll fail.

The iPad is nothing more than a toy that can only do what Apple wants you
to do and nothing else.

Meanwhile, every other operating system works for you.

>> Because the number of rather useful things that everyone else can do but
>> which the walled garden prevents you from doing is absolutely astounding.
>
> I'm genuinely curious what it is that you are trying to do which you
> cannot because of the "walled garden". Or what you're presuming that
> I've been limited from being able to do?

Try this.
I plug any number of random Android phones (by way of example) into my PC.
I copy any file I want to from the PC to those phones.
I copy any file I want to the PC from those phones.

No setup. No iTunes debilitating garbage. Nothing but a USB cord.
It doesn't matter whom the phone is "registered" to.
it doesn't matter what file I'm copying.
It doesn't matter where that file is located either.

It just works.

Can you do that with the iOS device you have?
The answer is no.

On the Apple mobile devices, you're severely restricted to doing only what
the Apple corporate hierarchy deems is what THEY want you to be able to do.

> The list of things I've found which I could not adequately do with just
> an iPad is not "absolutely astounding" at all:

Then you've done nothing.

Have you ever tried, for example, to put an app shortcut into two logical
locations? Or to change the name of similarly sounding installed default
app shortcuts? Or to arrange the folders and icons on your homescreen any
way you like? Or to get rid of the dock if you've emptied it out.

All that is trivial on Android.
Impossible on iOS.

Even the most basic of things, probably the EASIEST tasks on the planet for
an operating system to do, is impossible to do with iOS such as spitting
out all your installed apps to an editable file so you can keep a log off
the iPad and so you can send it to others or use it to populate another
iPad (perhaps that other iPad isn't the same Apple ID).

Oh wait... I forgot about that AppleID. On EVERY other operating system you
can take the installer of a free app, oh, say, an older version of app "X"
that you liked, and just copy that installer to another device & run it.

On Apr 27, 2024 at 6:23:34 AM EDT, "Oscar Mayer" <nobody@oscarmayer.com>
wrote:

> What if you want to plug any phone you want into any Windows or Linux PC
> you want where you can copy files back and forth to anywhere you want?

iOS/iPadOS can do that wirelessly. I do it occasionally. Why do you need to
"plug it in"?

> Every other operating system can do that except iOS.

Wrong again.

In misc.phone.mobile.iphone Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
> On Apr 27, 2024 at 6:23:34???AM EDT, "Oscar Mayer" <nobody@oscarmayer.com>
> wrote:

> > What if you want to plug any phone you want into any Windows or Linux PC
> > you want where you can copy files back and forth to anywhere you want?

> iOS/iPadOS can do that wirelessly. I do it occasionally. Why do you need to
> "plug it in"?

Not all computers have wifi. My old custom built desktop PCs don't have wifi.
--
"Do not swerve to the right or the left; keep your foot from evil." --Proverbs 4:27
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

On Apr 27, 2024 at 1:56:52 PM EDT, "Ant" <Ant> wrote:

> In misc.phone.mobile.iphone Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>> On Apr 27, 2024 at 6:23:34???AM EDT, "Oscar Mayer" <nobody@oscarmayer.com>
>> wrote:
>
>>> What if you want to plug any phone you want into any Windows or Linux PC
>>> you want where you can copy files back and forth to anywhere you want?
>
>> iOS/iPadOS can do that wirelessly. I do it occasionally. Why do you need to
>> "plug it in"?
>
> Not all computers have wifi. My old custom built desktop PCs don't have wifi.

Not all computers need wifi. If its connected to the wifi network that iOS is
on, it will work. I have done that too. All you need is the IP address of the
computer in question.

In fact I have a second wifi router configured in bridge mode for the old
computers without wifi. It wirelessly connects to the main wifi router, so
anything plugged into the second router is on the same network. Because the
main wifi router is downstairs and these computers are upstairs. Running
cables to upstairs is impractical.

On 2024-04-27 10:26:22 +0000, Enrico Papaloma said:
> On 4/27/2024 8:53 AM, Chris wrote:
>>> You know this because you have experienced it.
>>> Everyone has.
>>
>> Nope never.
>
> Now you're just being ridiculous.
>
> To deny that there are slowdowns after updating/upgrading iOS is to deny
> what many people have & even Apple has documented to often be the case.

"many people" ... not all people.

I've never noticed any slow down after an update on neither our iPad
nor my Mac.

Enrico Papaloma wrote:
> On 4/27/2024 8:53 AM, Chris wrote:
>>> You know this because you have experienced it.
>>> Everyone has.
>>
>> Nope never.
>
> Now you're just being ridiculous.
>
> To deny that there are slowdowns after updating/upgrading iOS is to deny
> what many people have & even Apple has documented to often be the case.
>

It's very common, but usually only lasts a day or two, then your device
returns to it's speedy self.

Bill Powell wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 11:07:16 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>
>> Despite Apple's attempts to claim otherwise, the iPad is not and cannot
>> be a computer replacement for many reasons. The main one being that fat
>> fingers are a hopelessly inaccurate input device. The Pencil or similar
>> stylus (that Steve Jobs abhored when the iPad first launched) make is a
>> bit better, but your hands are still in the way of the display so it is
>> still nowhere near as good as a mouse, trackpad, or separate graphics
>> tablet.
>
> All what you said is true, but some of what you said can be overcome by
> mirroring the iPad over onto the Windows computer using a tool such as
> https://www.vysor.io/download/
>
> When casting that iPad to the PC's monitor, you have full use of the
> keyboard, mouse and clipboard of the PC (and any attached pencils).

If your PC really needs that ipad, it must be a pretty lame computer. I
would agree that an ipad might help, if your PC is from 1991, sporting an
intel 386 with a single 5-1/4" floppy.

On 2024-04-27, Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
> On Apr 27, 2024 at 6:23:34 AM EDT, "Oscar Mayer" <nobody@oscarmayer.com>
> wrote:
>
>> What if you want to plug any phone you want into any Windows or Linux
>> PC you want where you can copy files back and forth to anywhere you
>> want?
>
> iOS/iPadOS can do that wirelessly. I do it occasionally. Why do you
> need to "plug it in"?

Apple devices have been able to share files wirelessly and over USB
forever:

<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/airdisk-pro/id505904421>

<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/cargo-file-transfer-for-ios/id1612778232>

>> Every other operating system can do that except iOS.
>
> Wrong again.

The difference between normal people and these loser trolls is they
actually believe if they keep repeating the same, old, tired lies
thinking the rest of us will just believe them without question like
they do. People who can think for themselves and aren't biased zealots
don't fit into their trolling equation.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2024-04-27, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> In misc.phone.mobile.iphone Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>> On Apr 27, 2024 at 6:23:34???AM EDT, "Oscar Mayer" <nobody@oscarmayer.com>
>> wrote:
>
>>> What if you want to plug any phone you want into any Windows or
>>> Linux PC you want where you can copy files back and forth to
>>> anywhere you want?
>
>> iOS/iPadOS can do that wirelessly. I do it occasionally. Why do you
>> need to "plug it in"?
>
> Not all computers have wifi. My old custom built desktop PCs don't
> have wifi.

So use an app that does it through USB instead. Big deal.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2024-04-27, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>> In misc.phone.mobile.iphone Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>>> On Apr 27, 2024 at 6:23:34???AM EDT, "Oscar Mayer" <nobody@oscarmayer.com>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> What if you want to plug any phone you want into any Windows or
>>>> Linux PC you want where you can copy files back and forth to
>>>> anywhere you want?
>>
>>> iOS/iPadOS can do that wirelessly. I do it occasionally. Why do you
>>> need to "plug it in"?
>>
>> Not all computers have wifi. My old custom built desktop PCs don't
>> have wifi.
>
> So use an app that does it through USB instead. Big deal.
>

Better yet, just buy a new Mac. It will work perfectly with all your apple
devices, unless they are a few years old and unsupported.

Why screw around with USB?

On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 17:07:49 +0000, Tyrone wrote:

>> What if you want to plug any phone you want into any Windows or Linux PC
>> you want where you can copy files back and forth to anywhere you want?
>
> iOS/iPadOS can do that wirelessly. I do it occasionally. Why do you need to
> "plug it in"?

Bullshit.

Any iOS device means any AppleID (or none at all).
Any user file. Any user location. Read and write.
Native Devices. USB or Wi-Fi (or BT/UWB).

Every interoperability aspect of iOS is debilitating when you move away
from the Apple walled garden because that only works within the walled
garden (and even then, that usually only works within a single AppleID).

>> Every other operating system can do that except iOS.
>
> Wrong again.

Bullshit.

It's only Apple's operating systems that don't work in the real world
(which is the world that includes more than just the walled garden).

On 28 Apr 2024 00:35:51 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

>> iOS/iPadOS can do that wirelessly. I do it occasionally. Why do you
>> need to "plug it in"?
>
> Apple devices have been able to share files wirelessly and over USB
> forever:

Bullshit.
Any iOS device means any AppleID (or none at all).

Any user file. Any user location. Read and write. USB or WiFi.
Native devices. No extra tools needed.

For example, Apple doesn't support the entire Linux operating system so
Apple doesn't work in the real world. Neither does Apple work with Windows.

And your "sharing" doesn't even work in the walled garden because of the
AppleID restriction, and even if it did, it's still not all files and all
locations, read and write.

Apple devices do not work in the real world (outside the walled garden).

On 2024-04-28 10:40, Oscar Mayer wrote:

> (which is the world that includes more than just the walled garden).

When you write "walled garden" 1,000,000 times you get a fluffy bear.

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 12:48:06 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

>> (which is the world that includes more than just the walled garden).
>
> When you write "walled garden" 1,000,000 times you get a fluffy bear.

If someone claims there is no walled garden, that simply means they only
use the Apple device as a toy. They don't actually do anything with it.

They never use their Apple devices outside of their tiny little world.

Even the walled garden fails when you try to involve other AppleIDs.

Oscar Mayer <nobody@oscarmayer.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 08:58:32 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>
>>> But the fact you said it means you don't actually do anything with that
>>> tablet or phone that Apple hasn't scripted for you because the walled
>>> garden very much is debilitating if you did.
>>
>> "Debilitating" rofl
>
> Again, if you only use the iPhone for basic things like playing games, then
> you won't notice how debilitating the walled garden truly is when you want
> to do things that everyone else does without even thinking about doing it.

Such as? Millions of people use iphones for work and not just play games.
None of them feel "debilitated".

>>> It's like someone who thinks the earth revolves around the moon isn't
>>> actually ever going to get a spaceship to the moon thinking that way.
>>
>> How many people fly to the moon...?
>
> The number of things that every operating system except iOS does that iOS
> doesn't do is so large that it's debilitating to use an iPhone after you've
> used Android with any other operating system, including Linux & Windows.

Do you think iphone owners have never used other operating systems? Most,
if not all, will be familiar with windows, macOS or linux and yet they
still keep buying expensive, "debilitated" phones.

>>> Because the number of rather useful things that everyone else can do but
>>> which the walled garden prevents you from doing is absolutely astounding.
>>
>> "Everyone else" being tech nerds who like to tinker. Everyone else truly
>> just want something that works for Snapchat, tiktok and instagram.
>
> What if you want to plug any phone you want into any Windows or Linux PC
> you want where you can copy files back and forth to anywhere you want?

Only a tiny number of people want to do that.

Oscar Mayer <nobody@oscarmayer.com> wrote:
>
> It's only Apple's operating systems that don't work in the real world
> (which is the world that includes more than just the walled garden).

I wonder what unreal world the people who buy Apple devices live in? I mean
there are billions of them.

They all seem living pretty normal lives. In fact I wonder if it's them who
live in the real world and not you. Just a thought.

On Apr 28, 2024 at 5:16:13 PM EDT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What if you want to plug any phone you want into any Windows or Linux PC
>> you want where you can copy files back and forth to anywhere you want?
>
> Only a tiny number of people want to do that.

True. And it can be done wirelessly anyway. There is absolutely no need to
plug it in via USB.

You use the "Connect To Server" option in the Files app. Enter the IP address
of your Windows PC, then you select the share (drive, folder, whatever) to
connect to. Move whatever files you want, in both directions.

That the clueless trolls don't know how to do it, does not mean it can't be
done.

Dunno about Linux. It may work, but I have never tried it because I have no
need for Linux here. But Apple does not need to support Linux anyway, since so
few people use it. Linux is not "the real world". Certainly the number of
iPhone/iPad owners who also use Linux is near zero.

And of course, this will work with any Windows PC on the network, regardless
of how it is connected to the network.

Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Bill Powell wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 11:07:16 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>>
>>> Despite Apple's attempts to claim otherwise, the iPad is not and cannot
>>> be a computer replacement for many reasons. The main one being that fat
>>> fingers are a hopelessly inaccurate input device. The Pencil or similar
>>> stylus (that Steve Jobs abhored when the iPad first launched) make is a
>>> bit better, but your hands are still in the way of the display so it is
>>> still nowhere near as good as a mouse, trackpad, or separate graphics
>>> tablet.
>>
>> All what you said is true, but some of what you said can be overcome by
>> mirroring the iPad over onto the Windows computer using a tool such as
>> https://www.vysor.io/download/
>>
>> When casting that iPad to the PC's monitor, you have full use of the
>> keyboard, mouse and clipboard of the PC (and any attached pencils).
>
> If your PC really needs that ipad, it must be a pretty lame computer. I
> would agree that an ipad might help, if your PC is from 1991, sporting an
> intel 386 with a single 5-1/4" floppy.

An ipad is just as fast as a PC for pretty much any desktop task. Apple
Silicon blows intel out of the water for efficiency and anything below 13th
gen intel in raw power.

Enrico Papaloma <enrico@papaloma.net> wrote:
> On 4/27/2024 8:53 AM, Chris wrote:
>>> You know this because you have experienced it.
>>> Everyone has.
>>
>> Nope never.
>
> Now you're just being ridiculous.
>
> To deny that there are slowdowns after updating/upgrading iOS is to deny
> what many people have & even Apple has documented to often be the case.

I don't deny people claim they notice it. I'm just not one of them.