36J.955 wrote:

>   I used the term "magic" for a reason - it means
>   that you get more or less what sophisticated stuff
>   you want, but HOW it is created is a total mystery.

And probably lots of subtle edge cases where it doesn't *quite* give the
desired results ...

On 13/07/2023 07:18, 36J.955 wrote:
> ... because you're not
>   NEEDED by the top elite anymore. The one percent
>   can live wonderfully without the sweaty unwashed
>   masses by and large.

And that is the story of the 21st Century. Who needs a social contract
with people who do not form a meaningful part of your society?

--
"An intellectual is a person knowledgeable in one field who speaks out
only in others...”

Tom Wolfe

On 13/07/2023 06:33, 36J.955 wrote:
> On 7/12/23 4:34 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 12/07/2023 20:49, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 12.07.23 um 09:11 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>>>> On 12/07/2023 01:11, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-07-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/07/2023 18:02, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
>>>>>>> control can solve all problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to themselves
>>>>>> and using
>>>>>> methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills will
>>>>>> never
>>>>>> arrive and wont need solving
>>>>>
>>>>> That's great for the oligarchs, and the rest of us don't count,
>>>>> so I guess you're right.
>>>>>
>>>> There is a difference between conservatism and fascism
>>>
>>> Not in the USA.
>>>
>> Yes in the USA
>
>
>   Indeed !
>
>   But the WokieComs see ANYTHING even remotely outside
>   their realm as 101% "fascist".
>
>   I doubt any have even MET a "fascist". I'm old enough
>   to have encountered some left over from WW2.

The only difference between a fascist and a communist is ...I cant
actually think of a difference!

Putin, Hitler, Mugabe, Franco, Mussolini?

"An intellectual is a person knowledgeable in one field who speaks out
only in others...”

Tom Wolfe

On 7/13/23 2:36 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> 36J.955 wrote:
>
>>    I used the term "magic" for a reason - it means
>>    that you get more or less what sophisticated stuff
>>    you want, but HOW it is created is a total mystery.
>
> And probably lots of subtle edge cases where it doesn't *quite* give the
> desired results ...

There was a news story today ... seems all the biggies
have pledged to make their AI's "Woke/Marxist" :-)

So no, you WON'T get exactly what you need to know, it
will be pre-filtered/tweaked to suit the political/biz
ideologies of the moment ... to lead you to the "correct"
decisions.

But prove that ? It'll be essentially impossible. The
tweaks go too deep, too wide, are too subtle. And the
AI code - won't look like anything humans would write.

On 7/13/23 2:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 13/07/2023 07:18, 36J.955 wrote:
>> ... because you're not
>>    NEEDED by the top elite anymore. The one percent
>>    can live wonderfully without the sweaty unwashed
>>    masses by and large.
>
> And that is the story of the 21st Century. Who needs a
> social contract with people who do not form a meaningful
> part of your society ?

They don't need it. We The People are going to
rapidly become "overhead", "dead weight". The
one percent won't NEED any of them (ok, a few
as token servants/slaves so they can feel more
superior).

Before I've mentioned that I've seen no plans for
what to do with all the people displaced by AI.
Now I'm beginning to think that IS the plan ...
let 'em rot. No money, no power, never quite
enough food and stuff, set them at each others
throats. Problem takes care of itself. The
one percenters will just happen to be out of
reach during all this, surrounded by their little
private armies. New Zealand seems to be the most
popular spot for survival mansions .......

("We are working on solutions as fast as we can ...")

Note that the "AI" will first displace many
'professional' positions - 'desk jobs' by and
large. However there ARE those working on very
adaptable BODIES the AI's can ultimately use
(check the Boston Robotics "Atlas"). Then all
the 'trades' and such are out too. No more
factory workers. No more plumbers/electricians/
roofers/garbage-collectors/farm-workers. Shiny
bots will be doing all that - and won't be
union members. Won't be as MUCH to do however
with 90% of the pop starving to death ...

Now all this seems a rather over-the-top bit of
doom-saying ... but, look back, look at Human Nature,
and tell me it can't happen, that the Elite won't
WANT it to happen. The collective We are THEIR
"Jewish Problem".

On 7/13/23 2:54 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 13/07/2023 06:33, 36J.955 wrote:
>> On 7/12/23 4:34 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 12/07/2023 20:49, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> Am 12.07.23 um 09:11 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>>>>> On 12/07/2023 01:11, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>> On 2023-07-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/07/2023 18:02, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
>>>>>>>> control can solve all problems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to themselves
>>>>>>> and using
>>>>>>> methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills
>>>>>>> will never
>>>>>>> arrive and wont need solving
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's great for the oligarchs, and the rest of us don't count,
>>>>>> so I guess you're right.
>>>>>>
>>>>> There is a difference between conservatism and fascism
>>>>
>>>> Not in the USA.
>>>>
>>> Yes in the USA
>>
>>
>>    Indeed !
>>
>>    But the WokieComs see ANYTHING even remotely outside
>>    their realm as 101% "fascist".
>>
>>    I doubt any have even MET a "fascist". I'm old enough
>>    to have encountered some left over from WW2.
>
> The only difference between a fascist and a communist is ...I cant
> actually think of a difference!
>
> Putin, Hitler, Mugabe, Franco, Mussolini?
>
> "An intellectual is a person knowledgeable in one field who speaks out
> only in others...”
>
> Tom Wolfe
>

"Fascists" hold the gun to the RIGHT side of your head
while the Communists ... :-)

Fascists DO tend to have snazzier uniforms though.

36J.955 <36J955@qfxw6.net> wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>>>> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
>>>>>>> control can solve all problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?????? Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to themselves
>>>>>> and using
>>>>>> methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills will
>>>>>> never
>>>>>> arrive and wont need solving
>>>>>
>>>>> That's great for the oligarchs, and the rest of us don't count,
>>>>> so I guess you're right.
>>>>>
>>>> There is a difference between conservatism and fascism
>>>
>>> Not in the USA.
>>>
>> Yes in the USA
>
> Indeed !
>
> But the WokieComs see ANYTHING even remotely outside
> their realm as 101% "fascist".
>
> I doubt any have even MET a "fascist". I'm old enough
> to have encountered some left over from WW2.

You guys ever heard of...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law ???
--
John Forkosh ( mailto: j@f.com where j=john and f=forkosh )

On 7/13/23 20:25, John Forkosh wrote:
> 36J.955 <36J955@qfxw6.net> wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>>>>> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
>>>>>>>> control can solve all problems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ?????? Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to themselves
>>>>>>> and using
>>>>>>> methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills will
>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>> arrive and wont need solving
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's great for the oligarchs, and the rest of us don't count,
>>>>>> so I guess you're right.
>>>>>>
>>>>> There is a difference between conservatism and fascism
>>>>
>>>> Not in the USA.
>>>>
>>> Yes in the USA
>>
>> Indeed !
>>
>> But the WokieComs see ANYTHING even remotely outside
>> their realm as 101% "fascist".
>>
>> I doubt any have even MET a "fascist". I'm old enough
>> to have encountered some left over from WW2.
>
> You guys ever heard of...
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law ???

WW II Fascists ruined several countries.

Modern Fascists in America are the direct descendants of the old South
un-reconciled Confederates who wish to destroy the Federal Govenment of
the USA at the expense of multiple minority groups, including black and
brown people. They adhere to #45 whom they regard in a cultish manner.

The present Florida Fascists are attempting to keep minorities
from voting. Ron (da Fuhrer)DeSantis is destroying Florida a bit at a
time, starting with Teachers and School Libraries, denying the health
care and humanity of women, transgender people along with the rest of
the LBGTQ+ crowd, black and brown people.

American Fascism, a proud tradition since 1619 when they decided
to make black men and women property. Hitler copied our Jim Crow laws
to oppress the Jewish-Germans, the Rom, Gay men and others. American
Fascist disregard the facts uncovered by science and Hitler did his best
to destroy science that did not support his objectives.

WW II was not the end of Fascism that it should have been. We have
Fascist police all over the place and every time they mention the
"nefarious" activities of George Soros they are repeating the usual
anti-Semitic tropes.

bliss

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

On 14/07/2023 17:39, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> On 7/13/23 20:25, John Forkosh wrote:
>> 36J.955 <36J955@qfxw6.net> wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>>>>>> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
>>>>>>>>> control can solve all problems.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ?????? Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to themselves
>>>>>>>> and using
>>>>>>>> methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills will
>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>> arrive and wont need solving
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's great for the oligarchs, and the rest of us don't count,
>>>>>>> so I guess you're right.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a difference between conservatism and fascism
>>>>>
>>>>> Not in the USA.
>>>>>
>>>> Yes in the USA
>>>
>>> Indeed !
>>>
>>> But the WokieComs see ANYTHING even remotely outside
>>> their realm as 101% "fascist".
>>>
>>> I doubt any have even MET a "fascist". I'm old enough
>>> to have encountered some left over from WW2.
>>
>> You guys ever heard of...
>>       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law  ???
>
>     WW II Fascists ruined several countries.
>
>   Modern Fascists in America are the direct descendants of the old South
> un-reconciled Confederates who wish to destroy the Federal Govenment of
> the USA at the expense of multiple minority groups, including black and
> brown people.  They adhere to #45 whom they regard in a cultish manner.
>
>     The present Florida Fascists are attempting to keep minorities
> from voting.  Ron (da Fuhrer)DeSantis is destroying Florida a bit at a
> time, starting with Teachers and School Libraries, denying the health
> care and humanity of women, transgender people along with the rest of
> the LBGTQ+ crowd, black and brown people.
>
>     American Fascism, a proud tradition since 1619 when they decided
> to make black men and women property.  Hitler copied our Jim Crow laws
> to oppress the Jewish-Germans, the Rom, Gay men and others.  American
> Fascist disregard the facts uncovered by science and Hitler did his best
> to destroy science that did not support his objectives.
>
>     WW II was not the end of Fascism that it should have been. We have
> Fascist police all over the place and every time they mention the
> "nefarious" activities of George Soros they are repeating the usual
> anti-Semitic tropes.
>
>     bliss
>
Fascism, because it competed with communism for the same space - strong
centralised anti-democratic rule - has been wrongly confused with
reactionary politics. In fact fascism and communism are both in essence
far right policies, in that they both reserve power to a ruling elite
who are not subject to challenge.

Putin in his harking back to the communist Soviet Union behaves
precisely as Hitler once did. And the current wave of Wokeism and the
cancel culture in the West is eerily reminiscent of Hitlers brownshirts
in the 1930s Germany.

There are very few political parties in the West today offering
libertarian conservatism.

The choice in most countries is simply which set of two cheeks of the
same fascist arse you want to dictate to you how you must live.

--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On 14.07.23 18:39, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> On 7/13/23 20:25, John Forkosh wrote:
>> 36J.955 <36J955@qfxw6.net> wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>>>>>> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
>>>>>>>>> control can solve all problems.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ?????? Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to themselves
>>>>>>>> and using
>>>>>>>> methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills will
>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>> arrive and wont need solving
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's great for the oligarchs, and the rest of us don't count,
>>>>>>> so I guess you're right.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a difference between conservatism and fascism
>>>>>
>>>>> Not in the USA.
>>>>>
>>>> Yes in the USA
>>>
>>> Indeed !
>>>
>>> But the WokieComs see ANYTHING even remotely outside
>>> their realm as 101% "fascist".
>>>
>>> I doubt any have even MET a "fascist". I'm old enough
>>> to have encountered some left over from WW2.
>>
>> You guys ever heard of...
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law ???
>
> WW II Fascists ruined several countries.
>
> Modern Fascists in America are the direct descendants of the old South
> un-reconciled Confederates who wish to destroy the Federal Govenment of
> the USA at the expense of multiple minority groups, including black and
> brown people. They adhere to #45 whom they regard in a cultish manner.
>
> The present Florida Fascists are attempting to keep minorities
> from voting. Ron (da Fuhrer)DeSantis is destroying Florida a bit at a
> time, starting with Teachers and School Libraries, denying the health
> care and humanity of women, transgender people along with the rest of
> the LBGTQ+ crowd, black and brown people.
>
> American Fascism, a proud tradition since 1619 when they decided
> to make black men and women property. Hitler copied our Jim Crow laws
> to oppress the Jewish-Germans, the Rom, Gay men and others. American
> Fascist disregard the facts uncovered by science and Hitler did his best
> to destroy science that did not support his objectives.
>
> WW II was not the end of Fascism that it should have been. We have
> Fascist police all over the place and every time they mention the
> "nefarious" activities of George Soros they are repeating the usual
> anti-Semitic tropes.
>
> bliss

Schwätzer.

--
Sent with Betterbird from a Silicon-Mac. Simply better.
www.betterbird.eu

On 7/14/23 1:36 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 14/07/2023 17:39, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>> On 7/13/23 20:25, John Forkosh wrote:
>>> 36J.955 <36J955@qfxw6.net> wrote:
>>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>> schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>>>>>>> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
>>>>>>>>>> control can solve all problems.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ?????? Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to
>>>>>>>>> themselves
>>>>>>>>> and using
>>>>>>>>> methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills will
>>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>> arrive and wont need solving
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's great for the oligarchs, and the rest of us don't count,
>>>>>>>> so I guess you're right.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is a difference between conservatism and fascism
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not in the USA.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yes in the USA
>>>>
>>>> Indeed !
>>>>
>>>> But the WokieComs see ANYTHING even remotely outside
>>>> their realm as 101% "fascist".
>>>>
>>>> I doubt any have even MET a "fascist". I'm old enough
>>>> to have encountered some left over from WW2.
>>>
>>> You guys ever heard of...
>>>       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law  ???
>>
>>      WW II Fascists ruined several countries.
>>
>>    Modern Fascists in America are the direct descendants of the old South
>> un-reconciled Confederates who wish to destroy the Federal Govenment
>> of the USA at the expense of multiple minority groups, including black
>> and
>> brown people.  They adhere to #45 whom they regard in a cultish manner.
>>
>>      The present Florida Fascists are attempting to keep minorities
>> from voting.  Ron (da Fuhrer)DeSantis is destroying Florida a bit at a
>> time, starting with Teachers and School Libraries, denying the health
>> care and humanity of women, transgender people along with the rest of
>> the LBGTQ+ crowd, black and brown people.
>>
>>      American Fascism, a proud tradition since 1619 when they decided
>> to make black men and women property.  Hitler copied our Jim Crow laws
>> to oppress the Jewish-Germans, the Rom, Gay men and others.  American
>> Fascist disregard the facts uncovered by science and Hitler did his best
>> to destroy science that did not support his objectives.
>>
>>      WW II was not the end of Fascism that it should have been. We
>> have Fascist police all over the place and every time they mention the
>> "nefarious" activities of George Soros they are repeating the usual
>> anti-Semitic tropes.
>>
>>      bliss
>>
> Fascism, because it competed with communism for the same space -  strong
> centralised anti-democratic rule - has been wrongly confused with
> reactionary politics. In fact fascism and communism are both in essence
> far right policies, in that they both reserve power to a ruling elite
> who are not subject to challenge.
>
> Putin in his harking back to the communist Soviet Union behaves
> precisely as Hitler once did. And the current wave of Wokeism and the
> cancel culture in the West is eerily reminiscent of Hitlers brownshirts
> in the 1930s Germany.
>
> There are very few political parties in the West today offering
> libertarian conservatism.

NONE really. I oft refer to "Large-'L'" and "Small-"L"
libertarianism. Almost NO "small-L" anymore ... the
overall position of The Founders, where the BOR came
from.

And no, the Libertarian Party is NOT "small-L" ...
I had hopes for them, never realized.

> The choice in most countries is simply which set of two cheeks of the
> same fascist arse you want to dictate to you how you must live.

Yep ... the 'fascists' hold the gun to the RIGHT side
of your head while the communists ......

But it's all really the same - gun to your head .....

On 2023-07-26, 36J.256 <36J256@qfxw7.net> wrote:

> On 7/14/23 1:36 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> The choice in most countries is simply which set of two cheeks of
>> the same fascist arse you want to dictate to you how you must live.
>
> Yep ... the 'fascists' hold the gun to the RIGHT side
> of your head while the communists ......
>
> But it's all really the same - gun to your head .....

Under capitalism man exploits man.
Under communism it's just the opposite.
-- John Kenneth Galbraith

I've always felt that voting in an election is like choosing
whether you want to be shot or stabbed. You can't vote for
the one who's going to benefit you the most; he doesn't exist.
So you must vote for the one who will hurt you the least.
In extreme cases, hold your nose and vote for someone you
don't like but who is most likely to stop the one will
_really_ hurt you.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | You can't save the earth
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | unless you're willing to
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | make other people sacrifice.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Dogbert the green consultant

On 26/07/2023 17:29, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2023-07-26, 36J.256 <36J256@qfxw7.net> wrote:
>
>> On 7/14/23 1:36 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> The choice in most countries is simply which set of two cheeks of
>>> the same fascist arse you want to dictate to you how you must live.
>>
>> Yep ... the 'fascists' hold the gun to the RIGHT side
>> of your head while the communists ......
>>
>> But it's all really the same - gun to your head .....
>
> Under capitalism man exploits man.
> Under communism it's just the opposite.
> -- John Kenneth Galbraith
>
> I've always felt that voting in an election is like choosing
> whether you want to be shot or stabbed. You can't vote for
> the one who's going to benefit you the most; he doesn't exist.
> So you must vote for the one who will hurt you the least.
> In extreme cases, hold your nose and vote for someone you
> don't like but who is most likely to stop the one will
> _really_ hurt you.
>
"It doesn't matter who you vote for: The government always gets in"
Pete Townshend
--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.
-- Yogi Berra

On 7/26/23 12:29 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2023-07-26, 36J.256 <36J256@qfxw7.net> wrote:
>
>> On 7/14/23 1:36 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> The choice in most countries is simply which set of two cheeks of
>>> the same fascist arse you want to dictate to you how you must live.
>>
>> Yep ... the 'fascists' hold the gun to the RIGHT side
>> of your head while the communists ......
>>
>> But it's all really the same - gun to your head .....
>
> Under capitalism man exploits man.
> Under communism it's just the opposite.
> -- John Kenneth Galbraith
>
> I've always felt that voting in an election is like choosing
> whether you want to be shot or stabbed. You can't vote for
> the one who's going to benefit you the most; he doesn't exist.
> So you must vote for the one who will hurt you the least.
> In extreme cases, hold your nose and vote for someone you
> don't like but who is most likely to stop the one will
> _really_ hurt you.

There is a fallacy, at least over the past century,
about western 'democracy'. It is no longer about
the Will Of The People, or even the best interests
of The People. It's all gone very Machiavellian.

But I'm not so sure what to DO about it.

The People prefer blissful ignorance - the attractive
bullshit of the day. They will not, or can not, analyze
in detail. Too much work - too scary, too deep. The
Game comes on at 8 ...

Those few who DO see issues - well, too FEW. Not very
relevant. Won't change the course of things.

To paraphrase Lincoln - You can't fool all of the
people all of the time ... BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Just fool ENOUGH, often ENOUGH. The rest don't
matter.

Hey, maybe this is why so many idiots buy Windows ? :-)

On 7/26/23 2:40 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 26/07/2023 17:29, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2023-07-26, 36J.256 <36J256@qfxw7.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/14/23 1:36 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> The choice in most countries is simply which set of two cheeks of
>>>> the same fascist arse you want to dictate to you how you must live.
>>>
>>>     Yep ... the 'fascists' hold the gun to the RIGHT side
>>>     of your head while the communists ......
>>>
>>>     But it's all really the same - gun to your head .....
>>
>>      Under capitalism man exploits man.
>>      Under communism it's just the opposite.
>>        -- John Kenneth Galbraith
>>
>> I've always felt that voting in an election is like choosing
>> whether you want to be shot or stabbed.  You can't vote for
>> the one who's going to benefit you the most; he doesn't exist.
>> So you must vote for the one who will hurt you the least.
>> In extreme cases, hold your nose and vote for someone you
>> don't like but who is most likely to stop the one will
>> _really_ hurt you.
>>
> "It doesn't matter who you vote for: The government always gets in"
> Pete Townshend

He was correct.

Doesn't matter what party or cause they claim
to represent - under the name tag there's another
name tag that says "Fuckin' POLITICIAN".

Same Old Shit, just a different label.

And, apparently, there's not a damned thing
to DO about it.

On 27/07/2023 06:00, 36J.256 wrote:
> On 7/26/23 12:29 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2023-07-26, 36J.256 <36J256@qfxw7.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/14/23 1:36 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> The choice in most countries is simply which set of two cheeks of
>>>> the same fascist arse you want to dictate to you how you must live.
>>>
>>>     Yep ... the 'fascists' hold the gun to the RIGHT side
>>>     of your head while the communists ......
>>>
>>>     But it's all really the same - gun to your head .....
>>
>>      Under capitalism man exploits man.
>>      Under communism it's just the opposite.
>>        -- John Kenneth Galbraith
>>
>> I've always felt that voting in an election is like choosing
>> whether you want to be shot or stabbed.  You can't vote for
>> the one who's going to benefit you the most; he doesn't exist.
>> So you must vote for the one who will hurt you the least.
>> In extreme cases, hold your nose and vote for someone you
>> don't like but who is most likely to stop the one will
>> _really_ hurt you.
>
>   There is a fallacy, at least over the past century,
>   about western 'democracy'. It is no longer about
>   the Will Of The People, or even the best interests
>   of The People. It's all gone very Machiavellian.
>
>   But I'm not so sure what to DO about it.
>
>   The People prefer blissful ignorance - the attractive
>   bullshit of the day. They will not, or can not, analyze
>   in detail. Too much work - too scary, too deep. The
>   Game comes on at 8 ...
>
>   Those few who DO see issues - well, too FEW. Not very
>   relevant. Won't change the course of things.
>
>   To paraphrase Lincoln - You can't fool all of the
>   people all of the time ... BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER.
>   Just fool ENOUGH, often ENOUGH. The rest don't
>   matter.
>
>   Hey, maybe this is why so many idiots buy Windows ?  :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy is the goto reference

--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

On 2023-07-27, 36J.256 <36J256@qfxw7.net> wrote:

> On 7/26/23 2:40 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> "It doesn't matter who you vote for: The government always gets in"
>> Pete Townshend
>
> He was correct.
>
> Doesn't matter what party or cause they claim
> to represent - under the name tag there's another
> name tag that says "Fuckin' POLITICIAN".
>
> Same Old Shit, just a different label.
>
> And, apparently, there's not a damned thing
> to DO about it.

Live the best life you can despite the bastards.
That's the ultimate act of rebellion.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | You can't save the earth
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | unless you're willing to
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | make other people sacrifice.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Dogbert the green consultant

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> On 2023-07-12, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 12/07/2023 01:11, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-07-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/07/2023 18:02, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
>>>>> control can solve all problems.
>>>>
>>>> Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to themselves and using
>>>> methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills will never
>>>> arrive and wont need solving
>>>
>>> That's great for the oligarchs, and the rest of us don't count,
>>> so I guess you're right.
>>
>> There is a difference between conservatism and fascism
>
> Perhaps, but moderate conservatives are an endangered species.

Moderate people of any stripe seem to be an endangered species.

I wish we had more of the "we disagree, but we can talk about it and
reach a compromise." Instead we have completely polarized thinking and
people that hate anyone that doesn't agree with them.

On Sat, 29 Jul 2023 15:18:42 -0400, Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> Moderate people of any stripe seem to be an endangered species.

It's all about money and other forms of power. It's all due to greed.

Politicians use divisions to motivate people to support them with money and
votes.

Social media companies amplify the divisions to keep people hooked on reading
and posting, so they can get more advertising revenue.

Governments target other countries with articles designed to promote divisions,
to weaken them.

The people with the most money and/or power like it when everyone is divided
so they fight with each other instead of fighting against them.

They don't care about what is good for society, as long as they benefit. That's
true for both the right and left wing groups.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

On 29/07/2023 22:04, David W. Hodgins wrote:
> The people with the most money and/or power like it when everyone is
> divided so they fight with each other instead of fighting against
> them.
>
> They don't care about what is good for society, as long as they
> benefit. That's true for both the right and left wing groups.

Amen.

--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!