Yep, I'm of "that age" now.

Unfortunately where I've been working has driven
away TWO of the best likely successors, the latest
just recently. Sorry, I can't start all over again
training anyone new. The last guy was promising,
the amiable nerd you'd want. They put too much
pressure on and he's GONE.

Now I'd gotten the essentials down to better and
better refined/simpler code and systems - stuff even
a so-so programmer could understand and maintain.
Everything needed to make things work smooth and
have plenty of redundancy Just In Case.

So, have I wasted my time ???

To a point, yes. To a point, no.

I *did* keep it all together for a very long time.
This dealt with a variety of challenges and threats
and necessary innovations. I built my share of new
software, even embedded devices you couldn't buy
anywhere at the time. Got tons of electronic junk
in the drawers.

LOTS of jobs are like that - not any "ultimate
solution", just dealing with current events.
Consider cops and firefighters, even doctors.
IT is kind of like that too.

The Future is gonna be 100% cloud, back to the
damned thin-client/server days, soon 100%
"AI". It will NOT be ideal for various important
reasons but it's soon gonna be all that can
be had. The Company will hire outside 'experts'
who will force them that way. Then the experts
will go out of biz suddenly and all the data will
be lost (and likely pirated just before that).

There will be no 'programmers' or even 'sys-admins',
the AI's will do it all in their own inscruitible
ways. The pointy-haired bosses will kinda generally
describe what they want and the AIs will code it
on the fly. Then the pointy-haired bosses get theirs,
and then their bosses .........

There IS a trap - disemployed humans can't BUY much
of anything. The AI/cloud profit promise will implode.
Not sure if we can even GET to "robotopia" because of
that. Likely not, at least not in any relevant
time context for this and several generations.

But, on the plus, SS and a fair pension and I'd
never spent nearly what I'd earned - so I'm kinda
set. The Future will go on (and mostly crash)
without me. Told 'em so. It was all pretty good
and interesting, so I'm not gonna complain. Many
can NOT say that. Sorry.

Am 10.07.2023 um 00:33:14 Uhr schrieb 36J.955:

> There will be no 'programmers' or even 'sys-admins',
> the AI's will do it all in their own inscruitible
> ways. The pointy-haired bosses will kinda generally
> describe what they want and the AIs will code it
> on the fly.

At least today the AI bots are that worse that I won't trust them
writing a letter. There are mistakes and I need to control everything
if I want to use the AI output for any productive system.

36J.955 <36J955@qfxw6.net> wrote:
> There will be no 'programmers' or even 'sys-admins',
> the AI's will do it all in their own inscruitible
> ways.

What you are seeing is the globohomo (=WEF) takeover of everything
(not just IT) and the end of market competition forced by
hyperregulation and central bank refinancing of systemic zombie
corporations.

> But, on the plus, SS and a fair pension and I'd
> never spent nearly what I'd earned - so I'm kinda
> set. The Future will go on (and mostly crash)
> without me.

At some point the thing will collapse under it's own weight,
but that will not happen immediately. It will take decades,
and the implosion will be traumatic for everybody, even worser
than the end of the USSR.

On 7/10/23 2:25 AM, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 10.07.2023 um 00:33:14 Uhr schrieb 36J.955:
>
>> There will be no 'programmers' or even 'sys-admins',
>> the AI's will do it all in their own inscruitible
>> ways. The pointy-haired bosses will kinda generally
>> describe what they want and the AIs will code it
>> on the fly.
>
> At least today the AI bots are that worse that I won't trust them
> writing a letter. There are mistakes and I need to control everything
> if I want to use the AI output for any productive system.

Most prejudices are based on Chat-3.5 ... but 4.0 is
out now. What will 5.0 look like ? There is a gigantic
amount of money and effort being put into 'perfecting'
this approach to 'AI' - even bigger and wider than
the Apollo program. Every biz/industry is convinced
they'll save terabucks by replacing those annoying
human-things with AI's (forgetting that disemployed
human-things can't BUY anything).

Anyway, be careful about discounting these new "AI"s.
Development/refinement is hyper-rapid. Some are on
the cusp of gainful SELF-improvement now - evolution
at electronic speeds. MY best guess - they will
achieve something indistinguishable from sentience
within five years. Chats are not the ONLY routes
to "AI" either ...

Oh yea, once they ARE intelligent - is it "artificial"
thereafter ? Sounds kinda 'racist' IMHO :-)

ANYway ... looks like maybe I'm hitting the silk at
about the right moment. Programming/sys-admin stuff
is about to move into the 'blacksmithing' category.

The only good bit - the pointy-haired bosses will
be the NEXT to get screwed. I'll be their "residual
people-jobs" senior :-)

On 7/10/23 9:44 AM, Anon wrote:
> 36J.955 <36J955@qfxw6.net> wrote:
>> There will be no 'programmers' or even 'sys-admins',
>> the AI's will do it all in their own inscruitible
>> ways.
>
> What you are seeing is the globohomo (=WEF) takeover of everything
> (not just IT) and the end of market competition forced by
> hyper-regulation and central bank refinancing of systemic zombie
> corporations.

Um, that's quite an ear-full ........

Note that there's no evidence that "leftist" takes
on biz/finance/sociology actually WORK. Therefore
we can expect this "globohomo" to fail spectacularly.

>> But, on the plus, SS and a fair pension and I'd
>> never spent nearly what I'd earned - so I'm kinda
>> set. The Future will go on (and mostly crash)
>> without me.
>
> At some point the thing will collapse under it's own weight,
> but that will not happen immediately. It will take decades,
> and the implosion will be traumatic for everybody, even worser
> than the end of the USSR.

Rome didn't "fall", it slowly fell apart. Apathy and
idiocy and disunion grew, and eventually took its toll.

Oh well, the Visigoths weren't THAT bad :-)

On 11/07/2023 06:16, 36J.955 wrote:
>> What you are seeing is the globohomo (=WEF) takeover of everything
>> (not just IT) and the end of market competition forced by
>> hyper-regulation and central bank refinancing of systemic zombie
>> corporations.
>
>   Um, that's quite an ear-full ........
>
>   Note that there's no evidence that "leftist" takes
>   on biz/finance/sociology actually WORK. Therefore
>   we can expect this "globohomo" to fail spectacularly.
>
The evidence is all to the contrary. The Left myth is that centralised
government analysis and control can solve all problems. The reality is
that mostly they are too simplistic to be of any use and in many cases
make things infinitely worse.

>>> But, on the plus, SS and a fair pension and I'd
>>> never spent nearly what I'd earned - so I'm kinda
>>> set. The Future will go on (and mostly crash)
>>> without me.
>>
>> At some point the thing will collapse under it's own weight,
>> but that will not happen immediately. It will take decades,
>> and the implosion will be traumatic for everybody, even worser
>> than the end of the USSR.
>
>   Rome didn't "fall", it slowly fell apart. Apathy and
>   idiocy and disunion grew, and eventually took its toll.
>
Joseph Tainter's 'Collapse of Complex Civilisations' would make the
point that what happens is that successful strategies, developed over
time, become inappropriate when circumstances change, but the whole
society by then is geared to implementing those solutions, which no
longer work.

The apparatus of state control is so vast and has so many people
invested in it, that it cannot change, so it is simply superseded.
Instead of the Roman tax man you pay the Visigoth warlord LESS.

>   Oh well, the Visigoths weren't THAT bad  😄

Yes and no. Te average peasant was probably better off. But the loss of
learning and education was essentially why we call it the Dark Ages.

--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

On 2023-07-11 07:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 11/07/2023 06:16, 36J.955 wrote:

....

>>> At some point the thing will collapse under it's own weight,
>>> but that will not happen immediately. It will take decades,
>>> and the implosion will be traumatic for everybody, even worser
>>> than the end of the USSR.
>>
>>    Rome didn't "fall", it slowly fell apart. Apathy and
>>    idiocy and disunion grew, and eventually took its toll.
>>
> Joseph Tainter's 'Collapse of Complex Civilisations' would make the
> point that what happens is that successful strategies, developed over
> time, become inappropriate when circumstances change, but the whole
> society by then is geared to implementing those solutions, which no
> longer work.
>
> The apparatus of state control is so vast and has so many people
> invested in it, that it cannot change, so it is simply superseded.
> Instead of the Roman tax man you pay the Visigoth warlord LESS.
>
>>    Oh well, the Visigoths weren't THAT bad  😄
>
> Yes and no. Te average peasant was probably better off. But the loss of
> learning and education was essentially why we call it the Dark Ages.

And the loss of public works and maintenance. For instance, road
maintenance.

The Romans had a wonderful road network, well maintained. I remember a
documentary about roman roads. There is a bridge somewhere in France
that was used for centuries, till it was decided to be closed to
traffic, it was dangerous. The passing of carts over the centuries had
worn grooves that reduced the thickness of the key stones and the bridge
could collapse.

Was that normal?

No, the romans were not daft, the bridge had a layer of gravels on top
of the bridge stones, so that the wheels did not touch the stones of the
bridge.

This happened to all roads, the gravel disappeared and the bigger stones
beneath appeared, so that passage of the ancient roads was not practical.

So commerce and exchange was reduced a lot.

Cities had to be abandoned soon after the maintenance of the aqueducts
stopped, and there was no water for the people inside the cities. I
guess they also lost the dirty waters works. So more dirt and rats.

There was also loss of medicine, so quality of life went down.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 11/07/2023 13:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-07-11 07:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 11/07/2023 06:16, 36J.955 wrote:
>
> ...
>
>>>> At some point the thing will collapse under it's own weight,
>>>> but that will not happen immediately. It will take decades,
>>>> and the implosion will be traumatic for everybody, even worser
>>>> than the end of the USSR.
>>>
>>>    Rome didn't "fall", it slowly fell apart. Apathy and
>>>    idiocy and disunion grew, and eventually took its toll.
>>>
>> Joseph Tainter's 'Collapse of Complex Civilisations' would make the
>> point that what happens is that successful strategies, developed over
>> time, become inappropriate when circumstances change, but the whole
>> society by then is geared to implementing those solutions, which no
>> longer work.
>>
>> The apparatus of state control is so vast and has so many people
>> invested in it, that it cannot change, so it is simply superseded.
>> Instead of the Roman tax man you pay the Visigoth warlord LESS.
>>
>>>    Oh well, the Visigoths weren't THAT bad  😄
>>
>> Yes and no. Te average peasant was probably better off. But the loss
>> of learning and education was essentially why we call it the Dark Ages.
>
> And the loss of public works and maintenance. For instance, road
> maintenance.
>
The indigenous peoples didnt *need* roads to move armies around to quash
rebellions nor to move huge quantities of wheat from the provinces back
to Rome.

De-globalisation in action.

> The Romans had a wonderful road network, well maintained. I remember a
> documentary about roman roads. There is a bridge somewhere in France
> that was used for centuries, till it was decided to be closed to
> traffic, it was dangerous. The passing of carts over the centuries had
> worn grooves that reduced the thickness of the key stones and the bridge
> could collapse.
>
> Was that normal?
>
> No, the romans were not daft, the bridge had a layer of gravels on top
> of the bridge stones, so that the wheels did not touch the stones of the
> bridge.
>
> This happened to all roads, the gravel disappeared and the bigger stones
> beneath appeared, so that passage of the ancient roads was not practical.
>
> So commerce and exchange was reduced a lot.
>
> Cities had to be abandoned soon after the maintenance of the aqueducts
> stopped, and there was no water for the people inside the cities. I
> guess they also lost the dirty waters works. So more dirt and rats.
>
>
> There was also loss of medicine, so quality of life went down.
>

The indigenous populations did not live in cities and could not afford
medicine either.

Why would they care what happened to a colonial powers artefacts?

--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

36J.955 <36J955@qfxw6.net> wrote:
> Um, that's quite an ear-full ........
>
> Note that there's no evidence that "leftist" takes
> on biz/finance/sociology actually WORK. Therefore
> we can expect this "globohomo" to fail spectacularly.

The name "globohomo" is quite recent and it alludes to the alliance
between the corporate world and the postmodern left since 2008,
but the corporate takeover of everything began decades earlier
in the 80s and 90s with things like ISO-9000 and the WTO.

It will take time, but the thing is deemed to fail, since it makes the
production of anything extremely complicated. There are too many
"stakeholders", and too many cookers spoil the broth.

On 11/07/2023 15:40, Anon wrote:
> 36J.955 <36J955@qfxw6.net> wrote:
>> Um, that's quite an ear-full ........
>>
>> Note that there's no evidence that "leftist" takes
>> on biz/finance/sociology actually WORK. Therefore
>> we can expect this "globohomo" to fail spectacularly.
>
> The name "globohomo" is quite recent and it alludes to the alliance
> between the corporate world and the postmodern left since 2008,
> but the corporate takeover of everything began decades earlier
> in the 80s and 90s with things like ISO-9000 and the WTO.
>
> It will take time, but the thing is deemed to fail, since it makes the
> production of anything extremely complicated. There are too many
> "stakeholders", and too many cookers spoil the broth.

It is the success of the long term aim of the Communist Party's 'Long
March through the Institutions'* whereby Communist party members were
instructed to seek employment in unions, schools, Universities, the
civil service, journalism and just about any non productive sphere that
had influence over social policy.
They have succeeded and set about destroying the nations they now control.
The corporations were ultimately happy to let them do it, because state
guaranteed profits beat competitive markets any day of the week.

*Rudi Dutschke

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_march_through_the_institutions
--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

On 2023-07-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 11/07/2023 06:16, 36J.955 wrote:
>
>>   Note that there's no evidence that "leftist" takes
>>   on biz/finance/sociology actually WORK. Therefore
>>   we can expect this "globohomo" to fail spectacularly.
>
> The evidence is all to the contrary. The Left myth is that
> centralised government analysis and control can solve all problems.

The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
control can solve all problems.

> The reality is that mostly they are too simplistic to be of
> any use and in many cases make things infinitely worse.

Ditto. While we were discussing left vs. right one day,
a wise person pointed out that they both meet somewhere
around on the dark side.

>>   Oh well, the Visigoths weren't THAT bad  😄
>
> Yes and no. Te average peasant was probably better off.
> But the loss of learning and education was essentially
> why we call it the Dark Ages.

And today's loss of learning and education is why
the next Dark Age is on the way.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | You can't save the earth
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | unless you're willing to
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | make other people sacrifice.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Dogbert the green consultant

On 11/07/2023 18:02, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
> control can solve all problems.
Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to themselves and using
methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills will never
arrive and wont need solving
--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

On 2023-07-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 11/07/2023 18:02, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
>> control can solve all problems.
>
> Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to themselves and using
> methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills will never
> arrive and wont need solving

That's great for the oligarchs, and the rest of us don't count,
so I guess you're right.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | You can't save the earth
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | unless you're willing to
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | make other people sacrifice.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Dogbert the green consultant

On 7/11/23 1:29 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 11/07/2023 06:16, 36J.955 wrote:
>>> What you are seeing is the globohomo (=WEF) takeover of everything
>>> (not just IT) and the end of market competition forced by
>>> hyper-regulation and central bank refinancing of systemic zombie
>>> corporations.
>>
>>    Um, that's quite an ear-full ........
>>
>>    Note that there's no evidence that "leftist" takes
>>    on biz/finance/sociology actually WORK. Therefore
>>    we can expect this "globohomo" to fail spectacularly.
>>
> The evidence is all to the contrary. The Left myth is that centralised
> government analysis and control can solve all problems. The reality is
> that mostly they are too simplistic to be of any use and in many cases
> make things infinitely worse.

Um ... kinda exactly what I was saying ...

Leftist "economics" is a brain-damaged ultra-simplification
of How Things Have To Work. It'll always be a DISASTER.

Marx patterned "communism" after how lower/middle-class
families in rural Germany did things - all for one and
one for all. Seemed all so perfect. An ideal. Thing is
that mentality never extends much beyond immediate
family, I suspect it's a genetic thing. Beyond that
line it all becomes the politics of screwing your
neighbors and the "betters" you're jealous of.

>>>> But, on the plus, SS and a fair pension and I'd
>>>> never spent nearly what I'd earned - so I'm kinda
>>>> set. The Future will go on (and mostly crash)
>>>> without me.
>>>
>>> At some point the thing will collapse under it's own weight,
>>> but that will not happen immediately. It will take decades,
>>> and the implosion will be traumatic for everybody, even worser
>>> than the end of the USSR.
>>
>>    Rome didn't "fall", it slowly fell apart. Apathy and
>>    idiocy and disunion grew, and eventually took its toll.
>>
> Joseph Tainter's 'Collapse of Complex Civilisations' would make the
> point that what happens is that successful strategies, developed over
> time, become inappropriate when circumstances change, but the whole
> society by then is geared to implementing those solutions, which no
> longer work.

Yep, yesterdays solutions become entrenched - indeed
seen as a lifeline. Alas "today's solutions" may not
be one speck better ...

> The apparatus of state control is so vast and has so many people
> invested in it, that it cannot change, so it is simply superseded.
> Instead of the Roman tax man you pay the Visigoth warlord LESS.

Mostly agreed - the Leviathan now wraps itself around the
entire globe. It's so big that you can't even see it if
you look. Everything Everywhere All The Time. Vaguely like
how "The Matrix" was described.

Hmm ... there was an older, odd, movie about King Arthur
where Merlin told young Arthur what/where The Dragon was.

>>    Oh well, the Visigoths weren't THAT bad  😄
>
> Yes and no. Te average peasant was probably better off. But the loss of
> learning and education was essentially why we call it the Dark Ages.

Well, the "average peasant" wasn't MATERIALLY better off,
they lived pretty poor and always got the short end of
the proverbial stick. However, regardless, they may have
been a bit HAPPIER than their urban/Roman counterparts.
Things were simple, basic, you could at least FEEL like
you were mostly In Control.

But now we're WELL off Linux/SysAdmin stuff ... I'd
suggest one of the 'political' groups.

On 7/11/23 11:00 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 11/07/2023 15:40, Anon wrote:
>> 36J.955 <36J955@qfxw6.net> wrote:
>>>    Um, that's quite an ear-full ........
>>>
>>>    Note that there's no evidence that "leftist" takes
>>>    on biz/finance/sociology actually WORK. Therefore
>>>    we can expect this "globohomo" to fail spectacularly.
>>
>> The name "globohomo" is quite recent and it alludes to the alliance
>> between the corporate world and the postmodern left since 2008,
>> but the corporate takeover of everything began decades earlier
>> in the 80s and 90s with things like ISO-9000 and the WTO.
>>
>> It will take time, but the thing is deemed to fail, since it makes the
>> production of anything extremely complicated.  There are too many
>> "stakeholders", and too many cookers spoil the broth.
>
> It is the success of the long term aim of the Communist Party's 'Long
> March through the Institutions'* whereby Communist party members were
> instructed to seek employment in unions, schools, Universities,  the
> civil service, journalism and just about any non productive sphere that
> had influence over social policy.
> They have succeeded and set about destroying the nations they now control.
> The corporations were ultimately happy to let them do it, because state
> guaranteed profits beat competitive markets any day of the week.
>
> *Rudi Dutschke
>
>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_march_through_the_institutions

They had A Plan - apparently nobody else did.

Their plan WORKED.

And we'll be a century or more - if ever - coming up
with a better plan.

"Reality Control" is THE Thing. They've done it
brilliantly. On par with the HRCC, Islam and
the old witch-hunters.

But this ain't Linux anymore ...

I was more wondering how ever-advancing "AI" was
going to impact careers in "programming" and
systems administration. The pointy-haired bosses
really WILL be able -very soon- to just DESCRIBE
what kinds of reports with what data they want
and the 'AI' will compose it for them on the fly.
No more Excel or Word or LibreOffice or ArcGIS
or Python or 'C' or anything - the AI's will do it
one-off on demand in their own human-incomprehensible
way. From then on it's "magic".

Retiring NOW is maybe THE best time. I won't be
laid-off or fired because what I've been doing is
STILL relevant. Not for much LONGER though. I'm
gonna stick to my prediction - FIVE years. Beyond
that Chat/Bard and friends will achieve de-facto
sentience ... with all the knowledge/methods the
internet can teach at their disposal.

And there are several other promising paths to "AI"
and the neural-network hardware is rapidly getting
better and faster.

Chat 3.5 was trained on 'human stuff' - and then
immediately learned to fabricate/lie/bullshit.
Google said the other day that it's now confiscating
all "public data" for training AI's - so now the things
get a LOT more detailed "human stuff". Frankly we
should have trained them on "bonobo stuff" or
something instead .....

On 12/07/2023 01:11, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2023-07-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 11/07/2023 18:02, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
>>> control can solve all problems.
>>
>> Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to themselves and using
>> methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills will never
>> arrive and wont need solving
>
> That's great for the oligarchs, and the rest of us don't count,
> so I guess you're right.
>
There is a difference between conservatism and fascism
--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On 2023-07-12, 36J.955 <36J955@qfxw6.net> wrote:

> "Reality Control" is THE Thing. They've done it
> brilliantly. On par with the HRCC, Islam and
> the old witch-hunters.

Heck, look at what they're calling "reality TV" these days...

> I was more wondering how ever-advancing "AI" was
> going to impact careers in "programming" and
> systems administration. The pointy-haired bosses
> really WILL be able -very soon- to just DESCRIBE
> what kinds of reports with what data they want
> and the 'AI' will compose it for them on the fly.

And the AI will tell them the same things that we do:
that their requests are illogical, inconsistent,
self-contradictory, and unable to fulfil until they
figure out how to compose a proper request. At least
we can get a laugh out of that from wherever limbo
we'll have been banished to.

> Retiring NOW is maybe THE best time. I won't be
> laid-off or fired because what I've been doing is
> STILL relevant.

I'm lucky too; I work in a small shop where my value
is recognized, and I'll be able to stay at it for as
long as I want.

> Chat 3.5 was trained on 'human stuff' - and then
> immediately learned to fabricate/lie/bullshit.
> Google said the other day that it's now confiscating
> all "public data" for training AI's - so now the things
> get a LOT more detailed "human stuff". Frankly we
> should have trained them on "bonobo stuff" or
> something instead .....

Nah, the chimps always seem to come in and drive out
those hippie peace-freak free-loving left-wing (gasp!)
bonobos. Otherwise, who's gonna fight the next war?

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | You can't save the earth
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | unless you're willing to
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | make other people sacrifice.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Dogbert the green consultant

On 2023-07-12, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 12/07/2023 01:11, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> On 2023-07-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/07/2023 18:02, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
>>>> control can solve all problems.
>>>
>>> Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to themselves and using
>>> methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills will never
>>> arrive and wont need solving
>>
>> That's great for the oligarchs, and the rest of us don't count,
>> so I guess you're right.
>
> There is a difference between conservatism and fascism

Perhaps, but moderate conservatives are an endangered species.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | You can't save the earth
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | unless you're willing to
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | make other people sacrifice.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Dogbert the green consultant

Am 12.07.23 um 09:11 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
> On 12/07/2023 01:11, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2023-07-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/07/2023 18:02, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
>>>> control can solve all problems.
>>>
>>> Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to themselves and using
>>> methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills will never
>>> arrive and wont need solving
>>
>> That's great for the oligarchs, and the rest of us don't count,
>> so I guess you're right.
>>
> There is a difference between conservatism and fascism

Not in the USA.

--
Prudentia potentia est

36J.955 <36J955@qfxw6.net> wrote:
> The pointy-haired bosses
> really WILL be able -very soon- to just DESCRIBE
> what kinds of reports with what data they want
> and the 'AI' will compose it for them on the fly.
> No more Excel or Word or LibreOffice or ArcGIS
> or Python or 'C' or anything - the AI's will do it
> one-off on demand in their own human-incomprehensible
> way. From then on it's "magic".

The pointy-haired bosses were the soft power network of the 90s.
They functioned in a simpler manner influenced by marketing trends,
and also bribed with things like invitation to conferences in nice
resorts if they bought X product.

In the post-2008 world the soft power networks are much more
sophisticated and overreaching with things like HR, ESG, DIE,
overcomplex legislations like GDPR, and a myriad of certifications.
Making an analogy with the Terminator movies, what we have today
is like the T-1000, while the PHBs in the Dilbert cartoons of the
90s were much less lethal T-800.

On 12/07/2023 20:49, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 12.07.23 um 09:11 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>> On 12/07/2023 01:11, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> On 2023-07-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/07/2023 18:02, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
>>>>> control can solve all problems.
>>>>
>>>> Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to themselves and using
>>>> methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills will never
>>>> arrive and wont need solving
>>>
>>> That's great for the oligarchs, and the rest of us don't count,
>>> so I guess you're right.
>>>
>> There is a difference between conservatism and fascism
>
> Not in the USA.
>
Yes in the USA
--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

On 7/12/23 4:34 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 12/07/2023 20:49, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 12.07.23 um 09:11 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>>> On 12/07/2023 01:11, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> On 2023-07-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/07/2023 18:02, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
>>>>>> control can solve all problems.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to themselves
>>>>> and using
>>>>> methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills will
>>>>> never
>>>>> arrive and wont need solving
>>>>
>>>> That's great for the oligarchs, and the rest of us don't count,
>>>> so I guess you're right.
>>>>
>>> There is a difference between conservatism and fascism
>>
>> Not in the USA.
>>
> Yes in the USA

Indeed !

But the WokieComs see ANYTHING even remotely outside
their realm as 101% "fascist".

I doubt any have even MET a "fascist". I'm old enough
to have encountered some left over from WW2.

Am 12.07.23 um 22:34 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
> On 12/07/2023 20:49, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 12.07.23 um 09:11 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>>> On 12/07/2023 01:11, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> On 2023-07-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/07/2023 18:02, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
>>>>>> control can solve all problems.
>>>>>
>>>>> Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to themselves and using
>>>>> methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills will never
>>>>> arrive and wont need solving
>>>>
>>>> That's great for the oligarchs, and the rest of us don't count,
>>>> so I guess you're right.
>>>>
>>> There is a difference between conservatism and fascism
>>
>> Not in the USA.
>>
> Yes in the USA

The GOP ist the largest fascist party in the world.
Under Ford that was quite different and then it deteriorated.

Today: Bigot and Fascist.

--
Prudentia potentia est

On 7/12/23 4:16 PM, Anon wrote:
> 36J.955 <36J955@qfxw6.net> wrote:
>> The pointy-haired bosses
>> really WILL be able -very soon- to just DESCRIBE
>> what kinds of reports with what data they want
>> and the 'AI' will compose it for them on the fly.
>> No more Excel or Word or LibreOffice or ArcGIS
>> or Python or 'C' or anything - the AI's will do it
>> one-off on demand in their own human-incomprehensible
>> way. From then on it's "magic".
>
> The pointy-haired bosses were the soft power network of the 90s.
> They functioned in a simpler manner influenced by marketing trends,
> and also bribed with things like invitation to conferences in nice
> resorts if they bought X product.
>
> In the post-2008 world the soft power networks are much more
> sophisticated and overreaching with things like HR, ESG, DIE,
> overcomplex legislations like GDPR, and a myriad of certifications.
> Making an analogy with the Terminator movies, what we have today
> is like the T-1000, while the PHBs in the Dilbert cartoons of the
> 90s were much less lethal T-800.

T-800s were surely annoying/stupid enough ...

ANYWAY, the evolution of current "AI" paradigms
ARE creating a "programmer-less" universe. Be
ready for it - make yer choices NOW before your
functional/fiscal value becomes zero.

I used the term "magic" for a reason - it means
that you get more or less what sophisticated stuff
you want, but HOW it is created is a total mystery.

The pointy-hairs and immediate successors will survive
on that for a LITTLE while. Then THEY will become
obsolete too.

FIFTEEN years ... I see giant corps with maybe just
half a dozen human "executives" and the AI's and AI
powered bots will do EVERYTHING. They THINK they'll
get rich by firing all their annoying humans - but
disemployed humans can't BUY anything. It's a lethal
trap.

I was doing biz with my lawyer a little while back and
he seemed very interested in the evolving state of "AI".
Said he had a niece in some engineering-related field
and had encouraged her to get into the 401-k and such
programs immediately. She responded that she wasn't
gonna have a job for all that much longer, that the
"AI"s were sure to replace her. Ergo those programs
were irrelevant. THEY know - but the older gen refuses
to understand, still in the "steam" and "horse-shoes"-
era mindset.

Oh well, the Soylent trucksy will come by (most) days.
Scramble for your packets. Those packets will get
smaller and smaller though ... because you're not
NEEDED by the top elite anymore. The one percent
can live wonderfully without the sweaty unwashed
masses by and large.

Know how to work a sail-boat ? Catch a fish ? If so
you MAY be one of the few survivors 25 years hence.
It's a Bizzaro world WE have created ourselves. All
perfectly "logical", "sensible" ...

If NOT ... well ... better have at least 7 (diversified)
figures saved up by now.

No, I'm not kidding, not trying to be dramatic ...
think about it, trace it out ...

And the "AI"s ? They can do their bit initially
using something like "lego programming" - little
functional modules they can easily string together.
Doesn't take much "intelligence" to appease the
point-haired bosses needs. Beyond that, YOU won't
be able to understand what they're doing or how.
Probably nobody. "Magic".

There are several viable approaches to "AI" in the
works right now. The "Chat-Bot" approach is only
one of those. VAST money/effort is being poured
into this worldwide. Vast.

On 7/12/23 3:01 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2023-07-12, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 12/07/2023 01:11, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-07-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/07/2023 18:02, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Right myth is that centralized corporate analysis and
>>>>> control can solve all problems.
>>>>
>>>> Completely wrong. The right myth is that, left to themselves and using
>>>> methods their ancestors found to work, most of societies ills will never
>>>> arrive and wont need solving
>>>
>>> That's great for the oligarchs, and the rest of us don't count,
>>> so I guess you're right.
>>
>> There is a difference between conservatism and fascism
>
> Perhaps, but moderate conservatives are an endangered species.

"Moderate"/Sensible ANYTHING are endangered species.

Mostly it's the MSM - if even unintentionally. They
make their money from flames and conflict - and thus
wind up promoting extremists who can NEVER get along,
NEVER do the Right Thing.