Why does the mal-informed world prefer Python to Perl?

Perl has EVERYTHING that Python can offer (and probably a lot
more). Check out CPAN (www.cpan.org) which offers hundreds
of thousands of Perl modules that can serve any purpose.

I suspect the reason is that Perl is an "imperative" language
while Python is "object oriented."

Object orientation is for fucking programming sissies!

Listen up, you fucking OO assholes. It will all get translated
into imperative machine language in the fucking end. So why
take a fucking gargantuan fucking detour?

The answer is that OO "programmers" are programmers in name
only. They don't know fucking shit about computer science.

Perl is the interpretive language of choice.

Anyone who does not gleefully choose Perl is a brain-starved
idiot.

The case is closed.

Lester Thorpe

Lester has spoken.

Disagree? Your head will be broken.

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 19:45:29 +0000, Lester Thorpe wrote:

> Why does the ... world prefer Python to Perl?

I learned Perl before I learned Python.

With Perl, there was always this feeling of unplumbed depths, subtleties
just beyond my reach.

With Python, everything I did made sense.

It was easy to switch.

On 3/19/2024 2:45 PM, Lester Thorpe wrote:
> Why does the mal-informed world prefer Python to Perl?
>
> Perl has EVERYTHING that Python can offer (and probably a lot
> more). Check out CPAN (www.cpan.org) which offers hundreds
> of thousands of Perl modules that can serve any purpose.
>
> I suspect the reason is that Perl is an "imperative" language
> while Python is "object oriented."
>
> Object orientation is for fucking programming sissies!
>
> Listen up, you fucking OO assholes. It will all get translated
> into imperative machine language in the fucking end. So why
> take a fucking gargantuan fucking detour?
>
> The answer is that OO "programmers" are programmers in name
> only. They don't know fucking shit about computer science.
>
> Perl is the interpretive language of choice.
>
> Anyone who does not gleefully choose Perl is a brain-starved
> idiot.
>
> The case is closed.
>
> Lester Thorpe
>
> Lester has spoken.
>
> Disagree? Your head will be broken.
>

You know, I first gathered my energy to go after the good old C language
to freshen myself up with it, then I turned to assembly language cause
you said so as "a sage advice", then I found out my general questions
would be better answered if I learned hoc, then my general questions
made a turn, and I was left with chances that the best language for me
at the time was the good old C again; then on checking out Go and taking
Ken Thompson's words for it, I let C go and began preparing to go after
Go. And now, you're saying if we don't choose Perl we're brain-starved.

:-)

Then how about C++? I attempted it two times with vigor and thoroughness
and both times HD's went bust and also once (so 3 times in fact) the
laptop couldn't get charged anymore, and I could not transfer the work
to a desktop, so they came to stop.

And these Microsoft / Linux stuff and switches back and forth were
making the water even muddier.

I think, if I had not relied on COLA to provide help on these matters,
by now, I'd be months into fruitful learning of ... probably C++ and
into several exciting programming projects.

This place is wasteful. It is like a drinking parlor. You go there
everyday and drink and joke and curse and argue, but in the background,
it is making you an alcoholic, making you drift.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 18:47:40 -0500, Physfitfreak wrote:

> This place is wasteful. It is like a drinking parlor. You go there
> everyday and drink and joke and curse and argue, but in the background,
> it is making you an alcoholic, making you drift.

I haven't used Perl in a couple of decades but then I noticed the Q4OS
installation on the eeePC had a current version of Perl as well as nano so
I could conceivably do something to amuse myself with the /dev/sdb SD
card. After a quick on-line brush up I remembered why I don't use Perl.

It isn't all that bad a scripting language but it's open to abuse by those
who prefer cryptic code.

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 22:24:54 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> With Perl, there was always this feeling of unplumbed depths, subtleties
> just beyond my reach.

I suppose it saved typing a few characters but I never could keep $_, @_,
$$, $!, $@ and so forth straight. I did like that it closely followed C
conventions rather than Python's indentation scheme.

Then there was the fix, Perl 6, that hung fire so long it changed its name
out of embarrassment when it reached the age of majority.

On 3/19/2024 7:47 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:

> I think, if I had not relied on COLA to provide help on these matters,
> by now, I'd be months into fruitful learning of ... probably C++ and
> into several exciting programming projects.

Go with python (and pyqt or pyside for a GUI)

Sample of what you can do with them:

https://uploadnow.io/f/QGsMX7G

To run it:

1) install Python

2) install PyQt 5

3) extract the .7z file to a folder, and from the command line:

$ python usenet.py

and the GUI should open

On 20 Mar 2024 01:12:47 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> I suppose it saved typing a few characters but I never could keep $_,
> @_, $$, $!, $@ and so forth straight.

That was the easy part.

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 22:55:03 -0400, DFS wrote:

> To run it:
>
> 1) install Python
>
> 2) install PyQt 5

I've been using PySide6. There are some minor differences with signals but
otherwise it is the same. I think PySide is now the 'official' approach. I
think I've mentioned the pissing contest with Riverside over GPL versus
LGPL that gave rise to PySide.

One caveat: there is a line you can add that allows for more 'Pythonic'
function conventions,

from typing import Optional

so you can say

self.set_layout(layout)

rather than

self.setLayout(layout)

It might be more Pythonic and all that good stuff but it is not completely
implemented and some things still have to be camel case so I stopped
trying to use it.

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 22:24:54 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

>
> With Perl, there was always this feeling of unplumbed depths, subtleties
> just beyond my reach.
>
> With Python, everything I did made sense.
>

You have more or less just paraphrased what was atated in the original
post.

Since I learned assembly language way before anything else Perl is the
more natural language for me. OO tends to appeal to those who can't see
the machine.

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 18:47:40 -0500, Physfitfreak wrote:

>
> You know, I first gathered my energy to go after the good old C language
> to freshen myself up with it, then I turned to assembly language cause
> you said so as "a sage advice", then I found out my general questions
> would be better answered if I learned hoc, then my general questions
> made a turn, and I was left with chances that the best language for me
> at the time was the good old C again; then on checking out Go and taking
> Ken Thompson's words for it, I let C go and began preparing to go after
> Go. And now, you're saying if we don't choose Perl we're brain-starved.
>

If you want to learn programming then you must first give a definition
to the term "programming."

What is programming? Programming is the controlling of a digital computer.
That's all.

Therefore, in order to program one must first learn about the machine. One
must first learn about logic gates, Boolean algebra, etc. Then one must
learn machine language instructions.

After this, one can, for the sake of convenience, proceed to "higher
level" abstractions, i.e. a language like C. But any of these high
level languages do not actually control the machine. These abstractions
must be processed by compilers to produce actual machine-control
instructions.

Unfortunately, a lot (most?) so called programmers know very little about
digital hardware.

When I first took CompSci 101, I already had a deep background in assembly
and I watched as the other students, who didn't have this background,
stumbled over such things as character case conversions and pointers.

C is fairly low level. It does not completely obliterate the machine.
But other languages have succeeded to totally obscure the hardware and
it is these languages that are the most popular. In fact, most programmers
don't program. They will use frameworks that literally produce the code
for them. (They'll get paid big bucks until the framework falls out of
fashion. Then they'll end up at McDonalds because they have no REAL
programing skills.)

In conclusion:

Learn the machine and learn assembly. Then proceed to the conventional
abstract languages.

For your first assignment, learn how to add two unsigned digital integers:

10011011
+10111111

This operation uses digital adders and is very fast.

What happens when the result cannot fit into an 8-bit register?

Then learn how to express negative numbers and subtract using adders.

Post all questions here.

Nuxxie wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 22:24:54 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> With Perl, there was always this feeling of unplumbed depths, subtleties
>> just beyond my reach.
>>
>> With Python, everything I did made sense.
>
> You have more or less just paraphrased what was atated in the original
> post.
>
> Since I learned assembly language way before anything else Perl is the
> more natural language for me. OO tends to appeal to those who can't see
> the machine.

On one team I worked with, the language was assembler (MASM). The project had
some bigassed modules!

I showed the manager/programmer a book I'd bought on video processing. It
showed sample assembler code using C function-calling conventions (push bp; mov
bp,sp; add stack size to bp; run code; pop bp IIRC). He called the code
"obtuse". :-D

--
ROMEO: Courage, man; the hurt cannot be much.
MERCUTIO: No, 'tis not so deep as a well, nor so wide
as a church-door; but 'tis enough, 'twill serve.

This is why the only acceptable language to use is lean4. Embrace purely
functional programming!

On 3/20/2024 9:16 AM, Yaxley Peaks wrote:
>
> This is why the only acceptable language to use is lean4. Embrace purely
> functional programming!

How do you do this in lean4?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
characters = "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0123456789"
for i in range(len(characters)):
print(ord(characters[i]),end=',')
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,

Uh idk
--
(yaxp me) => t

On 3/20/2024 12:23 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 22:55:03 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>
>> To run it:
>>
>> 1) install Python
>>
>> 2) install PyQt 5
>
> I've been using PySide6.

Work or play?

My biggest PyQt app is nearly 2200 lines, incl comments and whitespace
and handling 7 different dbms's.

> There are some minor differences with signals but
> otherwise it is the same. I think PySide is now the 'official' approach. I
> think I've mentioned the pissing contest with Riverside over GPL versus
> LGPL that gave rise to PySide.

Thanks for the heads-up.

"Qt for Python is the project that provides the official set of Python
bindings (PySide6) that will supercharge your Python applications."

> One caveat: there is a line you can add that allows for more 'Pythonic'
> function conventions,
>
> from typing import Optional
>
> so you can say
>
> self.set_layout(layout)
>
> rather than
>
> self.setLayout(layout)
>
> It might be more Pythonic and all that good stuff but it is not completely
> implemented and some things still have to be camel case so I stopped
> trying to use it.

From what I read on PySide vs PyQt, the changes to my apps will be
minimal, mainly new imports and a few other little tweaks having to do
with the .ui files.

On 3/19/2024 7:47 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:

> I think, if I had not relied on COLA to provide help on these matters,
> by now, I'd be months into fruitful learning of ... probably C++ and
> into several exciting programming projects.

First off, don't listen to ANYTHING Feeb says about programming. He's
incompetent, a liar, a nutcase, and makes contradictory statements all
the time.

"Nothing but C from now on!"
"Only assembly for me from now on!"
"Python is for talentless idiots"
"Use Perl"
"C++ is for degenerate sissies"
"C++ is too complex"
"I despise OO programming"
"most programmers don't program. They will use frameworks that
literally produce the code for them."

That's all lies and idiocy.

I recently showed you 3 versions (C, python, VBA) of the same program.
Python was the fewest lines of code, looked the cleanest, and was
quickest to write.

After I learned enough python, I started working on the same problems
with C. C executes 5x to 10x faster than Python, but requires 3x to 5x
the amt of time and code. Note: you will NEVER recoup the extra C
development time with savings in program execution time.

I'd say work on learning Python and C at the same time. Leave C++ for
later.

> This place is wasteful. It is like a drinking parlor. You go there
> everyday and drink and joke and curse and argue, but in the background,
> it is making you an alcoholic, making you drift.

If you wanted to focus on programming, you would. Don't blame cola for
your moral shortcomings.

Here's something to get you started with python. This code reads the
Linux kernel CREDITS file, parses it, and posts the data to a SQLite
database table. I just now wrote the python, but the original program
was in C 3 years ago (for yet another programming challenge that weasel
Feeb couldn't handle).

======================================================================
Python
======================================================================

import sqlite3

#copy or concat lines into string
#if entry has 1 linetype (NEWPDS), copy line into var
#if entry has 2+ of the same linetype, concat lines
def processvals(val, data, sep):
if val[0] == ' ':
val = data
else:
val += sep
val += data
return val

#strings
entry,Nval,Eval,Wval,Pval,Dval,Sval = ' ',' ',' ',' ',' ',' ',' '

#create and open new SQLite db file
dbname = "kernel_credits_py.db";
conn = sqlite3.connect(dbname)
db = conn.cursor()

#create table
db.execute("DROP TABLE IF EXISTS CREDITS;")
db.execute("BEGIN TRANSACTION;")
sql = "CREATE TABLE CREDITS(nameid INTEGER NOT NULL PRIMARY KEY, name
TEXT NOT NULL, email TEXT DEFAULT 'na' NOT NULL, web TEXT DEFAULT 'na'
NOT NULL, pgp TEXT DEFAULT 'na' NOT NULL, description TEXT DEFAULT 'na'
NOT NULL, address TEXT DEFAULT 'na' NOT NULL);";
db.execute(sql)

#read kernel CREDITS file, post data to db table
#each credit entry has one name, and 0+ other lines
creditsfile = "KERNEL_CREDITS.txt"
lines = open(creditsfile,'r').readlines()
for line in lines:
if len(line) > 3: entry = line[3:-1] #drop NEWPDS prefixes
if line[0]=='N': Nval = entry
if line[0]=='E': Eval = processvals(Eval,entry," / ")
if line[0]=='W': Wval = processvals(Wval,entry," / ")
if line[0]=='P': Pval = processvals(Pval,entry," / ")
if line[0]=='D': Dval = processvals(Dval,entry," / ")
if line[0]=='S': Sval = processvals(Sval,entry,", ")
if line[0] == '\n':
sql = "INSERT INTO CREDITS (name,email,web,pgp,description,address)
VALUES (?,?,?,?,?,?);";
db.execute(sql,(Nval, Eval, Wval, Pval, Dval, Sval))
entry,Nval,Eval,Wval,Pval,Dval,Sval = ' ',' ',' ',' ',' ',' ',' '

conn.commit()

#print data in table
rows = db.execute("SELECT * FROM CREDITS ORDER BY nameID;")
for row in rows:
for i,colname in enumerate(db.description):
print("%-12s = %s" % (colname[0], row[i]))
print()
#count rows in table
db.execute("SELECT COUNT(*) FROM CREDITS;")
print("Done. %d records were posted to SQLite database '%s'" %
(db.fetchone()[0],dbname))

#version
print("running SQLite %s" % sqlite3.sqlite_version)

db.close()
conn.close()

======================================================================

======================================================================
C ======================================================================
// 1. install libsqlite3-dev (sudo apt install libsqlite3-dev)
// 2. copy the Linux kernel CREDITS file to the folder this program is in
// 3. rename it KERNEL_CREDITS.txt

// compilation: gcc -Wall source.c -o executable -lsqlite3

#include <sqlite3.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>

//used when retrieving data from SQLite
int callback(void *na, int argc, char **argv, char **azColName)
{ na = 0;
for (int i = 0; i < argc; i++) {
printf("%s = %s\n", azColName[i], argv[i] ? argv[i] : "NULL");
}
printf("\n");
return 0;
}

//right trim
void rtrim(char *s)
{ s[strlen(s)-1]='\0';
}

//copy or concat lines into string
//if entry has 1 linetype (NEWPDS), copy line into var
//if entry has 2+ of the same linetype, concat lines
void processvals(char *val, char *data, char *sep)
{ if(val[0] == '\0')
{
strncpy(val,data,strlen(data));
}
else
{ strncat(val,sep,3);
strncat(val,data,strlen(data));
}
}

int main(void) {

sqlite3 *db;
sqlite3_stmt *stmt;
char *error_msg = 0;
int rc = 0;
rc += 1; //without this nonsense, got compiler warning variable set
but not used
char line[1024] = "", entry[1024];
char Nval[1024] = ""; char Eval[1024] = ""; char Wval[1024] = "";
char Pval[1024] = ""; char Dval[1024] = ""; char Sval[1024] = {"\0"};

//count lines in file
int lines = 0;
FILE *fin = fopen("KERNEL_CREDITS.txt","r");
while (fgets(line,sizeof line, fin)!= NULL) {lines++;}

//create and open new db file
char *dbname = "kernel_credits.db";
rc = sqlite3_open(dbname, &db);

//create table
char *sql = "DROP TABLE IF EXISTS CREDITS;"
"BEGIN TRANSACTION;"
"CREATE TABLE CREDITS(nameid INTEGER NOT NULL PRIMARY
KEY, name TEXT NOT NULL, email TEXT DEFAULT 'na' NOT NULL, web TEXT
DEFAULT 'na' NOT NULL, pgp TEXT DEFAULT 'na' NOT NULL, description TEXT
DEFAULT 'na' NOT NULL, address TEXT DEFAULT 'na' NOT NULL);";
rc = sqlite3_exec(db, sql, 0, 0, &error_msg);

//read kernel CREDITS file, post data to db table
//each credit entry has one name, and 0+ other lines
int currentline = 0;
rewind(fin);
while (fgets(line,sizeof line, fin)!= NULL)
{
currentline++;
rtrim(line);
if(strlen(line) > 3) //drop NEWPDS prefixes
{
memset(entry,'\0',sizeof entry);
memcpy(entry, &line[3], strlen(line)-3);
entry[strlen(entry)] = '\0';
}
if(line[0]=='N') {strncpy(Nval,entry,strlen(entry));}
if(line[0]=='E') {processvals(Eval,entry," / ");}
if(line[0]=='W') {processvals(Wval,entry," / ");}
if(line[0]=='P') {processvals(Pval,entry," / ");}
if(line[0]=='D') {processvals(Dval,entry," / ");}
if(line[0]=='S') {processvals(Sval,entry,", ");}

if(line[0] == '\0' || currentline == lines)
{

sql = "INSERT INTO CREDITS (name,email,web,pgp,description,address) "
"VALUES (?,?,?,?,?,?);";
sqlite3_prepare_v2(db, sql, 2048, &stmt, NULL);
if(stmt != NULL) {

sqlite3_bind_text(stmt, 1, Nval, strlen(Nval), SQLITE_TRANSIENT);
sqlite3_bind_text(stmt, 2, Eval, strlen(Eval), SQLITE_TRANSIENT);
sqlite3_bind_text(stmt, 3, Wval, strlen(Wval), SQLITE_TRANSIENT);
sqlite3_bind_text(stmt, 4, Pval, strlen(Pval), SQLITE_TRANSIENT);
sqlite3_bind_text(stmt, 5, Dval, strlen(Dval), SQLITE_TRANSIENT);
sqlite3_bind_text(stmt, 6, Sval, strlen(Sval), SQLITE_TRANSIENT);

sqlite3_step(stmt);
sqlite3_finalize(stmt);

memset(entry,'\0',sizeof entry);
memset(Nval,'\0',sizeof Nval);
memset(Eval,'\0',sizeof Eval);
memset(Wval,'\0',sizeof Wval);
memset(Pval,'\0',sizeof Pval);
memset(Dval,'\0',sizeof Dval);
memset(Sval,'\0',sizeof Sval);

}
}
}
fclose(fin);
rc = sqlite3_exec(db, "COMMIT;", 0, 0, &error_msg);

On 3/20/2024 6:31 AM, Nuxxie wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 18:47:40 -0500, Physfitfreak wrote:
>
>>
>> You know, I first gathered my energy to go after the good old C language
>> to freshen myself up with it, then I turned to assembly language cause
>> you said so as "a sage advice", then I found out my general questions
>> would be better answered if I learned hoc, then my general questions
>> made a turn, and I was left with chances that the best language for me
>> at the time was the good old C again; then on checking out Go and taking
>> Ken Thompson's words for it, I let C go and began preparing to go after
>> Go. And now, you're saying if we don't choose Perl we're brain-starved.
>>
>
> If you want to learn programming then you must first give a definition
> to the term "programming."
>
> What is programming? Programming is the controlling of a digital computer.
> That's all.
>
> Therefore, in order to program one must first learn about the machine. One
> must first learn about logic gates, Boolean algebra, etc. Then one must
> learn machine language instructions.
>
> After this, one can, for the sake of convenience, proceed to "higher
> level" abstractions, i.e. a language like C. But any of these high
> level languages do not actually control the machine. These abstractions
> must be processed by compilers to produce actual machine-control
> instructions.
>
> Unfortunately, a lot (most?) so called programmers know very little about
> digital hardware.
>
> When I first took CompSci 101, I already had a deep background in assembly
> and I watched as the other students, who didn't have this background,
> stumbled over such things as character case conversions and pointers.
>
> C is fairly low level. It does not completely obliterate the machine.
> But other languages have succeeded to totally obscure the hardware and
> it is these languages that are the most popular. In fact, most programmers
> don't program. They will use frameworks that literally produce the code
> for them. (They'll get paid big bucks until the framework falls out of
> fashion. Then they'll end up at McDonalds because they have no REAL
> programing skills.)
>
> In conclusion:
>
> Learn the machine and learn assembly. Then proceed to the conventional
> abstract languages.
>
> For your first assignment, learn how to add two unsigned digital integers:
>
> 10011011
> +10111111
>
> This operation uses digital adders and is very fast.
>
> What happens when the result cannot fit into an 8-bit register?
>
> Then learn how to express negative numbers and subtract using adders.
>
> Post all questions here.
>

Hmm... I'm not that dedicated to the task. For now, I've made my mind,
and even have started the "learning curve" if such a thing exists for
qb64 :-)))

That'll do fine for baby problems, which I'm going to continue posting
to sci.physics as a blog.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 11:31:34 +0000, Nuxxie wrote:

> What is programming?

Programming is the building of higher-level machines on top of lower-level
ones.

I say “machine” in the general, abstract sense, not necessarily a piece of
hardware you can kick.

On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 18:46:59 +0530, Yaxley Peaks wrote:

> Embrace purely functional programming!

Purely-functional programming’s dirty little secret is that I/O cannot be
expressed in a purely-functional way.

On 3/20/2024 6:40 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:

> Hmm... I'm not that dedicated to the task. For now, I've made my mind,
> and even have started the "learning curve" if such a thing exists for
> qb64 :-)))

BAD choice.

> That'll do fine for baby problems

Baby problems for baby monkeys.

On 3/20/2024 7:31 AM, Lamentable Larry wrote:

> What is programming? Programming is the controlling of a digital computer.
> That's all.
>
> Therefore, in order to program one must first learn about the machine. One
> must first learn about logic gates, Boolean algebra, etc. Then one must
> learn machine language instructions.
>
> After this, one can, for the sake of convenience, proceed to "higher
> level" abstractions, i.e. a language like C. But any of these high
> level languages do not actually control the machine. These abstractions
> must be processed by compilers to produce actual machine-control
> instructions.
>
> Unfortunately, a lot (most?) so called programmers know very little about
> digital hardware.
>
> When I first took CompSci 101, I already had a deep background in assembly
> and I watched as the other students, who didn't have this background,
> stumbled over such things as character case conversions and pointers.
>
> C is fairly low level. It does not completely obliterate the machine.
> But other languages have succeeded to totally obscure the hardware and
> it is these languages that are the most popular.

Which is proof that your claim "in order to program one must first learn
about the machine." is nuts.

> In fact, most programmers
> don't program. They will use frameworks that literally produce the code
> for them. (They'll get paid big bucks until the framework falls out of
> fashion. Then they'll end up at McDonalds because they have no REAL
> programing skills.)

You can't possibly believe such ignorant drooling. You've said similar
things many times, but it's a troll, right?

> In conclusion:
>
> Learn the machine and learn assembly. Then proceed to the conventional
> abstract languages.

Quit giving out bad advice like this.

Assembly will scare off most people. It's far too tedious and
time-consuming.

Just learn Python and C side-by-side. Write a routine in one and
duplicate it in the other. It's enjoyable and educational.

On 3/20/2024 6:40 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:

> For now, I've made my mind,
> and even have started the "learning curve" if such a thing exists for
> qb64 :-)))

> That'll do fine for baby problems, which I'm going to continue posting
> to sci.physics as a blog.

Well, the good news is you do look like a baby code monkey.

On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 18:20:52 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 3/20/2024 12:23 AM, rbowman wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 22:55:03 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>
>>> To run it:
>>>
>>> 1) install Python
>>>
>>> 2) install PyQt 5
>>
>> I've been using PySide6.
>
> Work or play?

Play. Any work Python was ArcPy and I never had need for a GUI.

https://pro.arcgis.com/en/pro-app/3.1/arcpy/get-started/what-is-arcpy-.htm

If I were to use it I would have to use PySide6. That goes back to the
original days of Trolltech. We looked at QT as a possible replacement for
the Motif GUIs but it would have taken at least 6 Philadelphia lawyers to
unravel their commercial license.

https://www.pythonguis.com/faq/pyqt5-vs-pyside2/

That's a little dated since it talks about PySide2. There was a lag but
PySide6 is up to speed. The relevant portion, and this applies to other
areas:

"If you are planning to release your software itself under the GPL, or you
are developing software which will not be distributed, the GPL requirement
of PyQt5 is unlikely to be an issue. However, if you plan to distribute
your software without distributing the source you will either need to
purchase a commercial license from Riverbank for PyQt5 or use PySide2.

The LGPL license does not require you to share the source code of your own
applications, even if they are bundled with PySide2. You only need to
ensure that the source code covered by the LGPL is made available,
including modifications you have made to it, if any. In normal use there
will not be any modifications and the standard distributions of PySide2/
Qt5 source code will already cover this for you."

GPL is the kiss of death for anyone developing proprietary software.
Stallman's licensing requires not 6 but 12 Philadelphia lawyers. I've said
it before but if professional programmers don't use it, they are not going
to find bugs that they will report back upstream.

On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 18:31:00 -0400, DFS wrote:

> After I learned enough python, I started working on the same problems
> with C. C executes 5x to 10x faster than Python, but requires 3x to 5x
> the amt of time and code. Note: you will NEVER recoup the extra C
> development time with savings in program execution time.

To quote Kenny Rodgers (Don Schiltz actually) you've got to know when to
hold them and when to fold them. A common mistake is worrying too much
about optimization early in the development cycle.

While I agree on the volume as measured by lines of code I'm not sure
about the time, particularly when you have an established codebase.

url = f" https://itunes.apple.com/search?term={term}
&media=music&limit={self.limit}"
response = requests.get(url).json()
list = []
for result in response["results"]:

does a lot in four lines. I'm looking at some C code using the OpenSSL
library to connect to a host/port, do a HTTPS transaction. and return the
result. There's a generous amout of error checking and handling and it's
84 lines rather than 1.

BUT. amd this is the big but, like whoever developed the Python requests
package I wrote the code a long time ago. It's in a file called http.c
strangely enough. Include the file and the 84 lines becomes

static char* https_send(char* msg);

As the static implies that function isn't directly called. There are other
entry points that build the HTTP header as required, figure out the
ContentLength and so forth,

The real time spent is figuring out what you want to do or to put it in
geek speak, developing the necessary algorithms and data structures.

I've been reading

https://www.amazon.com/Python-Tricks-Buffet-Awesome-Features/dp/1775093301

The sniipets aren't long but he goes into list comprehension, decorators,
some of the more obscure dunders, setting up classes with class variables,
instance variables, and static functions using decorators, why you might
want to do so, and how they work.

The section I'm on now is Common Data Structures in Python. Every Python
programmer knows what a list is, but how does it work? Is it a linked
list, and array, or what? Again in C linked lists of structs are common.
They don't have the nice neat look of Python but I can build single or
doubly linked lists, insert or remove elements, set up sorting and so
forth in my sleep. If there isn't boilerplate I can cut'n'paste' the time
to implement one depends on my typing speed. The same can be said for C++
containers; if you know how to do it in C, it comes down to typing.

On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 11:31:34 +0000, Nuxxie wrote:

> Therefore, in order to program one must first learn about the machine.
> One must first learn about logic gates, Boolean algebra, etc. Then one
> must learn machine language instructions.

In order to drive a car you must first know how to tune a Quadrajet after
you've installed a high lift Iskendarian camshaft and Edelbrock headers.