Something I didn’t hear about, which happened earlier last year
<https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/unix-pioneer-ken-thompson-announces-hes-switching-from-mac-to-linux.88451/>.
Ken Thompson, one of the original Bell Labs crew that created Unix, now
80 years old, was asked what OS he uses, and he replied:

I have, for most of my life — because I was sort of born into it —
run Apple.

Now recently, meaning within the last five years, I've become more
and more depressed, and what Apple is doing to something that
should allow you to work is just atrocious. But they are taking a
lot of space and time to do it, so it's okay.

And I have come, within the last month or two, to say, even though
I've invested, you know, a zillion years in Apple — I'm throwing
it away. And I'm going to Linux. To Raspbian in particular.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

>Something I didn’t hear about, which happened earlier last year
><https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/unix-pioneer-ken-thompson-announces-hes-switching-from-mac-to-linux.88451/>.
>Ken Thompson, one of the original Bell Labs crew that created Unix, now
>80 years old, was asked what OS he uses, and he replied:
>
> I have, for most of my life — because I was sort of born into it —
> run Apple.
>
> Now recently, meaning within the last five years, I've become more
> and more depressed, and what Apple is doing to something that
> should allow you to work is just atrocious. But they are taking a
> lot of space and time to do it, so it's okay.
>
> And I have come, within the last month or two, to say, even though
> I've invested, you know, a zillion years in Apple — I'm throwing
> it away. And I'm going to Linux. To Raspbian in particular.

Basically, Apple can stop pretending to be a cool Unix flavor, its
Unix support blows, its own apps are a dumpster fire, it's actually
materially worse than Winblows itself. Because it reminds one that
Microsoft has created a proprietary platform, as bloated as is even
*feasible*, but which is no different at its core than Unix. There's
a mastery of the hardware with their default OS, but Linux is a better
value on PC hardware.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Sun, 25 Feb 2024 00:07:07 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <ure0bb$1f6cu$1@dont-email.me>:

> Something I didn’t hear about, which happened earlier last year
> <https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/unix-pioneer-ken-thompson-announces-
hes-switching-from-mac-to-linux.88451/>.
> Ken Thompson, one of the original Bell Labs crew that created Unix, now
> 80 years old, was asked what OS he uses, and he replied:
>
> I have, for most of my life — because I was sort of born into it —
> run Apple.
>
> Now recently, meaning within the last five years, I've become more
> and more depressed, and what Apple is doing to something that should
> allow you to work is just atrocious. But they are taking a lot of
> space and time to do it, so it's okay.
>
> And I have come, within the last month or two, to say, even though
> I've invested, you know, a zillion years in Apple — I'm throwing it
> away. And I'm going to Linux. To Raspbian in particular.

Braben preserve us!

I wonder if he stuck with it.

--
-v

On 2/24/2024 6:07 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> Something I didn’t hear about, which happened earlier last year
> <https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/unix-pioneer-ken-thompson-announces-hes-switching-from-mac-to-linux.88451/>.
> Ken Thompson, one of the original Bell Labs crew that created Unix, now
> 80 years old, was asked what OS he uses, and he replied:
>
> I have, for most of my life — because I was sort of born into it —
> run Apple.
>
> Now recently, meaning within the last five years, I've become more
> and more depressed, and what Apple is doing to something that
> should allow you to work is just atrocious. But they are taking a
> lot of space and time to do it, so it's okay.
>
> And I have come, within the last month or two, to say, even though
> I've invested, you know, a zillion years in Apple — I'm throwing
> it away. And I'm going to Linux. To Raspbian in particular.

I wished he'd say what he was doing, not what OS he was using.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 19:18:06 -0500, Joel wrote:

> Basically, Apple can stop pretending to be a cool Unix flavor ...

Remember that “Unix” is a trademark, and MacOS is just about the last
platform left standing that has legally licensed the trademark.

But when people say “Unix”, they don’t think of the trademark, they think
of the way an OS is traditionally supposed to work. And systems like Linux
and the BSDs do a better job of conforming to that paradigm than Apple’s
platform can do.

To avoid the trademark issue, we can refer to this paradigm as “*nix”.

On 2024-02-25, Physfitfreak <Physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/24/2024 6:07 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> Something I didn’t hear about, which happened earlier last year
>> <https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/unix-pioneer-ken-thompson-announces-hes-switching-from-mac-to-linux.88451/>.
>> Ken Thompson, one of the original Bell Labs crew that created Unix, now
>> 80 years old, was asked what OS he uses, and he replied:
>>
>> I have, for most of my life — because I was sort of born into it —
>> run Apple.
>>
>> Now recently, meaning within the last five years, I've become more
>> and more depressed, and what Apple is doing to something that
>> should allow you to work is just atrocious. But they are taking a
>> lot of space and time to do it, so it's okay.
>>
>> And I have come, within the last month or two, to say, even though
>> I've invested, you know, a zillion years in Apple — I'm throwing
>> it away. And I'm going to Linux. To Raspbian in particular.
>
>
> I wished he'd say what he was doing, not what OS he was using.

To be fair, did they say they were going to be developing for it?
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Something I didn’t hear about, which happened earlier last year
>
> <https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/unix-pioneer-ken-thompson-announces-hes-switching-from-mac-to-linux.88451/>.
>
> Ken Thompson, one of the original Bell Labs crew that created Unix, now
> 80 years old, was asked what OS he uses, and he replied:
>
> I have, for most of my life — because I was sort of born into it —
> run Apple.
>
> Now recently, meaning within the last five years, I've become more
> and more depressed, and what Apple is doing to something that
> should allow you to work is just atrocious. But they are taking a
> lot of space and time to do it, so it's okay.
>
> And I have come, within the last month or two, to say, even though
> I've invested, you know, a zillion years in Apple — I'm throwing
> it away. And I'm going to Linux. To Raspbian in particular.

The follow-on bitching is fun to read.

And I did not know about the Apple M1 (been living in a cave, I guess).

--
October. This is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks
in. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May, March,
June, December, August, and February.
-- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar"

Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> Something I didn’t hear about, which happened earlier last year
>>
>> <https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/unix-pioneer-ken-thompson-announces-hes-switching-from-mac-to-linux.88451/>.
>>
>> Ken Thompson, one of the original Bell Labs crew that created Unix, now
>> 80 years old, was asked what OS he uses, and he replied:
>>
>> I have, for most of my life — because I was sort of born into it —
>> run Apple.
>>
>> Now recently, meaning within the last five years, I've become more
>> and more depressed, and what Apple is doing to something that
>> should allow you to work is just atrocious. But they are taking a
>> lot of space and time to do it, so it's okay.
>>
>> And I have come, within the last month or two, to say, even though
>> I've invested, you know, a zillion years in Apple — I'm throwing
>> it away. And I'm going to Linux. To Raspbian in particular.
>
> The follow-on bitching is fun to read.
>
> And I did not know about the Apple M1 (been living in a cave, I guess).
>

M1 was released back in 2020, and Apple’s up to the M3 chip already. I’ve
not paid much attention to how many variants on it, but I assume probably
similar to what they’ve done with the M1 & M2, including the Pro/Max/Ultra
architecture, where they can double them up to build some monsters.

-hh

On Wed, 28 Feb 2024 21:21:52 -0500, -hh wrote:

> probably similar to what they’ve done with the M1 & M2, including the
> Pro/Max/Ultra architecture, where they can double them up to build some
> monsters.

Unfortunately, not upgradeable ones.

Basically, all Apple’s desktop machines now are just glorified laptops.

On 2024-02-29 12:44 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2024 21:21:52 -0500, -hh wrote:
>
>> probably similar to what they’ve done with the M1 & M2, including the
>> Pro/Max/Ultra architecture, where they can double them up to build some
>> monsters.
>
> Unfortunately, not upgradeable ones.
>
> Basically, all Apple’s desktop machines now are just glorified laptops.

The lack of upgradability is definitely a problem for me. However, some
of the features Apple provides for its users are so far ahead of what's
being offered by Windows and Linux that it's hard not to consider buying
their hardware anyway. Just yesterday, I misplaced my AirPods Pro. When
the power went out because of strong winds, I felt like listening to
something without bothering anyone else but didn't have them on hand.
Using the _stellar_ location features on the iPhone, I first found out
that the AirPods Pro were definitely in my house and its sensor helped
to pinpoint exactly where they were. I'm now looking at getting AirTags
for my car keys, wallet and suitcases in case something similar happens.

If anything, I'm upset that I've invested so heavily in movies and games
on the Windows side because I would very happily move over to Apple only
at this point.

--
RabidPedagog

On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 07:43:02 -0500, RabidPedagog wrote:

> I'm now looking at getting AirTags
> for my car keys, wallet and suitcases in case something similar happens.

https://hackaday.com/tag/apple-airtag/

Happy hacking!

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote at 18:26 this Thursday (GMT):
> On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 07:43:02 -0500, RabidPedagog wrote:
>
>> I'm now looking at getting AirTags
>> for my car keys, wallet and suitcases in case something similar happens.
>
> https://hackaday.com/tag/apple-airtag/
>
> Happy hacking!

Neat, I may try one of these.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2/29/24 12:44 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:> On Wed, 28 Feb 2024
21:21:52 -0500, -hh wrote:
>
>> probably similar to what they’ve done with the M1 & M2, including the
>> Pro/Max/Ultra architecture, where they can double them up to build some
>> monsters.
>
> Unfortunately, not upgradeable ones.
True, one can't do brain salad surgery and replace CPUs, but for most
folk, that sort of DIY work died out after the 1990s, or 25+ years ago.

And the trade-off of this are systems which because of their much higher
degree of SoC integration can kick ass on things like how much data they
can internally push around.

Case in point, Apple's base M1 chip, it has 66.67GB/s memory bandwidth,
which increases to 200GB/s bandwidth and to 400GB/s bandwidth on the M1
Pro and M1 Max chips respectively.

Looking around quickly (lazy) for 'desktop' CPUs, I found that the Intel
Core i9-13900K has a max memory bandwidth is 89.6GB/s when using DDR5
5600MHz memory. That's nice that it beats Apple's slowest M1, but the
M1 is IIRC discontinued and replaced with the M2, which is 100GB/sec,
plus we'll need to go find specs for the M3 as well to fully geek out.

> Basically, all Apple’s desktop machines now are just glorified laptops.
Where said 'glorified laptops' are posting pretty damn good performance
numbers. Of course, Intel PC laptops also became 'good enough' desktop
replacements over a decade ago for the general use case, which is why
laptops outsell desktops in the USA by roughly 4:1

<https://www.statista.com/statistics/670172/united-states-installed-base-desktops-laptops-tablets/>

-hh

On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 16:06:29 -0500, -hh wrote:

> On 2/29/24 12:44 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:> On Wed, 28 Feb 2024
>>
>> 21:21:52 -0500, -hh wrote:
>>
>>> probably similar to what they’ve done with the M1 & M2, including
>>> the Pro/Max/Ultra architecture, where they can double them up to
>>> build some monsters.
>>
>> Unfortunately, not upgradeable ones.
>
> True, one can't do brain salad surgery and replace CPUs...

But you expect to be able to upgrade things like RAM, or stick in a new
graphics card, at least on a desktop machine.

> And the trade-off of this are systems which because of their much higher
> degree of SoC integration can kick ass on things like how much data they
> can internally push around.

Yes, we know all that. But there is still a need for workstation-class
machines that are adaptable to a range of workloads, like the old Mac Pro.
Unfortunately Apple has effectively given up on that market.

On 2/29/2024 7:43 AM, RabidPedagog wrote:

> Using the _stellar_ location features on the iPhone, I first found out
> that the AirPods Pro were definitely in my house and its sensor helped
> to pinpoint exactly where they were.

My wife dropped her iPhone in a Publix parking lot, or left it on top of
the car before driving away, and we were 10 minutes away when she
realized her phone was missing.

Did the "Find my IPhone" thing and it showed the device was in the grass
median of a big road we went down, just a few blocks from the Publix.
The graphic/map was very specific about where it was in the median, and
showed nearby businesses and a big church. We parked in the church
driveway, about 50 yards away from where it said the phone was, and I
went up and down the median twice, and suddenly spotted her phone laying
there in the grass, virtually exactly where the map showed! Ho Lee Fuk!
What a relief.

We still don't know if someone picked it up from the parking lot and
discarded it after realizing they couldn't hack into it, or if it
finally slid off the top of the car, hit the road and bounced up onto
the grass median.

Either way, it's a great feature, well implemented.

On 2024-02-29 1:26 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 07:43:02 -0500, RabidPedagog wrote:
>
>> I'm now looking at getting AirTags
>> for my car keys, wallet and suitcases in case something similar happens.
>
> https://hackaday.com/tag/apple-airtag/
>
> Happy hacking!

In the end, just about everything can be hacked. I've gotten to a point
where I refuse to stop myself from having a convenience because some
asshole somewhere might ruin it for me.

--
RabidPedagog
Catholic paleoconservative

On 2/29/2024 7:43 AM, RabidPedagog wrote:

> Using the _stellar_ location features on the iPhone, I first found out
> that the AirPods Pro were definitely in my house and its sensor helped
> to pinpoint exactly where they were.

My wife dropped her iPhone in a Publix parking lot, or left it on top of
the car before driving away, and we were 10 minutes away when she
realized her phone was missing.

Did the "Find my IPhone" thing and it showed the device was in the grass
median of a big road we went down, just a few blocks from the Publix.
The graphic/map was very specific about where it was in the median, and
showed nearby businesses and a big church. We parked in the church
driveway, about 50 yards away from where it said the phone was, and I
went up and down the median twice, and suddenly spotted her phone laying
there in the grass, virtually exactly where the map showed! Ho Lee Fuk!
What a relief.

We still don't know if someone picked it up from the parking lot and
discarded it after realizing they couldn't hack into it, or if it
finally slid off the top of the car, hit the road and bounced up onto
the grass median.

Either way, it's a great feature, well implemented.

On 2024-02-29 4:35 p.m., DFS wrote:
> On 2/29/2024 7:43 AM, RabidPedagog wrote:
>
>> Using the _stellar_ location features on the iPhone, I first found out
>> that the AirPods Pro were definitely in my house and its sensor helped
>> to pinpoint exactly where they were.
>
>
> My wife dropped her iPhone in a Publix parking lot, or left it on top of
> the car before driving away, and we were 10 minutes away when she
> realized her phone was missing.
>
> Did the "Find my IPhone" thing and it showed the device was in the grass
> median of a big road we went down, just a few blocks from the Publix.
> The graphic/map was very specific about where it was in the median, and
> showed nearby businesses and a big church.  We parked in the church
> driveway, about 50 yards away from where it said the phone was, and I
> went up and down the median twice, and suddenly spotted her phone laying
> there in the grass, virtually exactly where the map showed!  Ho Lee Fuk!
>  What a relief.
>
> We still don't know if someone picked it up from the parking lot and
> discarded it after realizing they couldn't hack into it, or if it
> finally slid off the top of the car, hit the road and bounced up onto
> the grass median.
>
> Either way, it's a great feature, well implemented.

That's what I've noticed in using Apple's software: it's a bunch of
features that are all well implemented. Most people don't even realize
that they're there until they absolutely need them and once they do,
they're overjoyed that a company helped them out so effortlessly. It's
going to be _very_ difficult to stay in the PC camp despite the fact
that I invested so much into Windows-exclusive software and media.

--
RabidPedagog
Catholic paleoconservative

DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>On 2/29/2024 7:43 AM, RabidPedagog wrote:
>
>> Using the _stellar_ location features on the iPhone, I first found out
>> that the AirPods Pro were definitely in my house and its sensor helped
>> to pinpoint exactly where they were.
>
>My wife dropped her iPhone in a Publix parking lot, or left it on top of
>the car before driving away, and we were 10 minutes away when she
>realized her phone was missing.
>
>Did the "Find my IPhone" thing and it showed the device was in the grass
>median of a big road we went down, just a few blocks from the Publix.
>The graphic/map was very specific about where it was in the median, and
>showed nearby businesses and a big church. We parked in the church
>driveway, about 50 yards away from where it said the phone was, and I
>went up and down the median twice, and suddenly spotted her phone laying
>there in the grass, virtually exactly where the map showed! Ho Lee Fuk!
> What a relief.
>
>We still don't know if someone picked it up from the parking lot and
>discarded it after realizing they couldn't hack into it, or if it
>finally slid off the top of the car, hit the road and bounced up onto
>the grass median.
>
>Either way, it's a great feature, well implemented.

That's badass, admittedly. I hate the iPhone compared to Samsung
devices, but that's a great thing that you could pinpoint such a
random place, to find the lost device.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 16:06:29 -0500, -hh wrote:
>
>> On 2/29/24 12:44 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:> On Wed, 28 Feb 2024
>>>
>>> 21:21:52 -0500, -hh wrote:
>>>
>>>> probably similar to what they’ve done with the M1 & M2, including
>>>> the Pro/Max/Ultra architecture, where they can double them up to
>>>> build some monsters.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, not upgradeable ones.
>>
>> True, one can't do brain salad surgery and replace CPUs...

+1 for the "Brain Salad Surgery" reference.

--
Small things make base men proud.
-- William Shakespeare, "Henry VI"

On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 16:06:29 -0500, -hh wrote:

> True, one can't do brain salad surgery and replace CPUs, but for most
> folk, that sort of DIY work died out after the 1990s, or 25+ years ago.

Yeah, well it was a couple of weeks ago when I slapped a core i5 processor
in my Dell box to replace the original Pentium. I also added a couple of
sticks of DDR3 8GB RAM and a Crucial SATA SSD.

The hardest part was getting those damn tiny screws started to mount the
SSD in the 3.5 adapter.

On Feb 29, 2024 at 6:07:28 PM EST, "Chris Ahlstrom" <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 16:06:29 -0500, -hh wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/29/24 12:44 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:> On Wed, 28 Feb 2024
>>>>
>>>> 21:21:52 -0500, -hh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> probably similar to what they’ve done with the M1 & M2, including
>>>>> the Pro/Max/Ultra architecture, where they can double them up to
>>>>> build some monsters.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, not upgradeable ones.
>>>
>>> True, one can't do brain salad surgery and replace CPUs...
>
> +1 for the "Brain Salad Surgery" reference.

Welcome back my friends, to the show that never ends...

On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 16:35:55 -0500, DFS wrote:

> Either way, it's a great feature, well implemented.

But not really a recommendation for buying a macOS machine, is it?

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 16:35:55 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> Either way, it's a great [iPhone] feature, well implemented.
>
>But not really a recommendation for buying a macOS machine, is it?

Fuck no, I can understand using an Apple phone, if one is a weirdo who
actually thinks it's intuitive somehow, but boycott Apple's full-
fledged computers, they're just overpriced and have a garbage software
platform. I like the "silicon" itself, but not from them, I'll move
to ARM when that's the standard for real OSes, when I can replace this
machine with such a machine, and I have the money and inclination, in
the meantime Intel still works. Mother fuck Apple's scheme to
bankrupt people.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Feb 29, 2024 at 8:53:45 PM EST, "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid>
wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 16:35:55 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> Either way, it's a great feature, well implemented.
>
> But not really a recommendation for buying a macOS machine, is it?

What makes you think you need a Mac for this? Another iPhone is all you need.
Do you think he was driving around with a Mac in his car?