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computers / comp.os.linux.advocacy / Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

SubjectAuthor
* Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsDFS
+- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsDiego Garcia
+* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
|+- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
|`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsChris Ahlstrom
| +* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| |`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsChris Ahlstrom
| | `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| |  `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsChris Ahlstrom
| |   +- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| |   `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionschrisv
| |    `- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsFarley Flud
| `- Re: No output, we can't see any results.Chris Ahlstrom
+* Re: Random numbers in a range.DFS
|+- Re: You don't need "strftime()".Physfitfreak
|`* Re: You don't need "strftime()".vallor
| `* GNU Indent on Linux (was: Re: You don't need "strftime()".)vallor
|  `- Re: Excessive whitespace/comments is a big, red flag.vallor
+- Re: Random numbers in a range.DFS
+* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsFarley Flud
|+* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionscandycanearter07
||+- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions%
||`- Re: No one is doing: "Rand%MaxRand" (modulo).candycanearter07
|+* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
||`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsFarley Flud
|| `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
||  +- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsFarley Flud
||  `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsStéphane CARPENTIER
||   `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
||    `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsStéphane CARPENTIER
||     `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
||      `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsStéphane CARPENTIER
||       `- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
|`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsDFS
| +* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsLord Master
| |`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsDFS
| | +* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsLord Master
| | |+* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsDFS
| | ||+* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsLord Master
| | |||`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsDFS
| | ||| +* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsFarley Flud
| | ||| |`- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsDFS
| | ||| `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsDFS
| | |||  `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsFarley Flud
| | |||   `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |||    `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsRabidPedagog
| | |||     `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |||      +* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsFarley Flud
| | |||      |+- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |||      |`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsDFS
| | |||      | +- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |||      | +- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsRabidPedagog
| | |||      | `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsFarley Flud
| | |||      |  +* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsDFS
| | |||      |  |`- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |||      |  `- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |||      `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsRabidPedagog
| | |||       +* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |||       |`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsRabidPedagog
| | |||       | `- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |||       `- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsRonB
| | ||`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | || `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsRonB
| | ||  `- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | | `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsFarley Flud
| | |  +* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsChris Ahlstrom
| | |  |+- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsLord Master
| | |  |`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |  | `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsChris Ahlstrom
| | |  |  `- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsFarley Flud
| | |  +* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionscandycanearter07
| | |  |`- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |  `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |   `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionscandycanearter07
| | |    `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |     `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionscandycanearter07
| | |      `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |       `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionscandycanearter07
| | |        +* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |        |+* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsFarley Flud
| | |        ||+* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |        |||`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsFarley Flud
| | |        ||| `- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |        ||+- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |        ||`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |        || +* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsFarley Flud
| | |        || |`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |        || | +* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsFarley Flud
| | |        || | |+- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsDFS
| | |        || | |+* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |        || | ||+* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsrbowman
| | |        || | |||`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |        || | ||| +- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsrbowman
| | |        || | ||| `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsStéphane CARPENTIER
| | |        || | |||  `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |        || | |||   `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsrbowman
| | |        || | |||    `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |        || | |||     `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsStéphane CARPENTIER
| | |        || | |||      +- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionschrisv
| | |        || | |||      `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |        || | ||`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsFarley Flud
| | |        || | |`- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| | |        || | `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsFarley Flud
| | |        || `- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsrbowman
| | |        |`* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionscandycanearter07
| | |        `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsrbowman
| | `- Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsPhysfitfreak
| `* Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributionsLord Master
`* Re: The Answer, Of Course, Is... (was: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributTyrone

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Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

<5x1eN.20184$p%Mb.1266@fx15.iad>

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Subject: Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions
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 by: DFS - Tue, 12 Dec 2023 18:21 UTC

On 12/12/2023 8:57 AM, Lord Master wrote:
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> $ gcc -Wall speedtest_random_dates.c -o speeddates -lbsd
>>
>
> OMFG! It's hard to believe that anybody could fuck this up so
> fucking much!
>
> Where the hell did that "-lbsd" shit come from?
>
> Libbsd is NOT needed! Total idiot!

If I don't link libbsd-dev, it won't compile:

Feeb_rand_dates.c: In function ‘main’:
Feeb_rand_dates.c:64:33: warning: implicit declaration of function
‘arc4random_uniform’ [-Wimplicit-function-declaration]
64 | mjd = ((time_t)(arc4random_uniform(365*yrs*2))
- (time_t)(365*yrs)) * (time_t)86400;
| ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
/usr/bin/ld: /tmp/ccopYmAb.o: in function `main':
Feeb_rand_dates.c:(.text+0x1ed): undefined reference to `arc4random_uniform'
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status

If I do link it, I just get the warning and it does compile and runs
cleanly.

>> 2000000 DFS dates generated in 0.25 seconds
>> 2000000 Feeb dates generated in 1.72 seconds
>> done
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
> This is also fucked up to high heaven.
>
> The arc4random_uniform() requires system entropy in order to function.
> On that piece-of-shit Microslop/Ubuntu set-up the entropy must be FUBAR
> along with everything else.

Must it?

It's a regular old Linux environment, with a full Linux kernel.

Linux DESKTOP-MJUDRC5 5.15.133.1-microsoft-standard-WSL2 #1 SMP Thu Oct
5 21:02:42 UTC 2023 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

$ cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/poolsize
256

$ cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail
256

> You program like a fucking dress maker.

Someone has to make your dresses. And somebody has to test your shit-code.

> Furthermore, stay away from my fantastic, inimitable code. I don't want
> a demented imbecile using even small parts of it.

You don't want your borked programming exposed.

Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

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Subject: Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions
From: lordiemassa@gmail.com (Lord Master)
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 by: Lord Master - Tue, 12 Dec 2023 18:58 UTC

On Tuesday, December 12, 2023 at 1:21:58 PM UTC-5, DFS wrote:
> >
> > Libbsd is NOT needed! Total idiot!
> If I don't link libbsd-dev, it won't compile:
>

Then just add:

#include <stdlib.h>

Now don't bother me. I hate having to babysit totally incompetent idiots
that have the atrocious sense of running GNU/Linux on Microslop.

>
> $ cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/poolsize
> 256
>
> $ cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail
> 256
>

Holy moley! On a real GNU/Linux system the pool would use the Intel
rdrand to increase entropy blazingly fast.

In that case, my wonderful and fantastic code would be done in a miilisecond.

Re: A year is not 365 days.

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Subject: Re: A year is not 365 days.
From: lordiemassa@gmail.com (Lord Master)
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 by: Lord Master - Tue, 12 Dec 2023 19:12 UTC

On Tuesday, December 12, 2023 at 1:56:35 PM UTC-5, Relf wrote:

>
> A year is not 365 days.
>

And your fucking brain is not even 365 brain cells.

Butt out and drop dead.

Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

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From: joelcrump@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions
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 by: Joel - Tue, 12 Dec 2023 19:13 UTC

Lord Master <lordiemassa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Microslop

I find it funny that a guy resorting to Google Groups for some
unexplained reason is so quick to imply that Microsoft doesn't have
high standards for their code, they actually do, with specific
exceptions in the past (including the 2019-2020 Win10 era, when I was
wisely not using the POS), it's just not a platform to stay with
upgrades on, whereas Linux is. Windows 13 would outgrow the machine I
have now, I'd be stuck with 12. It's just crapware, from my point of
view, Linux will be with me till the end of the age.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Re: No output, we can't see any results.

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From: OFeem1987@teleworm.us (Chris Ahlstrom)
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Subject: Re: No output, we can't see any results.
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 by: Chris Ahlstrom - Tue, 12 Dec 2023 20:04 UTC

Relf wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Chris_Ahlstrom:
>> int generate ( int range ) { int rnd = generate();
>> long result = 2 * range * long(rnd) / long(s_upper_limit);
>> return int(result) - range; }
>>
>> Hasn't had any heavy testing, though.
>> rand() is good enough for light randomizing.
>
> No output, we can't see any results.

Not my problem.

--
Kindness is a language which the deaf can hear and the blind can read.
-- Mark Twain

Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

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From: OFeem1987@teleworm.us (Chris Ahlstrom)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions
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 by: Chris Ahlstrom - Tue, 12 Dec 2023 20:09 UTC

Physfitfreak wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 12/11/2023 7:12 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> Physfitfreak wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> On 12/10/2023 7:33 AM, DFS wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Generated 2M random dates via this code, compiled with:
>>>> gcc version 11.4.0 (Ubuntu 11.4.0-1ubuntu1~22.04)
>>>>
>>>> . . .
>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>
>>>> What do you use to get random numbers in a range?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Whatever way you choose, plot the results in 3D. If they don't spread
>>> all over, it's not a good random number generator.
>>>
>>> Most of the generators are bad :)
>>
>> Check out C++:
>>
>> static const int s_upper_limit = std::numeric_limits<int>::max();
>> std::random_device m_rd; /* seed source for random number engine */
>> std::mt19937 m_mtwister; /* mersenne_twister_engine, maybe seeded */
>> std::uniform_int_distribution<int> m_distribution;
>>
>> Hasn't had any heavy testing, though. The primitive linear congruential
>> function rand() is good enough for light randomizing.
>
> Show me the 3D distribution of a few thousand output numbers and I'd be
> able to evaluate it. You would too :)

Nah, I already know it has an error. One of these days I will fix it but for
now it works well enough for the basic purposes of my app (jittering MIDI
time-stamps and note amplitudes).

My main point here is that the C++ standard supports a hella randomization
options.

--
It is often the case that the man who can't tell a lie thinks he is the best
judge of one.
-- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar"

Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

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 by: RabidPedagog - Tue, 12 Dec 2023 22:09 UTC

On 12/12/23 14:13, Joel wrote:
> Lord Master <lordiemassa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Microslop
>
>
> I find it funny that a guy resorting to Google Groups for some
> unexplained reason is so quick to imply that Microsoft doesn't have
> high standards for their code, they actually do, with specific
> exceptions in the past (including the 2019-2020 Win10 era, when I was
> wisely not using the POS), it's just not a platform to stay with
> upgrades on, whereas Linux is. Windows 13 would outgrow the machine I
> have now, I'd be stuck with 12. It's just crapware, from my point of
> view, Linux will be with me till the end of the age.

If your means are limited, there is nothing wrong with using Linux. I
often jump into Linux to check whether hardware is faulty or not. I
figure if it doesn't work in Windows, there are lots of reasons; if it
doesn't work in Linux, either it's either not supported or merely
defective.

Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

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 by: DFS - Tue, 12 Dec 2023 22:44 UTC

On 12/12/2023 12:49 PM, Lord Master wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 12, 2023 at 12:23:15 PM UTC-5, DFS wrote:
>
>>
>> The job is to generate random dates in any user-specified year range
>> begin..end, not start at 1970 and go +/- N years.
>>
>
> I don't give a flying fuck about "the job."

You should. You would've learned something.

> I gave an example of the correct
> way to do it that can be applied to any situation.

There is no "correct way".

> If given a year as a string, e.g. "2020", then simply convert this string value
> into the Unix time and go from there.
>
> I won't show you how to do this. Let's see if you can figure it out.

tut tut bozo: you have 5 simpleton challenges hanging over your dense
head before I EVER answer another code challenge from you.

> The GNU C Library contains comprehensive facilities for processing time data
> and these facilities automatically compensate for leap years, time zones, and
> even leap seconds.
>
> Only an idiot like you wastes effort by clumsily writing code to check for leap
> years. Ahahahahaha! What a chump!

How do you determine leap years in your code?

> You also quite likely NEVER heard of Julian Dates or Modified Julian Dates
> before I mentioned them in this thread.

Used Oracle's TO_DATE() and TO_CHAR() functions to work with J dates at
least 20 years ago.

More recently, using SQLite's julianday() and VBA's DatePart().

> Again, that just shows how far removed
> you actually are from the art of programming.

It just shows you making yet another stupid, incorrect assumption.

Re: A year is not 365 days.

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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: A year is not 365 days.
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 18:14:29 -0600
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 by: Physfitfreak - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 00:14 UTC

On 12/12/2023 12:56 PM, Relf wrote:
> const int StartYear = 2023, Years = 4 ;
> const float SecsPerDay = 24.*60*60 ;

Puh... Depends on whether you take it as a sidereal day or a solar day,
you Subject header changer moron.

Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 18:42:34 -0600
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 by: Physfitfreak - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 00:42 UTC

On 12/12/2023 2:35 AM, Farley Flud wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 18:46:17 -0600, Physfitfreak wrote:
>
>>
>> Talk and code don't matter. Show me a 3D distribution of numbers
>> generated by it (each three consecutive, making the coordinates of one
>> point), then something about quality of the generator can be seen. Use
>> at least a few thousand points.
>>
>
> That kind of test applies only to a sequence of random numbers.
> Exploring multi-dimensional distributions will indicate if there
> are patters within the sequence.
>
> The PRNG here, the arc4random_uniform(), produces a discrete
> uniform distribution of integers. The only test is that, for
> a very large sample size, each sample has equal frequency and
> the average and variance match that of a DUD:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_uniform_distribution
>
>

Wouldn't any pattern among the sequence suggest a departure from the
randomness of such numbers?

And again - right or wrong! - you get my vote only if you show me a
uniform distribution of dots in a 3D plot, created by that generator. I
won't buy anything else :)

If your 3D distribution show extra concentrations on any surface, on any
line, or around any point or points in that plot, then your generator
doesn't provide random enough numbers. It can quickly be modeled, and a
little software can use that model to predict your generator's results.

Then your missile is hit and destroyed before reaching its target :)

Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 18:44:37 -0600
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 by: Physfitfreak - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 00:44 UTC

On 12/12/2023 8:10 AM, DFS wrote:
> Get real.  You claim to be a "C Programmer Extraordinaire" and in real
> life you've gotten absolutely NOWHERE with C.  Or perl.  Or assembly.
>
> Lucky you have Access and VBA to muddle through with.

What an ill-informed nonsense to say. God I'm still discovering more
holes in this person's female brain space. Just what are you? Is that
what every Nazi was and is, or is it just you who're that dumb? ...

A more powerful programming language doesn't make a programmer a better
programmer.

I did anything I wanted, and did it perfectly well, using VBA. It's the
programmer that counts, not the language. VBA is just BASIC. Consider it
another flavor of "Simon's BASIC" :)

Nazis obey orders and shut up. So it must be your female brain that's so
talkative.

Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 18:51:24 -0600
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 by: Physfitfreak - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 00:51 UTC

On 12/12/2023 4:09 PM, RabidPedagog wrote:
> On 12/12/23 14:13, Joel wrote:
>> Lord Master <lordiemassa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Microslop
>>
>>
>> I find it funny that a guy resorting to Google Groups for some
>> unexplained reason is so quick to imply that Microsoft doesn't have
>> high standards for their code, they actually do, with specific
>> exceptions in the past (including the 2019-2020 Win10 era, when I was
>> wisely not using the POS), it's just not a platform to stay with
>> upgrades on, whereas Linux is.  Windows 13 would outgrow the machine I
>> have now, I'd be stuck with 12.  It's just crapware, from my point of
>> view, Linux will be with me till the end of the age.
>
> If your means are limited, there is nothing wrong with using Linux. I
> often jump into Linux to check whether hardware is faulty or not. I
> figure if it doesn't work in Windows, there are lots of reasons; if it
> doesn't work in Linux, either it's either not supported or merely
> defective.
>

But a few weeks back I had to test it on Windows to find out a device
was bad. Linux didn't give me a clue. It only had complicated the matters.

Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

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Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 18:52:39 -0600
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 by: Physfitfreak - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 00:52 UTC

On 12/12/2023 2:09 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Physfitfreak wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On 12/11/2023 7:12 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> Physfitfreak wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> On 12/10/2023 7:33 AM, DFS wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Generated 2M random dates via this code, compiled with:
>>>>> gcc version 11.4.0 (Ubuntu 11.4.0-1ubuntu1~22.04)
>>>>>
>>>>> . . .
>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you use to get random numbers in a range?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Whatever way you choose, plot the results in 3D. If they don't spread
>>>> all over, it's not a good random number generator.
>>>>
>>>> Most of the generators are bad :)
>>>
>>> Check out C++:
>>>
>>> static const int s_upper_limit = std::numeric_limits<int>::max();
>>> std::random_device m_rd; /* seed source for random number engine */
>>> std::mt19937 m_mtwister; /* mersenne_twister_engine, maybe seeded */
>>> std::uniform_int_distribution<int> m_distribution;
>>>
>>> Hasn't had any heavy testing, though. The primitive linear congruential
>>> function rand() is good enough for light randomizing.
>>
>> Show me the 3D distribution of a few thousand output numbers and I'd be
>> able to evaluate it. You would too :)
>
> Nah, I already know it has an error. One of these days I will fix it but for
> now it works well enough for the basic purposes of my app (jittering MIDI
> time-stamps and note amplitudes).
>
> My main point here is that the C++ standard supports a hella randomization
> options.
>

I haven't tried them, but I don't think any of them is perfect. Some
must be better and some worse. Also, the concept of "random number"
itself means different things in some of its applications under other
contexts. Everything discussed here so far pertains only one type of
random number generator that gives numbers equally probable to get
chosen from a set range.

Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

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Subject: Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions
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 by: RonB - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 04:57 UTC

On 2023-12-12, RabidPedagog <rabid@pedag.og> wrote:
> On 12/12/23 14:13, Joel wrote:
>> Lord Master <lordiemassa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Microslop
>>
>>
>> I find it funny that a guy resorting to Google Groups for some
>> unexplained reason is so quick to imply that Microsoft doesn't have
>> high standards for their code, they actually do, with specific
>> exceptions in the past (including the 2019-2020 Win10 era, when I was
>> wisely not using the POS), it's just not a platform to stay with
>> upgrades on, whereas Linux is. Windows 13 would outgrow the machine I
>> have now, I'd be stuck with 12. It's just crapware, from my point of
>> view, Linux will be with me till the end of the age.
>
> If your means are limited, there is nothing wrong with using Linux. I
> often jump into Linux to check whether hardware is faulty or not. I
> figure if it doesn't work in Windows, there are lots of reasons; if it
> doesn't work in Linux, either it's either not supported or merely
> defective.

If your means are NOT limited there is nothing wrong with Linux. Especially
if you don't play video games and aren't married to Microsoft Office.

--
"Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good."
-- Archbishop Charles J. Chaput

Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

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 by: RonB - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 05:04 UTC

On 2023-12-13, Physfitfreak <Physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12/12/2023 4:09 PM, RabidPedagog wrote:
>> On 12/12/23 14:13, Joel wrote:
>>> Lord Master <lordiemassa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Microslop
>>>
>>>
>>> I find it funny that a guy resorting to Google Groups for some
>>> unexplained reason is so quick to imply that Microsoft doesn't have
>>> high standards for their code, they actually do, with specific
>>> exceptions in the past (including the 2019-2020 Win10 era, when I was
>>> wisely not using the POS), it's just not a platform to stay with
>>> upgrades on, whereas Linux is.  Windows 13 would outgrow the machine I
>>> have now, I'd be stuck with 12.  It's just crapware, from my point of
>>> view, Linux will be with me till the end of the age.
>>
>> If your means are limited, there is nothing wrong with using Linux. I
>> often jump into Linux to check whether hardware is faulty or not. I
>> figure if it doesn't work in Windows, there are lots of reasons; if it
>> doesn't work in Linux, either it's either not supported or merely
>> defective.
>>
>
>
> But a few weeks back I had to test it on Windows to find out a device
> was bad. Linux didn't give me a clue. It only had complicated the matters.

Yeah, but you were plugging your monitor into the built-in Intel video port
and were trying to get the add-on (and defective) nVidia video card
installed. So installing drivers for a defective video card is not going to
work. Not even close to being a fault in Linux.

--
"Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good."
-- Archbishop Charles J. Chaput

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Subject: Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions
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 by: Farley Flud - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 09:10 UTC

On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 18:42:34 -0600, Physfitfreak wrote:

>
> And again - right or wrong! - you get my vote only if you show me a
> uniform distribution of dots in a 3D plot, created by that generator. I
> won't buy anything else :)
>

It passes the Dieharder tests:

https://webhome.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/General/dieharder.php

The Dieharder tests include a test that measures clustering
in up to 52 dimensions -- way above your 3D.

Try it yourself.

But such clustering does not always indicate a lack of
randomness. A truly random sequence of say, UTF-8 chars,
will eventually include all the works of William Shakespeare
as well as all the world's literature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

Thus, if you open a book of Shakespeare's plays you are
viewing part pf a random sequence.

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 by: Farley Flud - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 09:55 UTC

On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 13:21:54 -0500, DFS wrote:

>
> If I don't link libbsd-dev, it won't compile:
>

I found out the reason, but YOU had the problem and
YOU have found out yourself.

The arc4random() functions first appear in version
2.36 of the GNU C Library, which is over a year ago.

That piece-of-shit Ubuntu system of yours is obviously
using an older glibc.

With GNU/Linux, one has to keep up to date or else,
like you, one is going to be left behind.

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 by: Farley Flud - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:03 UTC

On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 17:44:49 -0500, DFS wrote:

>
>> You also quite likely NEVER heard of Julian Dates or Modified Julian Dates
>> before I mentioned them in this thread.
>
> Used Oracle's TO_DATE() and TO_CHAR() functions to work with J dates at
> least 20 years ago.
>
> More recently, using SQLite's julianday() and VBA's DatePart().
>

OMG! The fails just keep on coming!

Those functions refer the the Julian "Day," which is a number
from 1 - 365.

I am referring the the Julian "Date," which is something entirely
different:

https://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/JulianDate

Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

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Subject: Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions
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 by: Chris Ahlstrom - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 11:43 UTC

Physfitfreak wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 12/12/2023 2:09 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> Physfitfreak wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> On 12/11/2023 7:12 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>> Physfitfreak wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/10/2023 7:33 AM, DFS wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Generated 2M random dates via this code, compiled with:
>>>>>> gcc version 11.4.0 (Ubuntu 11.4.0-1ubuntu1~22.04)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> . . .
>>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you use to get random numbers in a range?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Whatever way you choose, plot the results in 3D. If they don't spread
>>>>> all over, it's not a good random number generator.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of the generators are bad :)
>>>>
>>>> Check out C++:
>>>>
>>>> static const int s_upper_limit = std::numeric_limits<int>::max();
>>>> std::random_device m_rd; /* seed source for random number engine */
>>>> std::mt19937 m_mtwister; /* mersenne_twister_engine, maybe seeded */
>>>> std::uniform_int_distribution<int> m_distribution;
>>>>
>>>> Hasn't had any heavy testing, though. The primitive linear congruential
>>>> function rand() is good enough for light randomizing.
>>>
>>> Show me the 3D distribution of a few thousand output numbers and I'd be
>>> able to evaluate it. You would too :)
>>
>> Nah, I already know it has an error. One of these days I will fix it but for
>> now it works well enough for the basic purposes of my app (jittering MIDI
>> time-stamps and note amplitudes).
>>
>> My main point here is that the C++ standard supports a hella randomization
>> options.
>
> I haven't tried them, but I don't think any of them is perfect. Some
> must be better and some worse. Also, the concept of "random number"
> itself means different things in some of its applications under other
> contexts. Everything discussed here so far pertains only one type of
> random number generator that gives numbers equally probable to get
> chosen from a set range.

Random numbers are too important to be left to chance.

https://cplusplus.com/reference/random/

Refers to almost 20 random distribution generators, such as Poisson and Cauchy.

The rub is using them correctly!

--
Try the Moo Shu Pork. It is especially good today.

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 by: Chris Ahlstrom - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 11:48 UTC

RabidPedagog wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 12/12/23 14:13, Joel wrote:
>> Lord Master <lordiemassa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Microslop
>>
>> I find it funny that a guy resorting to Google Groups for some
>> unexplained reason is so quick to imply that Microsoft doesn't have
>> high standards for their code, they actually do, with specific
>> exceptions in the past (including the 2019-2020 Win10 era, when I was
>> wisely not using the POS), it's just not a platform to stay with
>> upgrades on, whereas Linux is. Windows 13 would outgrow the machine I
>> have now, I'd be stuck with 12. It's just crapware, from my point of
>> view, Linux will be with me till the end of the age.
>
> If your means are limited, there is nothing wrong with using Linux.

If your means are not limited, there is nothing wrong with using Linux.
And frankly, I like the environtment a lot. Even at this late date,
Microsoft's flagship desktop OS still merits the name of "Windoze".

With Linux, I never feel the need to "click twice".

> I often jump into Linux to check whether hardware is faulty or not. I
> figure if it doesn't work in Windows, there are lots of reasons; if it
> doesn't work in Linux, either it's either not supported or merely
> defective.

Hmmm, maybe I should go to the thrift or pawn shop to get another
laptop for testing.

I have a desktop box in the attack, but the noise!!!

--
Q: What do you have when you have a lawyer buried up to his neck in sand?
A: Not enough sand.

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 by: RabidPedagog - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:33 UTC

On 12/12/23 23:57, RonB wrote:
> On 2023-12-12, RabidPedagog <rabid@pedag.og> wrote:
>> On 12/12/23 14:13, Joel wrote:
>>> Lord Master <lordiemassa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Microslop
>>>
>>>
>>> I find it funny that a guy resorting to Google Groups for some
>>> unexplained reason is so quick to imply that Microsoft doesn't have
>>> high standards for their code, they actually do, with specific
>>> exceptions in the past (including the 2019-2020 Win10 era, when I was
>>> wisely not using the POS), it's just not a platform to stay with
>>> upgrades on, whereas Linux is. Windows 13 would outgrow the machine I
>>> have now, I'd be stuck with 12. It's just crapware, from my point of
>>> view, Linux will be with me till the end of the age.
>>
>> If your means are limited, there is nothing wrong with using Linux. I
>> often jump into Linux to check whether hardware is faulty or not. I
>> figure if it doesn't work in Windows, there are lots of reasons; if it
>> doesn't work in Linux, either it's either not supported or merely
>> defective.
>
> If your means are NOT limited there is nothing wrong with Linux. Especially
> if you don't play video games and aren't married to Microsoft Office.

Well, I'm actually trying out the video games part as we speak. Since I
finally finished the Cyberpunk 2077 Phantom Liberty expansion (it turns
out I didn't need my save files after all), I have no attachment to
platforms like GOG in Windows. Also, since Macrium Reflect decided to
fuck up and claim that my computer needed to be repaired when I tried to
restore an image of my Windows 11 installation, I figured I'd just
install Ubuntu 23.10 and test it out a bit. Shockingly, this
distribution feels like it was custom made for my particular laptop. I
can't get a single game to play (Jedi Fallen Order), but it has
everything to do with the Electronic Arts launcher and nothing to do
with Linux. I'm trying out Tiny Tina's Wonderlands as we speak, and it's
running fine as are others I installed through Lutris. It gets a 62fps
with some stuttering, but it'll certainly perform better later on when I
optimize the settings.

Either way, I'll try once again to reload my Windows 11 image later on
but if it fails and claims that my computer needs repairs, I'll just
stick to this. I'm getting a little tired of the constant headaches.

--
@RabidPedagog

Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

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Subject: Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions
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 by: DFS - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:38 UTC

On 12/13/2023 5:03 AM, Farley Flud wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 17:44:49 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>>
>>> You also quite likely NEVER heard of Julian Dates or Modified Julian Dates
>>> before I mentioned them in this thread.
>>
>> Used Oracle's TO_DATE() and TO_CHAR() functions to work with J dates at
>> least 20 years ago.
>>
>> More recently, using SQLite's julianday() and VBA's DatePart().
>>
>
> OMG! The fails just keep on coming!
>
> Those functions refer the the Julian "Day," which is a number
> from 1 - 365.

That's the ordinal day, and it ranges from 1-366.

2 UUUUGGGGGE FAAAAIIIILLLLSSSSS!!!!!

RING THE BELL! KEEP RINGING IT UNTIL HE SHUTS THE FUCK UP!

> I am referring the the Julian "Date," which is something entirely
> different:
>
> https://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/JulianDate

"entirely different"? Are you sho'?

"The Julian date (JD) of any instant is the Julian day number plus the
fraction of a day since the preceding noon in Universal Time. Julian
dates are expressed as a Julian day number with a decimal fraction added."

The term Julian date may also refer, outside of astronomy, to the
day-of-year number (more properly, the ordinal date) in the Gregorian
calendar, especially in computer programming, the military and the food
industry,[10] or it may refer to dates in the Julian calendar.

ANOTHER FEEBLE FEEB FAIL!

RING! RING! RING! RING! RING! RING!

Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

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 by: RabidPedagog - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:38 UTC

On 12/13/23 06:48, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> RabidPedagog wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On 12/12/23 14:13, Joel wrote:
>>> Lord Master <lordiemassa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Microslop
>>>
>>> I find it funny that a guy resorting to Google Groups for some
>>> unexplained reason is so quick to imply that Microsoft doesn't have
>>> high standards for their code, they actually do, with specific
>>> exceptions in the past (including the 2019-2020 Win10 era, when I was
>>> wisely not using the POS), it's just not a platform to stay with
>>> upgrades on, whereas Linux is. Windows 13 would outgrow the machine I
>>> have now, I'd be stuck with 12. It's just crapware, from my point of
>>> view, Linux will be with me till the end of the age.
>>
>> If your means are limited, there is nothing wrong with using Linux.
>
> If your means are not limited, there is nothing wrong with using Linux.
> And frankly, I like the environtment a lot. Even at this late date,
> Microsoft's flagship desktop OS still merits the name of "Windoze".
>
> With Linux, I never feel the need to "click twice".

I will say this much: Ubuntu 23.10 looks a lot better than Windows 11
does and is a lot faster. Using it also allows me to ignore the constant
Windows-related security reports I read on BleepingComputer.com. It's
not perfect, but everything on this laptop works very well, including
standby and hibernation.

< snip >

--
@RabidPedagog

Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

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Subject: Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions
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 by: DFS - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:39 UTC

On 12/12/2023 1:58 PM, Lord Master wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 12, 2023 at 1:21:58 PM UTC-5, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>> Libbsd is NOT needed! Total idiot!
>> If I don't link libbsd-dev, it won't compile:
>>
>
> Then just add:
>
> #include <stdlib.h>

It was already included.

> Now don't bother me. I hate having to babysit totally incompetent idiots
> that have the atrocious sense of running GNU/Linux on Microslop.

"They concluded that Ubuntu WSL performance was around 94% the speed of
bare metal Ubuntu on the same system overall."

And the vast majority of what I do in Linux now is console code.

So I'm good.

>> $ cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/poolsize
>> 256
>>
>> $ cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail
>> 256
>>
>
> Holy moley! On a real GNU/Linux system the pool would use the Intel
> rdrand to increase entropy blazingly fast.

> In that case, my wonderful and fantastic code would be done
> in a miilisecond.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could write code like me to prove it?

============================================================================
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <time.h>

//settings
int dates = 2000000;
int beginYear = 1923;
int endYear = 2023;
int years = 100;

//program timing
double elapsedtime(clock_t start) {
return (clock() - (double)start)/CLOCKS_PER_SEC;
}

//DFS
//get random number from within range
int randNbr(int low, int high) {
return (low + rand() / (RAND_MAX / (high - low + 1) + 1));
}

//DFS
//build random date in format YYYY-MM-DD
//number of days in the month
int mdays[12]={31,28,31,30,31,30,31,31,30,31,30,31};
char *genRandDate(void) {
//get year, then random month, then random day from that month
int ryear = randNbr(beginYear, endYear);
int rmth = randNbr(1,12);
int rday = randNbr(1,mdays[rmth-1]);

//leap year calc - executes only if Feb is chosen
if(rmth == 2) {
if(((ryear%4==0) && (ryear%100!=0)) || (ryear%400==0)) {
rday = randNbr(1,29);
}
}

//store,format,return data
char *randDt = malloc(sizeof(char) * 11);
sprintf(randDt,"%d-%02d-%02d",ryear, rmth, rday);
randDt[10] = '\0';
return randDt;
}

int main(void) {

//Feeb
time_t mjd;
struct tm *local_time;
char rnd_date[20];
//timing-related
clock_t start;

//seed rng
srand(time(NULL));

//speed tests
printf("generating random dates...\n");
//DFS
start = clock();
for (int i=1; i<=dates; i++) {
genRandDate();
}
printf("%d DFS dates generated in %.2f seconds\n", dates,
elapsedtime(start));

//Feeb
start = clock();
for (int i=1; i<=dates; i++) {
mjd = ((time_t)(arc4random_uniform(365*years*2)) -
(time_t)(365*years)) * (time_t)86400;
local_time = localtime(&mjd);
strftime(rnd_date, sizeof(rnd_date), "%F", local_time);
}
printf("%d Feeb dates generated in %.2f seconds\n", dates,
elapsedtime(start));

printf("done\n");
return 0;
}

============================================================================

Multiply or divide whatever you claim by the "Feeb Blab Constant" of
296847 and you get the actual result.

Re: Ping Feeb: borked random number distributions

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 by: DFS - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:41 UTC

On 12/13/2023 4:55 AM, Farley Flud wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 13:21:54 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>>
>> If I don't link libbsd-dev, it won't compile:
>>
>
> I found out the reason, but YOU had the problem and
> YOU have found out yourself.
>
> The arc4random() functions first appear in version
> 2.36 of the GNU C Library, which is over a year ago.

A year ago?

arc4random() functions were in OpenBSD 2.0, by Oct 1996.

https://www.openbsd.org/plus20.html
"arc4-based random support in kernel"

Why is glibc 26 years behind?

Another GuhNoo FAIL.

> That piece-of-shit Ubuntu system of yours is obviously
> using an older glibc.

$ ldd --version
ldd (Ubuntu GLIBC 2.35-0ubuntu3.5) 2.35

> With GNU/Linux, one has to keep up to date or else,
> like you, one is going to be left behind.

Quit babbling. You still to this day use rand().


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