Hey comp.infosystems.gemini,

Does anyone know what's up with the mailing list on orbitalfox? The server
is using a self-signed certificate and puts a 404 page when clicked. The
last email I received from the mailing list is from the 28th of December
2021.

I was wondering why there is suddenly more activity with this newsgroup
and no activity on the mailing list, that's when I noticed the 404.

It's a good thing this newsgroup was created in time, otherwise the
community would not be able to organize this with the dead mailing list.

I'd appreciate any information on the mailing list issue though, is it
temporary or is it "dead" forever?

--
Leo

Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> wrote:
> I'd appreciate any information on the mailing list issue though, is it
> temporary or is it "dead" forever?

It's a hard disk failure, so most likele it won't be up again.
gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/~solderpunk/gemlog/gemini-mailing-list-down.gmi

You can browse the archive though.
gemini://transjovian.org/page/2022-01-01%20Gemini%20Mailing%20List%20Archive

jan Anja <cyber@sysrq.in> wrote:
> Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> wrote:
>> I'd appreciate any information on the mailing list issue though, is it
>> temporary or is it "dead" forever?
>
> It's a hard disk failure, so most likele it won't be up again.

Sounds like a bit of a win for proponents of the decentralised new
internet protocols.

[ducks and runs]

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 2022-01-14, Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
> Sounds like a bit of a win for proponents of the decentralised new
> internet protocols.

I mean Usenet is a decentralized protocol and that's why even when
servers go down, messages are still delivered. Mailing lists, the Web,
and Gemini are centralized so if the server is down, so goes the
content.

I did love the mailing list, but my argument in favor of Usenet is that
it's just slightly more convenient since the messages are organized on
the server, rather than having to manage all the mailing list e-mails
that come into your inbox. (For example, by filtering them into a
separate folder.) So Usenet is easy and decentralized...

Regarding orbitalfox.eu, I talk to orbifx often and it seems he's just
been slow to get services back up and running since the disk failure. He
was looking to axe anything that isn't useful, and so the list server
was one of those things he felt like getting rid of. That doesn't mean
the list server definitely won't ever come back, but don't count on it.
All other services are still down, even those that are planned to
return. As far as I know only his e-mail is working, so you can still
mail him at the username fox at his domain.

--
gemini://kwiecien.us/

On 1/15/22 05:43, meff wrote:
> Mailing lists, the Web,
> and Gemini are centralized so if the server is down, so goes the
> content.

With the mailing list the content doesn't go away, only the delivery
mechanism. The e-mails are still sitting in hundreds of people's
mailboxes somewhere. :)

--
gemini://kwiecien.us/

On 2022-01-15, Ben <benk@tilde.team> wrote:
> Regarding orbitalfox.eu, I talk to orbifx often and it seems he's just
> been slow to get services back up and running since the disk failure. He
> was looking to axe anything that isn't useful, and so the list server
> was one of those things he felt like getting rid of. That doesn't mean
> the list server definitely won't ever come back, but don't count on it.
> All other services are still down, even those that are planned to
> return. As far as I know only his e-mail is working, so you can still
> mail him at the username fox at his domain.
>

Yeah totally, I mean we all have our priorities. I think Usenet is
more appropriate for open discussion and a broader venue.

On 15/01/2022 08:20, Ben wrote:
> I did love the mailing list, but my argument in favor of Usenet is that
> it's just slightly more convenient since the messages are organized on
> the server, rather than having to manage all the mailing list e-mails
> that come into your inbox. (For example, by filtering them into a
> separate folder.) So Usenet is easy and decentralized...

It's only slightly more convenient for those who are familiar with it.
For everyone else it is less convenient than a mailing list.

I should note that ben @ tilde.chat offered on IRC to set up a mailing
list for Gemini:

> @ben the list is down?
> @ben i could make on on lists.tildeverse.org
> @ben one*
> adnano ben: you should probably talk to solderpunk about that
> @ben i don't see him here on irc
> @ben if he comes around tell him to ping me

bunburya <bunburya@tilde.club> wrote:
> On 15/01/2022 08:20, Ben wrote:
> > I did love the mailing list, but my argument in favor of Usenet is that
> > it's just slightly more convenient since the messages are organized on
> > the server, rather than having to manage all the mailing list e-mails
> > that come into your inbox. (For example, by filtering them into a
> > separate folder.) So Usenet is easy and decentralized...
>
> It's only slightly more convenient for those who are familiar with it.
> For everyone else it is less convenient than a mailing list.

You could also have a mailing list server to read messages from and
copy messages to the NNTP too, though. This way you can have both.
The same set of messages can be made available on multiple protocols
/ interfaces if that is useful to anyone.

--
Don't laugh at the moon when it is day time in France.

On 1/15/22 20:56, news@zzo38computer.org.invalid wrote:
> You could also have a mailing list server to read messages from and
> copy messages to the NNTP too, though. This way you can have both.

The mailing list actually had this with orbitalfox's own nntp server. I
think not many people used the latter, though.

--
gemini://kwiecien.us/

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 21:32:23 +0330
Ben <benk@tilde.team> wrote:

> The mailing list actually had this with orbitalfox's own nntp server.
> I think not many people used the latter, though.
>

The mailing list is also on news.gmane.io

On 2022-01-15, Ben <benk@tilde.team> wrote:
> The mailing list actually had this with orbitalfox's own nntp server. I
> think not many people used the latter, though.

The key here is this group (comp.infosystems.gemini) is peered through
general Usenet. A newsgroup is only as resilient as the newsservers
that carry it.

meff <email@example.com> wrote:
> On 2022-01-14, Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
>> Sounds like a bit of a win for proponents of the decentralised new
>> internet protocols.
>
> I mean Usenet is a decentralized protocol and that's why even when
> servers go down, messages are still delivered. Mailing lists, the Web,
> and Gemini are centralized so if the server is down, so goes the
> content.

Yes I was thinking more of IPFS, Dat, etc. Vs Gemini for hosting
website-like content, which theoretically avoids this age-old "our
community disappeared ever since [somebody]'s HDD failed and the
backup... [insert long sad story which doesn't sound quite
complete]" which so often happens on the web. But I don't deny that
there are plenty of valid reasons to prefer a centralised protocol
as well.

For discussion, I think Usenet is perfect, except you do get
weirdos like me who don't even regularly use Gemini poking around.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> writes:

> Does anyone know what's up with the mailing list on orbitalfox? The server
> is using a self-signed certificate and puts a 404 page when clicked. The
> last email I received from the mailing list is from the 28th of December
> 2021.

Orbitalfox's server had a hard drive failure, and it's taking a while
for him to get it back up and running. There are people who have full
archives of the list (me included), so it should not be too hard to get
it back up and running if that's what the people involved decide to do
(I was the mailing list administrator).

I like the fact that this newsgroup is taking up a lot of the "peanut
gallery discussion" role that was both good and bad about the mailing
list. There are a lot more places to do "official announcements" now, so
if the mailing list comes back, it may be in a less official capacity.

--
Jason McBrayer | “Strange is the night where black stars rise,
jmcbray@carcosa.net | and strange moons circle through the skies,
| but stranger still is lost Carcosa.”
| ― Robert W. Chambers,The King in Yellow