Hello,

I wonder does Ada community need yet another web site?

My idea is here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ada/comments/wx9zp1/yet_another_ada_web_site/

Maxim Reznik <reznikmm@gmail.com> writes:
> I wonder does Ada community need yet another web site?

Adahome.com is sort of like that, but it is run by some company and
hasn't been updated in forever. Maybe what you want is a wiki (like
forthfreak.net used to be), but you'd have to do a lot of work getting
it initially populated, before it became interesting enough to attract
more contributors. It's very easy to suggest work for other people to
do, but they all have their own projects already.

I don't have much trouble finding any information that I want about Ada,
e.g. with web searches. The challenge is in digesting and using the
information, not in finding it. I don't see the proposed new web site
as being much help. More helpful would be a systematic effort to
reproduce or at least supply Ada bindings for the main toolsets that
exist for other languages, to target popular microcontrollers, etc.

Maxim Reznik wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I wonder does Ada community need yet another web site?
>
> My idea is here:
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ada/comments/wx9zp1/yet_another_ada_web_site/

Maybe a web forum would be a good idea, because many people nowadays see
Usenet newgroups as an outdated thing. So the fact that the community
mostly relies on comp.lang.ada may turn them off.
(I Don't want to discuss wether Uset actually outdated or not, but I
guess many people feel this way)

On 8/27/2022 4:12 AM, Rene wrote:
> Maxim Reznik wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I wonder does Ada community need yet another web site?
>>
>> My idea is here:
>>
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/ada/comments/wx9zp1/yet_another_ada_web_site/
>
> Maybe a web forum would be a good idea, because many people nowadays see
> Usenet newgroups as an outdated thing. So the fact that the community
> mostly relies on comp.lang.ada may turn them off.
> (I Don't want to discuss wether Uset actually outdated or not, but I
> guess many people feel this way)
>
>

fyi,

Some are starting to use discord for such things. For example, the main
Julia forum is at discord

https://discourse.julialang.org/t/julialang-official-discord-server/45499

--Nasser

"Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> writes:

> Some are starting to use discord for such things.

Would be better than Telegram or Gitter - at any rate for actual
discussions.

On 2022-08-27 11:53, Nasser M. Abbasi wrote:

> Some are starting to use discord for such things. For example, the main
> Julia forum is at discord
>
> https://discourse.julialang.org/t/julialang-official-discord-server/45499

Indeed. It is quite uncomfortable I must say from my experience. (I
participate there because I maintain Ada Julia bindings)

P.S. They just killed Firefox support keeping it listed as a supported
browser...

P.P.S. Clearly, how anybody could implement a discussion board without
making it dependent on pentabytes of browser-specific scripts. Right? (:-))

--
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de

On 28/08/2022 08:50, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote:

> P.S. They just killed Firefox support keeping it listed as a supported
> browser...
>
> P.P.S. Clearly, how anybody could implement a discussion board without
> making it dependent on pentabytes of browser-specific scripts. Right? (:-))
>

Monopolisation of Chrome has to stop, it's not even a decent browser.
Here, it can stop working, tabs stop rendering randomly here. But then
that could also be an issue here? :/

I'm happy to announce a new Ada web site:

https://ada-lang.io/

Thank people who make it real!

I'm asking the community to send their updates and make it even better.

Here is the Paul Jarrett's original message:

Hi folks, @onox and me have been working on something for a few weeks, and we need your help. We've been building an open source, Ada community site to share with everyone. The intent is an open source community hub that will persist for a long time. There's a Github organization set up for people to contribute to and my intent is to hand off the domain to some existing Ada group.

Right now, I've migrated some of my old "programming with ada" content over, and I've built on Maxim's work to output a fancy version of the AARM for it. If you have content elsewhere you'd like to add, feel free to submit it.. You can use plain Markdown (.md files) or Markdown with React (.mdx files). Some things which I haven't found time to write, which other people could help with, would be an Alire introduction, patterns for when binding to C, how to make a memory allocator, etc.

On 16/09/2022 16:25, Maxim Reznik wrote:
> I'm happy to announce a new Ada web site:
>
> https://ada-lang.io/

Looks decent, especially the non-yellow RM.

Maxim Reznik <reznikmm@gmail.com> writes:

> I'm happy to announce a new Ada web site:
>
> https://ada-lang.io/

It would be nice if comp.lang.ada was listed under "community"; this
newsgroup is far older than all those flash-in-the-pan wannabes :).

--
-- Stephe

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:34:07 PM UTC-4, Stephen Leake wrote:
> Maxim Reznik <> writes:
>
> > I'm happy to announce a new Ada web site:
> >
> > https://ada-lang.io/
> It would be nice if comp.lang.ada was listed under "community"; this
> newsgroup is far older than all those flash-in-the-pan wannabes :).
>
> --
> -- Stephe
If you do add it, I would recommend NOT using a link to the google
groups interface given the porn spam problem. It would stink if
someone at a work computer followed it and got hammered by their
IT department (speaking from experience). Perhaps someone has a
tutorial webpage on how to setup a mail reader for comp.lang.ada
that could be linked to under the community section?

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 11:25:42 AM UTC-4, Maxim Reznik wrote:
> I'm happy to announce a new Ada web site:
>
> https://ada-lang.io/
>
> Thank people who make it real!
>
> I'm asking the community to send their updates and make it even better.
>
> Here is the Paul Jarrett's original message:
>
> Hi folks, @onox and me have been working on something for a few weeks, and we need your help. We've been building an open source, Ada community site to share with everyone. The intent is an open source community hub that will persist for a long time. There's a Github organization set up for people to contribute to and my intent is to hand off the domain to some existing Ada group.
>
> Right now, I've migrated some of my old "programming with ada" content over, and I've built on Maxim's work to output a fancy version of the AARM for it. If you have content elsewhere you'd like to add, feel free to submit it. You can use plain Markdown (.md files) or Markdown with React (.mdx files). Some things which I haven't found time to write, which other people could help with, would be an Alire introduction, patterns for when binding to C, how to make a memory allocator, etc.

I haven't gone through all of it yet, but so far, it looks very nice

On 16/09/2022 19:45, Jere wrote:
> On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:34:07 PM UTC-4, Stephen Leake wrote:
>> Maxim Reznik <> writes:
>>
>>> I'm happy to announce a new Ada web site:
>>>
>>> https://ada-lang.io/
>> It would be nice if comp.lang.ada was listed under "community"; this
>> newsgroup is far older than all those flash-in-the-pan wannabes :).
>>
>> --
>> -- Stephe
> If you do add it, I would recommend NOT using a link to the google
> groups interface given the porn spam problem. It would stink if
> someone at a work computer followed it and got hammered by their
> IT department (speaking from experience). Perhaps someone has a
> tutorial webpage on how to setup a mail reader for comp.lang.ada
> that could be linked to under the community section?

The link would be news://comp.lang.ada

On 16.09.22 17:25, Maxim Reznik wrote:
> I'm happy to announce a new Ada web site:
>
> https://ada-lang.io/
>
> Thank people who make it real!
>
> I'm asking the community to send their updates and make it even better.
>
> Here is the Paul Jarrett's original message:
>
> Hi folks, @onox and me have been working on something for a few weeks, and we need your help. We've been building an open source, Ada community site to share with everyone. The intent is an open source community hub that will persist for a long time. There's a Github organization set up for people to contribute to and my intent is to hand off the domain to some existing Ada group.
>
> Right now, I've migrated some of my old "programming with ada" content over,

<q loc=".../why-ada">Ada is missing: (...) A concept of "move".</q>

Is it somewhat true, though, that the old limited return,
or its more recent replacement, i.e., in situ construction,
could at least cover some of the idea of "move"?

Hi,

I am new to Ada and appreciate the new side for a package manager.

What I wasn't able to identify is the packages available -- is there a list?

I am very curious what else exists in the Ada ecosystem -- in particular in terms of messaging support such as websockets and others.

On 2022-09-18 10:47, grosdan wrote:

> I am new to Ada and appreciate the new side for a package manager.

I am not sure if package manager is a good idea if it does not refer the
target system's packaging tools, e.g. DEB, RPM, MSI etc.

The main problem with that stuff is usually architectural. Most of it is
plain aggregation of source code, which is utterly wrong.

The very idea to rebuild everything each time on each client is
atrocious both with regard of wasting computing resources as well as
testing, safety, consistency, interoperability inside the target.

> What I wasn't able to identify is the packages available -- is there a list?

https://www.adaic.com/ada-resources/tools-libraries/

> I am very curious what else exists in the Ada ecosystem -- in particular in terms of messaging support such as websockets and others.

There exists multiple implementations of websockets in Ada as well as
other network protocols.

I cannot suggest searching the Web, because search engines deteriorated
beyond any usability. Just ask what you need here.

--
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de

On 18/09/2022 09:47, grosdan wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am new to Ada and appreciate the new side for a package manager.
>
> What I wasn't able to identify is the packages available -- is there a list?
>
> I am very curious what else exists in the Ada ecosystem -- in particular in terms of messaging support such as websockets and others.

https://github.com/search?q=language%3AAda&type=Repositories&ref=advsearch&l=Ada&l=

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 5:25:42 PM UTC+2, Maxim Reznik wrote:
> I'm happy to announce a new Ada web site:
> https://ada-lang.io/

Well done Maxim and Paul, the new site looks nice.

One area that could be nice is a blog aggregator, which would monitor various Ada-related blogs on the Internet and help people find those resources.
I am sure you guys already have plenty of ideas on what to add, so maybe not looking for more :-)

Emmanuel

grosdan <grossd@modalai.co> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I am new to Ada and appreciate the new side for a package manager.

I assume you are talking about Alire.

> What I wasn't able to identify is the packages available -- is there a
> list?

In Alire, "packages" are called "crates"; there is a Crates menu item at
the top of the page, which takes you to
https://alire.ada.dev/crates.html, which gives a list of all crates
currently in Alire, with a brief description of each. Clicking on one
gives a more complete description.

--
-- Stephe

"G.B." <bauhaus@notmyhomepage.invalid> writes:

> <q loc=".../why-ada">Ada is missing: (...) A concept of "move".</q>
>
> Is it somewhat true, though, that the old limited return,
> or its more recent replacement, i.e., in situ construction,
> could at least cover some of the idea of "move"?

What definition/semantics of "move" do you mean? Is it documented
somewhere?

--
-- Stephe

Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org> writes:
> What definition/semantics of "move" do you mean? Is it documented
> somewhere?

I think it refers to the C++ notion.
https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/utility/move

Paul Rubin schrieb am Montag, 19. September 2022 um 20:50:50 UTC+2:
> I think it refers to the C++ notion.
> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/utility/move

What I do not understand: Why should the move operation be less expensive than a copy?
As I see it: First you have to do a copy, then delete the source.

> but also means str might now be empty.

I find this "may be empty" astonishing.

On 2022-09-20 14:44, AdaMagica wrote:
> Paul Rubin schrieb am Montag, 19. September 2022 um 20:50:50 UTC+2:
>> I think it refers to the C++ notion.
>> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/utility/move
>
> What I do not understand: Why should the move operation be less expensive than a copy?
> As I see it: First you have to do a copy, then delete the source.

The standard Ada containers have Move operations.

Containers are of course often implemented with indirection, where the
container object contains accesses to the data held in the container, so
a Move operation only has to copy the access values from the source to
the target, and does not need to copy the data. The access values in the
source are then nulled, making the source container empty. This is often
less expensive than copying the data.

Eg. for Vectors, the Ada RM says "Move should not copy elements, and
should minimize copying of internal data structures."

For the bounded Ada containers, which are not meant to use indirection,
while there are Move operations the RM says that the implementation
advice "to minimize copying" does not apply.

AdaMagica <christ-usch.grein@t-online.de> writes:
> What I do not understand: Why should the move operation be less
> expensive than a copy?

Besides avoiding copying indirectly pointed-to data, it also can enforce
single ownership in things like std::unique_ptr.

Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes:

> Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org> writes:
>> What definition/semantics of "move" do you mean? Is it documented
>> somewhere?
>
> I think it refers to the C++ notion.
> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/utility/move

This may be similar to "ownership" in SPARK:
https://docs.adacore.com/live/wave/spark2014/html/spark2014_ug/en/source/language_restrictions.html#memory-ownership-policy

--
-- Stephe