Hi all,

I'm trying to evaluate whether I can debug a batch EBCDIC program on windows using WinCobol. Do you have a complete set of directions on a basic windows 11 machine? Are there other packages I need to install?

regards,

Kevin Hutchison

In article <37af63d0-d0d4-4b27-96c8-99c71b900d64n@googlegroups.com>,
kevin hutchison <kahutchison2010@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I'm trying to evaluate whether I can debug a batch EBCDIC program on
>windows using WinCobol.

It's best to start with examining your skills and experiences. Where else
have you tried to 'debug a batch EBCDIC program'?

DD

On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 12:26:52 PM UTC-5, docd...@panix.com wrote:
> In article <37af63d0-d0d4-4b27...@googlegroups.com>,
> kevin hutchison <kahutch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Hi all,
> >
> >I'm trying to evaluate whether I can debug a batch EBCDIC program on
> >windows using WinCobol.
> It's best to start with examining your skills and experiences. Where else
> have you tried to 'debug a batch EBCDIC program'?
>
> DD

DD,

I've been in debuggers on mainframes, and in microfocus or windows (fujitsu) environments. There is no debugger at my current job, and I'm being asked questions about complex, undocumented 30 year COBOL. Specifically, to pull the business use cases out of 25k lines of code (originally assembler).

I really need a debugger to get a better handle on this stuff. I've used python and c# debuggers on windows, which is where i'm trying to execute code I'm looking at.

thanks for all your help,

Kevin Hutchison

In article <aef21f25-50e5-4a38-975d-e24473cac622n@googlegroups.com>,
kevin hutchison <kahutchison2010@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 12:26:52 PM UTC-5, docd...@panix.com wrote:
>> In article <37af63d0-d0d4-4b27...@googlegroups.com>,
>> kevin hutchison <kahutch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Hi all,
>> >
>> >I'm trying to evaluate whether I can debug a batch EBCDIC program on
>> >windows using WinCobol.
>> It's best to start with examining your skills and experiences. Where else
>> have you tried to 'debug a batch EBCDIC program'?
>
>DD,
>
>I've been in debuggers on mainframes, and in microfocus or windows
>(fujitsu) environments. There is no debugger at my current job, and I'm
>being asked questions about complex, undocumented 30 year COBOL.

30-year-old COBOL? How come you get to work on all the new, shiny stuff?
All the code they give me is loaded with AFTER POSITIONINGs and the
debugging is all DISPLAYs.

>Specifically, to pull the business use cases out of 25k lines of code
>(originally assembler).

This sounds like a rather involved project. What kind of business is it?
What's the average transaction load through the program and its run
schedule? How does not having a solid knowledge of the code's function
effect the company's function?

Where I'm going with this is... this sounds like something that's just
been bubbling along, happily, and now, all of a sudden, it has to be
changed. That's not a good approach.

>
>I really need a debugger to get a better handle on this stuff.

What's stopping the manager from issuing a purchase order?

From the start of this project: it sounds like the last time it got looked
at was for Y2K and that says, to me, that it is either very important or
trivial.

If it's very important then it's time for someone to say 'all right, we
saved all this money for all these years by letting it stagnate and now we
have to pay some back in order to make up for the neglect.'

If it's trivial then 'it isn't worth the few bucks it'll cost to get
someone in here who knows what they're doing and let them do the job we're
paying them form, just toss the process in the bin and be done with it.'

>I've used
>python and c# debuggers on windows, which is where i'm trying to execute
>code I'm looking at.
>
>thanks for all your help,

You're quite welcome. I've been dealing with situations like this for
more than three decades and I can afford to be honest.

DD

On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 13:20:52 -0700 (PDT), kevin hutchison <kahutchison2010@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 12:26:52 PM UTC-5, docd...@panix.com wrote:
>> In article <37af63d0-d0d4-4b27...@googlegroups.com>,
>> kevin hutchison <kahutch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Hi all,
>> >
>> >I'm trying to evaluate whether I can debug a batch EBCDIC program on
>> >windows using WinCobol.
>> It's best to start with examining your skills and experiences. Where else
>> have you tried to 'debug a batch EBCDIC program'?
>>
>> DD
>
>DD,
>
>I've been in debuggers on mainframes, and in microfocus or windows (fujitsu) environments. There is no debugger at my current job, and I'm being asked questions about complex, undocumented 30 year COBOL. Specifically, to pull the business use cases out of 25k lines of code (originally assembler).
>
>I really need a debugger to get a better handle on this stuff. I've used python and c# debuggers on windows, which is where i'm trying to execute code I'm looking at.
>
>thanks for all your help,
>
>Kevin Hutchison

Assembler turned Cobol needs to be reverse engineered? Hmm, sounds like a nice little project ;-)

Hello kevin!

Wednesday August 10 2022 21:20, kevin hutchison wrote to All:

> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 12:26:52 PM UTC-5, docd...@panix.com
> wrote:
>> In article <37af63d0-d0d4-4b27...@googlegroups.com>,
>> kevin hutchison <kahutch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Hi all,
>> >
>> >I'm trying to evaluate whether I can debug a batch EBCDIC program
>> on
>> >windows using WinCobol.
>> It's best to start with examining your skills and experiences. Where
>> else have you tried to 'debug a batch EBCDIC program'? DD

> DD,

> I've been in debuggers on mainframes, and in microfocus or windows
> (fujitsu) environments. There is no debugger at my current job, and
> I'm being asked questions about complex, undocumented 30 year COBOL.
> Specifically, to pull the business use cases out of 25k lines of code
> (originally assembler).

> I really need a debugger to get a better handle on this stuff. I've
> used python and c# debuggers on windows, which is where i'm trying to
> execute code I'm looking at.

You might be better looking at the original assembler assuming no
functional change have occurred.

But it is better than the project I worked on in the early 70's converting
a IBM 1401 application written in Autocode with only the object decks
available that had to be migrated over to a ICT 1901 in Cobol, run by the
local government in Barbados when the original 1401 was costing too much to
maintain and keep running.

By the time the object decks was run through a translator back to assembler
in the USA and I finished it it would be been a lot cheaper and quicker to
write it from scratch but the client did not want to go that route.

A warn climate for some 15 months when the UK was close or on a 3 day week
with reduced power etc.

At least I got my civilian pilots licence while I had not a lot to do at
the expensive rate of 6 pounds a hour (24 barbados dollars) :)

For a change I went up for an hour at a local flying club and it was 190
pounds per hour (including 50 for an instructor), so not likely to be in a
rush to go again. When I was a instructor I got five pounds and was not
enough to pay for all my rating renews once or twice per year - how time
flies !

Vincent

On 8/10/2022 2:20 PM, kevin hutchison wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 12:26:52 PM UTC-5, docd...@panix.com wrote:
>> In article <37af63d0-d0d4-4b27...@googlegroups.com>,
>> kevin hutchison <kahutch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm trying to evaluate whether I can debug a batch EBCDIC program on
>>> windows using WinCobol.
>> It's best to start with examining your skills and experiences. Where else
>> have you tried to 'debug a batch EBCDIC program'?
>>
>> DD
> DD,
>
> I've been in debuggers on mainframes, and in microfocus or windows (fujitsu) environments. There is no debugger at my current job, and I'm being asked questions about complex, undocumented 30 year COBOL. Specifically, to pull the business use cases out of 25k lines of code (originally assembler).
>
> I really need a debugger to get a better handle on this stuff. I've used python and c# debuggers on windows, which is where i'm trying to execute code I'm looking at.
>
> thanks for all your help,
>
> Kevin Hutchison

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by an "EBCDIC program"?

If it means that the program source was originally stored on a mainframe
with EBCDIC encoding, and if the source can be converted to ASCII
without losing any information, then the original encoding might not matter.

If the program reads and writes text files that can be represented in
EBCDIC or ASCII without changing anything but the encoding, then life
gets easier. If some of the data is stored as packed decimal, then an
EBCDIC to ASCII conversion will screw things up, and your life just got
more difficult. If I recall correctly, the native EBCDIC sort order puts
letters before numbers, while ASCII does the opposite, so that might be
a problem.

I believe GNU COBOL can be installed on Windows:

https://gnucobol.sourceforge.io/

Since GNU COBOL translates COBOL to C and then invokes the GNU C
compiler to do the final compilation, it's not clear how much a debugger
would help you, although I'm ready to stand corrected. Like Doc said,
there's nothing wrong with liberal usage of the DISPLAY statement.

There's also a COBOL front end for GCC, but that's a work in progress:

https://gcc.gnu.org/pipermail/gcc/2022-March/238408.html

(If you're like me and you're more comfortable with Linux than with
Windows, a Linux virtual machine might make your life a little easier.)

Louis