Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for
the extension WHL or is it really a name?

Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come
with pip ready to run. I had to say

python -m ensurepip

and then I saw that a pip on a whl-package was installed. Why doesn't
the official distribution make pip ready to run by default? Thank you!

Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> wrote or quoted:
>Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for
>the extension WHL or is it really a name?

PyPi in its initial state was named "cheese shop", as the famous
part in the show "Monty Python Cheese Shop". Because initially it
only hosted links to the packages, so it was empty like that shop.
And within a cheese shop what do you store? Wheels of cheese.

>Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come
>with pip ready to run. I had to say

Some Python distributions do not come with pip pre-installed
because they have their own package management systems.

ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote or quoted:
>>Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come
>>with pip ready to run. I had to say
>Some Python distributions do not come with pip pre-installed
>because they have their own package management systems.

Here's a small digest, created with Python:

|Many if not most Linux distributions do not include pip by default.
....
|On systems based on Debian, you can install pip with:
|sudo apt install python3- pip
|On others, you will have to look around in the package manager or search
|on line.
Thomas Passin on 2023-05-12 in "comp.lang.python.mbox",
Subject: pip module not found

|get things working on Linux. Ubuntu, like many other Linux distros,
|does not come with pip and Tk (needed for Idle) installed, and it's not
|so obvious how to install them.
Thomas Passin on 2023-05-15 in "comp.lang.python.mbox",
Subject: PythonPath / sys.path

|if you use the distro's package manager to install Python packages
|instead of using pip. If there is no distro package, you're usually
|also better off using 'pip install --user' so that pip isn't messing
|about with directories that are normally managed by the distro's
|package manager.
Grant Edwards on 2023-05-19 in "comp.lang.python.mbox",
Subject: Tkinter (related)

|Also make sure you're using a pip that matches your Python.
|It's usuallysafer if you invoke it as:
|python -m pip install --upgrade pip
|(or whatever the precise name of your Python 2 interpreter actually is)
Mats Wichmann on 2023-09-27 in "comp.lang.python.mbox",
Subject: upgrade of pip on my python 2.7 version

|If you were using a Linux distro, you probably don't want to mess with
|the "system pip" which is usually set up to understand details of how
|that distro's Python is packaged. It looks like you're on Windows by
|the paths in your original message, so that should be okay.
Mats Wichmann on 2023-09-27 in "comp.lang.python.mbox",
Subject: upgrade of pip on my python 2.7 version

ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:

> Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> wrote or quoted:
>>Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for
>>the extension WHL or is it really a name?
>
> PyPi in its initial state was named "cheese shop", as the famous
> part in the show "Monty Python Cheese Shop". Because initially it
> only hosted links to the packages, so it was empty like that shop.
> And within a cheese shop what do you store? Wheels of cheese.

Lol! Loved it. (Thanks very much.)

>>Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come
>>with pip ready to run. I had to say
>
> Some Python distributions do not come with pip pre-installed
> because they have their own package management systems.

But this was a Windows install. I don't think Windows has its own
package management for Python packages. I'd be totally surprised.

I believe that the name "Wheel" was a reference to "reinventing the
wheel". But I cannot find a quote to support this claim. I think the
general sentiment was that it was the second attempt by the Python
community to come up with a packaging format (first being Egg), and so
they were reinventing the wheel, in a way.

I cannot speak to the other question though: I don't know. This is
however also a common practice on Linux, where Python is often
installed in order to enable system tools, which, in turn, don't need
a Python package manager to function. Not sure why this would be the
case in MS Windows.

On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 4:51 PM Johanne Fairchild via Python-list
<python-list@python.org> wrote:
>
> Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for
> the extension WHL or is it really a name?
>
> Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come
> with pip ready to run. I had to say
>
> python -m ensurepip
>
> and then I saw that a pip on a whl-package was installed. Why doesn't
> the official distribution make pip ready to run by default? Thank you!
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> wrote or quoted:
>ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:
>>Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> wrote or quoted:
>>>Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for
>>>the extension WHL or is it really a name?
>>PyPi in its initial state was named "cheese shop", as the famous
>>part in the show "Monty Python Cheese Shop". Because initially it
>>only hosted links to the packages, so it was empty like that shop.
>>And within a cheese shop what do you store? Wheels of cheese.
>Lol! Loved it. (Thanks very much.)

I'm glad you enjoyed it!

>>>Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come
>>>with pip ready to run. I had to say
>>Some Python distributions do not come with pip pre-installed
>>because they have their own package management systems.
>But this was a Windows install. I don't think Windows has its own
>package management for Python packages. I'd be totally surprised.

I install Python from

www.python.org/downloads/windows/

. Some versions of the installer have "[ ] Install launcher for
all users (recommended)"; when this is not checked, one sometimes
does not need admin rights. Some versions of the installer have
"[V] Add Python to PATH". If this is not checked, it's possible
that pip is installed, but not on the path, so it might not be
callable easily from the command line, and the command "python"
then sometimes brings up a different Python than installed. (On
Windows, one can use "py" to call Python on the command line.)

On 2024-03-21 11:36, Johanne Fairchild via Python-list wrote:
> Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for
> the extension WHL or is it really a name?
>
> Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come
> with pip ready to run. I had to say
>
> python -m ensurepip
>
> and then I saw that a pip on a whl-package was installed. Why doesn't
> the official distribution make pip ready to run by default? Thank you!

When I install Python on Windows, I always get pip by default, although
it might not be on the system search path.

As it's recommended to use the Python Launcher py on Windows, I use that
instead:

py -m pip install something

because it gives better support if you have multiple versions of Python
installed.

On 2024-03-21, MRAB via Python-list <python-list@python.org> wrote:

> As it's recommended to use the Python Launcher py on Windows, I use
> that instead:
>
> py -m pip install something
>
> because it gives better support if you have multiple versions of
> Python installed.

I adopted that practice years ago on Linux as well after wasting what
seemed like most of a day trying to figure out problems which turned
out to be caused by the fact that "pip" and "python" invoked different
versions of Python.

On 21 Mar 2024 12:49:22 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

> Many if not most Linux distributions do not include pip by default.

Really? It came with Manjaro.

--
Gilmeh

Rap music is just computerised crap. I listen to Top of the Pops and after
three songs I feel like killing someone. -- George Harrison

On 3/21/2024 4:19 PM, Grant Edwards via Python-list wrote:
> On 2024-03-21, MRAB via Python-list <python-list@python.org> wrote:
>
>> As it's recommended to use the Python Launcher py on Windows, I use
>> that instead:
>>
>> py -m pip install something
>>
>> because it gives better support if you have multiple versions of
>> Python installed.
>
> I adopted that practice years ago on Linux as well after wasting what
> seemed like most of a day trying to figure out problems which turned
> out to be caused by the fact that "pip" and "python" invoked different
> versions of Python.

Although you still need to be aware that there might be a different
Python installation between e.g. "python3 -m pip" and "python3.11 -m
pip", etc. depending on what's been installed.

Am Do., 21.März.2024 um 18:58:26 schrieb Johanne Fairchild via Python-list:
> ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:
>
>> Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> wrote or quoted:
>>> Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for
>>> the extension WHL or is it really a name?
>>
>> PyPi in its initial state was named "cheese shop", as the famous
>> part in the show "Monty Python Cheese Shop". Because initially it
>> only hosted links to the packages, so it was empty like that shop.
>> And within a cheese shop what do you store? Wheels of cheese.
>
> Lol! Loved it. (Thanks very much.)
>
>>> Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come
>>> with pip ready to run. I had to say
>>
>> Some Python distributions do not come with pip pre-installed
>> because they have their own package management systems.
>
> But this was a Windows install. I don't think Windows has its own
> package management for Python packages. I'd be totally surprised.
The python packages found at https://www.python.org/downloads/ come with
pip and pip installed out of the box.
But there are others like active python having other packet managers
they do not install pip out of the box. Refer to their instructions how
to install packages.
--
Thomas