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Re: To clarify how Python handles two equal objects

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Subject: Re: To clarify how Python handles two equal objects
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2023 16:59:59 -0500
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by: Thomas Passin - Tue, 10 Jan 2023 21:59 UTC

Just to add a possibly picky detail to what others have said, Python
does not have an "array" type. It has a "list" type, as well as some
other, not necessarily mutable, sequence types.

If you want to speed up list and matrix operations, you might use NumPy.
Its arrays and matrices are heavily optimized for fast processing and
provide many useful operations on them. No use calling out to C code
yourself when NumPy has been refining that for many years.

On 1/10/2023 4:10 PM, MRAB wrote:
> On 2023-01-10 20:41, Jen Kris via Python-list wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for your comments. I'd like to make one small point. You say:
>>
>> "Assignment in Python is a matter of object references. It's not
>> "conform them as long as they remain equal". You'll have to think in
>> terms of object references the entire way."
>>
>> But where they have been set to the same object, an operation on one
>> will affect the other as long as they are equal (in Python). So I
>> will have to conform them in those cases because Python will reflect
>> any math operation in both the array and the matrix.
>>
> It's not a 2D matrix, it's a 1D list containing references to 1D lists,
> each of which contains references to Python ints.
>
> In CPython, references happen to be pointers, but that's just an
> implementation detail.
>
>>
>>
>> Jan 10, 2023, 12:28 by rosuav@gmail.com:
>>
>>> On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 at 07:14, Jen Kris via Python-list
>>> <python-list@python.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am writing a spot speedup in assembly language for a short but
>>>> computation-intensive Python loop, and I discovered something about
>>>> Python array handling that I would like to clarify.
>>>>
>>>> For a simplified example, I created a matrix mx1 and assigned the
>>>> array arr1 to the third row of the matrix:
>>>>
>>>> mx1 = [ [ 1, 2, 3 ], [ 4, 5, 6 ], [ 7, 8, 9 ] ]
>>>> arr1 = mx1[2]
>>>>
>>>> The pointers to these are now the same:
>>>>
>>>> ida = id(mx1[2]) - 140260325306880
>>>> idb = id(arr1) - 140260325306880
>>>>
>>>> That’s great because when I encounter this in assembly or C, I can
>>>> just borrow the pointer to row 3 for the array arr1, on the
>>>> assumption that they will continue to point to the same object.
>>>> Then when I do any math operations in arr1 it will be reflected in
>>>> both arrays because they are now pointing to the same array:
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's not an optimization; what you've done is set arr1 to be a
>>> reference to that object.
>>>
>>>> But on the next iteration we assign arr1 to something else:
>>>>
>>>> arr1 = [ 10, 11, 12 ]
>>>> idc = id(arr1) – 140260325308160
>>>> idd = id(mx1[2]) – 140260325306880
>>>>
>>>> Now arr1 is no longer equal to mx1[2], and any subsequent operations
>>>> in arr1 will not affect mx1.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yep, you have just set arr1 to be a completely different object.
>>>
>>>> So where I’m rewriting some Python code in a low level language, I
>>>> can’t assume that the two objects are equal because that equality
>>>> will not remain if either is reassigned. So if I do some operation
>>>> on one array I have to conform the two arrays for as long as they
>>>> remain equal, I can’t just do it in one operation because I can’t
>>>> rely on the objects remaining equal.
>>>>
>>>> Is my understanding of this correct? Is there anything I’m missing?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Assignment in Python is a matter of object references. It's not
>>> "conform them as long as they remain equal". You'll have to think in
>>> terms of object references the entire way.
>>>
>>> ChrisA
>>> --
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>
>>
>

Re: To clarify how Python handles two equal objects

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From: wlfraed@ix.netcom.com (Dennis Lee Bieber)
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Subject: Re: To clarify how Python handles two equal objects
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by: Dennis Lee Bieber - Wed, 11 Jan 2023 18:55 UTC

All power corrupts, but we need electricity.

devel / comp.lang.python / Re: To clarify how Python handles two equal objects

devel / comp.lang.python / Re: To clarify how Python handles two equal objects

Subject	Author
Re: To clarify how Python handles two equal objects	Thomas Passin
Re: To clarify how Python handles two equal objects	Dennis Lee Bieber