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devel / comp.protocols.dicom / Re: Why is the "Distance Source to Reference Point" in RDSR accumulated?

SubjectAuthor
* Why is the "Distance Source to Reference Point" in RDSR accumulated?Stefan Allers
`* Re: Why is the "Distance Source to Reference Point" in RDSR accumulated?Stefan Allers
 `* Re: Why is the "Distance Source to Reference Point" in RDSR accumulated?Kevin O'Donnell
  `- Re: Why is the "Distance Source to Reference Point" in RDSR accumulated?Stefan Allers

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Why is the "Distance Source to Reference Point" in RDSR accumulated?

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Subject: Why is the "Distance Source to Reference Point" in RDSR accumulated?
From: stefan.allers@gmail.com (Stefan Allers)
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 by: Stefan Allers - Mon, 7 Jun 2021 12:52 UTC

HI DICOM experts,

I am wondering why the EV (113737, DCM, "Distance Source to Reference Point") is contained in TID 10004 "Accumulated Projection X-Ray Dose". The distance might depend on the SID and what should be written in case of several acquisitions and the distances are not equal?

As this distance is now requested from IEC 60601-2-54:2009 + A1:2015 + A2:2018 we wonder what value we should take...

Thanks,
Stefan

Re: Why is the "Distance Source to Reference Point" in RDSR accumulated?

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Subject: Re: Why is the "Distance Source to Reference Point" in RDSR accumulated?
From: stefan.allers@gmail.com (Stefan Allers)
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 by: Stefan Allers - Mon, 14 Jun 2021 13:31 UTC

Stefan Allers schrieb am Montag, 7. Juni 2021 um 14:52:52 UTC+2:
> HI DICOM experts,
>
> I am wondering why the EV (113737, DCM, "Distance Source to Reference Point") is contained in TID 10004 "Accumulated Projection X-Ray Dose". The distance might depend on the SID and what should be written in case of several acquisitions and the distances are not equal?
>
> As this distance is now requested from IEC 60601-2-54:2009 + A1:2015 + A2:2018 we wonder what value we should take...
>
> Thanks,
> Stefan

Hi all,

any idea who I can contact regarding this issue? According to my understanding the EV (113737, DCM, "Distance Source to Reference Point") should be part of the TID 10003 for Irradiation Events and not an accumulated value? It seems to be placed wrong in TID 10004 "Accumulated Projection X-Ray Dose"....

Thanks,
Stefan

Re: Why is the "Distance Source to Reference Point" in RDSR accumulated?

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Subject: Re: Why is the "Distance Source to Reference Point" in RDSR accumulated?
From: kodonnell@mru.medical.canon (Kevin O'Donnell)
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 by: Kevin O'Donnell - Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:58 UTC

Hi Stefan,

I think you may be looking at an older edition of the standard. While that item was in TID 10004 at one time, there was some refactoring done in 2013 that removed it. You can find the current edition of DICOM at dicomstandard.org/current.

That item still exists as optional in TID 10007 Accumulated Total Projection Radiography Dose with the Row Description below saying that it's "A single value for Radiography systems calculating reference point dose based on fixed distance". So in the case you mention where the distance differs, the attribute would be absent.

IEC Subcommittee 62B (who authors 60601) usually cross-checks the current DICOM material, but it's not inconceivable that a detail or two fall through the cracks or ends up misaligned.

In terms of who to contact, I'm glad you asked. :-)
dicomstandard.org/wgs lists all the DICOM Working Groups. In this case it would be Physics WG-28.
If you click on the "WG-28 Physics" link on that page, you'll get an overview of the working group scope, activities, and emails for getting in touch.
If you want to get into deeper dose details, that's where the medical physics experts (which I am not) live.

Cheers,
Kevin

Re: Why is the "Distance Source to Reference Point" in RDSR accumulated?

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Subject: Re: Why is the "Distance Source to Reference Point" in RDSR accumulated?
From: stefan.allers@gmail.com (Stefan Allers)
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 by: Stefan Allers - Tue, 15 Jun 2021 21:34 UTC

Hi Kevin,

thanks a lot for the explanations! It is much clearer now. I'll try to get in contact with someone from IEC-6061 for clarification about the outdated requirement for "Distance Source to Reference Point" in TID 10004. For our X-Ray systems we will then only write this attribute in TID 10007 if the distance is really fix for all acquisitions.

Regards,
Stefan

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