At a White House press conference today, the Biden administration officially
announced the nomination of Steve Dettelbach for ATF Director and new ATF
regulations aimed at the home manufacturing of firearms.

Dettelbach, a former classmate of Barack Obama who has been enthusiastically
endorsed by anti-2A groups like Everytown and Giffords, is the Biden
Administration's attempt to appoint someone with the same radical values as
David Chipman, but with a less embarrassing public paper trail.

The White House also announced the final rule on so-called "ghost guns"
that will classify certain parts or combinations of parts as full-on firearms.

These tyrants demonize advances in firearm technology and invent terms like
"ghost guns" to scare the uninformed into supporting their agenda.

But the truth is, the self-manufacturing of firearms is something deeply rooted
in American tradition and protected by the Constitution.

.... "Remember what the doormouse said: Feed Your Head."
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
� Synchronet � -=The Wastelands BBS=- -=Since 1990=-

-=> Thumper wrote to All <=-

Th> These tyrants demonize advances in firearm technology and invent terms
Th> like "ghost guns" to scare the uninformed into supporting their agenda.

I think they're more scared about the fact that mass shootings are becoming
normalized in people's minds, because they happen so god damned often.

Th> But the truth is, the self-manufacturing of firearms is something
Th> deeply rooted in American tradition and protected by the Constitution.

Are there precedents regarding home firearm manufacturing and modification
in case law? Not being a smart ass, actually curious.

.... Two protons expelled at each coupling site creates the mode of force
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
� Synchronet � .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.

Re: Re:
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Thumper on Tue Apr 12 2022 07:02 am

> -=> Thumper wrote to All <=-
>
> Th> These tyrants demonize advances in firearm technology and invent terms
> Th> like "ghost guns" to scare the uninformed into supporting their agenda.
>
> I think they're more scared about the fact that mass shootings are becoming
> normalized in people's minds, because they happen so god damned often.
>
> Th> But the truth is, the self-manufacturing of firearms is something
> Th> deeply rooted in American tradition and protected by the Constitution.
>
> Are there precedents regarding home firearm manufacturing and modification
> in case law? Not being a smart ass, actually curious.
>
>
>
> ... Two protons expelled at each coupling site creates the mode of force

As a matter of fact, politicians don't care if there is crime or shootings or
four horsemen of the Apocalypse ravaging the country, since bad stuff happens
to the poor but not to them. Most of the time they do something for the good
of the people, there is a clear hidden reason. If it actually helps people it
is accidental.

The new Spanish tax on sweet drinks comes to mind. The argument for imposing it
was that it was aimed at reducing comsumption of drinks with excess sugar. In
reality, the tax was applied to a lot of drinks with no sugar. They used fear
from sugar as an excuse for pushing a law that gave them more power of the
entirety of the drink industry and affected a lot of manufacturers who had
nothing to do with the alleged excuse.

Surely, you see how this works.

If they were scared of guns manufactured in underground workshops being used
for active shootings, it would be interesting to see how many unregistered guns
have been manufactured and used for one of those in an underground workshop. I
bet not many. Spain is an example of a country with a tight supply of
commercial weapon parts, which makes it the sort of place in which baddies
would turn to underground manufacturing, and while there are underground
blacksmiths, baddies main sources of guns here are civil war stashes, corrupt
law enforcers an Eastern Europe Smugglers.

Afaik homemade guns are explicitly legal in a number of US States.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

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Re: Re:
By: Arelor to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Apr 13 2022 07:06 am

> Re: Re:
> By: poindexter FORTRAN to Thumper on Tue Apr 12 2022 07:02 am
>
> > -=> Thumper wrote to All <=-
> >
> > Th> These tyrants demonize advances in firearm technology and invent ter
> > Th> like "ghost guns" to scare the uninformed into supporting their agen
> >
> > I think they're more scared about the fact that mass shootings are becomi
> > normalized in people's minds, because they happen so god damned often.
> >
> > Th> But the truth is, the self-manufacturing of firearms is something
> > Th> deeply rooted in American tradition and protected by the Constitutio
> >
> > Are there precedents regarding home firearm manufacturing and modificatio
> > in case law? Not being a smart ass, actually curious.
> >
> >
> >
> > ... Two protons expelled at each coupling site creates the mode of force
>
> As a matter of fact, politicians don't care if there is crime or shootings o
> four horsemen of the Apocalypse ravaging the country, since bad stuff happen
> to the poor but not to them. Most of the time they do something for the go
> of the people, there is a clear hidden reason. If it actually helps people i
> is accidental.
>
> The new Spanish tax on sweet drinks comes to mind. The argument for imposing
> was that it was aimed at reducing comsumption of drinks with excess sugar. I
> reality, the tax was applied to a lot of drinks with no sugar. They used fea
> from sugar as an excuse for pushing a law that gave them more power of the
> entirety of the drink industry and affected a lot of manufacturers who had
> nothing to do with the alleged excuse.
>
> Surely, you see how this works.
>
> If they were scared of guns manufactured in underground workshops being used
> for active shootings, it would be interesting to see how many unregistered g
> have been manufactured and used for one of those in an underground workshop.
> bet not many. Spain is an example of a country with a tight supply of
> commercial weapon parts, which makes it the sort of place in which baddies
> would turn to underground manufacturing, and while there are underground
> blacksmiths, baddies main sources of guns here are civil war stashes, corrup
> law enforcers an Eastern Europe Smugglers.
>
> Afaik homemade guns are explicitly legal in a number of US States.
>
>
> --
> gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
>

Home made firearms are legal as long as you're making them for personal use.
manufacturing for profit is illegal.

Regarding criminal activity with "ghost guns," they're not actual acts of viol
ence. They are arrests of individuals who are prohibited from legally owning
a firearm getting caught with one. Home made firearms are nothing new. The
difference is people can buy CNC mini mills that fit on a table top that do
all the precision work.

Years ago I saw a builder's blog where the gunsmith bought a shovel at the
local big box hardware store, and used a bending brake, a saw, a drill and a
hammer cut and bend the shovel scoop into an AK receiver. Excess metal used t
o create smaller pieces of the receiver that required welding in place. The
buttstock was made from the handle. the rest of the gun was surplus parts
that require no special paperwork to own. Most military arms made aroiund
and after WWII were made of stamped pieces spot welded together. the complex
parts were firing components, the bolt, and the rifled barrel.

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Re:
By: Thumper to All on Mon Apr 11 2022 01:10 pm

> But the truth is, the self-manufacturing of firearms is something deeply
> rooted in American tradition and protected by the Constitution.

Completely agree, Thumper. Even though I have not yet been trained in firearms, I am a student of history (even got my degree in it over two decades ago!), and appreciate how not only did the widespread availability of arms ensure the British were defeated during the American Revolutionary War, but also dissuaded both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union from envisaging an invasion of the United States.

It is a strategy that is being increasingly deployed in the Ukraine against Russian aggression and will be part and parcel of what keeps that country and its people free and independent.
-=- Kaelon -=- kaelon@kaelon.com -=-

---
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Re: re: the American Traditio
By: Kaelon to Thumper on Fri Apr 29 2022 11:00 am

> Re:
> By: Thumper to All on Mon Apr 11 2022 01:10 pm
>
> > But the truth is, the self-manufacturing of firearms is something deeply
> > rooted in American tradition and protected by the Constitution.
>
> Completely agree, Thumper. Even though I have not yet been trained in firear
> ed during the American Revolutionary War, but also dissuaded both Nazi Germa
>
> It is a strategy that is being increasingly deployed in the Ukraine against
> -=- Kaelon -=- kaelon@kaelon.com -=-
>

April 19th marked the date of the beginning of the US Revolution, the battle
of Lexington and Concord. The objective of the British landing force was
to sieze the powder magazine in Conchord. That was a decisive moment since
the Redcoats couldn't bring the volume of powder that matched what was at the
armory. One of the volunteer's only job that night was stay at the magazine
and burn it down if it looked like the Redcoats could capture it.

Manufacturing and private ownership in the States was also a must have in the
early days due to the king not having the money or sympathy to protect the
new colonists from natives and aggressors from other countries. Telling the
subjects to arm themselves was a critical move towards not needing a king and
his army.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: re: the American Traditio
By: Moondog to Kaelon on Sat Apr 30 2022 02:04 pm

> April 19th marked the date of the beginning of the US Revolution, the battle
> of Lexington and Concord. The objective of the British landing force was
> to sieze the powder magazine in Conchord. That was a decisive moment since
> the Redcoats couldn't bring the volume of powder that matched what was at
> the armory. One of the volunteer's only job that night was stay at the
> magazine and burn it down if it looked like the Redcoats could capture it.

This is wonderful. Thanks for sharing this! Although I live on the South Shore of Massachusetts now, I grew up in Florida and other than the names of the battles and the underlying political and economic motivations of the founders, I never have appreciated the start of the American Revolutionary War until I moved up here two decades ago. I'm just minutes away from Lexington and Concord, and should really partake much more of this rich history.

For the Ukrainians, arming its entire population has been a critical moment and inspiring for Americans to recall our own foundations in freedom. I hope that, in time, people will look to the preservation and inevitable victory of Ukraine as a re-founding of global freedom everywhere.
_____
-=: Kaelon :=-

---
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Re: re: the American Traditio
By: Kaelon to Moondog on Sun May 01 2022 03:14 pm

> Re: re: the American Traditio
> By: Moondog to Kaelon on Sat Apr 30 2022 02:04 pm
>
> > April 19th marked the date of the beginning of the US Revolution, the bat
> > of Lexington and Concord. The objective of the British landing force was
> > to sieze the powder magazine in Conchord. That was a decisive moment sin
> > the Redcoats couldn't bring the volume of powder that matched what was at
> > the armory. One of the volunteer's only job that night was stay at the
> > magazine and burn it down if it looked like the Redcoats could capture it
>
> This is wonderful. Thanks for sharing this! Although I live on the South S
> iated the start of the American Revolutionary War until I moved up here two
>
> For the Ukrainians, arming its entire population has been a critical moment
> ng of global freedom everywhere.
> _____
> -=: Kaelon :=-
>
Check out Project Appleseed when you have a chance. It's a two day
marksmanship course tied in with history lessons specifically from the battle
of Lexington and Conchord. If you never shot a rifle, they bring spares and y
ou are the best candidate for training, and if you have shot, it's still good
training. You'll learn to shoot with a rifle sling while standing, kneeling,
and prone at 25 yards, and later stages include shooting at smaller scaled
targets to simulate shooting at longer distances. One cool target is a
Morgan's Shingle, which is the size of a postage stamp to recreate the size
of a head at 250 yards when hung at 25 yards. Captain Daniel Morgan was
given command of two rifle companies supporting General Washington, and a
pre-requisite to join was one chance to hit a wooden roofing shingle the size
of an officer's head.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: re: the American Traditio
By: Moondog to Kaelon on Mon May 02 2022 12:11 am

> Check out Project Appleseed when you have a chance. It's a two day
> marksmanship course tied in with history lessons specifically from the
> battle of Lexington and Conchord. If you never shot a rifle, they bring
> spares and y ou are the best candidate for training, and if you have shot,
> it's still good training. You'll learn to shoot with a rifle sling while
> standing, kneeling, and prone at 25 yards, and later stages include shooting
> at smaller scaled targets to simulate shooting at longer distances.

Thanks so much for this recommendation! I checked them out at https://appleseedinfo.org and was delighted to find out that they have a monthly course here in Massachusetts at the Harvard Sports Yard. Thrilling! I'm surprised that, as a Freemason, I've never heard about this before from other brothers, but I will be sure to share this at Lodge the next time I go.
_____
-=: Kaelon :=-

---
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Re: re: the American Traditio
By: Kaelon to Moondog on Mon May 02 2022 07:39 am

> Re: re: the American Traditio
> By: Moondog to Kaelon on Mon May 02 2022 12:11 am
>
> > Check out Project Appleseed when you have a chance. It's a two day
> > marksmanship course tied in with history lessons specifically from the
> > battle of Lexington and Conchord. If you never shot a rifle, they bring
> > spares and y ou are the best candidate for training, and if you have shot
> > it's still good training. You'll learn to shoot with a rifle sling while
> > standing, kneeling, and prone at 25 yards, and later stages include shoot
> > at smaller scaled targets to simulate shooting at longer distances.
>
> Thanks so much for this recommendation! I checked them out at https://apples
> ver heard about this before from other brothers, but I will be sure to share
> _____
> -=: Kaelon :=-
>
A couple of years ago there was some falling out in the Appleseed circles,
and a second group called Revere's Riders grew out of it. I'm not familiar
with the drama that started it or what the major differences are, but the
Appleseed guys I know endorse trying either program and are good friends with
the guys who split off.

In the searching I've briefly done there were arguments about growth or expand
ing the training provided by Appleseed, and a bunch of trainers and
facilitators walked out and made the program how they wanted it.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: re: the American Traditio
By: Moondog to Kaelon on Mon May 02 2022 09:57 pm

> A couple of years ago there was some falling out in the Appleseed circles,
> and a second group called Revere's Riders grew out of it. I'm not familiar
> with the drama that started it or what the major differences are, but the
> Appleseed guys I know endorse trying either program and are good friends
> with the guys who split off.
>
> In the searching I've briefly done there were arguments about growth or
> expand ing the training provided by Appleseed, and a bunch of trainers and
> facilitators walked out and made the program how they wanted it.

In my view, as long as there is a program that teaches both civic responsibility and promotes responsible gun ownership through training, safety, and marksmanship, that's the sort of program that I want to get involved in and introduce my son into. There's a lot to be said for appreciating the awesome power and tremendous responsibility inherent in owning and using a weapon, but that requires training, education, and proper orientation to the right way of doing things. And this is deeply entrenched in an American History that just isn't taught anymore, and hasn't since before I was born.
_____
-=: Kaelon :=-

---
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Re: re: the American Traditio
By: Kaelon to Moondog on Tue May 03 2022 08:12 am

> Re: re: the American Traditio
> By: Moondog to Kaelon on Mon May 02 2022 09:57 pm
>
> > A couple of years ago there was some falling out in the Appleseed circles
> > and a second group called Revere's Riders grew out of it. I'm not famili
> > with the drama that started it or what the major differences are, but the
> > Appleseed guys I know endorse trying either program and are good friends
> > with the guys who split off.
> >
> > In the searching I've briefly done there were arguments about growth or
> > expand ing the training provided by Appleseed, and a bunch of trainers a
> > facilitators walked out and made the program how they wanted it.
>
> In my view, as long as there is a program that teaches both civic responsibi
> e's a lot to be said for appreciating the awesome power and tremendous respo
> an American History that just isn't taught anymore, and hasn't since before
> _____
> -=: Kaelon :=-
>
Everyone is familiar with the poem about the ride of Paul Revere, however the
events in real life didn't work out as told. He wasn't the only messenger -
they had redundant riders. Considering the people with subjects of the king,
yelling the British are coming would make little sense. Revere was caught
and interrogated, and told them everything because events were already in
motion. The officer took his horse and left him to be guarded. His escape
was less than spectacular. The guards wandered off and didn't take him with
them.

---
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Re: re: the American Traditio
By: Moondog to Kaelon on Wed May 04 2022 12:40 am

> Everyone is familiar with the poem about the ride of Paul Revere, however
> the events in real life didn't work out as told. He wasn't the only
> messenger - they had redundant riders. Considering the people with subjects
> of the king, yelling the British are coming would make little sense. Revere
> was caught
> and interrogated, and told them everything because events were already in
> motion. The officer took his horse and left him to be guarded. His escape
> was less than spectacular. The guards wandered off and didn't take him with
> them.

While this particular tangent I am about to convey probably belongs best in DOVE-Net Entertainment, I can't help myself because it's relevant. In the TV series, "Turn," there is such an interesting contrast between the sanitized version of the American Revolutionary events that school children are taught, and the actual ruthlessness and intelligence operation undertaken by Continental forces under Washington.

I feel that the public should be educated broadly on both the fundamentals of American History - what Benjamin Franklin described of 'Americans' as being a "rougher, simpler, more violent, more enterprising, less refined" people. He concluded that "we were a new nationality, and thus required a new nation." The freedom guaranteed only by arms is at the heart of what made our pioneering colonial forefathers truly independent in nationality and sovereignty.
_____
-=: Kaelon :=-

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Re: re: the American Traditio
By: Kaelon to Moondog on Wed May 04 2022 11:01 am

> Re: re: the American Traditio
> By: Moondog to Kaelon on Wed May 04 2022 12:40 am
>
> > Everyone is familiar with the poem about the ride of Paul Revere, however
> > the events in real life didn't work out as told. He wasn't the only
> > messenger - they had redundant riders. Considering the people with subje
> > of the king, yelling the British are coming would make little sense. Rev
> > was caught
> > and interrogated, and told them everything because events were already in
> > motion. The officer took his horse and left him to be guarded. His esca
> > was less than spectacular. The guards wandered off and didn't take him w
> > them.
>
> While this particular tangent I am about to convey probably belongs best in
> Revolutionary events that school children are taught, and the actual ruthles
>
> I feel that the public should be educated broadly on both the fundamentals o
> re a new nationality, and thus required a new nation." The freedom guarante
> _____
> -=: Kaelon :=-
>
The rattlesnake on the Gadsen flag came from Franklin's writings. It is one
of the few animals that warns you before you act too foolishly. It will not
attack unless provoked, and even then it's rattle is fair warning to whoever
doesn't back down. Step on the snake and you will get hurt.

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