> i've been told not to sweep when i have nothing to do. i was told to drink at
> bar during our breaks (no prob with that!), i was told that i was not allowed
> work for a 2 week period during the holidays because i was not in the union y
> . unions just hold people back now.

I worked in a union shop for a couple of years but, as office staff, we
were not union. The union really sold their employees out. There had a
been a big strike there a couple of years before I started. One day, the
HR manager from that time came in and a bunch of the union guys were
hugging on him like a brother. I asked one of them about it later... like,
you know, since he would have been management during the strike. He told
me the strike taught them who really cared about them (the HR manager from
that era) and who didn't (the union, the current HR manager).

There were still a few die-hard pro-union workers while I was still there,
but most of them were only in it because they had to be in order to work
there.

I got laid off in 1996. The plant was closed by 2000, with only a skeleton
sales staff left over.

* SLMR 2.1a * Ethernet: A device to catch the Ether Bunny.

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Re: How far I've come...
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Tue Jan 31 2023 03:34 pm

> There were still a few die-hard pro-union workers while I was still there,
> but most of them were only in it because they had to be in order to work
> there.
>
> I got laid off in 1996. The plant was closed by 2000, with only a skeleton
> sales staff left over.
>

i was a heat treater and the place got sold and they got laid off with very little warning. they spaced out the layoffs, but eventually the people with the most senority were gone.

a lot of guys didn't take it so well because it was during a recession and it was almost impossible to get a job. i hit the ground running and had another job lined up but most people didn't. one guy had a kid on the way and he came in begging for handouts. The guy who trained me and knew everything became an even bigger alcoholic and just got drunk every single day and lived off unemployment until it ran out. I'm pretty sure he's dead.

On the last day I actually left early and they later told me the supervisor didn't like that and said i wouldn't be back. NOBODY was back, not even him. fuck that motherfucker.

Years later i applied at another heat treater and the guy who interviewed me was from my old job. he was an ass to me and didn't give me a shot even though i could have done the work easy. There is no real union brotherhood.

I learned at a young age to hit the ground running and work hard and keep working. When i first got into the workforce in the 90s i saw how the jobs were going away overseas. I saw the people crying because they had no future and didn't plan. they stuck it out with the company even though they knew things were in trouble.

I know a lot of these guys in bbsing work office jobs and think they are better than manufacturing people like me. They wouldn't last long mentally or physically in the stuff i've done. I've fired college boys with no common sense many times.
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-=> MRO wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

> There were still a few die-hard pro-union workers while I was still there,
> but most of them were only in it because they had to be in order to work
> there.
>
> I got laid off in 1996. The plant was closed by 2000, with only a skeleton
> sales staff left over.

<SNIP>

MR> Years later i applied at another heat treater and the guy who
MR> interviewed me was from my old job. he was an ass to me and
MR> didn't give me a shot even though i could have done the work
MR> easy. There is no real union brotherhood.

Or maybe he just knew you were a prick and didn't want you in that
company.

MR> I know a lot of these guys in bbsing work office jobs and think
MR> they are better than manufacturing people like me. They wouldn't
MR> last long mentally or physically in the stuff i've done. I've
MR> fired college boys with no common sense many times.

You make a lot of assumptions, and they're almost always wrong.

Oh, and common laborers working for barely-above-minimum-wage (like you)
don't get to fire anybody.

.... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
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> I know a lot of these guys in bbsing work office jobs and think they are
ette
> than manufacturing people like me. They wouldn't last long mentally or
hysic
> ly in the stuff i've done. I've fired college boys with no common sense many
> mes.

There is nothing wrong with manufacturing and other non-office work. Those
are the folks who are usually the ones that actually make things happen.

* SLMR 2.1a * I got everything but the part after "Now listen closely."

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Re: How far I've come...
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Wed Feb 01 2023 04:18 pm

> > I know a lot of these guys in bbsing work office jobs and think they are
> ette
> > than manufacturing people like me. They wouldn't last long mentally or
> hysic
> > ly in the stuff i've done. I've fired college boys with no common sense
> > many mes.
>
> There is nothing wrong with manufacturing and other non-office work. Those
> are the folks who are usually the ones that actually make things happen.
>

At my old job we had guys with business degrees who ran cnc and made more money than their bosses.

A lot of people look down upon manufacturing. not everyone can sit in an office. Things need to be produced. i was half office and i hated it.
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Re: How far I've come...
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Wed Feb 01 2023 05:03 pm

MR> A lot of people look down upon manufacturing. not everyone can sit in an
MR> office. Things need to be produced. i was half office and i hated it.

I don't think I've known anyone who has looked down on manufacturing. We need manufacturing in order to make/build things.

Nightfox

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Re: How far I've come...
By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed Feb 01 2023 05:15 pm

> Re: How far I've come...
> By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Wed Feb 01 2023 05:03 pm
>
> MR> A lot of people look down upon manufacturing. not everyone can sit in
> MR> an office. Things need to be produced. i was half office and i hated
> MR> it.
>
> I don't think I've known anyone who has looked down on manufacturing. We
> need manufacturing in order to make/build things.
>

oh i'm sure you have.
i'm sure you've seen i there. there's a troll here who tried to talk
shit to me about working in a warehouse.

Some of the smartest people i've known work in manufacturing and some of the dumbest people i've known work in offices.
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-=> Quoting Dumas Walker to Mro <=-

DW> There is nothing wrong with manufacturing and other non-office work.
DW> Those are the folks who are usually the ones that actually make things
DW> happen.

Without the people who actually create the product, no one else's
job would really matter would it? Once the product is manufactured,
then it moves on to the rest of the system to process (box, ship and
sell).

Cougar

.... Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

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> A lot of people look down upon manufacturing. not everyone can sit in an
ffic
> Things need to be produced. i was half office and i hated it.

Yeah, I have never figured out how people can look down on the ones that
are doing the "real" work. :)

* SLMR 2.1a * Florida bumper sticker: DON'T SHOOT! I'M LOCAL!

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> I don't think I've known anyone who has looked down on manufacturing. We
eed
> anufacturing in order to make/build things.

I think most people with sense don't think that way. I worked in an office
at a manufacturing plant for a few years, and there were a few here and
there that did look down on the floor guys as a whole. There were others
that were married to them. :)

OTOH, the way some politicians (and some of their die-hard followers) act,
I am pretty sure there are still people who look down on manufacturing, at
least certain types of it.

* SLMR 2.1a * Rate yourself as a programmer on a scale of 0 to F.

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Re: How far I've come...
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Thu Feb 02 2023 04:51 pm

> > A lot of people look down upon manufacturing. not everyone can sit in an
> ffic
> > Things need to be produced. i was half office and i hated it.
>
> Yeah, I have never figured out how people can look down on the ones that
> are doing the "real" work. :)
>
>

We had this new production manager that was danish and he refused to even talk to workers. he was very odd. in one department he wanted to observe them doing their jobs but he told them not to speak to him. this was a lean mfg guy who was going to fix everything.

All we ended up having was shitloads of meetings. one guy yawned during a meeting and he sent him in for a drug test. the guy passed it and asked why he did that. martin asked why he yawned. The worker told him he was tired because they are working long hours and weekends. He was sent home with no pay.

eventually martin the production manager was caught looking at men in the bathroom stalls. He did it to the wrong guy, someone who was there for 40 years.

Martin eventually got fired. I looked him up and he was only at his past employers for 1-2 years. With us he didn't make it 1 year. He has been doing this shit for 15 years in our country and places keep hiring him.

Now he's a director of engineering in another city. how do these people even keep getting work?
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Re: How far I've come...
By: Dumas Walker to NIGHTFOX on Thu Feb 02 2023 05:08 pm

>
> OTOH, the way some politicians (and some of their die-hard followers) act,
> I am pretty sure there are still people who look down on manufacturing, at
> least certain types of it.
>

at my old job polticians would come and visit to do a photo op. the news stories made it seem like they were there for the whole day answering questions. they were just there for minutes.
just enough time to get a buch of photos
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Re: How far I've come...
By: Cougar428 to DUMAS WALKER on Thu Feb 02 2023 09:57 am

> Without the people who actually create the product, no one else's
> job would really matter would it?

Manufacturing makes the product, logistics makes it worth something

At this point, everyone is reliant on everyone else. I'd be useless without
manufacturing/research, but they'd be wasting absurd amounts of time and
energy without proper spreadsheets and automation

I do my job, they do theirs, and we all benefit.

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Re: How far I've come...
By: Margaerynne to Cougar428 on Thu Feb 02 2023 08:31 pm

> Re: How far I've come...
> By: Cougar428 to DUMAS WALKER on Thu Feb 02 2023 09:57 am
>
> > Without the people who actually create the product, no one else's
> > job would really matter would it?
>
> Manufacturing makes the product, logistics makes it worth something
>
>
> At this point, everyone is reliant on everyone else. I'd be useless without
> manufacturing/research, but they'd be wasting absurd amounts of time and
> energy without proper spreadsheets and automation
>
> I do my job, they do theirs, and we all benefit.

that's not always the case. i worked at an old company that was like a broken record. any new people fucking hated it. customer service, buyers, you name it. They just kept doing the same shit in the same old school way and all these new people would just quit.
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> Now he's a director of engineering in another city. how do these people even
> ep getting work?

Either people don't check references, or the references lie.

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Re: How far I've come...
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Fri Feb 03 2023 03:39 pm

> > Now he's a director of engineering in another city. how do these people
> > even ep getting work?
>
> Either people don't check references, or the references lie.
>

i think all they can do is really ask a previous employer what their position is and how long they worked there.

someone can provide references, but those people would just lie for them usually, right?
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Re: How far I've come...
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Fri Feb 03 2023 05:07 pm

> Re: How far I've come...
> By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Fri Feb 03 2023 03:39 pm
>
> > > Now he's a director of engineering in another city. how do these peopl
> > > even ep getting work?
> >
> > Either people don't check references, or the references lie.
> >
>
> i think all they can do is really ask a previous employer what their positio
>
> someone can provide references, but those people would just lie for them usu

Ya, If you call a company to check on employment, they'll verify the person
worked there. I had one manager that told people to never list his home
number for a reference. A guy that left with short notice used our manager as
a reference, and our manager replied, "ya, I know that drunk. Is he still
drinking before work?" The employee in question did not drink, but it's not
a first impression you want to leave an HR person.

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-=> Quoting Margaerynne to Cougar428 <=-

> Without the people who actually create the product, no one else's
> job would really matter would it?

Ma> Manufacturing makes the product, logistics makes it worth something
Ma> At this point, everyone is reliant on everyone else. I'd be useless
Ma> without manufacturing/research, but they'd be wasting absurd amounts
Ma> of time and energy without proper spreadsheets and automation

Ma> I do my job, they do theirs, and we all benefit.

You are correct in the scheme of things of course, but I stand by
what I said. You can't put the chicken before the egg. Without the
product being made in the first place, the logistics and the rest of
the chain would not be needed.

I don't mean that in the manufacturing environment that logistics
and everything else is not needed, just that the actual people
creating the product are just as important as the rest. If I
understand you correctly - that was also your point.

Thanks!

Cougar

.... Correct me if I'm wrong, everybody else does.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

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Re: How far I've come...
By: Moondog to MRO on Sat Feb 04 2023 03:28 am

> Ya, If you call a company to check on employment, they'll verify the person
> worked there. I had one manager that told people to never list his home
> number for a reference. A guy that left with short notice used our manager
> as a reference, and our manager replied, "ya, I know that drunk. Is he
> still drinking before work?" The employee in question did not drink, but
> it's not
> a first impression you want to leave an HR person.

well he's an idiot. he can be sued for libel. or someone can just break his legs. if someone gave me a bad reference i would pay them a visit.

one time i did use a crazy friend at work as a reference and i told him jokingly to only say good thing. he like a robot said he would only tell the truth. now i screwed off at work but always got the job done in grade form. but this guy was a bit of a wingnut and i regretted using him as a reference.

now i just use my old subcontractors or i just dont fill it out. it's a stupid practice, anyways.
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Re: How far I've come...
By: Cougar428 to MARGAERYNNE on Sat Feb 04 2023 05:44 am

> -=> Quoting Margaerynne to Cougar428 <=-
>
> > Without the people who actually create the product, no one else's
> > job would really matter would it?
>
> Ma> Manufacturing makes the product, logistics makes it worth something
> Ma> At this point, everyone is reliant on everyone else. I'd be useless
> Ma> without manufacturing/research, but they'd be wasting absurd amounts
> Ma> of time and energy without proper spreadsheets and automation
>
> Ma> I do my job, they do theirs, and we all benefit.
>
> You are correct in the scheme of things of course, but I stand by
> what I said. You can't put the chicken before the egg. Without the
> product being made in the first place, the logistics and the rest of
> the chain would not be needed.
>
> I don't mean that in the manufacturing environment that logistics
> and everything else is not needed, just that the actual people
> creating the product are just as important as the rest. If I
> understand you correctly - that was also your point.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Cougar
>
>
>
> ... Correct me if I'm wrong, everybody else does.
>
> ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
>

A product needs demand from a customer base. A product is worth what the
customer is willing to pay for it. Each time some dummy shoots a bunch of
people, ammo or magazine prices go up. They eventually go up to ridiculous
prices where most people won't buy them, however the owners will persist to
gouge in the hopes someone will deviate from the norm and have to have an
item regardless of cost.

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Re: How far I've come...
By: MRO to Moondog on Sat Feb 04 2023 02:39 pm

> Re: How far I've come...
> By: Moondog to MRO on Sat Feb 04 2023 03:28 am
>
> > Ya, If you call a company to check on employment, they'll verify the pers
> > worked there. I had one manager that told people to never list his home
> > number for a reference. A guy that left with short notice used our manag
> > as a reference, and our manager replied, "ya, I know that drunk. Is he
> > still drinking before work?" The employee in question did not drink, but
> > it's not
> > a first impression you want to leave an HR person.
>
> well he's an idiot. he can be sued for libel. or someone can just break his
>
> one time i did use a crazy friend at work as a reference and i told him joki
> wingnut and i regretted using him as a reference.
>
> now i just use my old subcontractors or i just dont fill it out. it's a stu

I'm curious if an employer would inform a candidate of the name of a person
who gives them a bad reference? Let's say it's less humorous, like the guy
got fired because he disregarded a safety procedure that could've injured or
killed several people?

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Re: How far I've come...
By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Feb 05 2023 11:54 am

> > now i just use my old subcontractors or i just dont fill it out. it's a
> > stu
>
> I'm curious if an employer would inform a candidate of the name of a person
> who gives them a bad reference? Let's say it's less humorous, like the guy
> got fired because he disregarded a safety procedure that could've injured or
> killed several people?

i only know of one time where a guy was going to be hired and he wasn't because of a bad reference. The reference totally fucked over the guy in some way and he was not hired.

I don't think HR names names in these cases.
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-=> Quoting Moondog to Cougar428 <=-

Mo> A product needs demand from a customer base. A product is worth what
Mo> the customer is willing to pay for it. Each time some dummy shoots a
Mo> bunch of people, ammo or magazine prices go up. They eventually go up
Mo> to ridiculous prices where most people won't buy them, however the
Mo> owners will persist to gouge in the hopes someone will deviate from the
Mo> norm and have to have an item regardless of cost.

Kind of like when .22lr ammo was almost unobtainable - UNLESS you
wanted to pay 9mm prices.

After 3 years the price came back down. I'm just a plinker, but
ammo was a big problem for me when that was happening. I just
target shoot...

I went dry there as I would not pay what they were asking. Just my
experience and opinion.

I get what you are saying though...

Cougar

.... We're lost but we're making good time.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

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Re: How far I've come...
By: Cougar428 to MOONDOG on Tue Feb 07 2023 11:18 pm

> -=> Quoting Moondog to Cougar428 <=-
>
> Mo> A product needs demand from a customer base. A product is worth what
> Mo> the customer is willing to pay for it. Each time some dummy shoots a
> Mo> bunch of people, ammo or magazine prices go up. They eventually go up
> Mo> to ridiculous prices where most people won't buy them, however the
> Mo> owners will persist to gouge in the hopes someone will deviate from the
> Mo> norm and have to have an item regardless of cost.
>
> Kind of like when .22lr ammo was almost unobtainable - UNLESS you
> wanted to pay 9mm prices.
>
> After 3 years the price came back down. I'm just a plinker, but
> ammo was a big problem for me when that was happening. I just
> target shoot...
>
> I went dry there as I would not pay what they were asking. Just my
> experience and opinion.
>
> I get what you are saying though...
>
> Cougar
>
> ... We're lost but we're making good time.
>
> ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
>
The best way to keep shooting is so stack it high and deep when the price is
cheap. At one time I used to grab a semi brick of 550 rounds of .22 at
Walmart because their bulk price beat out any of the local gun shops. If I'm
buying a pair of socks or some shirts, I'd grab a box of .22. If I'm buying
groceries, a trick to the sporting goods counter was justifialble. Over some
time I built up a stash to shhot through and stopped picking ammo up. Prices
had jumped considerably and I wished I would've kept buying cheaper ammo.

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> After 3 years the price came back down. I'm just a plinker, but
> ammo was a big problem for me when that was happening. I just
> target shoot...

+1.

> I went dry there as I would not pay what they were asking. Just my
> experience and opinion.

Also +1. I did find some on special and bought the limit, which was not
much.

* SLMR 2.1a * Justice is lost, Justice is raped, Justice is gone.

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