Spring time is here, and I wanted to buy another hand gun, but didn't want to
spend a bundle. I stopped by the local shop, and undere the glass in the
used area was a Springfiueld XD Tactical in .40 cal. Most people prefer 9mm
or .45, but I got into .40 cal because a friend gave me all his brass he was
saving. He used to frequent a park that had a pistol range, and the rangers
would sweepe up the brass and sort it while on fire watch. He gave me close t
o 2000 spent .40 cases. I reload, so it's natural to use the free brass .

The pistol was barely used, showed little to no wear marks, and had
aftermarket tritium night sights. Not usre how old it is, or how much the
life is on the tritium paint. Anyways, the sights are good in the daylight.
The gun was priced for $299, which was hard to turn down. It came with a
nice case with a cleaning kit and two mags.

I stopped by the shop yesterday, and now there's a used full sized M&P 2.0 in
..40 in the case. I have a pre-2.0 but like the enhancements they made.
There's also an S&W SD 40 VE that looks lightly used, but maybe I'll wait
before going on a spending spree.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

-=> Moondog wrote to All <=-

Mo> Spring time is here, and I wanted to buy another hand gun, but didn't
Mo> want to spend a bundle. I stopped by the local shop, and undere the
Mo> glass in the used area was a Springfiueld XD Tactical in .40 cal. Most
Mo> people prefer 9mm or .45, but I got into .40 cal because a friend gave
Mo> me all his brass he was saving. He used to frequent a park that had a
Mo> pistol range, and the rangers would sweepe up the brass and sort it
Mo> while on fire watch. He gave me close t o 2000 spent .40 cases. I
Mo> reload, so it's natural to use the free brass .

Mo> The pistol was barely used, showed little to no wear marks, and had
Mo> aftermarket tritium night sights. Not usre how old it is, or how much
Mo> the life is on the tritium paint. Anyways, the sights are good in the
Mo> daylight. The gun was priced for $299, which was hard to turn down. It
Mo> came with a nice case with a cleaning kit and two mags.

Mo> I stopped by the shop yesterday, and now there's a used full sized M&P
Mo> 2.0 in .40 in the case. I have a pre-2.0 but like the enhancements
Mo> they made. There's also an S&W SD 40 VE that looks lightly used, but
Mo> maybe I'll wait before going on a spending spree.

I don't think you can go wrong in the short run at least - and possibly the
long run - by buying whatever you see that you like when you see it. Wife and
I have been on a bit of a buying spree lately, as we feel that the political
winds regarding gun rights are just a little too unpredictable. While we have
more states enacting some sort of constitutional carry legislation, there's an
equally powerful lobby for restricting 2A right that is tightening the grip on
blue states. Combine that with the suspicious spate of mass shootings which
seem to fit the desired narrative of the left, I fear we will be seeing federal
restrictions enacted soon.

For the above stated reason we are just grabbing everything we THINK we MIGHT
want down the road to avoid any future attempts at registration and
confiscation. I am thankful every day that I live in a strongly red state and
hope that the current legislation prohibiting local LEO from cooperating with
federal officials in anti 2A activities is strong enough to protect my rights
as a citizen.

Weatherman

.... What is mind? No matter! What is matter? Never mind! - Homer S.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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Re: Re: New purchase
By: Weatherman to Moondog on Sun May 14 2023 02:10 am

>
> I don't think you can go wrong in the short run at least - and possibly the
> long run - by buying whatever you see that you like when you see it. Wife a
> I have been on a bit of a buying spree lately, as we feel that the political
> winds regarding gun rights are just a little too unpredictable. While we ha
> more states enacting some sort of constitutional carry legislation, there's
> equally powerful lobby for restricting 2A right that is tightening the grip
> blue states. Combine that with the suspicious spate of mass shootings which
> seem to fit the desired narrative of the left, I fear we will be seeing fede
> restrictions enacted soon.
>
> For the above stated reason we are just grabbing everything we THINK we MIGH
> want down the road to avoid any future attempts at registration and
> confiscation. I am thankful every day that I live in a strongly red state a
> hope that the current legislation prohibiting local LEO from cooperating wit
> federal officials in anti 2A activities is strong enough to protect my right
> as a citizen.
>
> Weatherman

I have two lists in my head - one with "must haves" and the other is full of
"like to haves". Some items on the second list are nice, but fall into a
redundant category. Items on the first list are generally unique, or are diff
erent enough than other stuff I had.

I'm still working on stuff in the "must have" list. Awhile ago I bought a
Mossberg 590 and didn't like the stock because of length of pull issues with
the contour of the grip area. I ordered an ergo adapter that lets me use an A
R style grip and stock. It moves the grip forward enough for me to engage
the trigger and use the ghost ring sights better. I have to pad the stock/
comb better, to get better cheek position. Once thast's out of the way I'll p
robably set aside funding for the next must have item.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: New purchase
By: Weatherman to Moondog on Sun May 14 2023 02:10:00

We> For the above stated reason we are just grabbing everything we THINK we
We> MIGHT want down the road to avoid any future attempts at registration and
We> confiscation. I am thankful every day that I live in a strongly red state
We> and hope that the current legislation prohibiting local LEO from
We> cooperating with federal officials in anti 2A activities is strong enough
We> to protect my rights as a citizen.

Yeah, Arizona has gone purple, and the interest rates mean I'm unlikely to move for at least a few more years. I bought a 40mm handgun an AR-15 and a shotgun last year, don't know the specific models offhand. They're stored at a friend's in his gun safe allong with a few dozen other firearms. Mostly as an FU to the ATF when I saw they were doing checks on people purchasing more than 2 firearms at a time. I never felt a real need to own one, but I'll be damned if the govt is going to tell me I can't.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

-=> Tracker1 wrote to Weatherman <=-

Tr> Re: Re: New purchase
Tr> By: Weatherman to Moondog on Sun May 14 2023 02:10:00

We> For the above stated reason we are just grabbing everything we THINK we
We> MIGHT want down the road to avoid any future attempts at registration and
We> confiscation. I am thankful every day that I live in a strongly red state
We> and hope that the current legislation prohibiting local LEO from
We> cooperating with federal officials in anti 2A activities is strong enough
We> to protect my rights as a citizen.

Tr> Yeah, Arizona has gone purple, and the interest rates mean I'm unlikely
Tr> to move for at least a few more years. I bought a 40mm handgun an
Tr> AR-15 and a shotgun last year, don't know the specific models offhand.
Tr> They're stored at a friend's in his gun safe allong with a few dozen
Tr> other firearms. Mostly as an FU to the ATF when I saw they were doing
Tr> checks on people purchasing more than 2 firearms at a time. I never
Tr> felt a real need to own one, but I'll be damned if the govt is going to
Tr> tell me I can't.

I'm all about giving the Foxtrot Uniform to the government whenever I can.
Picked up some toys at a local gun show yesterday myself. A couple of nice .45
SAA pattern revolvers, one a 7th Cavalry 7 1/2" model commemorating the "C"
company of Custer's command. Nice finish on this, case hardened frame, barrel
and cylinder with a deep, dark blue. The other is a standard SAA 4 3/4" with
nickel plated trigger guard and backstrap. Damned nice looking piece with a
VERY dark blue finish.

That's the one I really wanted, have a holster for that length SAA and all my
others were 7 1/2" or longer. Wife had to have the 7th Calvary revolver. Both
are Ubertis, which I really like and feature a hammer mounted firing pin to add
to the appearance of an actual period piece.

On top of that, I just HAD to have a Standard Manufacturing "switch gun" in .22
WRM. I'm a sucker for any gun with a "weird factor" and this thing had it.
And for some stupid reason, wife had to have a .380 Derringer that she spotted.

Guess we over-compensated a bit at the gun show as a yard sale that was
advertising guns for sale turned out to be a bit of a bust. Nothing there we
were interested in and what they did have was priced a bit high. I actually
picked up all of the above for a FAIR price - especially considering one should
not expect bargains at a gun show. Suffice it to say I paid well below MSRP.
Of course the dealer we purchased from is one we've bought from before so they
were more willing to cut us a deal.

Don't doe as much shooting as we used to do, I guess we're mainly just building
the collection. Will be something of an inheritance....

.... The number you have dialed...Nine-one-one...has been changed.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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Re: Re: New purchase
By: Tracker1 to Weatherman on Fri Jun 16 2023 11:34:08

You got a FORTY MILLIMTER handgun?!?!

Do you mean .40 Cal?

---
■ Synchronet ■ INTERLOPER - BBS

Re: Re: New purchase
By: Xerxes to Tracker1 on Tue Jun 20 2023 09:00 pm

> Re: Re: New purchase
> By: Tracker1 to Weatherman on Fri Jun 16 2023 11:34:08
>
> You got a FORTY MILLIMTER handgun?!?!
>
> Do you mean .40 Cal?
>
I was wondering the same thing. A 40mm would be a grenade launcher :)

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

-=> Moondog wrote to Xerxes <=-

> By: Tracker1 to Weatherman on Fri Jun 16 2023 11:34:08

> You got a FORTY MILLIMTER handgun?!?!

> Do you mean .40 Cal?

Mo> I was wondering the same thing. A 40mm would be a grenade
Mo> launcher :)

What's even stranger is that the OP stated he didn't even remember the
make/model of the three guns he had recently purchased.

I can't quite process that statement. :-)

.... Strip mining prevents forest fires.
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Re: Re: New purchase
By: Gamgee to Moondog on Wed Jun 21 2023 07:18 pm

> -=> Moondog wrote to Xerxes <=-
>
> > By: Tracker1 to Weatherman on Fri Jun 16 2023 11:34:08
>
> > You got a FORTY MILLIMTER handgun?!?!
>
> > Do you mean .40 Cal?
>
> Mo> I was wondering the same thing. A 40mm would be a grenade
> Mo> launcher :)
>
> What's even stranger is that the OP stated he didn't even remember the
> make/model of the three guns he had recently purchased.
>
> I can't quite process that statement. :-)
>
>
>
> ... Strip mining prevents forest fires.

Ya, that is weird. Gun owners are generally familiar with their purchases.
It's like asking a gamer which cpu and gpu they are running in their rig. I
can only think of one exception - around y2k a friend and his wife became
preppers and he got the ok from his wife to acquire some firearms. He bought
a Bushmaster AR-15 and a Ruger 10/22. If you ask him what he has, he knows
one is an AR of some sort, and the other is .22 rifle. Smae guy can tell you
what make and model of motherboard he's using, which brand of ssd's, brand of
memory, and other precise details of the pc he built. He's a gun owner, but
not a "gun guy."

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: New purchase
By: Gamgee to Moondog on Wed Jun 21 2023 19:18:00

Ga> What's even stranger is that the OP stated he didn't even remember the
Ga> make/model of the three guns he had recently purchased.

Ga> I can't quite process that statement. :-)

Sorry on the .40mm vs .40 calibre. The handgun is a Sig, iirc something like a P32 with a red dot. The shotgun and the AR-15, I really don't recall. Will have to ask Trooper when I chat with him what it was specifically that I bought. I'd never purchased a firearm before that. And frankly didn't do much research. Again, was mostly an FU to the ATF for flagging multiple purchases at a single activity.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

Re: Re: New purchase
By: Moondog to Gamgee on Fri Jun 23 2023 14:28:00

Mo> Ya, that is weird. Gun owners are generally familiar with their purchases.
Mo> It's like asking a gamer which cpu and gpu they are running in their rig.
Mo> I can only think of one exception - around y2k a friend and his wife

I don't game much, but can tell you everything in my desktop. Until earlier this year, I had an EVGA RTX 3080 10GB card. I passed that to my kid as I hadn't been gaming with it, and wasn't using it for the AI upscaling I'd planned on. I'm currently running an RX 6600 dual fan model (XFX Swift 210).

I'm not really a gun guy... I believe I specifically mentioned I'd never purchased a gun before.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

Re: Re: New purchase
By: Tracker1 to Gamgee on Tue Jun 27 2023 11:14 pm

> Re: Re: New purchase
> By: Gamgee to Moondog on Wed Jun 21 2023 19:18:00
>
> Ga> What's even stranger is that the OP stated he didn't even remember the
> Ga> make/model of the three guns he had recently purchased.
>
> Ga> I can't quite process that statement. :-)
>
> Sorry on the .40mm vs .40 calibre. The handgun is a Sig, iirc something lik
> ased a firearm before that. And frankly didn't do much research. Again, was
>
>
> --
> Michael J. Ryan
> +o roughneckbbs.com
> tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
>
It's kind of scary when the ATF calls because you made more than one purchase
in a week's time. I understand the reason because of concern of straw
purchases.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: New purchase
By: Tracker1 to Moondog on Tue Jun 27 2023 11:17 pm

> Re: Re: New purchase
> By: Moondog to Gamgee on Fri Jun 23 2023 14:28:00
>
> Mo> Ya, that is weird. Gun owners are generally familiar with their purchas
> Mo> It's like asking a gamer which cpu and gpu they are running in their ri
> Mo> I can only think of one exception - around y2k a friend and his wife
>
> I don't game much, but can tell you everything in my desktop. Until earlier
> nning an RX 6600 dual fan model (XFX Swift 210).
>
> I'm not really a gun guy... I believe I specifically mentioned I'd never pur
>
>
> --
> Michael J. Ryan
> +o roughneckbbs.com
> tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
>
I must have missed where you said first time purchaser. It's all good, though.
You have to start somewhere, some time. I would recommend getting familiar
with your firearms, putting in some range time.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

-=> Moondog wrote to Tracker1 <=-

Mo> Re: Re: New purchase
Mo> By: Tracker1 to Gamgee on Tue Jun 27 2023 11:14 pm

>
Mo> It's kind of scary when the ATF calls because you made more than one
Mo> purchase in a week's time. I understand the reason because of concern
Mo> of straw purchases.

I've never had the ATF call me (in fact, when filling out the 4473, you are not
required to provide a phone number so how WOULD they?) when purching more than
one firearm in a week's time. Just last weekend I purchase four firearms and I
can recall weeks where I had purchased six firearms.

Maybe I've just been lucky? I should be so lucky when I buy a lottery ticket!

.... Wherever you go, there you are!
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Re: Re: New purchase
By: Weatherman to Moondog on Sat Jul 01 2023 01:42 am

> -=> Moondog wrote to Tracker1 <=-
>
> Mo> Re: Re: New purchase
> Mo> By: Tracker1 to Gamgee on Tue Jun 27 2023 11:14 pm
>
> >
> Mo> It's kind of scary when the ATF calls because you made more than one
> Mo> purchase in a week's time. I understand the reason because of concern
> Mo> of straw purchases.
>
> I've never had the ATF call me (in fact, when filling out the 4473, you are
> required to provide a phone number so how WOULD they?) when purching more th
> one firearm in a week's time. Just last weekend I purchase four firearms an
> can recall weeks where I had purchased six firearms.
>
> Maybe I've just been lucky? I should be so lucky when I buy a lottery ticke
>
>
> ... Wherever you go, there you are!

The FFL holder is required by the ATF to inform them if a buy
er purchases multiple firearms within a week or two . The ATF will take the
address infromation then investigate whether the buyer is performing straw
purchase.

The agents will come to the buyer's house and want to see that they have the
firearms in their possession (haven't sold or given them to anybody.) I have
spoken to people that have been contacted by the ATF (by mail) to inform them
the FFL sent them the purchase information, but haven't met anyone who has
been visited by them.

Not sure if luck plays into it. It may be more dependent on how busy the loca
l ATF agent is, or the firearms in question whether they fit a profile.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

-=> Moondog wrote to Weatherman <=-

Mo> Re: Re: New purchase
Mo> By: Weatherman to Moondog on Sat Jul 01 2023 01:42 am

> -=> Moondog wrote to Tracker1 <=-
>

Mo> The FFL holder is required by the ATF to inform them if a buy
Mo> er purchases multiple firearms within a week or two . The ATF will
Mo> take the address infromation then investigate whether the buyer is
Mo> performing straw purchase.
I repeat. I have never... EVER been contacted by BATF for any reason
whatsoever, and I have purchased in excess of two fireams within a week (hell,
on the same DAY - and yes, from the same FFL) on multiple occassions.

Mo> The agents will come to the buyer's house and want to see that they
Mo> have the firearms in their possession (haven't sold or given them to
Mo> anybody.) I have spoken to people that have been contacted by the ATF
Mo> (by mail) to inform them the FFL sent them the purchase information,
Mo> but haven't met anyone who has been visited by them.
Any BATF agent that shows up unannounced on my doorstep had better have a
warrant. No warrant, no entry, it's as simple as that. It's called the Fourth
Amendment to the US Constitution.

Mo> Not sure if luck plays into it. It may be more dependent on how busy
Mo> the loca l ATF agent is, or the firearms in question whether they fit a
Mo> profile.

Doubt if luck has anything to do with it. Multiple purchases in a specified
period of time does NOT constitute reasonable cause to assume straw purchases.
Without reasonable cause, the BATF will be unable to obtain a search warrant.
Without a search warrant, the BATF has no enforceable right to search, seizure
or interview.

.... The best way to accelerate a Mac is at 9.8m/s^2
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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Re: Re: New purchase
By: Weatherman to Moondog on Sun Jul 02 2023 01:31 am

> -=> Moondog wrote to Weatherman <=-
>
> Mo> Re: Re: New purchase
> Mo> By: Weatherman to Moondog on Sat Jul 01 2023 01:42 am
>
> > -=> Moondog wrote to Tracker1 <=-
> >
>
> Mo> The FFL holder is required by the ATF to inform them if a buy
> Mo> er purchases multiple firearms within a week or two . The ATF will
> Mo> take the address infromation then investigate whether the buyer is
> Mo> performing straw purchase.
>
> I repeat. I have never... EVER been contacted by BATF for any reason
> whatsoever, and I have purchased in excess of two fireams within a week (hel
> on the same DAY - and yes, from the same FFL) on multiple occassions.
>
> Mo> The agents will come to the buyer's house and want to see that they
> Mo> have the firearms in their possession (haven't sold or given them to
> Mo> anybody.) I have spoken to people that have been contacted by the ATF
> Mo> (by mail) to inform them the FFL sent them the purchase information,
> Mo> but haven't met anyone who has been visited by them.
>
> Any BATF agent that shows up unannounced on my doorstep had better have a
> warrant. No warrant, no entry, it's as simple as that. It's called the Fou
> Amendment to the US Constitution.
>
> Mo> Not sure if luck plays into it. It may be more dependent on how busy
> Mo> the loca l ATF agent is, or the firearms in question whether they fit a
> Mo> profile.
>
> Doubt if luck has anything to do with it. Multiple purchases in a specified
> period of time does NOT constitute reasonable cause to assume straw purchase
> Without reasonable cause, the BATF will be unable to obtain a search warrant
> Without a search warrant, the BATF has no enforceable right to search, seizu
> or interview.
>
>
> ... The best way to accelerate a Mac is at 9.8m/s^2

I have only heard of this a couple of months ago, when someone posted a
video on youtube showing two atf agents and a state trooper showing up at his
house. He didn't let them in and kept an eye on them (state trooper's behavio
r was sketchy.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFE9Yl2X57A&t=218s

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: New purchase
By: Moondog to Tracker1 on Thu Jun 29 2023 09:14:00

Mo> I must have missed where you said first time purchaser. It's all good,
Mo> though.
Mo> You have to start somewhere, some time. I would recommend getting familiar
Mo> with your firearms, putting in some range time.

Usually do a couple half days a year at the range. One of my best friends is a heavy gun advocate, so would usually just use his. Have done a couple teardowns, but really not *that* into it as a whole. I'm also not storing them in my home, mostly because I've had depressive bouts in the past.

Mostly just exercising my rights. I've become very libertarian minded over the years.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

Re: Re: New purchase
By: Weatherman to Moondog on Sun Jul 02 2023 01:31:00

We> Doubt if luck has anything to do with it. Multiple purchases in a
We> specified period of time does NOT constitute reasonable cause to assume
We> straw purchases. Without reasonable cause, the BATF will be unable to
We> obtain a search warrant. Without a search warrant, the BATF has no
We> enforceable right to search, seizure or interview.

I doubt it's a matter of luck either... likely a very small number of people are ever interviewed. There may also be other flags, and correlated information.

As to the latter part, they don't need a warrant to knock on your door and ask you anything. You simply aren't required to let them search without a warrant. As to cause, red tape, policy, etc is generally enough. Especially in states with red flag laws and the like.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

---
■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com

Re: Re: New purchase
By: Tracker1 to Moondog on Tue Jul 04 2023 03:25 pm

> Re: Re: New purchase
> By: Moondog to Tracker1 on Thu Jun 29 2023 09:14:00
>
> Mo> I must have missed where you said first time purchaser. It's all good,
> Mo> though.
> Mo> You have to start somewhere, some time. I would recommend getting famil
> Mo> with your firearms, putting in some range time.
>
> Usually do a couple half days a year at the range. One of my best friends i
> use I've had depressive bouts in the past.
>
> Mostly just exercising my rights. I've become very libertarian minded over
>
>
> --
> Michael J. Ryan
> +o roughneckbbs.com
> tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
>

Depression sucks. I have had times where I didn't feel like I had enough
energy or things seemed like they were out of my control. I don't consider
myself as being religious, however I feel my faith has saved me from some
trying times.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: New purchase
By: Tracker1 to Weatherman on Tue Jul 04 2023 03:29 pm

> Re: Re: New purchase
> By: Weatherman to Moondog on Sun Jul 02 2023 01:31:00
>
> We> Doubt if luck has anything to do with it. Multiple purchases in a
> We> specified period of time does NOT constitute reasonable cause to assume
> We> straw purchases. Without reasonable cause, the BATF will be unable to
> We> obtain a search warrant. Without a search warrant, the BATF has no
> We> enforceable right to search, seizure or interview.
>
> I doubt it's a matter of luck either... likely a very small number of people
>
> As to the latter part, they don't need a warrant to knock on your door and a
> s and the like.
>
>
> --
> Michael J. Ryan
> +o roughneckbbs.com
> tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
>

Yeah, there's not much the ATF can do without a warrant. Regarding the video
I shared, the state trooper that tagged along with the ATF agents wasn't as calm
as the agents were with regards to approaching the house.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

-=> Tracker1 wrote to Weatherman <=-

Tr> Re: Re: New purchase
Tr> By: Weatherman to Moondog on Sun Jul 02 2023 01:31:00

We> Doubt if luck has anything to do with it. Multiple purchases in a
We> specified period of time does NOT constitute reasonable cause to assume
We> straw purchases. Without reasonable cause, the BATF will be unable to
We> obtain a search warrant. Without a search warrant, the BATF has no
We> enforceable right to search, seizure or interview.

Tr> I doubt it's a matter of luck either... likely a very small number of
Tr> people are ever interviewed. There may also be other flags, and
Tr> correlated information.

Tr> As to the latter part, they don't need a warrant to knock on your door
Tr> and ask you anything. You simply aren't required to let them search
Tr> without a warrant. As to cause, red tape, policy, etc is generally
Tr> enough. Especially in states with red flag laws and the like.

I didn't say they couldn't come up to my door and ask questions. I said they
had no ENFORCEABLE RIGHT to search or interview. I, however, DO have an
enforceable right to demand they leave my property and not return unless and
until they have a warrant. In this country the government does NOT have
rights, the people do.

It's about damned time people started remembering that.

.... DalekDOS v(overflow): (I)Obey (V)ision impaired (E)xterminate
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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Re: Re: New purchase
By: Weatherman to Tracker1 on Sat Jul 08 2023 04:50 pm

> -=> Tracker1 wrote to Weatherman <=-
>
> Tr> Re: Re: New purchase
> Tr> By: Weatherman to Moondog on Sun Jul 02 2023 01:31:00
>
> We> Doubt if luck has anything to do with it. Multiple purchases in a
> We> specified period of time does NOT constitute reasonable cause to assume
> We> straw purchases. Without reasonable cause, the BATF will be unable to
> We> obtain a search warrant. Without a search warrant, the BATF has no
> We> enforceable right to search, seizure or interview.
>
> Tr> I doubt it's a matter of luck either... likely a very small number of
> Tr> people are ever interviewed. There may also be other flags, and
> Tr> correlated information.
>
> Tr> As to the latter part, they don't need a warrant to knock on your door
> Tr> and ask you anything. You simply aren't required to let them search
> Tr> without a warrant. As to cause, red tape, policy, etc is generally
> Tr> enough. Especially in states with red flag laws and the like.
>
> I didn't say they couldn't come up to my door and ask questions. I said the
> had no ENFORCEABLE RIGHT to search or interview. I, however, DO have an
> enforceable right to demand they leave my property and not return unless and
> until they have a warrant. In this country the government does NOT have
> rights, the people do.
>
> It's about damned time people started remembering that.
>
>
>
> ... DalekDOS v(overflow): (I)Obey (V)ision impaired (E)xterminate

Looks like we're all in agreement here. No warrant, no search. If they ask
you to show them the guns that you supposedly bought for your self and you
tell them to pound sand, they're most likely to accomodate you and get a warra
nt.

Law enforcement in general uses their authority and badge to get their way,
especially when they have little or no power. It is up to the person to
stand their ground and hold them liable for their actions. They're trying to
do their jobs, yet aren't afraid to use a person's ignorance of the law to do
so.

I live in Michigan, and the Indiana border is 14 miles away. In Michigan you
are not required to show an officer your ID unless you're being detained, but
in Indiana it is required regardless. It's important to know the laws in
each state if you travel over the border on a regular basis.

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