On 6/24/22 14:10, Dumas Walker wrote:
>
> Exactly. I may not have worded it exactly right. I think they
> believe that law abiding citizens having guns means there are more
> guns out there for law breaking persons to have access to
> (whilebreaking the law). Their belief is that we should be willing
> to give up our guns, or at least have ours all registered, tracked,
> and restricted (as to what we can own) so that criminals cannot get
> their hands on them. <rollseyes>

Realistically, if they *REALLY* wanted to cut down on gun violence,
they'd be trying to outlaw handguns, not rifles (AR-15 etc) to begin
with. The vast majority of gun violence and gun related crimes (armed
robbery, etc) is done with a handgun... but those aren't the ones that
typically make the headlines and are exceedingly rare.

Note: this is not an endorsement of the idea, just pointing out the
ignorance and hypocrisy.
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
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On 6/25/22 09:35, Moondog wrote:
>
> It can be a mixed bag. The other day someone was buying handguns for
> he and his wife. Hios wife works in a marijuana dispensary and
> handles large sums of cash, and was asking if open carry might be
> preferable over concealed carry, which would take longer to get a
> permit.
>
> I told them a visible firearm is like a flashlight in a dark room.
> You can see your enemies, but they can see you have a flashlight.
> While it should discourage bad actors, it also singles you out as the
> biggest threat to take out first. Concealed carry keeps everybody
> guessing. And polite.

Unfortunately, as long as marijuana is federally illegal, any and all
crimes that may occur at a dispensary would likely involve charges
against anyone carrying firearms, including store personnel. Here in
AZ, security is often outside the building, or in an entry area
technically separate from the store area for this reason.

Firearms + Scheduled drugs == increased federal penalties.
--
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Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Tracker1 to Dumas Walker on Thu Jul 07 2022 01:36 pm

> On 6/24/22 14:10, Dumas Walker wrote:
> >
> > Exactly. I may not have worded it exactly right. I think they
> > believe that law abiding citizens having guns means there are more
> > guns out there for law breaking persons to have access to
> > (whilebreaking the law). Their belief is that we should be willing
> > to give up our guns, or at least have ours all registered, tracked,
> > and restricted (as to what we can own) so that criminals cannot get
> > their hands on them. <rollseyes>
>
> Realistically, if they *REALLY* wanted to cut down on gun violence,
> they'd be trying to outlaw handguns, not rifles (AR-15 etc) to begin
> with. The vast majority of gun violence and gun related crimes (armed
> robbery, etc) is done with a handgun... but those aren't the ones that
> typically make the headlines and are exceedingly rare.
>
> Note: this is not an endorsement of the idea, just pointing out the
> ignorance and hypocrisy.
> --
> Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
>

Even in the orgianl language of the NFA act of 1934, handguns were intended to
be banned. The problem was even most folk who say they are anti-gun
wouldn't mind owning a handgun to be kept by their bed. An analogy is razor
blades are safer than axes even though it's easier to hide a razor blade and
they can do their of damage if they slice a major artery.

---
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Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Tracker1 to Moondog on Thu Jul 07 2022 01:40 pm

> On 6/25/22 09:35, Moondog wrote:
> >
> > It can be a mixed bag. The other day someone was buying handguns for
> > he and his wife. Hios wife works in a marijuana dispensary and
> > handles large sums of cash, and was asking if open carry might be
> > preferable over concealed carry, which would take longer to get a
> > permit.
> >
> > I told them a visible firearm is like a flashlight in a dark room.
> > You can see your enemies, but they can see you have a flashlight.
> > While it should discourage bad actors, it also singles you out as the
> > biggest threat to take out first. Concealed carry keeps everybody
> > guessing. And polite.
>
> Unfortunately, as long as marijuana is federally illegal, any and all
> crimes that may occur at a dispensary would likely involve charges
> against anyone carrying firearms, including store personnel. Here in
> AZ, security is often outside the building, or in an entry area
> technically separate from the store area for this reason.
>
> Firearms + Scheduled drugs == increased federal penalties.
> --
> Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
>

That may be the case in a civil suit, however there's little or no chances of
a person comitting armed robbery on a dispensary being treated as a
victim.

---
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> Realistically, if they *REALLY* wanted to cut down on gun violence,
> they'd be trying to outlaw handguns, not rifles (AR-15 etc) to begin
> with. The vast majority of gun violence and gun related crimes (armed
> robbery, etc) is done with a handgun... but those aren't the ones that
> typically make the headlines and are exceedingly rare.

> Note: this is not an endorsement of the idea, just pointing out the
> ignorance and hypocrisy.

Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a "mass
shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed each day by
handguns.

* SLMR 2.1a * If all appears to go well, you missed something...

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-=> Dumas Walker wrote to TRACKER1 <=-

> Realistically, if they *REALLY* wanted to cut down on gun violence,
> they'd be trying to outlaw handguns, not rifles (AR-15 etc) to begin
> with. The vast majority of gun violence and gun related crimes (armed
> robbery, etc) is done with a handgun... but those aren't the ones that
> typically make the headlines and are exceedingly rare.

> Note: this is not an endorsement of the idea, just pointing out the
> ignorance and hypocrisy.

DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a
DW> "mass shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed
DW> each day by handguns.

Definitely true. Chicago probably tops that list. The city with the
strictest gun laws anywhere. What they forget is that criminals don't
obey laws.

.... The world is full of surprises, very few of which are pleasant.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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> DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a
> DW> "mass shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed
> DW> each day by handguns.

> Definitely true. Chicago probably tops that list. The city with the
> strictest gun laws anywhere. What they forget is that criminals don't
> obey laws.

I really don't understand how someone like me can explain that to someone
who seems to be able to follow logic and seems to be resonably intelligent,
yet they won't understand it. IMHO, some of them just think that guns are
scary and we are better off with less of them, but the "criminals don't
obey laws" logic should be equally as scary.

* SLMR 2.1a * Bureaucrats cut red tape--lengthwise.

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-=> Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

> DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a
> DW> "mass shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed
> DW> each day by handguns.

> Definitely true. Chicago probably tops that list. The city with the
> strictest gun laws anywhere. What they forget is that criminals don't
> obey laws.

DW> I really don't understand how someone like me can explain that to
DW> someone who seems to be able to follow logic and seems to be
DW> resonably intelligent, yet they won't understand it. IMHO, some
DW> of them just think that guns are scary and we are better off with
DW> less of them, but the "criminals don't obey laws" logic should be
DW> equally as scary.

Yes, it should be just as scary. What I honestly think is that those
who think more gun laws will fix the problem is that they actually are
NOT interested in fixing the real problem. What they are interested
in doing is increasing the amount of control that they can have over
another group of people. It's really very petty and selfish, but that's
the actual truth.

The real problem is mental health, and the fact that so many are not
able to get treatment for their issues.

Gun contol laws are *PROVEN* to be ineffective, and the so called "red
flag" laws that the same people want were *JUST* proven to be equally as
useless, right there in Highland Park, Illinois. It was a textbook
example case of complete failure.

.... Vote Democrat. It's easier than thinking!
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> DW> resonably intelligent, yet they won't understand it. IMHO, some
> DW> of them just think that guns are scary and we are better off with
> DW> less of them, but the "criminals don't obey laws" logic should be
> DW> equally as scary.

> Yes, it should be just as scary. What I honestly think is that those
> who think more gun laws will fix the problem is that they actually are
> NOT interested in fixing the real problem. What they are interested
> in doing is increasing the amount of control that they can have over
> another group of people. It's really very petty and selfish, but that's
> the actual truth.

No doubt, that is certainly true of the politicians who claim that more
laws will fix the problem. I was thinking more in terms of the voters.

> The real problem is mental health, and the fact that so many are not
> able to get treatment for their issues.

Yes. I also think there is some disconnect going on with our society. It
used to be, when asked in school what they want to be when they grow up,
younger people would mention some profession. Supposedly, now they are
more likely to want to "be famous." If a kid who wants to be famous is
also one that does not see much hope in life, being famous by doing
something stupid, whether it be drinking bleach on Tik-Tok or shooting up a
school, somehow seems OK to them.

> Gun contol laws are *PROVEN* to be ineffective, and the so called "red
> flag" laws that the same people want were *JUST* proven to be equally as
> useless, right there in Highland Park, Illinois. It was a textbook
> example case of complete failure.

There have been several shooters this year that "were on (some law
enforcement agency's) radar" but yet were not seen as enough of a threat to
do anything about until it was too late. A family member has an issue with
a stalker. The stalker, after doing a drive-by at their house, apparently
murdered someone in another part of town and got caught for that. The
family member was worried about them being released on house arrest to
await trial. I told them to phone in a tip and suggest the shooter was a
member of the January 6 mob as that seems to be the only thing that these
law enforcement groups care about. Otherwise, you are not enough of a
threat.

* SLMR 2.1a * Make headlines! Use a corduroy pillow.

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-=> Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

> DW> resonably intelligent, yet they won't understand it. IMHO, some
> DW> of them just think that guns are scary and we are better off with
> DW> less of them, but the "criminals don't obey laws" logic should be
> DW> equally as scary.

> Yes, it should be just as scary. What I honestly think is that those
> who think more gun laws will fix the problem is that they actually are
> NOT interested in fixing the real problem. What they are interested
> in doing is increasing the amount of control that they can have over
> another group of people. It's really very petty and selfish, but that's
> the actual truth.

DW> No doubt, that is certainly true of the politicians who claim
DW> that more laws will fix the problem. I was thinking more in
DW> terms of the voters.

Well, I think the voters who vote for such politicians are exactly the
same. They see the passage of any "gun control" legislation as a
"victory" for themselves, as in they feel like they have gained some
control over their fellow citizens who don't feel the same way they do.

> The real problem is mental health, and the fact that so many are not
> able to get treatment for their issues.

DW> Yes. I also think there is some disconnect going on with our
DW> society. It used to be, when asked in school what they want to
DW> be when they grow up, younger people would mention some
DW> profession. Supposedly, now they are more likely to want to "be
DW> famous." If a kid who wants to be famous is also one that does
DW> not see much hope in life, being famous by doing something
DW> stupid, whether it be drinking bleach on Tik-Tok or shooting up a
DW> school, somehow seems OK to them.

Wow, hadn't even considered that but it makes perfect sense now that you
mention it. What a sad thing that is.

> Gun contol laws are *PROVEN* to be ineffective, and the so called "red
> flag" laws that the same people want were *JUST* proven to be equally as
> useless, right there in Highland Park, Illinois. It was a textbook
> example case of complete failure.

DW> There have been several shooters this year that "were on (some
DW> law enforcement agency's) radar" but yet were not seen as enough
DW> of a threat to do anything about until it was too late. A family
DW> member has an issue with a stalker. The stalker, after doing a
DW> drive-by at their house, apparently murdered someone in another
DW> part of town and got caught for that. The family member was
DW> worried about them being released on house arrest to await trial.
DW> I told them to phone in a tip and suggest the shooter was a
DW> member of the January 6 mob as that seems to be the only thing
DW> that these law enforcement groups care about. Otherwise, you are
DW> not enough of a threat.

True enough. There are some (many) "mainstream media" outlets that have
shown little else than that issue (Jan 6th) on their daily broadcasts
recently. I mean like all day, with only brief intermissions for any
other news they might think advances their agenda also. It has become
so obvious that these organizations are no longer "news" agencies, but
have become the public relations arm of the masters that they serve.
Generally all of them are in the liberal/Democrat camp. Pathetic.

.... Apathy Error: Strike any key...or none, for that matter.
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Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Gamgee to Dumas Walker on Sun Jul 10 2022 07:27 pm

> -=> Dumas Walker wrote to TRACKER1 <=-
>
> > Realistically, if they *REALLY* wanted to cut down on gun violence,
> > they'd be trying to outlaw handguns, not rifles (AR-15 etc) to begin
> > with. The vast majority of gun violence and gun related crimes (armed
> > robbery, etc) is done with a handgun... but those aren't the ones that
> > typically make the headlines and are exceedingly rare.
>
> > Note: this is not an endorsement of the idea, just pointing out the
> > ignorance and hypocrisy.
>
> DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a
> DW> "mass shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed
> DW> each day by handguns.
>
> Definitely true. Chicago probably tops that list. The city with the
> strictest gun laws anywhere. What they forget is that criminals don't
> obey laws.
>
>
>
> ... The world is full of surprises, very few of which are pleasant.

Chicago blames northwest Indiana towns such as South Bend for the guns in
chicago. Granted, South Bend has it's own troubles, however the streets do
not flow with blood like Chicago's mayor would make you belive.

---
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Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Gamgee to Dumas Walker on Mon Jul 11 2022 09:47 pm

> -=> Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-
>
> > DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a
> > DW> "mass shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed
> > DW> each day by handguns.
>
> > Definitely true. Chicago probably tops that list. The city with the
> > strictest gun laws anywhere. What they forget is that criminals don't
> > obey laws.
>
> DW> I really don't understand how someone like me can explain that to
> DW> someone who seems to be able to follow logic and seems to be
> DW> resonably intelligent, yet they won't understand it. IMHO, some
> DW> of them just think that guns are scary and we are better off with
> DW> less of them, but the "criminals don't obey laws" logic should be
> DW> equally as scary.
>
> Yes, it should be just as scary. What I honestly think is that those
> who think more gun laws will fix the problem is that they actually are
> NOT interested in fixing the real problem. What they are interested
> in doing is increasing the amount of control that they can have over
> another group of people. It's really very petty and selfish, but that's
> the actual truth.
>
> The real problem is mental health, and the fact that so many are not
> able to get treatment for their issues.
>
> Gun contol laws are *PROVEN* to be ineffective, and the so called "red
> flag" laws that the same people want were *JUST* proven to be equally as
> useless, right there in Highland Park, Illinois. It was a textbook
> example case of complete failure.
>
>
> ... Vote Democrat. It's easier than thinking!

It goes well beyond mental health. Crazy people are a minority of
shooters when compared to organized crime and gang murders. What happened to
the beliefs that life has value?

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-=> Moondog wrote to Gamgee <=-

> The real problem is mental health, and the fact that so many are not
> able to get treatment for their issues.
>
> Gun contol laws are *PROVEN* to be ineffective, and the so called "red
> flag" laws that the same people want were *JUST* proven to be equally as
> useless, right there in Highland Park, Illinois. It was a textbook
> example case of complete failure.

Mo> It goes well beyond mental health. Crazy people are a minority
Mo> of shooters when compared to organized crime and gang murders.

No argument there. I may have been thinking more along the lines of
"school shooters" when I said that. In that sub-category, I think the
crazies dominate.

Mo> What happened to the beliefs that life has value?

I wish I knew. Certainly seem to have gone missing.

.... It's a chain saw. I always carry one for emergencies.
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> Chicago blames northwest Indiana towns such as South Bend for the guns in
> chicago. Granted, South Bend has it's own troubles, however the streets do
> not flow with blood like Chicago's mayor would make you belive.

During a trip through NW Indiana last fall, I saw a whole bunch of
fireworks stores. I only saw one or two gun stores. This was on US 41 and
US 12, just outside of Chicago and beyond to Michigan City.

* SLMR 2.1a * "End of quote. Repeat the line." - Biden Words of Wisdom

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> Mo> It goes well beyond mental health. Crazy people are a minority
> Mo> of shooters when compared to organized crime and gang murders.

> No argument there. I may have been thinking more along the lines of
> "school shooters" when I said that. In that sub-category, I think the
> crazies dominate.

Until the urge to become famous because so prevalent, I think a lot of
these mass shooter kids would have been the ones that committed suicide
when I was high school aged. Now they shoot a bunch of other people first.

* SLMR 2.1a * "End of quote. Repeat the line." - Biden Words of Wisdom

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Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Dumas Walker to GAMGEE on Thu Jul 14 2022 04:14 pm

> > No argument there. I may have been thinking more along the lines of
> > "school shooters" when I said that. In that sub-category, I think the
> > crazies dominate.
>
> Until the urge to become famous because so prevalent, I think a lot of
> these mass shooter kids would have been the ones that committed suicide
> when I was high school aged. Now they shoot a bunch of other people first.
>

If I found my school was ruining my life to the point I wanted to die, then
setting the school on fire with everybody who I thought was ruining my life
inside would look reasonable. Perpretators of school massacres have this
tendency to kill themselves as a final act of victory too: they kill themselves
so society is deprived of the delight of keeping on hurting them.

The fact there is so much school violence should point out the fact that
schools are structured as stressful places in which people is broken past the
point of no return. I never see anybody talking about this.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

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-=> Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

> Mo> It goes well beyond mental health. Crazy people are a minority
> Mo> of shooters when compared to organized crime and gang murders.

> No argument there. I may have been thinking more along the lines of
> "school shooters" when I said that. In that sub-category, I think the
> crazies dominate.

DW> Until the urge to become famous because so prevalent, I think a
DW> lot of these mass shooter kids would have been the ones that
DW> committed suicide when I was high school aged. Now they shoot a
DW> bunch of other people first.

Yup. :-(

.... The future's uncertain, the end is always near.
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Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Dumas Walker to MOONDOG on Thu Jul 14 2022 04:13 pm

> > Chicago blames northwest Indiana towns such as South Bend for the guns in
> > chicago. Granted, South Bend has it's own troubles, however the streets d
> > not flow with blood like Chicago's mayor would make you belive.
>
> During a trip through NW Indiana last fall, I saw a whole bunch of
> fireworks stores. I only saw one or two gun stores. This was on US 41 and
> US 12, just outside of Chicago and beyond to Michigan City.
>
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * "End of quote. Repeat the line." - Biden Words of Wisdom
>
I used to shop at Kempf's in Micigan City. Then there's Cabela's in Hammond.
I recall there was some dude in Michigan City had a milsurp/ prepper/ gun
shop for awhile, then he lost his FFL. He still sold tactical gear, preps
and AR parts, but no lower recievers.

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Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Arelor to Dumas Walker on Thu Jul 14 2022 06:38 pm

> Re: Re: Gun Insurance
> By: Dumas Walker to GAMGEE on Thu Jul 14 2022 04:14 pm
>
> > > No argument there. I may have been thinking more along the lines of
> > > "school shooters" when I said that. In that sub-category, I think the
> > > crazies dominate.
> >
> > Until the urge to become famous because so prevalent, I think a lot of
> > these mass shooter kids would have been the ones that committed suicide
> > when I was high school aged. Now they shoot a bunch of other people firs
> >
>
> If I found my school was ruining my life to the point I wanted to die, then
> setting the school on fire with everybody who I thought was ruining my life
> inside would look reasonable. Perpretators of school massacres have this
> tendency to kill themselves as a final act of victory too: they kill themsel
> so society is deprived of the delight of keeping on hurting them.
>
> The fact there is so much school violence should point out the fact that
> schools are structured as stressful places in which people is broken past th
> point of no return. I never see anybody talking about this.
>
> --
> gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
>
I was a misfit in school, and had my share of friends I thought were my
friends. I had real friends as well, but very few. I was smart, but didn't
fall in with the popular cliques, and found myself the target of being
bullied and picked on by older kids. Nice thing about the few friends I had
was they had me covered. Instead of being singled out in a hallway, a jerk
wouldn't bother me if there was someone else with me.

While I hated being treated like crap by bullies, I never had thoughts of
killing anyone. Coming back later in life and making them miserable sounded
more fun. For a millisecond I entertained the thought of burning down the
school. I never would do such a thing, but I realized if i burned it down,
another school would be built or the cliques and other BS in schools would be
relocated elsewhere.

---
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Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Gamgee to Dumas Walker on Thu Jul 14 2022 08:19 pm

> -=> Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-
>
> > Mo> It goes well beyond mental health. Crazy people are a minority
> > Mo> of shooters when compared to organized crime and gang murders.
>
> > No argument there. I may have been thinking more along the lines of
> > "school shooters" when I said that. In that sub-category, I think the
> > crazies dominate.
>
> DW> Until the urge to become famous because so prevalent, I think a
> DW> lot of these mass shooter kids would have been the ones that
> DW> committed suicide when I was high school aged. Now they shoot a
> DW> bunch of other people first.
>
> Yup. :-(
>
>
>
> ... The future's uncertain, the end is always near.

I get the impression that comitting suicide in this case would not
necessarily be about ending it all, but more for the attention factor. When
the person ends it all, they're hoping for the people that didin't notice
them to suddenly wish they knew them, or think they could have stopped this
is they had only reached out. Some of that remorse will happen, then soon
disappear. Other kids will fall under the radar and no one will make a
change.

Going out in a blaze of "glory" garners way more attention. Leave behind a
note or a manifesto, and it will be on the news regardless how poorly written
or illogical it is.

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> If I found my school was ruining my life to the point I wanted to die, then
> setting the school on fire with everybody who I thought was ruining my life
> inside would look reasonable. Perpretators of school massacres have this
> tendency to kill themselves as a final act of victory too: they kill themselve
> so society is deprived of the delight of keeping on hurting them.

> The fact there is so much school violence should point out the fact that
> schools are structured as stressful places in which people is broken past the
> point of no return. I never see anybody talking about this.

In the case of the Uvalde school shooter, and some others also, they are
not students at the school they shoot up. The Uvalde shooter picked a
school with kids several years younger than he in attendance. I am not
even sure he was still in school but, if he was, it would have been a high
school where kids close to his age attended.

* SLMR 2.1a * Tell me, is something eluding you, Sunshine?

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Re: Re: Gun Insurance
By: Dumas Walker to ARELOR on Fri Jul 15 2022 03:06 pm

> > If I found my school was ruining my life to the point I wanted to die, the
> > setting the school on fire with everybody who I thought was ruining my lif
> > inside would look reasonable. Perpretators of school massacres have this
> > tendency to kill themselves as a final act of victory too: they kill thems
> > so society is deprived of the delight of keeping on hurting them.
>
> > The fact there is so much school violence should point out the fact that
> > schools are structured as stressful places in which people is broken past
> > point of no return. I never see anybody talking about this.
>
> In the case of the Uvalde school shooter, and some others also, they are
> not students at the school they shoot up. The Uvalde shooter picked a
> school with kids several years younger than he in attendance. I am not
> even sure he was still in school but, if he was, it would have been a high
> school where kids close to his age attended.
>
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * Tell me, is something eluding you, Sunshine?
>
He was in high school. From what I read, he was an outcast with a learning di
sability and was picked on and had no friends. He had a frined he used to
hang out with until the kid's family moved away. He was in his senior year,
and the school would place pictures of the seniors on the light poles in
town. Somehow his picture was left out. He received teasing about that as
well. Sounds liek the kid had a shitty time in school, but that only
explains why he might have snapped, but doesn't excuse it. he proabably
picked the elementary school because it was an easy target.

---
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-=> Dumas Walker wrote to TRACKER1 <=-

DW> @MSGID: <62CB22A4.2278.dove-gun@capitolcityonline.net>
DW> @REPLY: <62C743E1.722.dove-firearms@roughneckbbs.com>
DW> @TZ: c12c
> Realistically, if they *REALLY* wanted to cut down on gun violence,
> they'd be trying to outlaw handguns, not rifles (AR-15 etc) to begin
> with. The vast majority of gun violence and gun related crimes (armed
> robbery, etc) is done with a handgun... but those aren't the ones that
> typically make the headlines and are exceedingly rare.

> Note: this is not an endorsement of the idea, just pointing out the
> ignorance and hypocrisy.

DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a "mass
DW> shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed each day by
DW> handguns.

Suffice it to say more people are killed by handguns each year than by rifles
of any time.

Suicides account for more firearms related deaths each year than any other.
Rifles of any type are seldom utilized in suicide attempts.

The problem is not the gun. The problem is the cheapening of human life. The
cheapening of human life is a direct reflection of the society in which we
live.

Regards....

.... The best way to accelerate a Mac is at 9.8m/s^2
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-=> Dumas Walker wrote to GAMGEE <=-

> DW> Yes, this is true. There are some cities that probably have a
> DW> "mass shootings" worth of people, and then some, shot and killed
> DW> each day by handguns.

> Definitely true. Chicago probably tops that list. The city with the
> strictest gun laws anywhere. What they forget is that criminals don't
> obey laws.

DW> I really don't understand how someone like me can explain that to
DW> someone who seems to be able to follow logic and seems to be resonably
DW> intelligent, yet they won't understand it. IMHO, some of them just
DW> think that guns are scary and we are better off with less of them, but
DW> the "criminals don't obey laws" logic should be equally as scary.

The plain and simple truth of the matter is this. Firearms (of ANY type) are
inert, inanimate objects. In and of themselves, they are incapable of any
actions including actions of criminal and violent intent.

Placed in the hands of an evil and malevolent individual, guns are capable of
being used to commit acts of violence. Then again, placed in the hands of a
malevolent individual, fertilizer and kerosene can be used to commit acts of
violence. Placed in the hands of a malevolent individual, castor beans can be
used to commit acts of violence. Placed in the hands of a malevolent
individual a motor vehicle has proven to be able to be used in lethal acts of
violence.

The common thread? The malevolent individual. Perhaps we should concentrate
more on the acts and the intent more than the tools that are used...

Regards...

.... Wherever you go, there you are!
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-=> Gamgee wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

DW> I really don't understand how someone like me can explain that to
DW> someone who seems to be able to follow logic and seems to be
DW> resonably intelligent, yet they won't understand it. IMHO, some
DW> of them just think that guns are scary and we are better off with
DW> less of them, but the "criminals don't obey laws" logic should be
DW> equally as scary.

Ga> Yes, it should be just as scary. What I honestly think is that those
Ga> who think more gun laws will fix the problem is that they actually are
Ga> NOT interested in fixing the real problem. What they are interested
Ga> in doing is increasing the amount of control that they can have over
Ga> another group of people. It's really very petty and selfish, but
Ga> that's the actual truth.

Those who the true power behind the push for gun control laws desire one
outcome. They are seeking to disarm the American populace so that they may
increase their power and influence over the general population. The Second
Amendment is the protector of the entire Bill of Rights. Those who would
impose severe gun restrictions upon us are the ones who desire to impose
further limits upon our constitutional rights.

Regards....

.... What is mind? No matter! What is matter? Never mind! - Homer S.
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