Ken Blake wrote:
> On 9/5/2021 7:15 PM, Paul wrote:
>> Carey's Fan wrote:
>>> On 06/09/2021 01:05, Ken Blake wrote:
>>>> 1. The computer sees the DVD drive, but I can't set it as a choice
>>>> to boot from in the BIOS.
>>>
>>>
>>> Did you see page 57 of the manual?
>>>
>>> <https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/13MANUAL/PRIME_PRO_TUF_GAMING_Intel_500_Series_BIOS_EM_WEB_EN.pdf>
>>>
>>>
>>> F8 Function key allows you to choose the boot option on the fly but
>>> you want is hard wired so you need to set the priorities in the BIOS.
>>> Please read page 57 and see if it makes sense. You need to select the
>>> drop-down items in Set Up. The picture is on page 55 and this item is
>>> the last item. Currently it is EZMode (Easy Mode) but when you click
>>> the drop-down button it will give you the options for DVD drive if it
>>> can find it.
>>>
>>> How much did you pay to build this machine? I mean the labor cost of
>>> the technician or did he just do it for free? You could have asked
>>> Carey Holzman <https://www.youtube.com/c/CareyHolzman/videos> to
>>> build it for you and he would have done it for you in 48 hours and
>>> also give you a video of how he has done all this. He charges for the
>>> service as he is running a business.
>>
>> Ken has an able assistant willing to help out.
>> And that's who built up the computer. This is not
>> a shop-build.
>
>
>
>
> Yes, a friend. He did a agreat shop of buikding it. It took way less
> than 48 hours and it cost nothing,
>
>
>> *******
>>
>> The 4.23MB generic BIOS manual is here.
>>
>> https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1200/TUF_GAMING_Z590-PLUS_WIFI/E18030_TUF_GAMING_Z590-PLUS_WIFI_UM_v2_web.pdf
>>
>>
>> But it doesn't explain something. For that, we go here.
>>
>> https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?96196-I-need-advice-on-CSM-and-Secure-Boot-settings
>>
>>
>> "No devices in boot list: SOLVED!
>>
>> I figured out why in the pre-Windows installation environment and
>> with CSM disabled that I could not see any of my storage devices
>> in the "Boot Option Priorities" or "Boot Override" lists.
>>
>> Back in the old days of Legacy BIOS booting, all storage devices
>> showed up in boot lists where you could arrange their priorities
>> and select one to boot from. Now with UEFI BIOS, only UEFI-bootable
>> devices show up in those lists, unless you have enabled CSM.
>> Disabling CSM is for UEFI-only booting, and the only devices that
>> show up in boot lists are devices that contain
>> \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi
>> in the root directory. That is the UEFI "boot loader". If I had
>> installed Windows on the Samsung 960 Pro then \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi
>> would appear in the EFI ("System") partition of the drive, and the
>> boot list would show "windows Boot Manager" or "UEFI: Samsung
>> 960 Pro"
>> or something like that.
>>
>> The DVD drives did not show up in the boot lists with CSM disabled
>> because they did not contain any disks. If I insert the
>> Acronis/WinPE
>> rescue disk before booting into BIOS, then the DVD drive shows
>> up as
>> "UEFI: Pioneer BD-RW BDR-209M" because that disk contains the
>> directory \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi. Same for a Windows 10 Recovery
>> thumb
>> drive I made for a different computer, for booting into the WinRE
>> environment. It shows up in the boot device list as
>> "UEFI: SanDisk Ultra USB 3.0 Flash Drive” because it too contains
>> \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi as I’ve verified.
>>
>> So with CSM disabled, the ASUS UEFI Bios will examine all HD, SSD,
>> USB ports, and DVD drives, looking for UEFI bootable devices that
>> contain \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi.
>
>
> Thanks very much. CSM is disabled, but we couldn't find a way to enable
> it. Can you tell me how to do it?
>
>
> So apparently the problem is that since CSM is disabled, the DVD in the
> drive must not contain \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi, and that's why it's not a
> choice for boot order.
>
> Perhaps I created the DVD incorrectly. Unless you can tell me how to
> enable CSM, can you tell me to do it properly on my old computer, so it
> can have \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi and boot and restore the system image
> that is on the external USB drivve?
>
>
>
>> In contrast, if CSM is enabled then all devices show up whether or
>> not they contain \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi.
>
>
> Even if the drive has no DVD in it? That sounds like it's the way it
> should be. Is there any disadvantage to having CSM enabled and keeping
> it that way, assuming that I can find a way to do it?
>
>
>
>> With CSM enabled you will then see two versions for example
>> "P3: Pioneer BD-RW BDR-209M" and "UEFI: Pioneer BD-RW BDR-209M",
>> giving you a choice of booting to the device with a Legacy BIOS
>> boot
>> or a UEFI boot. The Legacy boot will not use the
>> \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi
>> boot application, but will instead use the application named
>> bootmgr.
>>
>> So I can in fact leave CSM disabled and install Windows, and if
>> I ever
>> need to boot from an Acronis rescue disk or a Windows Recovery
>> thumb
>> drive, I can either press "F2" or "DEL" and boot into bios and
>> select
>> the device from the "Boot Override" list, or spam the "F8" key
>> during
>> boot after the ROG logo appears, to bring up the
>> "Please Select Boot Device” menu which will list all devices
>> containing
>> \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi.
>>
>> If I ever need to boot from a non-UEFI compliant device that
>> does not
>> contain \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi then I'd have to enable CSM first if
>> possible (and probably have to disable Secure Boot). That is my
>> understanding.
>>
>> CSM IS ENABLED BY DEFAULT, so people who want a pure UEFI boot
>> system
>> will want to disable CSM before installing the OS.
>> "
>
> But it wasn't enabled by default, unless it somehow got turned off
> without our realizing that it did or knowing why it happened.
>
> Do I need a pure UEFI boot system for Windows 11?

Well, it's a new system, with a pretty cranky looking UEFI design :-)
It will require the usual experiments.

The Secure Boot setting might well be the one causing the most problem.
It looks like that setting will be causing grief for mixed mode booting
purposes.

Chapter 9.1 has Compatibility Support Module as its topic.
It looks like classes of storage devices can be assigned
a policy.

Launch CSM [Enabled] # or the other settings won't work

Boot Device Control [UEFI and Legacy OPROM]

Boot from Network Devices [Ignore] # for stuff like PXE perhaps

Boot from Storage Devices [Legacy Only] # best of a bad situation

Boot from PCI-E/PCI expansion [UEFI Only] # Boot Win11 from NVMe sled

*******

This is really not a very good situation at all,
because booting the DVD in Legacy Mode, won't
allow a UEFI install to be done. The DVD would
have to be booted in UEFI mode. If we set the
Storage Devices (SATA) to Legacy, then some older
OSes might happen to be booted that way, but not
all.

Microsoft DVDs prepared by MediaCreationTool, will be
hybrid, and can be booted in either mode. However,
the "stated policies" of Windows 11, mean that Microsoft
no longer has a need to make hybrid media. They could
easily just do UEFI media. Which then forces you to
set "Boot from Storage Devices" to [UEFI Only], and
that pretty well dooms the machine to never using
CSM at all.

Having these selections is pure silly crap. The
older approach scanned all devices, put them in the
menu for better or worse. But at least the previous
mechanism meant very few trips to the UEFI screen
to change stuff.

It's obvious this is intended to have the user
just switch this shit off entirely and have a
"pure as the driven snow, useless boot choice" situation.
Like imagine I wanted to dual boot Linux on this
bucket of bolts - this interface would drive me nuts.
I would be in there constantly, hammering stuff.

Microsoft themselves could not have dreamed up a
more dreary set of choices. Think how many meetings
they sat in "to check we're screwing the users enough".

This might also be the reason the BIOS section was
put in a separate PDF, so it would take more effort
to discover the facts.

If you wanted to avoid "UEFI and Secure Boot" entirely,
maybe that's what the choices are for ? But then, once
Windows 11 comes along, you'll be put through the
wringer by these dreary settings.

Paul